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Mass. ballot initiatives this year - medical MJ and assisted suicide


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#51 KrisNYG

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 07:35 PM

I believe that it goes on much more often than we're aware, and that either of the risks you speak of are slim ones. JMO.


Alright, I'll bite...

So, what's the difference? You seem to be okay with one method and fiercely against the other. In both cases the "patient" is the one that decides. Yet only in one case is the burden of aiding in the act lifted from a loved one and placed in the hands of a professional.

#52 KrisNYG

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 07:35 PM

Not even if Ratdog is the Hospice house band?


:rolling:

#53 Java Time

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 07:38 PM

Not even if Ratdog is the Hospice house band?




CRAP!!! now I'll have to rethink my stance :undecided:


:funny1:

#54 Tim the Beek

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 07:52 PM

Alright, I'll bite...

So, what's the difference? You seem to be okay with one method and fiercely against the other. In both cases the "patient" is the one that decides. Yet only in one case is the burden of aiding in the act lifted from a loved one and placed in the hands of a professional.


Guess mainly it comes down to a concern that when outside, unbiased parties get involved, there's a risk of pressure on patients to decide to end their lives. Much less a risk of that when family is involved.

Guess it depends, too, on what the leval of assistance will be...

#55 KrisNYG

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 08:29 PM

Guess mainly it comes down to a concern that when outside, unbiased parties get involved, there's a risk of pressure on patients to decide to end their lives. Much less a risk of that when family is involved.

Guess it depends, too, on what the leval of assistance will be...


Remember, this is not mandatory. I've already had this conversation with people that could be directly affected of something were to happen to me, everyone should, imo. Hell, I had a living will drawn up in my mid twenties when I bought my first house, I was already at the lawyer's so I figured, what the hell! :lol:

I look at it this way, with an option like this in place I am taking full control of the situation while I am of sound mind (stop laughing :lol: ) to do so. I'd rather do that than ask someone else to make the call for me, legally or otherwise. Actually, I do not think I could be capable of asking someone I cared deeply for to participate in my untimely "check out". That's a heavy thing to carry around.

#56 Tim the Beek

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 08:35 PM

Remember, this is not mandatory. I've already had this conversation with people that could be directly affected of something were to happen to me, everyone should, imo. Hell, I had a living will drawn up in my mid twenties when I bought my first house, I was already at the lawyer's so I figured, what the hell! :lol:

I look at it this way, with an option like this in place I am taking full control of the situation while I am of sound mind (stop laughing :lol: ) to do so. I'd rather do that than ask someone else to make the call for me, legally or otherwise. Actually, I do not think I could be capable of asking someone I cared deeply for to participate in my untimely "check out". That's a heavy thing to carry around.


I smell ya', K. :funny1:

Have more ponderin' to do, I reckon.

#57 JBetty

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 08:39 PM

Guess mainly it comes down to a concern that when outside, unbiased parties get involved, there's a risk of pressure on patients to decide to end their lives. Much less a risk of that when family is involved.

Guess it depends, too, on what the leval of assistance will be...



...and what kind of family you have.

#58 chefjeff

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 09:08 PM

To Tell you the truth I am having a hard time on MJ vote. As a grower in past as I see it the law still states that if if you grow within the household the Federal laws come into place and they can take your home and they have in in CA. Same with if you are growing within a rented space. I assume the property management will include in rental agreement that such issues will not incure. I know am
I am going to vote yes but as a property owner I might have a second guess. All I can say is there is lots of folks that cannot handle prescription pills ( they make me sick) and MJ helps ease my nausia. Just my 2C

#59 lilphlower

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 09:18 PM

To Tell you the truth I am having a hard time on MJ vote. As a grower in past as I see it the law still states that if if you grow within the household the Federal laws come into place and they can take your home and they have in in CA. Same with if you are growing within a rented space. I assume the property management will include in rental agreement that such issues will not incure. I know am
I am going to vote yes but as a property owner I might have a second guess. All I can say is there is lots of folks that cannot handle prescription pills ( they make me sick) and MJ helps ease my nausia. Just my 2C


it really depends on what state you are in and what the voters, and then the representatives, are voting for and saying. in colorado, for ex, there is an overwhelming majority of voters favoring the pro-pot laws and whatnot. the representatives of the state then favor the pro-pot laws and regulations based on the votes of their constituants. when it comes down to it, the feds arent going to touch it, cuz judges arent going to prosecute, and so on and so forth. in california, for example, it is NOT an overwhelming majority, so there are still representatives and judges who are against pot and that is when the feds do come in and f*ck w/ the people following state regulations.

#60 lilphlower

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 09:19 PM

http://www.cbsnews.c...h/?id=50133577n

#61 Jabadoodle

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 09:56 PM

i didn't say laws give doctors the power to do anything...you are pulling parts of sentences out of context :coffee:

but I will try and respond anyway...

hmmmmm yes....but if a patient is not conscious and that patient, as well as their family members aren't doctors, who's to say the Doctor isn't chomping at the bit for that's patient's liver cuz he's got a black market organ donor gig...and feeds the family a cock n bull story on how the patient is a gonner.


Wasn't trying to manipulate what you said. Your sentence "IMO that's too much power given to them already...Sorry folks saw the movie COMA as a child...can't have Doctor's given that power" read to me like you were concerned that this law would give doctors more power. But that's not what you meant, so okay.

Under this law the doctor would NOT be allowed to give a life-ending medication unless the patient had agreed. Doesn't matter if the family is sold a story, doctor and family would still be up for murder if they did this without the patient's consent -- just as they are without this law. Of course, the doctor and/or family could do it anyway -- but they can do that with or without this law. With or without this law, that's murder.

#62 Jabadoodle

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 10:00 PM

Two things we know for sure:
* With this law someone COULD (and probably eventually will be)put to death that didn't want to be.
* Without this law the rights of people to decide for themselves IS being taken by the government.

There is no perfect solution in this case, only a choice between two imperfect ones.

#63 Jwheelz

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 10:16 PM

the medical MJ thing is a no-brainer IMO but the whole concept of assisted suicide makes me very uneasy... in fact the concept of suicide to end an illness, as someone with a substantial chronic illness makes me very uneasy as well. I understand others don't feel this way, but for me whether it's legal or not it's a choice I would explicitly deny ever making. I wouldn't even consider it as an option no matter how bad things got medically, but that's just me.

Thankfully I didn't have to vote on anything so serious today. The only ballot questions I had to answer were municipal charter revisions. They want to increase the number of selectmen on the board of selectmen, increase the quorum requirements for that board, create a town manager position, and a bunch of other stuff...

#64 Java Time

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 11:38 PM

Wasn't trying to manipulate what you said. Your sentence "IMO that's too much power given to them already...Sorry folks saw the movie COMA as a child...can't have Doctor's given that power" read to me like you were concerned that this law would give doctors more power. But that's not what you meant, so okay.

Under this law the doctor would NOT be allowed to give a life-ending medication unless the patient had agreed. Doesn't matter if the family is sold a story, doctor and family would still be up for murder if they did this without the patient's consent -- just as they are without this law. Of course, the doctor and/or family could do it anyway -- but they can do that with or without this law. With or without this law, that's murder.


I didn't mean to sound accusing...shoulda put in a smiley or a winky in that post I quoted you...no worries :smile:

#65 Java Time

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 11:40 PM

the medical MJ thing is a no-brainer IMO but the whole concept of assisted suicide makes me very uneasy... in fact the concept of suicide to end an illness, as someone with a substantial chronic illness makes me very uneasy as well. I understand others don't feel this way, but for me whether it's legal or not it's a choice I would explicitly deny ever making. I wouldn't even consider it as an option no matter how bad things got medically, but that's just me.


And that's just fucklin Bad Ass brother!!! :Phishfolk:

#66 Jabadoodle

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 12:25 AM

I didn't mean to sound accusing...shoulda put in a smiley or a winky in that post I quoted you...no worries :smile:


...no worries :smile:


And that's just fucklin Bad Ass brother!!!

:Phishfolk:


Totally agree.

#67 deadheadskier

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 01:50 AM

Question 2 is a tough one.

It's so emotionally charged and sometimes emotion trumps rational thought in life. Anyone who has an opinion on the subject probably has been witness to a loved one that suffered far too long before traveling on. There maybe others whose opinion is based off their own near death experience where they no longer had the will to go on themselves.

Two things that I think are of utmost importance to define are:

1. I have not read the bill in depth, but first and foremost I'd want to know the specifics as to who would be qualified to receive the prescription. There are people who a terminally ill who live for a very long time. Certain cancers are a death sentence for everyone who gets the diagnosis, but depending on their own body chemistry and the quality of care they receive their length of survival can vary drastically. Look at Steve Jobs. Diagnosed with Pancreatic Cancer in 2004 and lived until 2011. I've had a friend get taken down from Pancreatic Cancer in six months. Then you get into even more grey area diagnoses such Diabetes. What about severe depression? What if the severe depression is because of Diabetes?

2. I don't particularly care for the idea of someone being able to receive the prescription from a doctor and go home and say good bye on their own or with family, whatever the case maybe. From a basic safety standpoint, I think a drug that is that lethal should only be available via direct oversight of a licensed medical professional. Doesn't need to be a doctor on a house call, but at least a nurse. Someone who has training, a license and a career on the line should those drugs be mishandled and end up in the wrong hands.

Back to the topic of emotion. I spent a little time in the Hospice ward at the hospital today. Had I walked out direct to the voting booth, I would've voted yes without even thinking about it. I bet most of those folks just want their journey in this life to end and pass on peacefully.

Then I think of my Grandpa. He died of Diabetes. He spent literally the last five years of his life having his lower extremities being hacked away as the disease progressed all the while losing his vision and hearing. Now, when he lost his first leg, he was in the nursing home a long, long time; depressed as hell, totally irrationally like talking divorce with my grandmother. I'm sure there would've been a point during that time where if he could end it all, he may have. Then he rehabbed, got well and came home. I can remember that Christmas with his new leg. If somebody needed something, he was the first out of the chair to go get it, so excited to be mobile and surrounded by family. Had he ended it when he was suffering through rehab, there's no question he would have regretted it given the further joy he got to experience in life; especially the marriage of his son.

He had another year and half or so of relative good health and happiness, then returned to the hospital to have his other leg taken. Same thing, battles with massive depression just like before, but now worse because he was faced with having no legs. He pulled through, actually was able to get around on two prosthetic legs for a short time and then a wheel chair. He eventually went back to the nursing home where he remained for good for about a year where the whole family prayed he passed on. He could have avoided about 9 months worth of suffering with assisted suicide. It was incredibly sad watching him waste away the last half year or so.

If the program would only be for people like my Grandpa in his final 9 months, then I guess I could go for it, but it's so vague to determine that finality.

I really don't know how I'd vote on Mass Question 2. If I were a resident, I'd want to vote Yes, but only if it meant not ending life too soon. I guess that's the crux of the matter. You don't want people to suffer and wait too long to die, but you also don't want people to die too soon.

#68 Jwheelz

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 02:10 AM

And that's just fucklin Bad Ass brother!!! :Phishfolk:


I might add that this isn't likely something I wouldn't get to a point to consider in the first place... I don't have that kind of condition really

#69 tyedyedee

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 02:41 AM

last time i was near a tv it looked good for the MJ question :clapping:
realllly close on the assisted suicide :dunno:

#70 Jwheelz

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 02:47 AM

last time i was near a tv it looked good for the MJ question :clapping:


13% of precincts reporting: 62.4% yes 37.6% no

Per Huffington Post real-time updates
http://elections.huf...setts#questions

#71 TheDHJ

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 02:50 AM

Wow...go Elizabeth Warren.

#72 PieDoh

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 03:43 AM

something wrong about both.

no too sure I'd vote for only sick people to smoke .. seems like sick folks should be denied smoking...

And whats right about killing??

#73 Java Time

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 04:08 AM

I might add that this isn't likely something I wouldn't get to a point to consider in the first place... I don't have that kind of condition really


message is still badass!!!

YOU'RE NOT WEASELING OUT OF BEING BADASS MISTER!!! :joker:




badass!
:wink:

#74 Jabadoodle

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 10:26 AM

I see that MJ was legalized (at a state level) in Washington and Colorado but not Oregon. Hmm...

#75 tyedyedee

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 12:42 PM

MJ is IN :dance:
assisted suicide, when i passed out, was literally at 50% even, but turns out it was defeated by 2%
i am OK with that as i was for the idea but leery of the implementation...hope they can tighten up the controls and room for error and reintroduce it
first woman senator in MA ever! :clapping: (now lets see if she follows through with her promises!)

#76 JBetty

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 02:03 PM

...first woman senator in MA ever! :clapping:



Thankfully, CT did not follow suit. HALLELUJAH!!!