41 replies to this topic

[Lazy Lightning]

Excellent diagram... Shame on the Southeast.

http://www.guardian....ates?CMP=twt_gu

[GoPlastic]

someone ought to make an "avg. level of education attained" chart to hold up against that gay rights map, and an "identification by religion" map to hold up against that one. we'd see some trends, most of which i don't need to point out.

that's embarassing, to be honest. these people are not my countrywo/men...it's a different world out there.

[gregoir]

Yup people wonder why I don't just move to the South where I can get a job Soon some Southerner will enter the thread and try to say the South is more progressive then you think.

[PieDoh]

Did they include the states of confusion and disarray?

[lostchord]

I couldn't find a map of education levels to compare, but this will give you an idea:

http://www.census.go...les/12s0233.pdf

[TakeAStepBack]

The south is more progressive than you think.

[gregoir]

The south is more progressive than you think.

Looking forward to when JnJn gets home and kicks you in the nuts.

[TakeAStepBack]

I was just playing along. I certainly don't believe they are politically.

[gregoir]

I was just playing along. I certainly don't believe they are politically.

I was just kidding now you can put the cup away.

[TakeAStepBack]

But it makes everything appear larger down there.....

[Lazy Lightning]

You guys...

[Lazy Lightning]

I couldn't find a map of education levels to compare, but this will give you an idea: http://www.census.go...les/12s0233.pdf

Nice find, LostChord!

[Eco]

If anyone is interesting in the movement to give the gay community equal rights check out a Pride Event, most major cities have them. While I'm not gay...I'm a male lesbian....I go to the RI event to take pictures that I donate=no money---just a fun day with great people just wanting the right to love and marry who they want.

[gregoir]

As a man that enjoys the company of men. I don't think dancing around in gold underwear is going to change the world.

[gregoir]

IT is good people watching though

[Tim the Beek]

Dancing around in orange underwear prolly would though. Prolly.

[gregoir]

Dancing around in orange underwear prolly would though. Prolly.

obviously

[Eco]

As a man that enjoys the company of men. I don't think dancing around in gold underwear is going to change the world.

Going try to give you a hard time....

Self expression and that freedom are our rights...the people in my slide show are expressing those freedoms. Assuming by what I quoted you are gay, do you feel that you are unable to express your love for men publicly? Some people have the balls to let their hair down and do whatever the fuc pleases them while not intruding on the rights of others...join in....it's fun.

Gold underwear WILL change the world as some might view it and have the balls to wear their own gold/purple/pink/whatever underwear to express who they are and what they stand for.....see you at vibes with your gold underwear----I'll post a pic :-)

[gregoir]

Going try to give you a hard time.... Self expression and that freedom are our rights...the people in my slide show are expressing those freedoms. Assuming by what I quoted you are gay, do you feel that you are unable to express your love for men publicly? Some people have the balls to let their hair down and do whatever the fuc pleases them while not intruding on the rights of others...join in....it's fun. Gold underwear WILL change the world as some might view it and have the balls to wear their own gold/purple/pink/whatever underwear to express who they are and what they stand for.....see you at vibes with your gold underwear----I'll post a pic :-)

I like to sleep with men I am out and people know it. gold underwear or rainbow flags has nothing to do with it. It's fun for some people but it is not the way to lead a political of social movement. just my opinion. I have no problem with pride days and events but seeing them as some sort of political movement is just silly. stereotypes usually help to confirm people's beliefs not change them.

[Eco]

Gregoir, come to the RI one coming up and I'll bet your opinion will change. The GLBT community talks and politicians show up with support....flags flying over the state house soon...maybe.

It's one of those you don't know until you go

So go....prove me wrong and I'll buy you a gold thong....sorry it rhymed...I'm not buying you clothes.

[Deadshow Dan]

Time for PA, Maine, and Delaware to step and join the rest of the Northeast

That chart makes Pennsyltucky apt

[gregoir]

thank for the invite. I've been to many pride events including Mardis Gras in Sydney. Not on the schedule this summer. moving and the few fests I am doing are the priority.

[Eco]

No gold thong for you then!

[Depends]

You can still marry your first cousin in NC, as long as the cousin is a different sex....

[foo]

Yup people wonder why I don't just move to the South where I can get a job Soon some Southerner will enter the thread and try to say the South is more progressive then you think.

this for me?

[Smiles]

http://www.mendeley....ity-gay-rights/
"...results suggest that there is a relationship between level of education and attitudes toward gay rights. Individuals with the highest level of education (graduate degree) were signiflcantly (26%) more tolerant in their attitudes toward gay rights than those with the lowest level of education (less than high school)..."

http://www.sciencedi...049089X05000116
"We find that the relation of education and attitudes is not a spurious one. Rather, the liberalizing effect of education on attitudes toward homosexual relations is due, in part, to education’s association with support for civil liberties, and in part, to schooling’s correlation with cognitive sophistication."

http://psycnet.apa.o...als/rel/1/1/14/
"...general religiousness was associated with less accepting attitudes toward homosexuals...general religiousness appears to be linked with selective self-reported intolerance toward persons perceived to behave in a manner inconsistent with some traditional religious teachings."

[IT_Buzz]

I don't think dancing around in gold underwear is going to change the world.

It is almost 2am and I am in a foul mood since I can't sleep, but when read this I busted out laughing.

[vic]

Time for PA, Maine, and Delaware to step and join the rest of the Northeast That chart makes Pennsyltucky apt

if the rest of pennsylvania were anything like Philly, this would have happened long ago...unfortunately Philly is only geographically part of pa...the rest of the state? it's pretty much middle america

[erocstheparty]

<p>I know I am probably going to get some heat for this, but whatever...I have this same conversation with my uncle and aunt who are gay...</p>
<p> </p>
<p>isn&#39;t the whole thing about &quot;Gay Rights&quot; that they want to be recognized as different...yet they want the same laws and rules such as marriage...I don&#39;t get that??</p>
<p> </p>
<p>they need their own flag...why?? To show that they are different??  So why would you want to get married which would be the &quot;same&quot; as everyone else...</p>
<p> </p>
<p>my family has yet to give me a good argument to that comment...so I figured maybe someone here could!!</p>
<div id="myEventWatcherDiv" style="display:none;"> </div>

[Eco]

Look at their flag as a state flag, here in the US we fly a shit ton of state flags but we are all Americans (except the sneaky illegals). So, 50 states fly different flags but still enjoy most of the same rights.....gays in 50 states might fly a yet different flag and still enjoy rights. Many many people fly flags that are not their state flag or their national flag, try it you might like it!

Not sure where you got that they want to be recognized as different, they just want to love and marry whoever they want. They don't want special license plates, cars, food, pets....they just want to love and enjoy the benefits of a union of two people joining as one.....not a big fucking deal.

On a side note, I can completely respect religions that forbid same sex marriage......sort of twisted because I dislike states that recognize "unions" but not "marriages". Fuc, find a church that will marry two same sex people and live a happy life together....hopefully in my neighbor since gay couples take care of their property unlike some opposite sex couples on my street :-)

[Lazy Lightning]

I like flying my Freak Flag, fer instance!

[gregoir]

I'm not a flag waver but how is flying a rainbow flag any different then flying a Steal Your Face flag or a Sports Team flag? It's just a way people identify themselves.

[Rayzeeday]

The problem I see with gay marriage has nothing to do with their rights. In mostly anyone of our ilks eyes they are simply people who want the same benefits as anyone sharing their lives together. For that I commend them. The problem arises from generations of folk in this country who are religious by upbringing. In that upbringing we are taught a marriage is a sanction between a man and woman to produce children (without the help of a lab or surogate). While many a religious folk back most peoples rights of a civil union to protect that union in the eyes of the law. The problem I see is that in seeking protection from the law, insurance companies, and greedy relatives from seizing shared assets when one dies which wrong....................................! The problem I see is their disregard for other peoples rights and views of religious lifestyles. So here it is gay and lesbian folk! Lay off the bible thumpers, while not religious myself my mom and many friends and family are and even though I refuse to follow blind obediance I would never disrespect them. That last big word is the key here, if you want respect give it also. Because its that kind of disrespect that has paved the way for someone like Mitt Romney to rise to power and believe me if you have not read the book of mormon you should>its scary.........................! Peace and love with no offence meant to anyone!

[TakeAStepBack]

^ That is true. The problem with their religious argument is that it is void. The state has usurped the right to outlaw marriage unless a license is obtained from the "authorities". Which means their religious vow means nothing in the context of benefits from the state...power of attorney, etc... That argument holds no water until the state is no longer in control of who can and who can not marry. Just sayin', yo.

[Jwheelz]

I actually do have a problem with religions that decide that entire groups of people don't deserve the same rights as everybody else because of something that they have no control over themselves. I'm sure there have been religious groups that say it's wrong for people of different races to intermarry. I don't believe personally that just because something has the banner of religion that they're somehow free from criticism, and to say that what they preach is wrong is somehow not respecting them.

I am not religious at all, and people can say all they want about how they think I'm a heathen with no moral code. They're not right but if I can be criticized for not believing what other people believe in, then I have every reason to be able to criticize people or groups of people who choose to believe that people are somehow less worthy because of their sexual orientation.

Obviously not every religious group, and hopefully not even close to the majority of them feel this way towards either nonreligious people or gay people. But I don't find religion to be a valid defense of bigotry. Certainly every church has the right to believe what it believes and so do its members. If the church itself wants to discriminate against gay people and not allow them to take part in their religious ceremonies, they have every right to do so. But other people have a right to say they disagree and think it's wrong.

And just because some churches teach that marriage only exists between a man and a woman, doesn't mean that I have to hold my tongue and not express my difference of opinion. It also means that they don't have the right to force their particular views on marriage on everybody else.

Ultimately though (I hope) our system is set up that in the long run if the majority of people want same-sex couples to be able to marry then that's what will happen eventually, regardless of what any particular group has to say about it.

[PeaceFrog]

I had a gay boss once, and he loved talking about having gay sex... I didn't appreciate having to hear that... but I don't really care about sex stories in general... I have known a few heteros who would do the same and I didn't really enjoy it that much either...

I guess everyone ought to just keep their sex life to themselves at work no matter what they may be... my opinion anyway.

[PeaceFrog]

now if a gay woman wanted to tell me stories... I might not mind that...

wonder why that is...

[Jwheelz]

I think most people would agree it's inappropriate for anybody to talk about their sex lives at work... regardless of their orientation

[Rayzeeday]

Lets break it down in terms we all might understand. Like it or not we live in a bigoted world. In the 70's, 80's, and half of the 90's If you were a deadhead with a good job you hid it, or got fired for some reason or another. It was only with Jerry's death did we ever earn any respect from the public at large. Unlike the gay community we never really cared what people thought one way or the other. There are ways to stick up for your rights and not offend anyone but it seems to the gay community as a whole this is not enough. I do not understand the need to insult people over their beliefs weather it be religion or sexual orientation. If you are gay I might concentrate on the bottom half on my above post about Romney. Also if you travel out of the city hub areas in this country you would realize the bigotry against gays is getting more rampant where people are deeply religious. Now without them a city or hub could not survive but yet you go on insulting them and demanding they forget about 700 yrs.of a belief system that seems to me biological in nature. Do you really believe you are the first gay's and lesbians to exist? I am not saying to hide in closets or anything, but take a step back and see how you are hurting people by demanding your right to a marriage sactioned in their world of thought. Now the arrival of the savior>Romney!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Read the book and take a step back is all I am asking.

[scarfire]

it's interesting to analyze the numbers in north carolina - african americans in that state supported the amendment banning same sex marriage by a 2-1 margin.

odd to see such hatred coming from a community once victimized by the same discrimination.

[MeOmYo]

bible belt'd

[Jwheelz]

Lets break it down in terms we all might understand. Like it or not we live in a bigoted world. In the 70's, 80's, and half of the 90's If you were a deadhead with a good job you hid it, or got fired for some reason or another. It was only with Jerry's death did we ever earn any respect from the public at large. Unlike the gay community we never really cared what people thought one way or the other. There are ways to stick up for your rights and not offend anyone but it seems to the gay community as a whole this is not enough. I do not understand the need to insult people over their beliefs weather it be religion or sexual orientation. If you are gay I might concentrate on the bottom half on my above post about Romney. Also if you travel out of the city hub areas in this country you would realize the bigotry against gays is getting more rampant where people are deeply religious. Now without them a city or hub could not survive but yet you go on insulting them and demanding they forget about 700 yrs.of a belief system that seems to me biological in nature. Do you really believe you are the first gay's and lesbians to exist? I am not saying to hide in closets or anything, but take a step back and see how you are hurting people by demanding your right to a marriage sactioned in their world of thought. Now the arrival of the savior&amp;amp;--#62;Romney!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Read the book and take a step back is all I am asking.

#1 - while it's an interesting comparison between deadheads and gay people, it doesn't have a basis in fact. Homosexuality is not a choice, following a band around the country, even a great band like the dead, is definitely a choice.

Religion is a choice, one that is rightly protected by the Constitution, but that doesn't mean it's still not a choice. I don't understand why you're saying a belief system is biological in nature, belief can be indoctrinated but it's not a biological part of the body, it's a choice whether or not it feels like one to follow a particular religion or another. Being gay is a biological thing but it's not a belief, it's an essential part of the person themselves.

#2 - I don't think anybody is demanding that a church that doesn't believe 2 men or 2 women can marry one another should suddenly be forced to permit that type of union. In a perfect world it would be nice if those religions would realize that sexual orientation is not a choice and chose to recognize love between 2 people which is a beautiful thing no matter their gender. But the churches have rights just like anybody else, and nobody says the church has to marry 2 men or 2 women to one another. Gay marriage just means that the state recognizes the union between the 2 people and provides the full rights entitled to any married couple under state and federal law. That's it, anybody asking for anything more than that doesn't understand the nature of our Constitution in the first place.

I think the issue is complicated by the question of the difference between marriage in the religious world and marriage in the secular world. Some churches recognize marriages that would never be recognized by the state and vice versa. The issue though is that many people have different beliefs, and not everybody is a fundamentalist evangelical Christian, or part of any other religion that has been outwardly opposed to gay marriage.

But ultimately we live in a nation of laws, a secular nation, not a religious one. It is a secular nation with a lot of religious people in it, but a secular one it is. Religious groups have every right to lobby for laws that they believe are necessary, but they don't have a right to negate laws that have been passed legitimately just because it conflicts with their beliefs. I'm not sure if that's what you're saying they should be able to do, but it seems it to me a bit.