188 replies to this topic

[TakeAStepBack]

Why would anyone be butthurt over the next four years being better than the last. Shit, that hasn't happened in decades.

Is that when it is time for the administration to take responsibility? On the 'potential' upswing? Interesting.

If Obama wins in November and Bush is still incurring the blame in 2013 adn beyond, will anyone admit that it's about time for Obama to take some responsibility for his shortcomings and failures? Or what?

[capt_morgan]

how bout giving him credit for what he does right? instead of dismissing it as a political move or a distraction from other issues. cant have it both ways.
i have no problem acknowledging his failures...and in 4 years if things arent any better i will certainly do so. but obama is our prez NOW. and im gonna support him till its time to stop.

[capt_morgan]

but im still not voting for him again

[JBetty]

We're still suffering from voodoo economics and the trickle down theory.
It's all Reagan's fault.

[capt_morgan]

reagan was even further left than obama...and he is like jesus christ to the GOP

[TakeAStepBack]

how bout giving him credit for what he does right? instead of dismissing it as a political move or a distraction from other issues. cant have it both ways. i have no problem acknowledging his failures...and in 4 years if things arent any better i will certainly do so. but obama is our prez NOW. and im gonna support him till its time to stop.

Did you hold that same supportive mentality when Bush was president?
I'd give Obama credit, but I can't find anything to give him credit for among the issue I see as the most important. He broke every promise I wanted his adminstration to fulfill.

What should I give him credit for?

[capt_morgan]

Did you hold that same supportive mentality when Bush was president? I'd give Obama credit, but I can't find anything to give him credit for among the issue I see as the most important. He broke every promise I wanted his adminstration to fulfill. What should I give him credit for?

i didnt vote for bush...i voted gore...and then kerry. i also didnt discuss politics at that time...wasnt interested. so no, i did not.

[capt_morgan]

but if you want to stay in this temporal dislocated mindset here feel free.

[TakeAStepBack]

Temporal dislocated mindset?

That's fine.

i didnt vote for bush...i voted gore...and then kerry. i also didnt discuss politics at that time...wasnt interested. so no, i did not.

that's fine. i didn't vote for Obama. So I guess im not obligated to support him in failing to achieve promises.

[capt_morgan]

you said you did vote for obama



ok...i have no idea what ur on about with that last post.
ur the one bringing up bush...i just told you i wasnt even involved with it back then. but thats fine...keep trying to paint me in that corner if it makes you feel good

[TakeAStepBack]

No, i never said i voted Obama. NY voted Obama for me though. I voted paul in 2008.

[capt_morgan]

No, i never said i voted Obama. NY voted Obama for me though. I voted paul in 2008.

then i was mistaken...i still dont get the point though. if you would give some examples instead of just generally hating on the guy i prefer to takes issues on a case by case basis. but i understand...obamas a socialist. and so is anyone who supports social programs. so there is absolutely no point in us even discussing it. your mind is made up.

[TEO]

Whether I agree with his policies or not, I think he should have had the balls to jam his agenda (campaign platform/promises) down our throats in the first 4 years rather than banking on being elected for a second term to give it a go. Absolutely no excuse for a politician on the Presidential level to think compromise will get anywhere in the past number of years.

[capt_morgan]

Whether I agree with his policies or not, I think he should have had the balls to jam his agenda (campaign platform/promises) down our throats in the first 4 years rather than banking on being elected for a second term to give it a go. Absolutely no excuse for a politician on the Presidential level to think compromise will get anywhere in the past number of years.

congress has a LOT to do with at least some of his broken promises...just sayin

[TEO]

Bush didn't seem to let Congress stand in his way...just sayin

[PeaceFrog]

that's one of the main reasons why I thought Bush was such an asshole.

I like a President that respects Congress, even if I disagree with the outcome.

Republicans today filibuster anything they disagree with on the Senate floor.

[capt_morgan]

Bush didn't seem to let Congress stand in his way...just sayin

9/11'd noone wanted to rock the boat at that time.

[TakeAStepBack]

then i was mistaken...i still dont get the point though. if you would give some examples instead of just generally hating on the guy i prefer to takes issues on a case by case basis. but i understand...obamas a socialist. and so is anyone who supports social programs. so there is absolutely no point in us even discussing it. your mind is made up.

i have given examples. many of them. I'll give you a small list here agin though.

Promise:

Reduce the deficit in half by the end of first term, or a self proclaimed one term president.

Outcome:

increased the deficit to record levels. Never passed a budget. Now running for term two.

Promise:

To end the Iraq war first thing elected.

Outcome:

Ended the Iraq war, after trying to come to an agreement with Iraqi Govt. to keep troops passed the bush deadline, on the Bush deadline.

Promise: Close GITMO

Outcome: Did not close gitmo.

Promise:

Protect govt. whistleblowers QUOTE: Candidate Obama said "Government whistleblowers are part of a healthy democracy and must be protected from reprisal.", bring transparency referendums on bills to the public.QUOTE: “not sign any non-emergency bill without giving the American public an opportunity to review and comment on the White House Web site for five days.”

Outcome: Left Manning in military detention for over a year without trial. Clamped down on several other whistleblowers. No referendum on bills for the public. Including the first one passed. The Lilly Ledbetter Fair Pay Act.

Promise: Not to use signing statements to thwart portions of laws passed he didn't like.

Outcome: Has used signing statements to not adhere to portions of laws passed, instead of vetoing them and sending them back to the floor.

I'll hold saying promise and say talking point on this one: Obama: The President does not have power under the Constitution to unilaterally authorize a military attack in a situation that does not involve stopping an actual or imminent threat to the nation.

Outcome: Used unilateral, unauthorized use of military force in Libya.


There's a starter list.

[PeaceFrog]

What are your candidate's list of accomplishments?

[TakeAStepBack]

This isn't about "my" candidate. Why don't you try staying on topic for a change?

I'll make another list later.

[PeaceFrog]

also, your candidate promises to cut all spending on social programs.

Why does he promise something that he can't guarantee? Do you really think he'd be capable of doing that all on his own as Prez?

I think he's lying.

[PeaceFrog]

you don't like it because when you try to paint me into a corner, I escape through a trap door.

[TakeAStepBack]

Can't stay on topic, heh? Your only backstop to the TRUTH about Obama is to attack Ron Paul. Fuckin' pathetic.

[TakeAStepBack]

it's more like you cant defend your candidate, so you have to deflect and try and change the subject. You're not smart, your just a weasel.

[PeaceFrog]

fair is fair. If you're going to discredit all of Obama's accomplishments by bringing up his failures, then I'd like to see the list of your candidate's accomplishments to compare.

This thread is about who you're voting for. This is not the trash the other candidate thread. I asked a simple question: What are your candidates accomplishments? You should have an answer all lined up for me, but you don't.

And there you are still trying to paint me into a corner by saying Obama is "my candidate."

Your schtick is getting old.

[TakeAStepBack]

I havent seen a single Obama accomplishment in this thread. Not one. You certainly have not put one down. So you're making things up to try and change the subject. Why don't you put donw Obama's accomplishments. The ones he promised and the ones that help the entire nation, instead of a voting block? If my shtick is old, bugger off and stop humping my leg, derp. You cant defend Obama. Plain and simple.

[capt_morgan]

i have given examples. many of them. I'll give you a small list here agin though.
Promise: Reduce the deficit in half by the end of first term, or a self proclaimed one term president.
Outcome: increased the deficit to record levels. Never passed a budget. Now running for term two.

seriously? every president says that...it rarely happens...and anyone who believed he wouldnt run for a second term because of it is a sucker.

Promise: To end the Iraq war first thing elected.
Outcome: Ended the Iraq war, after trying to come to an agreement with Iraqi Govt. to keep troops passed the bush deadline, on the Bush deadline.

irrelevant...the war is indeed over. lets judge him for what he ultimately did...not what he didnt do

Promise: Close GITMO
Outcome: Did not close gitmo.

nope he did not....

Promise: Protect govt. whistleblowers QUOTE: Candidate Obama said "Government whistleblowers are part of a healthy democracy and must be protected from reprisal.", bring transparency referendums on bills to the public.QUOTE: “not sign any non-emergency bill without giving the American public an opportunity to review and comment on the White House Web site for five days.”
Outcome: Left Manning in military detention for over a year without trial. Clamped down on several other whistleblowers. No referendum on bills for the public. Including the first one passed. The Lilly Ledbetter Fair Pay Act.

a nice talking point but again...did you really believe that? obviously not since you didnt vote for him anyway

Promise: Not to use signing statements to thwart portions of laws passed he didn't like.
Outcome: Has used signing statements to not adhere to portions of laws passed, instead of vetoing them and sending them back to the floor.

sorry for not filibustering?

I'll hold saying promise and say talking point on this one: Obama: The President does not have power under the Constitution to unilaterally authorize a military attack in a situation that does not involve stopping an actual or imminent threat to the nation.
Outcome: Used unilateral, unauthorized use of military force in Libya. There's a starter list.

its called nato

[TEO]

Blah, blah, blah...damn this is still old.

(not referring to the capt)

[TEO]

Wait a minute the President doesn't do the filibustering.

[capt_morgan]

i think every politician can be knit picked in much the same way

[TakeAStepBack]

So lies are ok, NATO runs our country and Im a doofus for thinking someone would hold their word?




It seems then it's all superficial. Why not vote for anyone who can make the most outlandish and grand promises? Afterall, you really didn't think he would keep them, did you?

[TEO]

This raises another question, should we really as a nation buy part and parcel into NATO?

[PeaceFrog]

it's more like you cant defend your candidate, so you have to deflect and try and change the subject. You're not smart, your just a weasel.

it's not that I couldn't defend Obama if I wanted to. I have no interest in defending him.

And, who is trolling now?

For the sake of the rest of the board, I'm done talking with you.

[TakeAStepBack]

No accountability at all.


Anyway, im bored of the spin. When it was Bush the clamoring over how awful he was, how he lied, etc...was louder than love in here. Now, the same policies and procedures are used from a democrat and crickets.


I give up. This is absolutely pointless.

[TakeAStepBack]

Thanks god, derp. Glad you got the message.

[TEO]

Definitely pointless in the short term, however one can hope there are seeds planted that may have long term impact.

[capt_morgan]

No accountability at all. Anyway, im bored of the spin. When it was Bush the clamoring over how awful he was, how he lied, etc...was louder than love in here. Now, the same policies and procedures are used from a democrat and crickets. I give up. This is absolutely pointless.

keep using that brush...it matches the corner well.

[PeaceFrog]

Well, not just for the sake of everyone else.

I don't want to feel responsible when you have a mental breakdown.

[capt_morgan]

so much for a reasonable discussion...more proof that some people cannot stand other peoples views and opinions

[Joker]

seriously? every president says that...it rarely happens...and anyone who believed he wouldnt run for a second term because of it is a sucker.

So your defense of his lying is that others do it too and anyone that believed him his a sucker?

irrelevant...the war is indeed over. lets judge him for what he ultimately did...not what he didnt do

It's hardly irrelevant. He was trying to stay there. He knowingly tried to break this promise and would have done so if he could have.

a nice talking point but again...did you really believe that? obviously not since you didnt vote for him anyway

So why should we believe anything he says?

[PeaceFrog]

Definitely pointless in the short term, however one can hope there are seeds planted that may have long term impact.

and don't over-water

[capt_morgan]

So your defense of his lying is that others do it too and anyone that believed him his a sucker? It's hardly irrelevant. He was trying to stay there. He knowingly tried to break this promise and would have done so if he could have. So why should we believe anything he says?

1) yes i do...sorry for being jaded or conditioned to it.

2)but he didnt....

3)im not saying what you should believe...its you guys trying to tell us what to believe

[capt_morgan]

i will case by case the shit outta this thread...sometimes i will support...sometimes i wont.

deal with it.

[TakeAStepBack]

so much for a reasonable discussion...more proof that some people cannot stand other peoples views and opinions

I can stand other opinions just fine. but if we're going to circumvent promises broken from teh president with things like "you're a sucker for believing that/ it's irrelelvant he didn't keep his promise" and the like. i simply have no response. There is no where to go from there.

[PeaceFrog]

I've been respectful of other people's opinions.

I don't feel that questioning the logic and consistency of those opinions is desrespectful.

[TEO]

I can stand other opinions just fine. but if we're going to circumvent promises broken from teh president with things like "you're a sucker for believing that/ it's irrelelvant he didn't keep his promise" and the like. i simply have no response. There is no where to go from there.

All we have to do is look at the state of the Union and we can see where we have gone from there thus far.

[capt_morgan]

I can stand other opinions just fine. but if we're going to circumvent promises broken from teh president with things like "you're a sucker for believing that/ it's irrelelvant he didn't keep his promise" and the like. i simply have no response. There is no where to go from there.

where do you want to go??? if you dont like my answers then dont ask me the questions.

[Joker]

The only thing I'm trying to get people to believe is the truth. I'm not the one making excuses for the lies we've been fed

[capt_morgan]

sure...hes lied...so have most of our presidents. why is it only a problem for you now?
im not sitting here calling obama the second coming or anything...i guess i dont get your purpose here. i still think he is the best man for the job given our choices...why am i not voting for him? cause i cant bring myself to do it.

[PeaceFrog]

Obama is like that first pair of shoes that you try on at the mall and then decide to keep looking. Then, after looking through 5 other stores you decide that you really like the first pair best so you go back and buy them.