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Kelly Thomas (might be NSFW)


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#1 vic

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 03:36 PM

http://fullertonstor...minary-hearing/

http://bcove.me/sd5153tf

#2 vic

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 06:24 PM

http://woofie4.pixiq...s/thomas2_6.jpg

#3 mayfly

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 06:57 PM

jeezus......

#4 Joker

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 07:12 PM

It's a shame he chose to lie to the cops from the start, refused to cooperate, didn't do as instructed, tried to flee and resisted arrest. Looks like he put up a hell of a fight though.

:heart:

#5 Depends

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 07:21 PM

It's a shame he chose to lie to the cops from the start, refused to cooperate, didn't do as instructed, tried to flee and resisted arrest. Looks like he put up a hell of a fight though. :heart:


I guess that is as good a reason to die as any....

Which is the death penalty for?
Lying?
Refuse to cooperate?
Not following instructions?
Fleeing?
Resisting?
Being homeless?

#6 vic

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 07:23 PM

joker, there is nothing funny about what a rotten fucking bastard you are.

#7 Joker

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 07:30 PM

None of them are a good reason to die and I never suggested they were.

Here's a link to what happened before this

http://fullertonstor...-contact-video/

There's not a doubt in my mind the cops would rather have just gotten his name, checked him out and sent him on his way, they pretty much say so. What happened truly sucks but it could have easily gone down completely different if the guy had chosen to give them his name rather than being a prick and lying to them (and no the "death penalty" wasn't for being a prick either ;) )

#8 Terrapin Station

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 07:33 PM

I cant watch the video here at work...

So the dude gave a fake name...then was beating to a pulp by police. If so thats soo not right.

#9 Joker

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 07:39 PM

joker, there is nothing funny about what a rotten fucking bastard you are.

Right to the personal attacks, you are without a doubt one of the toughest kids on the internets :lol:

#10 Depends

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 07:39 PM

None of them are a good reason to die and I never suggested they were. Here's a link to what happened before this http://fullertonstor...-contact-video/ There's not a doubt in my mind the cops would rather have just gotten his name, checked him out and sent him on his way, they pretty much say so. What happened truly sucks but it could have easily gone down completely different if the guy had chosen to give them his name rather than being a prick and lying to them (and no the "death penalty" wasn't for being a prick either ;) )


I'm not exactly sure, but my guess is that the police encounter many people who (combine as many as you like) Lie, flee, resist, be a prick, refuse to cooperate, do not follow instructions. without actually killing the person involved.
Hell, even Rodney King escaped with his life.

#11 vic

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 08:04 PM

Kelly Thomas repeatedly apologized to Fullerton police officers, saying he was "sorry" as they continued to pummel him with their fists and batons, a dramatic video of the July 5 beating of the homeless man reveals.

The grainy black-and-white video, shown Monday on the first day of a preliminary hearing for two Fullerton police officers charged in the case, shows a shirtless Thomas being repeatedly struck.
He eventually screams: "Dad, they are killing me."

The sounds of the baton and a fist hitting the homeless man can be heard on an audio recorder that one of the officers had on his belt. Several spectators in the courtroom left during the video, and the judge paused it at one point as people in the crowd groaned.
Two officers, Manuel Ramos and Jay Cicinelli, are charged in Kelly's death.
The video begins with Thomas being detained, uncooperative to a point at which officer Ramos appears to grow angry.
"See these fists," the officer can be heard saying. "They're getting ready to f--- you up," he adds after putting on a pair of gloves.
A short time later, Ramos can be seen hitting Thomas with his baton and heard saying, "get on the ground."
Thomas repeatedly apologizes to Ramos and a second officer. "I am sorry, dude. I can't breathe, dude," Thomas says.
One of the officers can be seen kneeing the 37-year-old homeless man.

Several people in the court left the proceedings, and Orange County Superior Court Judge Walter Schramm paused the tape at one point because of gasps in the courtroom.

"I cannot breathe, man," Thomas says on the video as Ramos tells him to relax. Some of the struggle is hidden by a tree, but a Taser can be heard, apparently stunning Thomas, whose legs appear to wiggle.
Thomas' voice gets lower and lower as the encounter continues. "Dad, they're killing me," he says.
By the time the confrontation ends, Thomas is lying in a pool of blood. Officers then examine their own wounds as they stand over Thomas, handcuffed and on the ground.
"You are covered in blood, dude," one officer can be heard saying to another.
Cicinelli adds: "He is the one you're gonna need to look at."


http://latimesblogs....illing-me-.html

#12 vic

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 08:05 PM

Right to the personal attacks, you are without a doubt one of the toughest kids on the internets :lol:


oh well, let em ban me...you're a pice of shit.

#13 Joker

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 08:05 PM

That would be my guess too.

Sometimes the simplest thing can escalate a situation until it's out of control

#14 vic

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 08:06 PM

I'm not exactly sure, but my guess is that the police encounter many people who (combine as many as you like) Lie, flee, resist, be a prick, refuse to cooperate, do not follow instructions. without actually killing the person involved. Hell, even Rodney King escaped with his life.


don't feed the pigtroll

#15 Joker

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 08:08 PM

oh well, let em ban me...you're a pice of shit.

:crying1:




:goudgrijp_4_16:

#16 vic

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 08:15 PM

"we ran out of options so i took my taser and just started smashing his face to hell"

jay cicinelli

a fire captain said he arrived on the scene to kelly thomas laying on the ground motionless while the police were doing nothing to help him

#17 vic

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 08:17 PM

:crying1: :goudgrijp_4_16:


taunt all you want, tough guy

i'm a better person than you.

#18 vic

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 08:25 PM

Call them and let them know what you think of their behavior.
http://www.cityofful...y_directory.asp

City of Fullerton Police Department. General 714.738.6800
Acting Chief of Police Dan Hughes 714.738.6840 Captain, Investigations Division Dan Hughes 714.738.6841
Captain, Services Division Lorraine Jones 714.738.6839
Captain, Uniform Division George Crum 714-738-6841
Sergeant, Police Public Information Officer Jeff Stuart 714.738.6838"

#19 vic

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 08:28 PM

http://latimesblogs....ense-says-.html

The lawyer for one of the Fullerton policemen charged in the beating of a mentally ill homeless man suggested Tuesday that it was medical professionals –- not police officers -– who are to blame for the death of Kelly Thomas.
In the second day of a preliminary hearing to determine whether two police officers should be ordered to stand trial for killing Thomas outside a bus depot in July, defense attorney John Barnett questioned a trauma surgeon about the treatment the beating victim received after he was rushed to St. Jude Medical Center in Fullerton.
Dr. Michael Lekawa acknowledged under questioning from Barnett that paramedics had informed him that doctors at St. Jude hospital had struggled to insert a breathing tube in Thomas following the July 5 incident. Lekawa said that if a breathing tube is not inserted quickly it can lead to a low oxygen level in the blood, and eventually death.

But Lekawa, the chief trauma surgeon at UCI -- where Thomas was later transfered -- said records did not show such a problem.
"They did everything right," he testified.
A coroner's report found that Kelly had suffered mechanical compression –- pressure on the body leading to a lack of oxygen and eventual brain death.
Officer Manuel Ramos and Cpl. Jay Cicinelli are charged in Kelly’s death -– Ramos with second-degree murder and Cicinelli with involuntary manslaughter. Both have pleaded not guilty.
The surgeon said he was not initially aware of the officers' actions in the field but once he saw what had occurred he understood how Thomas could have sustained enough compression by the weight of the officers that it caused a lack of oxygen to the brain.
The testimony comes a day after a dramatic video of Thomas’ encounter with police was shown in court.

The grainy black-and-white video of Thomas’ violent tangle with police is the centerpiece of the prosecution’s case that the officers escalated a standard police encounter with a homeless man into a fatal beating.

At one point, Thomas –- a 37-year-old mentally ill homeless man who was a familiar face in the city’s downtown -– screams out: “Dad, they are killing me.”
The video and the sound of fists and a baton connecting with Thomas was graphic enough that several spectators in the courtroom left and the judge paused the video at one point as some in the audience began to groan.
He cautioned that those who couldn’t stomach the video should leave.
The case has rocked the north Orange County city, where scores of people have protested, staged memorials and even held a recent public birthday for Kelly Thomas.

#20 Depends

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 09:28 PM

What if it was the other way? What if it went out of control and a police officer was hurt/injured/killed? Would you be so quick to dismiss it as "Sometimes the simplest thing can escalate a situation until it's out of control."?
Police officers (even in Fullerton I would expect) are trained to be IN CONTROL. Trained to have every situation be IN CONTROL. That is their training. Menatally ill homeless people do not have the benefit of that training. It was 5 to 1. Even after the guy was motionless they offered no help.
To dismiss this as a situation gone bad, or as something that could have ended better if only the mentally ill homeless person had acted better is just plain wrong IMO. 5 police officers acted in this manner. If only one of them had tried to stop it, the situation might have had a different ending. But instead, all 5 were in effect Judge, Jury and Executioner.
But yeah, they guy didn't listen, or do what he was told. This is what happens when you do not do as told:

Spoiler


#21 Java Time

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Posted 09 May 2012 - 12:29 AM

didn't get to view the whole thing...but it looks like if the cops tased him after they got him on the ground...he'd still be around.


I still don't understand why folks enable this kind of police behavior...do what they say if your wrongly accused or beaten w/o any provocation...there's money to be made and you get to live....


not sticking up for the cops just questioning some folks' actions.

#22 Eco

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Posted 09 May 2012 - 01:14 AM

Mk.....my 2 cents and my 2 cents on this topic count like 3 cents....

From the video, it looks like a FI (field investigation) and the homeless dude really didn't need to comply with any request other than his ID(that's debatable). With no proof of him offering a struggle it seems like the police were 100% percent at fault in my opinion. For someone like him I would guess/assume one person could handcuff him....maybe two....I've done enough 1-2-3-4 person take downs and IMHO he's a 1-2 person take down. Thinking back at the 100's I've taken down without a tazer, nightstick...not excluded them being a little sore...this type of video makes me thing the police in this case were unworthy of their badges.

#23 deadheadskier

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Posted 09 May 2012 - 04:01 AM

It's a shame he chose to lie to the cops from the start, refused to cooperate, didn't do as instructed, tried to flee and resisted arrest. Looks like he put up a hell of a fight though. :heart:


That would be my guess too. Sometimes the simplest thing can escalate a situation until it's out of control


What do you feel is appropriate punishment for the police officers? From your responses here, it doesn't sound like you feel there should be any.

#24 Mind Left Body

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Posted 09 May 2012 - 10:59 AM

That is terrible. Excessive force times 10.

Joker....I'm sorry but you are way way way of base on this one.

#25 Joker

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Posted 09 May 2012 - 02:02 PM

What if it was the other way? What if it went out of control and a police officer was hurt/injured/killed? Would you be so quick to dismiss it as "Sometimes the simplest thing can escalate a situation until it's out of control."? Police officers (even in Fullerton I would expect) are trained to be IN CONTROL. Trained to have every situation be IN CONTROL. That is their training. Menatally ill homeless people do not have the benefit of that training. It was 5 to 1. Even after the guy was motionless they offered no help. To dismiss this as a situation gone bad, or as something that could have ended better if only the mentally ill homeless person had acted better is just plain wrong IMO. 5 police officers acted in this manner. If only one of them had tried to stop it, the situation might have had a different ending. But instead, all 5 were in effect Judge, Jury and Executioner. But yeah, they guy didn't listen, or do what he was told. This is what happens when you do not do as told:

Spoiler

FTR I'm not trying to dismiss this at all. If it was a cop that got hurt/injured I'd feel the same way which is that we should let all the facts come out in court and then make a decision.

If the cops are guilty of wrongdoing here they should be held definitely be accountable. However from what I can see here the guy is the one that escalated the situation (unfortunately it was probably at least partly due to his mental illness)

I highly doubt the cops training is to be in control of every situation, I'm sure it would be nice to be able to do that but we all know that's just not possible.

The scuffle started when the guy got up and started to move away from the cops when it appeared like they were getting ready to cuff him. It's quite possible if there were 5 of them there then we'd have a different ending. If you've ever been in a situation where you're trying to keep someone under control that doesn't want to be kept, you know that there's no real control other than grabbing an arm or a leg and holding him down as best as possible.

This guy didn't want to be controlled and appeared to be in a state of rage/panic, understandable especially given his illness, which only made the situation worse. When the other cops showed up I imagine their first thoughts were to get the guy under control no matter what before their fellow officers were injured. When the guy was still fighting off 5 of them, the cops can be heard repeatedly telling the guy what they want him to do (hands behind back, lay down on stomach, face down etc...) and he keeps resisting, even after being tased, I'm thinking their next move is to subdue him in any way possible for their own safety. You'll notice they aren't throwing shots at him but rather trying to hold him down to get him under control.

And if only one of them had tried to stop him the situation could have ended up with the guy grabbing one of the cops guns and killing them both as well as others. It's easy to say something should have been handled differently after the fact but I'd say 99% of the time it's better to have more help trying to subdue someone rather than having to do it alone.

#26 Joker

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Posted 09 May 2012 - 02:11 PM

What do you feel is appropriate punishment for the police officers? From your responses here, it doesn't sound like you feel there should be any.

I'd want to hear all the evidence before handing out any type of sentence unlike some who just want to punish the cops right away. Much like the Trayvon case things aren't always as cut and dry as they first appear.

Remember when folks were saying that Zimmerman wasn't injured and there was no blood on his head?

Too many folks want to hang cops for anything they can, regardless of whether or not they know all the facts.

Why not just wait until we learn what we can and then make the decision?

#27 Mind Left Body

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Posted 09 May 2012 - 02:18 PM

So it was ok to essentially crush him to death? The were crushing him until he stopped moving. Repeatedly telling them he couldn't breathe. They didn't care whatsoever. He died of lack of oxygen to the brain and brain truama. All becuase he didn't want to give his name.

Joker...your obsession with defending the Police frightens me. You act like they have cart blanche to do what they want and justify it because they carry a badge and a gun. In every single event that has been brought up on these boards from Occupy to Travon Martin to this you have justified the use of force on the public. Not one single time have you sided with/ had compassion for the public.

Why is that?

#28 Joker

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Posted 09 May 2012 - 02:37 PM

So it was ok to essentially crush him to death? The were crushing him until he stopped moving. Repeatedly telling them he couldn't breathe. They didn't care whatsoever. He died of lack of oxygen to the brain and brain truama. All becuase he didn't want to give his name. Joker...your obsession with defending the Police frightens me. You act like they have cart blanche to do what they want and justify it because they carry a badge and a gun. In every single event that has been brought up on these boards from Occupy to Travon Martin to this you have justified the use of force on the public. Not one single time have you sided with/ had compassion for the public. Why is that?

No, it wasn't ok. Do you really think their plan was to crush him to death? How do you know they didn't care whatsoever? And honestly, was it really all because he didn't want to give his name or were there other factors involved?

If he couldn't breathe he probably should have stopped resisting them. The fact that he was still fighting with them and that he had already lied to them was probably a good enough reason not to believe he was all of a sudden being honest and cooperating with them.

They don't have the right to do what they want, I've never said that and I've repeatedly said any cop guilty of wrongdoing should be held accountable.

In every single case what I've done is point out that we should wait until all the evidence has been heard because there's more than one side to be heard.

Who said I don't have compassion for this guy?

Does one have to immediately find the cops guilty in order to show compassion?

#29 Mind Left Body

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Posted 09 May 2012 - 03:01 PM

No, it wasn't ok. Do you really think their plan was to crush him to death? How do you know they didn't care whatsoever? And honestly, was it really all because he didn't want to give his name or were there other factors involved? If he couldn't breathe he probably should have stopped resisting them. The fact that he was still fighting with them and that he had already lied to them was probably a good enough reason not to believe he was all of a sudden being honest and cooperating with them. They don't have the right to do what they want, I've never said that and I've repeatedly said any cop guilty of wrongdoing should be held accountable. In every single case what I've done is point out that we should wait until all the evidence has been heard because there's more than one side to be heard. Who said I don't have compassion for this guy? Does one have to immediately find the cops guilty in order to show compassion?


Don't misunderstand me. I am not anti police at all. They have a job to do. In this instance, from what I saw on the video, the force used was absurdly excessive. I don't see how anyone in their right mind couldn't see that. And there was a point where he was not resisting at all and they still were crushing him. You have zero proof that he lied. He just wasn't forth coming with his name and on the 2nd video it is clear he was sitting down and complying with their wishes and I could hear clear as day that the cop was verbally abusing him. From what i can tell he seemed more frightened by the whole situation than anything else. Also at the start of the video you included you can clearly see the cop swing around his baton from the very start. Why? He was completely non threatening and even gave up his backpack when asked to.

Maybe this should happen to people who don't give their name....


Posted Image

#30 deadheadskier

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Posted 09 May 2012 - 03:16 PM

I'd want to hear all the evidence before handing out any type of sentence unlike some who just want to punish the cops right away. Much like the Trayvon case things aren't always as cut and dry as they first appear. Remember when folks were saying that Zimmerman wasn't injured and there was no blood on his head? Too many folks want to hang cops for anything they can, regardless of whether or not they know all the facts. Why not just wait until we learn what we can and then make the decision?


You handed a sentence for Kelly with your first comments in this thread Joker.

You work in security yes? Your stance and quick defense of police in these situations is alarming given your occupation.

#31 Mind Left Body

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Posted 09 May 2012 - 03:24 PM

After reading multiple accounts it has been stated that he was a "staple" in the homeless community of Fullerton. How could the cops not know who he was?

I see the cops dealing with homeless people in Burlington all the time. They all know the names of the homeless.

Why were the all over this guy about his name? Why was the cop verbally abusing him when he was just sitting there? (This part is fact and it is perfectly clear on the video and not up for debate whatsoever)

#32 vic

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Posted 09 May 2012 - 03:27 PM

don't feed it.

Posted Image

#33 vic

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Posted 09 May 2012 - 03:31 PM

After reading multiple accounts it has been stated that he was a "staple" in the homeless community of Fullerton. How could the cops not know who he was? I see the cops dealing with homeless people in Burlington all the time. They all know the names of the homeless. Why were the all over this guy about his name? Why was the cop verbally abusing him when he was just sitting there? (This part is fact and it is perfectly clear on the video and not up for debate whatsoever)



it's pretty much pre-meditated..."these fists are getting ready to fuck you up" was the exact quote, right?

i'd like to know how someone is supposed to remain still with 1200 volts of taser juice running through them? and how cops are not aware of people seizing when tasers are shot into them? the seizures to a cop apparently mean resisting.

i'd like to know why only 2 cops are being charged...hopefully the others are still being investigated

#34 Depends

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Posted 09 May 2012 - 03:32 PM

your flippant reply "Looks like he put up a hell of a fight though." could be construed as zero compassion.
It seems your reply is that the guy is better off dead, because there is a possibility, however slight, that he could have taken the cops gun and killed them.

I don't want anybody convicted before a trial. And yes, they are innocent before proven guilty. But opinions abound, not based in guilt/innocence, but rather methods used. Some here take the stance that it appeared to be excessive force. You seem (IMO) that the police were justified, because this guy was non compliant, and combative.
I'd venture to say that police run into combative people all the time, without killing them. I watch COPS. Happens all the time.

And your comment that "In every single case what I've done is point out that we should wait until all the evidence has been heard because there's more than one side to be heard." is just plain untrue.

Your response to this was "It's a shame he chose to lie to the cops from the start, refused to cooperate, didn't do as instructed, tried to flee and resisted arrest." Which leads one to believe that you think he somehow deserved it, that it was entirely his fault.

#35 MeOmYo

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Posted 09 May 2012 - 03:37 PM

If someone comes at you with a baton and starts beating the shit out of you, you're going to resist out of instinct. Cover your face so I cannot hit it with my baton, well, that is resisting. Curl up in the fetal position so I cannot knee you in the ribs, resisting. Squirm because I am twisting your arm so hard your should might pop out any time, resisting.

#36 MeOmYo

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Posted 09 May 2012 - 03:38 PM

just lay there and take the pain, because I said so, or you are resisting. everyone knows the way to stop someone from resisting is to beat them to a bloody pulp.

#37 vic

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Posted 09 May 2012 - 03:38 PM

also, at what point did he try to flee? maybe before he was sitting down and being verbally abused and threatened, but not after. he merely stood up. then he gets ambushed by the 2nd cop. the beating goes on for a ridiculously long time. this just looks like letting out aggression on someone they view as less than a person. nobody cares about the homeless, right?

pigtroll says let the facts come out, but calls the guy guilty by saying he refused to cooperate and resisted arrest and all that nonsense. the lie is pretty bold here. thomas is trying to comply. he's asking the cop where he wants him to put his hands and the cop just keeps threatening him. i'd be scared as fuck. there was no way out for kelly thomas.

#38 Joker

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Posted 09 May 2012 - 03:39 PM

Don't misunderstand me. I am not anti police at all. They have a job to do. In this instance, from what I saw on the video, the force used was absurdly excessive. I don't see how anyone in their right mind couldn't see that. And there was a point where he was not resisting at all and they still were crushing him. You have zero proof that he lied. He just wasn't forth coming with his name and on the 2nd video it is clear he was sitting down and complying with their wishes and I could hear clear as day that the cop was verbally abusing him. From what i can tell he seemed more frightened by the whole situation than anything else. Also at the start of the video you included you can clearly see the cop swing around his baton from the very start. Why? He was completely non threatening and even gave up his backpack when asked to. Maybe this should happen to people who don't give their name.... Posted Image

You're wrong about having zero proof he lied. For starters he told the cops he didn't speak English and he told them he couldn't put his legs out and his hands on his knees, both lies. Did you notice the video where he was "just sitting" how the cop told him to sit with his legs out and hands on his knees? There's a reason for him having the guy sit like that (tougher for him to get up and run/attack) the guy wasn't complying with their wishes he kept fucking around and that just further escalated the incident. Then when he's getting up he tells the cops he's sick of playing fucking games and when told to get on the ground he starts to back away as if to take off, then they take him down and he continues to fight them.

The simple fact we both see different things is reason enough to wait until all the evidence has been presented before proclaiming guilt.

Perhaps you believe that should happen to people who don't give their name, I certainly don't, and that's not why it happened to this guy

#39 MeOmYo

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Posted 09 May 2012 - 03:40 PM

and because I cannot possibly inflict enough damage to someone resisting by myself, I need to call 5 other trained people to beat the shit outta this guy too.

#40 Joker

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Posted 09 May 2012 - 03:40 PM

You handed a sentence for Kelly with your first comments in this thread Joker. You work in security yes? Your stance and quick defense of police in these situations is alarming given your occupation.

Really? What sentence was that?

#41 deadheadskier

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Posted 09 May 2012 - 03:43 PM

If someone comes at you with a baton and starts beating the shit out of you, you're going to resist out of instinct. Cover your face so I cannot hit it with my baton, well, that is resisting. Curl up in the fetal position so I cannot knee you in the ribs, resisting. Squirm because I am twisting your arm so hard your should might pop out any time, resisting.


It is called fight or flight reflex and is not voluntarily controlled. It is an automatic physiological response to stress.

#42 Joker

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Posted 09 May 2012 - 03:44 PM

After reading multiple accounts it has been stated that he was a "staple" in the homeless community of Fullerton. How could the cops not know who he was? I see the cops dealing with homeless people in Burlington all the time. They all know the names of the homeless. Why were the all over this guy about his name? Why was the cop verbally abusing him when he was just sitting there? (This part is fact and it is perfectly clear on the video and not up for debate whatsoever)

I have no idea why they would or wouldn't know him. Are you suggesting they did know who he was and just pretended they didn't?

Couldn't tell you why the cop was giving him shit, probably because the guy was doing the same to the cop

#43 Depends

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Posted 09 May 2012 - 03:45 PM

You're wrong about having zero proof he lied. For starters he told the cops he didn't speak English and he told them he couldn't put his legs out and his hands on his knees, both lies. Did you notice the video where he was "just sitting" how the cop told him to sit with his legs out and hands on his knees? There's a reason for him having the guy sit like that (tougher for him to get up and run/attack) the guy wasn't complying with their wishes he kept fucking around and that just further escalated the incident. Then when he's getting up he tells the cops he's sick of playing fucking games and when told to get on the ground he starts to back away as if to take off, then they take him down and he continues to fight them. The simple fact we both see different things is reason enough to wait until all the evidence has been presented before proclaiming guilt. Perhaps you believe that should happen to people who don't give their name, I certainly don't, and that's not why it happened to this guy


Maybe, just maybe, all you say is true. That hopefully will come out in a trial. We won't know until then.
But whether all of it is true, or none of it is true, or some of it is true, the guy died at the hands of the police. That fact is not in question.

#44 Depends

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Posted 09 May 2012 - 03:45 PM

I have no idea why they would or wouldn't know him. Are you suggesting they did know who he was and just pretended they didn't? Couldn't tell you why the cop was giving him shit, probably because the guy was doing the same to the cop

or vice versa

#45 MeOmYo

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Posted 09 May 2012 - 03:46 PM

You're wrong about having zero proof he lied. For starters he told the cops he didn't speak English and he told them he couldn't put his legs out and his hands on his knees, both lies. Did you notice the video where he was "just sitting" how the cop told him to sit with his legs out and hands on his knees? There's a reason for him having the guy sit like that (tougher for him to get up and run/attack) the guy wasn't complying with their wishes he kept fucking around and that just further escalated the incident. Then when he's getting up he tells the cops he's sick of playing fucking games and when told to get on the ground he starts to back away as if to take off, then they take him down and he continues to fight them. The simple fact we both see different things is reason enough to wait until all the evidence has been presented before proclaiming guilt. Perhaps you believe that should happen to people who don't give their name, I certainly don't, and that's not why it happened to this guy


is it unlawful to lie? don't we still have the right to remain silent? If we choose to exercise this right, isn't it up to law enforcement to identify us, not beat it out of us? do you really think that when someone chooses to remain silent it creates an "escelated" situation?

#46 MeOmYo

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Posted 09 May 2012 - 03:50 PM

and lastly, even if these cops are acquitted, it still does not make it right.

#47 Joker

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Posted 09 May 2012 - 03:56 PM

your flippant reply "Looks like he put up a hell of a fight though." could be construed as zero compassion. It seems your reply is that the guy is better off dead, because there is a possibility, however slight, that he could have taken the cops gun and killed them. I don't want anybody convicted before a trial. And yes, they are innocent before proven guilty. But opinions abound, not based in guilt/innocence, but rather methods used. Some here take the stance that it appeared to be excessive force. You seem (IMO) that the police were justified, because this guy was non compliant, and combative. I'd venture to say that police run into combative people all the time, without killing them. I watch COPS. Happens all the time. And your comment that "In every single case what I've done is point out that we should wait until all the evidence has been heard because there's more than one side to be heard." is just plain untrue. Your response to this was "It's a shame he chose to lie to the cops from the start, refused to cooperate, didn't do as instructed, tried to flee and resisted arrest." Which leads one to believe that you think he somehow deserved it, that it was entirely his fault.

Well if it could be construed that way I apologize.

I agree some see it as excessive force and I can see why they would. However, IMHO, the video clearly shows him lying to the cops (can't speaking English), refusing to cooperate (not giving them his name), didn't do as instructed (sit with his legs out and hands on knees) and resisting arrest (fighting against them)

Is it "entirely" his fault? No, the cops could have said fuck it and just let the guy do whatever he wanted to do. But from what I see it appears to me he holds most of the responsibility for the situation turning out the way it did.

The cops seemed more than willing to just get his name and let him go on his way, in fact, they told him just that.

#48 Depends

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Posted 09 May 2012 - 04:06 PM

I disagree 100%. His actions could have caused him to be arrested, maybe. His actions could have caused him to be detained. I see nothing here where his actions were cause for him to die. Even without dying, he got a hell of a beating. Ever been in a fight? There is a point when you stop beating the other guy. That point is usually before his pulse stops. Even if it is five against one.

Your response that it wasn't entirely his fault, that is you saying "the cops could have said fuck it and just let the guy do whatever he wanted to do." just shows your disregard for this man's life. Are you saying the only choices were to comply 100% or die? That after he choose to lie about his name that the only solution was the final solution? I'm not familiar with Fullerton Police Tactics, but I assume that there are other choices.

#49 deadheadskier

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Posted 09 May 2012 - 04:09 PM

But from what I see it appears to me he holds most of the responsibility for the situation turning out the way it did.


After seeing the evidence presented and knowing the end result, someone with this mindset should NEVER be employed in a position of authority, whether private security or a public officer.

#50 -Q-

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Posted 09 May 2012 - 04:17 PM

who's the real troll here? look in the mirror vic.you should be banned for personal attacks. just because you don't like someones response doesn't give you the right to attack them. your doing the same thing these cops did


don't feed it. Posted Image