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Calif. lawmakers: No repeal of foie gras ban


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#51 deadheadskier

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Posted 05 May 2012 - 05:39 AM

There's a ton of famous professors from CSU - Temple may rank, but hardly "the most famous"


Fair enough, but she is the most famous scientist in the country on the humane treatment of animals in the agriculture industry.

That's my point. If the foremost expert says something is okay, I'm going to be fairly well convinced that what they say is valid; and if I doubt what they say, I'm going to seek out the answer independently on my own. If I witness something with my own eyes and learn everything possible about the subject for over four years (which I did concerning foie gras) and my opinions align with the foremost expert in the field, along with most farmers and anyone else who has visited the farm? I'm going to be highly convicted in my opinions.

The thing is my opinion on the subject really has little to do with my like of Foie Gras as food. I do like it, but I'm no DHJ. I'd be far more pissed off if the government told me I couldn't eat beef anymore than foie gras. It's about having met the farmers, knowing their passion for treating their livestock well and having their livelihoods attacked for no reason at all.

People should be more informed before rushing to judgment.

#52 deadheadskier

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Posted 05 May 2012 - 05:56 AM

and fuck it, I will share one more bit of telling information.

The Director of Operations for Hudson Valley Foie Gras, who has a phD in Animal Science is a VEGETARIAN. He doesn't eat meat for ethical reasons, but accepts the fact that others do. He got into agriculture because he wanted to at least make sure that if animals are to be eaten, that they are given a humane life and slaughter. I've sat and had the conversation with him in person.

That's right. The farm that "tortures" ducks is run by a vegetarian who doesn't even eat what the farm produces.



#53 Tim the Beek

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Posted 05 May 2012 - 12:07 PM

....the "KKK fund for underprivileged Billionaires"


Those ignorant white men sure do know how to throw a party though...

#54 seany

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Posted 05 May 2012 - 01:37 PM

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#55 GoPlastic

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 06:22 PM

ban takes effect today. many restaurants are offering to cook fois which the customers bring to them, then charge $$$ to serve it on toast, ala corkage fee for wines.

they're calling it "foikage" :lol:

#56 Luna

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 06:28 PM

I think its a great bill. Sometimes we have to put the animal first. And this is one way to do it

#57 TheDHJ

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 06:43 PM

ban takes effect today. many restaurants are offering to cook fois which the customers bring to them, then charge $$$ to serve it on toast, ala corkage fee for wines.

they're calling it "foikage" :lol:


Excellent. I hope Keller is in on this. I will continue to fight this tooth and nail.

I think its a great bill. Sometimes we have to put the animal first. And this is one way to do it


Did you not read the entire thread? The animal welfare angle is crap.

#58 elder

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 06:53 PM

I'd have to actually see the process of the foie gras. If the ducks looked happy about it, maybe I'd give it a try.


How can you tell if a duck is happy? They don't have lips. They can't smile!

#59 PeaceFrog

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 08:24 PM

How can you tell if a duck is happy? They don't have lips. They can't smile!


This one expresses his (or her, I can't tell) appreciation by dancing and honking:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Z2qdI0LlN0

#60 Java Time

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 08:25 PM

There's a thread here extolling bacon. Why isn't anyone in there talking about the treatment of mass market pigs?


becuase bacon is fucking awesome!!!


actually...I've never heard of pigs being treated badly, other than being killed...only cows and chickens and sheep (as far as food).

#61 PeaceFrog

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 08:27 PM

there's a difference between killing something and torturing it.

#62 china cat

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 08:27 PM

About the video:

0:33 "A few twisted angry people would like to take your foie gras away. These fanatical stealth vegan extremists believe that the forcefeeding of ducks to plumb their liver is actually cruel." -- This is obviously not going to be a calm reasoned argument but rather biased view that attacks the other side. Something I can't support no matter what side I'm on.

0:36 "...vegan extremists believe that the force feeding of ducks to plumb their liver is actually cruel." -- The exact requirements of "cruel" can be debated, just look at the debates that have gone on about what constitutes "torture" as applied to humans. Still, what argument can ever be made (in a non medical setting) that "force feeding" is a good or even neutral thing? It may not qualify as "cruel" but on a scale where zero-is-neutral, force feeding is surely somewhere on the negative side, right?

0:45 "[they want] ...to outlaw something they’ve never even tried..." -- Bordain should stick to talking about food and leave the arguments to people that can think straight. Do I have to try murder or spousal abuse to know it's wrong?

1:28 "She's nice. She likes animals. She's not evil." -- Again, demonizing sides (which all parties tend to do) is a tactic I just can't stand. Let's get to the root of the issue, not try to make people devils or saints

2:29 Here is where the pipe is actually put down the duck's throat. -- Even with the doctor's assurance that this does not cut off their air-way and that they have a lining so that this is not painful -- watch this a few times, see the pipe expanding the duck's throat -- and tell me this is pleasurable for the duck. Again on a scale where -10 is horrid torture, zero is neutral, and +10 is a wonderful life -- this may not be "cruel" but can anyone here tell me they think this treatment does not fall on the negative side of the scale?

Then there are more of Bordain's arguments/reasons (like "[the activists] don't concern themselves with MY liver") that really are just noise to a reasoned discussion.


Next up...the real question...

Posted Image

So what is the argument for supporting the consumption of Foie Gras? You can't say it's a necessity. You can't say the ducks would prefer to be inside with hundreds of other ducks as opposed to being free. You can't say they are better off being force fed. ~ You can say it's less-painful than other ways we treat animals. You can say that some of the tactics used by the people that want to ban it are unfair or wrong. But is that really a reason to support it? Seems to me (and maybe I'm being unfair here?) that the argument for consuming Foie Gras is: It tastes good, we like it, and we can.

By the way, I'm not necessarily for a ban on Foie Gras. I almost certainly would support bans on the worst, most painful ways that some animals are treated. As the treatment moves away from the very worst and gets closer and closer to more borderline/debatable treatment, I'd prefer the issue be left up to trying to be sure individuals are making fully informed decisions rather than use the force of law.



love the way your mind processes.

#63 PeaceFrog

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 08:30 PM

here's another happy looking duck:



#64 PeaceFrog

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 08:33 PM

this mallard is obviously very sad about his dead girlfriend:



I feel so sorry for him :(

but at least some friends dropped by at the end.

#65 elder

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 08:34 PM

In my eyes, if you support this practice of force plumping ducks, even if it is treated semi-humanly up until the plumping, you might as well eat any commercial farmed and fucked with animal.

I mean whats the sense of not eating say your commercially confined pig?
Or better example I guess is your milk-fed veal.

I think what happens is once someone grows a liking to something, they can rationalize the cruelty right out of it.

#66 Tim the Beek

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 08:35 PM

becuase bacon is fucking awesome!!!


actually...I've never heard of pigs being treated badly, other than being killed...only cows and chickens and sheep (as far as food).


Mass market hog farming is pretty awful. And it does a lot of damage to the ecosystems which surround it.

#67 PeaceFrog

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 08:42 PM

I think animals have feelings that are more pure than humans. I doubt they have any ulterior motives.

#68 PeaceFrog

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 08:43 PM

I'd have to guess that ducks don't enjoy being force-fed through a tube, as I don't believe DHJ would like it either, despite his appreciation for food.

#69 PeaceFrog

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 08:47 PM

these ducks don't seem as though they enjoy the treatment:



#70 TheDHJ

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 09:10 PM

becuase bacon is fucking awesome!!!


actually...I've never heard of pigs being treated badly, other than being killed...only cows and chickens and sheep (as far as food).

In my eyes, if you support this practice of force plumping ducks, even if it is treated semi-humanly up until the plumping, you might as well eat any commercial farmed and fucked with animal.

I mean whats the sense of not eating say your commercially confined pig?
Or better example I guess is your milk-fed veal.

I think what happens is once someone grows a liking to something, they can rationalize the cruelty right out of it.


Again folks, read the entire thread, especially what DHS has to say. I only eat foie that comes from the places he's described. Watch the Bourdain video too. DHS is an expert in this field. I am only an expert in where to consume it.

#71 PeaceFrog

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 09:37 PM

I'm an expert in how ducks feel about the situation and nothing else.

#72 Java Time

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 09:38 PM

Mass market hog farming is pretty awful. And it does a lot of damage to the ecosystems which surround it.


well thanks a lot jerk...I never heard of it before and was blissfully happy about it!!! :joker:

now I'll have to sigh and say damn as I eat pork products...cuz I'm still gonna eat 'em :smile:

#73 Java Time

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 09:41 PM

Again folks, read the entire thread, especially what DHS has to say. I only eat foie that comes from the places he's described. Watch the Bourdain video too. DHS is an expert in this field. I am only an expert in where to consume it.


hey man...I wasn't knocking that whole duck thing!!!

Now I am...boo-hiss force feeding duck fucks...boo-hiss. you're so evil!!! :funny1:

#74 Tim the Beek

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 09:51 PM

well thanks a lot jerk...I never heard of it before and was blissfully happy about it!!! :joker:

now I'll have to sigh and say damn as I eat pork products...cuz I'm still gonna eat 'em :smile:


Or you could spend a little more, and buy 'em from local sources. :mrgreen:

#75 Java Time

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 09:59 PM

Or you could spend a little more, and buy 'em from local sources. :mrgreen:


oooooooh that would be awesome and awesomely delicious

#76 Tim the Beek

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 10:02 PM

Woudn't it though... :)

http://www.sustainab...es/whybuylocal/

#77 Julius

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 10:03 PM

talk around here is of how to legally circumvent the ban. It cannot be SOLD but it can be given away, perhaps with a higher cost meal.

#78 TheDHJ

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 10:13 PM

The next time I'm in CA I'm going to have some shipped to me and cooked in public.

Don't tell me what I can and can't eat.

#79 PeaceFrog

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 10:32 PM

eat more broccoli

#80 Java Time

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 10:35 PM

eat more dog

#81 PeaceFrog

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 10:40 PM

when in Indonesia, do as the Indonesians do

#82 TheDHJ

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 10:46 PM

Indonesia is predominantly Muslim, and dog is not halal. The minahasa people consume it though.

#83 Tabbooma

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 10:53 PM

You are such a rebel ;) Tabbooma likes the stuff, have not really read up on how they produce it or read this thread, too many words after long day, might change his mind if he did, but it sure is tasty :)

The next time I'm in CA I'm going to have some shipped to me and cooked in public.

Don't tell me what I can and can't eat.



#84 deadheadskier

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 03:29 AM

talk around here is of how to legally circumvent the ban. It cannot be SOLD but it can be given away, perhaps with a higher cost meal.


That was the case in Chicago and during the ban, consumption in the city doubled. Restaurants would charge $30 for toast points, but give away the foie for "free".

I'm not going to comment any further regarding how these ducks are raised. All I can say is if you have concern, visit the farm. They are open for tours 24/7/365. They want as many people as possible to visit and see for themselves.

#85 TheDHJ

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 03:32 AM

Posted Image

#86 TheDHJ

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 03:34 AM

:crook:

#87 deadheadskier

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 03:35 AM

jaysus!!!

That would cost big dollars in any restaurant in the US. Looks like a 6 ounce portion at least.

#88 Julius

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 03:39 AM

My biggest problem with foia gras is that you bloody yanks insist on making it with duck. Yuk! Fuck that shit man. Every good European knows it should made from goose. I won't even eat that duck liver crap and it's so hard to find a good pate made from goose liver, almost impossible. And when you do they ruin it by mixing in chicken liver or some crap like that.

#89 TheDHJ

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 03:40 AM

Can you imagine a local cop bargaining into a fancy restaurant and giving the chef a citation? It could happen, of course but is hardly likely. Some police agencies have publicly stated that for the time being they will not be going after duck liver violators. Similarly, the few remaining animal control officers in each California country are stretched very thin and the likelihood of making an arrest or issuing a citation is dim. It’s a matter of money and frankly, these agencies have little to spare. Since foie gras is still legal to own, people can bring it into the state by car or perhaps even purchase on-line. One company is reportedly setting up a foie gras store in Reno aimed at the Northern California drive market. Like the new “French Connection.”

“Enforcement was an issue in Chicago, and it very well could be in California, said Mark Caro. “With more serious food safety issues to tackle, how much effort will inspectors up and down that very large state want to devote to determining whether some restaurant's "duck liver terrine" actually is foie gras? How the ban plays out may wind up being more about what the chefs do than the enforcers, though. Will restaurants defy or otherwise get around the law, like giving away the foie with a $15 brioche, or will they decide the fat livers aren't worth the hassle,” said Caro.

http://www.examiner....-liver-let-live

#90 TheDHJ

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 03:42 AM

jaysus!!!

That would cost big dollars in any restaurant in the US. Looks like a 6 ounce portion at least.


$23CAD. Chef Picard makes foie accessible and affordable.

#91 TheDHJ

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 03:46 AM

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Au Cinqueme Peche. Pork shank and foie terrine. :drool:

#92 TheDHJ

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 03:49 AM

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You sit and wonder to yourself as a noob why there's a deranged homeless man on the line. :lol:

#93 deadheadskier

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 03:52 AM

My biggest problem with foia gras is that you bloody yanks insist on making it with duck. Yuk! Fuck that shit man. Every good European knows it should made from goose. I won't even eat that duck liver crap and it's so hard to find a good pate made from goose liver, almost impossible. And when you do they ruin it by mixing in chicken liver or some crap like that.


Well, the reason Duck Foie is as readily available in the US as it is is because of a French woman. Ariane Daguin and her father Andre (a former two star Michelin chef in France) both prefer Duck to Goose. The texture is creamier and it has less issues with veins than Goose.

The reason it's almost impossible to find goose liver foie in the US is there is not a single producer and it is illegal to import it fresh. Frozen makes it's way to the states during the holidays, but you're talking $100/# wholesale frozen vs. $45/# for fresh US raised product. Geese are extremely expensive to raise just for the meat, never mind doing so for Foie. A US farmer would never be profitable doing it.

#94 TheDHJ

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 03:56 AM

French law states that "Foie gras belongs to the protected cultural and gastronomical heritage of France."

#95 TheDHJ

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 04:04 AM

Posted Image

#96 Julius

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 04:11 AM

thanks for that explanation, that explains a lot.

#97 deadheadskier

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 04:11 AM

$23CAD. Chef Picard makes foie accessible and affordable.


That makes sense. Canadian Foie is cheaper than US for a couple of reasons. For 1 the gavage only lasts two weeks vs. 3 for American Foie. The reason is that the vast majority of Canadian Foie is used for making terrines and torchon. They don't incorporate soy into the diet like American farms do. The soy helps in caramelizing for searing applications. You need to grow a bigger liver for searing in order to get several 2 ounce pieces out of a lobe.

The other factor is that the largest producer in Quebec is Palmex, which is owned by the French company Rougie; the largest Foie farming company in the world. Rougie' produces literally 100 times as much Foie as is produced in all of the US. So, they're able to operate on smaller margins.

#98 Luna

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 04:49 PM

In my eyes, if you support this practice of force plumping ducks, even if it is treated semi-humanly up until the plumping, you might as well eat any commercial farmed and fucked with animal.

I mean whats the sense of not eating say your commercially confined pig?
Or better example I guess is your milk-fed veal.

I think what happens is once someone grows a liking to something, they can rationalize the cruelty right out of it.


agreed. I think that's what it comes down to.

And while I will conceed to my persistent friend GoP lol .... that if this were ONLY an issue of excessive governmental control I would not vote for it. But its not only about that. It's also about the welfare of the animal. It may, as some of you say, not be the bill's main purpose or ultimate evil intent ... but it is a wonderul and unprecedentated result.

I am NOT saying everyone should drop their Sobe burgers and foie gras in the trash and adopt a cow. I agree the government should allow us to make our own choices. But I will still celebrate a huge step for animal rights.

#99 Ginger Snap

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Posted 07 July 2013 - 11:39 PM

I thought  this video was cool. 

 

"At the Taste3 conference, chef Dan Barber tells the story of a small farm in Spain that has found a humane way to produce foie gras. Raising his geese in a natural environment, farmer Eduardo Sousa embodies the kind of food production Barber believes in."

 

http://www.ted.com/t...as_parable.html