224 replies to this topic

[Feck]

reminds me of a song we sang at Pete's 90th birthday party


Stand up, all victims of oppression,
For the tyrants fear your might!
Don't cling so hard to your possessions,
For you have nothing if you have no rights!
Let racist ignorance be ended,
For respect makes the empires fall!
Freedom is merely privilege extended,
Unless enjoyed by one and all.
So come brothers and sisters,
For the struggle carries on.
The Internationale,
Unites the world in song.
So comrades, come rally,
For this is the time and place!
The international ideal,
Unites the human race.

Let no one build walls to divide us,
Walls of hatred nor walls of stone.
Come greet the dawn and stand beside us,
We'll live together or we'll die alone.
In our world poisoned by exploitation,
Those who have taken, now they must give!
And end the vanity of nations,
We've but one Earth on which to live.
So come brothers and sisters,
For the struggle carries on.
The Internationale,
Unites the world in song.
So comrades, come rally,
For this is the time and place!
The international ideal,
Unites the human race.

And so begins the final drama,
In the streets and in the fields.
We stand unbowed before their armour,
We defy their guns and shields!
When we fight, provoked by their aggression,
Let us be inspired by life and love.
For though they offer us concessions,
Change will not come from above!
So come brothers and sisters,
For the struggle carries on.
The Internationale,
Unites the world in song.
So comrades, come rally,
For this is the time and place!
The Internationale,
Unites the human race.

[Lostsailr]

When you invite 99% of the population to join you, you get some people with bad behavior/judgment. (Dead shows of old were a pretty good example of how mostly well meaning crowd can get judged by a few ass-hats who join in).

To me the Tea Party seemed to exclude so many Americans that I can't really see the comparison too well.
They just missed the point in my view, standing on publicly built roads and sidewalk and protesting what taxes are used for. (many of whome recieve S.S. and Medicare)

My support for occupiers is based on my assessment that corporations and the VEEEERRRRRYYYYYY wealthy have much more influence on our government because the job of 99.9% of politicians is to get reelected, so fund raising is their top priority... and pleasing those with the $$$$ through policy and law is their M.O.
Watching people who don't make multi-millions yearly actually defend them is a puzzle to me. Not that they don't have the right to make that much $$$, many people would like to, but when they make $$ by sending jobs elsewhere then blame the Gov't for a bad economy... AND ask for tax breaks for their corporations

[Tabbooma]

Joker have you been to either? Tabbooma was at a Tea Party rally 2 weeks ago, everyone was white, and over 50... The Occupy events Tabbooma has been to is whole range of ages, you just keep pointing out a couple nuckle heads that look for shit and cast a broad brush that the whole movement is like that.. You need some new material. Tabbooma has spoken

Protected? Not sure what you mean by that but I'd never say that the Koch brothers aren't involved with it now. The Tea Party was certainly corrupted by right wing influences much like Occupy has been corrupted by the left. I don't think anyone can argue the amount of violence, law breaking and disregard for others from the Occupy protests far exceeds that of the Tea Party protests.

[Deadshow Dan]

I'm sorry the wiki doesn't have anything in it . Further research will point you.

[TakeAStepBack]

http://www.takver.co...tory/mayday.htm

MAY DAY-THE AUSTRALIAN CONNECTION

In 1884, the 1st of May 1886 had been chosen as the day the Federation of Organised Trade and Labour Unions of the United States and Canada had earmarked "as the date from and after which eight hours shall constitute a legal days labour". On the 1st May 1886, Australia's first anarchist organisation was formed - The Melbourne Anarchist Club.
From 1887 to 1889 the 1st May was remembered and celebrated in Australia only by anarchists associated with the Melbourne Anarchist Club. In 1890 May Day celebrations were held in the office of Dr. Maloney MP in Melbourne, Chummy Fleming, a well known Melbourne anarchist, attended these celebrations. Demonstrations and celebrations were held in Ipswich and Barcoldine on the 1st May 1891 during the Shearers Strike, over 1,000 men took part in the Barcoldine march, 600 mounted on horseback.
Melbourne held its first public May Day celebration on the 1st of May 1892. The celebration on the Yarra Bank was proceeded by a march which began at the Burke and Wills monument. The meeting at the Yarra Bank was chaired by the principal organisers of the March, the anarchist Chummy Fleming. May Day was celebrated in Australia from 1892 to 1899. It was not celebrated in Melbourne and the rest of Australia from 1900 to 1927.
When May Day celebrations were recommenced in 1928, Chummy Fleming the Melbourne anarchist, although not part of the official organising committee led the May Day March in Melbourne until his death in the mid 1950's. He normally started marching 30 minutes before the official march and waited for the main march to catch up with him.


This is all I found.

[Joker]

Nothing on this Vic?

[Joker]

Joker have you been to either? Tabbooma was at a Tea Party rally 2 weeks ago, everyone was white, and over 50... The Occupy events Tabbooma has been to is whole range of ages, you just keep pointing out a couple nuckle heads that look for shit and cast a broad brush that the whole movement is like that.. You need some new material. Tabbooma has spoken

I stopped by the Boston camp briefly a few times and donated, never hit up Tea Party event. What difference does it make if everyone was white and over 50?

It's far more than a couple of dopes. And again, I've repeatedly stated it isn't the entire movement acting like that yet I keep getting accused of painting the entire movement with that brush. Please either show me where I do that or stop saying it.

However, THIS TIME, it seems like it IS the plan of OWS as a group to shut down bridges and roadways. That's a hell of a lot more than a couple who are planning to cause chaos and create a disturbance that could endanger many innocent people. It's just not right to pull that type of shit no matter what the cause. Endanger yourselves if you feel that strongly about it but leave innocent people out of it.

Here's an idea, give a couple of volunteers a gasoline bath and a lighter and they'll get all the attention they want without fucking with anybody else. It's a joke people

I really don't think I need new material, I'll continue to speak out against instigating confrontations and putting innocent people in harm's way because if that gets to be old then we're fucked as a society.

[little frog]

Much like one "listens" to the screaming of a two year old who is desperately crying for attention with no regard for anyone but herself.

nothing at all like that, because you can choose to not listen to this

[Tabbooma]

I stopped by the Boston camp briefly a few times and donated, never hit up Tea Party event. What difference does it make if everyone was white and over 50?

The point is the occupy is a broad group of people all age and race trying to make change or bring light to all kinds of issues... Tabbooma's teaparty experience were a bunch of 50 plus white folks.. definitely not the whole spectum of people in this country and Tabbooma believes much more closed minded folk with a sink or swim mentality that think everyone of color is getting a free ride. They also had an intersting person speaking up in Boston recently, read he does not love all his fellow man.

[-Q-]

if i use one of my floating holidays can i still go?

[Tabbooma]

ask Tabbooma

if i use one of my floating holidays can i still go?

[Joker]

The point is the occupy is a broad group of people all age and race trying to make change or bring light to all kinds of issues... Tabbooma's teaparty experience were a bunch of 50 plus white folks.. definitely not the whole spectum of people in this country and Tabbooma believes much more closed minded folk with a sink or swim mentality that think everyone of color is getting a free ride. They also had an intersting person speaking up in Boston recently, read he does not love all his fellow man.

Broad brush?

Hell, I've seen the closemindedness of pretty much the whole spectrum of people from the Occupy movement with their fuck the police mentality who think every cop is a facist nazi pig who should die.

People of color, people in uniform... which type of human being is it acceptable to direct one's hate toward?

[Tabbooma]

LOL.. That is absurd... Where do you come up with such a conclusion? From a couple videos filming a couple nuckleheads... Go to one of the events and report back when you have a bit more accurate information.

Broad brush? Hell, I've seen the closemindedness of pretty much the whole spectrum of people from the Occupy movement with their fuck the police mentality who think every cop is a facist nazi pig who should die. People of color, people in uniform... which type of human being is it acceptable to direct one's hate toward?

[Joker]

What exactly is inaccurate with this information?


Occupy Oakland Announces New “Fuck The Police” Protest…



Class acts.

(SF Chronicle) — Protesters arrested during an Occupy Oakland rally Saturday said they were abused by police, subjected to illegal mass arrests and suffered a litany of human rights violations while held at two county jails – which only strengthened their commitment.
Organizers held a news conference outside Oakland City Hall on Wednesday to denounce police and restate their goal to move into a vacant building. Members called for another demonstration Saturday night, the latest in what Occupy activists have dubbed “F- the police” rallies, as well as a march to a courthouse Monday.
“Even the people who suffered the most traumatizing experiences are back out here,” said Caitlin Manning, an Occupy Oakland member. “Santa Rita (county jail) spawns rebels. People who go through that don’t come out broken; they come out strengthened.”
Earlier Wednesday, Police Chief Howard Jordan said he had assigned a team of investigators to look into Occupy protesters’ allegations of police abuse.
“We take allegations of abuse seriously,” he said. “Obviously, this is a very volatile situation that needs to be addressed immediately. We are not shying away from these allegations.”

http://weaselzippers...-new-fuck-the-p

[Tabbooma]

LOL.. Looks like you did not read why they are saying F the police...

[gregoir]

I like that Tabbooma states his opinions and talks to people like they are normal people. The problem I have with many people on this board and many people in many movements, including Occupy is their need to attack and belittle others when they do not agree with them. Throw around terms like sheep, communist, conservative, Ron Paul zealot or all the other terms various people like to throw around at each other and I am automatically not listening to you. I'll at least listen to Tabbooma because he talks to me like I am human.

[Joker]

LOL.. Looks like you did not read why they are saying F the police...

LOL...It didn't say why...

[Deadshow Dan]

http://www.takver.co...tory/mayday.htm MAY DAY-THE AUSTRALIAN CONNECTION [color=#000080][font=Verdana, Helvetica][size=1] In 1884, the 1st of May 1886 had been chosen as the day the Federation of Organised Trade and Labour Unions of the United States and Canada had earmarked "as the date from and after which eight hours shall constitute a legal days labour".

Right Australia got an 8 hour day in the 1850s (or something close to that) (though I don't think it was for all professions.

[deadheadskier]

I like that Tabbooma states his opinions and talks to people like they are normal people. The problem I have with many people on this board and many people in many movements, including Occupy is their need to attack and belittle others when they do not agree with them. Throw around terms like sheep, communist, conservative, Ron Paul zealot or all the other terms various people like to throw around at each other and I am automatically not listening to you. I'll at least listen to Tabbooma because he talks to me like I am human.

note to Tabooma

Gregoir is not human

[Tabbooma]

Possibly.... but he is Tabbooma's friend

note to Tabooma Gregoir is not human

[Tabbooma]

LOL...It didn't say why...

[Joker]

These folks are claiming they were abused at the latest Fuck the Police rally, they couldn't really hold THIS rally to protest what happened to them AT this rally, it's an ongoing thing. It seems like they get together weekly/regularly for these demonstrations.

Once again, there are bad cops who do wrong but they aren't all bad.

If you're going to condone these types of regularly scheduled hate marches against an entire group of people based on the actions of a few, you don't really have a leg to stand on if the protesters are all treated roughly and assumed guilty of wrongdoing based on the actions of a few of them.

[Joker]

And yet another civil discussion about important events in all our lives is moved.

[Tabbooma]

LOL... The Vibe police have hit again.. fucking Pigs!

[Joker]

LOL... The Vibe police have hit again.. fucking Pigs!

OCCUPY THE FAMILY FORUM!!!

[Tabbooma]

The F the police rally was spurned from alledged police brutality earlier in the week

Oakland cops toss a flash grenade into a crowd trying to aid a wounded protester, Students gassed in Cali, early days of OWS a group of kids mostly woman get rounded up by cops with orange snow fencing like they were freaken tuna in a net and gassed them.. All galvanizing events, yes there are trouble makers but Tabbooma has seen so many peaceful protests trying to make change and all you do is continue to mock them, which is cool because you have your right to your opinion, a right of free speech. Tabbooma has spoken

These folks are claiming they were abused at the latest Fuck the Police rally, they couldn't really hold THIS rally to protest what happened to them AT this rally, it's an ongoing thing. It seems like they get together weekly/regularly for these demonstrations. Once again, there are bad cops who do wrong but they aren't all bad. If you're going to condone these types of regularly scheduled hate marches against an entire group of people based on the actions of a few, you don't really have a leg to stand on if the protesters are all treated roughly and assumed guilty of wrongdoing based on the actions of a few of them.

[Tabbooma]

LOL..

OCCUPY THE FAMILY FORUM!!!

[Joker]

The F the police rally was spurred from alleged police brutality earlier in the week Oakland cops toss a flash grenade into a crowd trying to aid a wounded protester, Students gassed in Cali, early days of OWS a group of kids mostly woman get rounded up by cops with orange snow fencing like they were freaken tuna in a net and gassed them.. All galvanizing events, yes there are trouble makers but Tabbooma has seen so many peaceful protests trying to make change and all you do is continue to mock them, which is cool because you have your right to your opinion, a right of free speech. Tabbooma has spoken

Are you saying it's acceptable to have regularly scheduled hate marches against an entire group of people because of the wrong actions of a very small percentage of that group? Especially when the group doing the hate marching isn't exactly blame-free in the events leading up to those wrong actions.

And come on, we're just talking about "planned" hate rallies here.

It's not like this hate for all cops thing is anything new and it's not like it isn't pretty much acceptable, even among this community, to use hate-filled insulting terms like pig or nazi or fascist to describe them.

Again, please point out where I've mocked any peaceful rally or any peaceful protesters. I haven't. THAT is exactly what I've been calling for all along. Those people and those events should be commended.

My beef is with those who are instigating confrontations and endangering others. Those who do so are, IMHO, not peaceful

[TakeAStepBack]

Right Australia got an 8 hour day in the 1850s (or something close to that) (though I don't think it was for all professions.

You are correct on the 8 hour day. It was for stone masons and the conditions were due to very different reasons than the labour movement of the May Day orient.

http://en.wikipedia....labour_movement

Workers to Australia initially came from England under what was called Penal transportation, as prisoners under the condition of slavery. Workers were also brought from neighbouring islands and from local areas under similar conditions. The abolition of slavery across the former British Empireaffected Australia too.
Craft unions in Australia began in the early 19th century as craft associations of highly skilled urban workers who sought to combine (form a labour union), to increase their wages and lower their hours.
Conditions of the time were governed by the Master and Servant Act. Employees in Australia in 1840 who left their employment without permission were subject to being hunted down under theBushrangers Act. As little as one hour’s absence by a free servant without permission could precipitate a punishment of prison or the treadmill. In the Melbourne jurisdiction, in the years 1835 to 1845, when labour shortages were acute, over 20% of prison inmates were convicted under the New South Wales Master and Servant Act for offences including leaving place of work without permission and being found in hotels.
On 18 August 1855 the Stonemasons Society in Sydney issued an ultimatum to employers that in six months time, masons would only work an eight-hour day. However men working on the Holy Trinity Church (Garrison Church) in Argyle Cut, and on the Mariners Church, (an evangelical mission to seafarers, now an art gallery and café) in Lower George Street (98-100 George Street), could not contain their enthusiasm and decided not to wait. They pre-emptively went on strike, won the eight-hour day, and celebrated with a victory dinner on 1 October 1855.
On 21 April 1856 Stonemasons and building workers on building sites around Melbourne stopped work and marched from the University of Melbourne to Parliament House to achieve an Eight hour day. Their direct action protest was a success, and they are noted as being among the first organised workers in the world to achieve an 8 hour day, with no loss of pay

There does however, not appear to be any direct correlation between this and the May Day movement that I can find. Either way, thanks, Dan. I enjoy learning new things and this is new to me..

[vic]

Purchased my bus ticket and supposed to arrive at Around 8 am...anybody here close w kawak that can let him know I sent a pm? I know he's not on here too often

Thanks

[PeaceFrog]

but you're listening .. in fact, it seems like it's all you can talk about

I don't think anyone can argue the amount of violence, law breaking and disregard for others from the Occupy protests far exceeds that of the Tea Party protests.

Well, first off, the way this is written you're saying there was more violence at the Tea Party protests than at Occupy protests...

"argue - Give reasons or cite evidence in support of an idea, action, or theory, typically with the aim of persuading others to share one's view."

but secondly,

I don't think anyone can't argue that the Occupy protest far exceeds that of the Tea Party protest in general.

seriously though, what is this the rebirth of mccarthyism where any dissenters are called communists? knowing that you're smarter than that, i can only conclude that you're heckling again, it's a page right out of the PF ron paul's racist newsletter book

I'm glad that I could be the shining example for others not to follow. At least my time spent here was for something.

[Tabbooma]

LOL... Tabbooma just looked up IMHO for the first time, always wondered what that meant.. Thank you Joker In Tabbooma's humble opinion he does not agree with any violence at all but has no problem when people march against police agression, so carrying a sign that says fuck the police is not violent at all, free speech my friend, it is free speech.

Are you saying it's acceptable to have regularly scheduled hate marches against an entire group of people because of the wrong actions of a very small percentage of that group? Especially when the group doing the hate marching isn't exactly blame-free in the events leading up to those wrong actions. And come on, we're just talking about "planned" hate rallies here. It's not like this hate for all cops thing is anything new and it's not like it isn't pretty much acceptable, even among this community, to use hate-filled insulting terms like pig or nazi or fascist to describe them. Again, please point out where I've mocked any peaceful rally or any peaceful protesters. I haven't. THAT is exactly what I've been calling for all along. Those people and those events should be commended. My beef is with those who are instigating confrontations and endangering others. Those who do so are, IMHO, not peaceful

[Tabbooma]

Youhoooo.. Joker, where are you

[Tabbooma]

Tabbooma would never be mean to gregoir. Hope to see you soon buddy

I like that Tabbooma states his opinions and talks to people like they are normal people. The problem I have with many people on this board and many people in many movements, including Occupy is their need to attack and belittle others when they do not agree with them. Throw around terms like sheep, communist, conservative, Ron Paul zealot or all the other terms various people like to throw around at each other and I am automatically not listening to you. I'll at least listen to Tabbooma because he talks to me like I am human.

[Joker]

LOL... Tabbooma just looked up IMHO for the first time, always wondered what that meant.. Thank you Joker In Tabbooma's humble opinion he does not agree with any violence at all but has no problem when people march against police agression, so carrying a sign that says fuck the police is not violent at all, free speech my friend, it is free speech.

I never once said carrying a sign that says fuck the police was violent.

I agree, it's free speech.

It's also hate speech directed at an entire group based on the actions of a small minority in that group.

Having Fuck the Police marches and rallies isn't anymore constructive or conducive to solving the problems between the cops and protesters than a white supremacist march is to calming or resolving racial problems.

All it does is fuel the fires for more confrontations

[vic]

Cops jobs are to uphold laws, even the free speech one that allows banners that say fuck the police, without having a fire to be fueled

[Joker]

Cops jobs are to uphold laws, even the free speech one that allows banners that say fuck the police, without having a fire to be fueled

And?

I agree, it's free speech.

It's also hate speech directed at an entire group based on the actions of a small minority in that group.

Having Fuck the Police marches and rallies isn't anymore constructive or conducive to solving the problems between the cops and protesters than a white supremacist march is to calming or resolving racial problems.

All it does is fuel the fires for more confrontations

[vic]

yeeaaahhhh...no. you're comparing an organization bound by nothing to a police department thataffects everyone and is sworn to protect and serve the public.
the kkk isn't sworn to do anything.
it's no different than, say, having a fuck the fed or fuck the IRS rally. when this "group" you love so much is walking around busting heads and "adding fuel to the fire" while they're supposed to do nothing more than escort and keep the peace. and the few bad apples aren't stopped by the rest, which make the rest assessories to the fact. did any of the other riot cops point out the one who shot scott olsen in the head? no. but there certainly were protesters stepping in trying to stop the people using blac bloc tactic. at least protesters are willing to stand up to their own when they do wrong.


i love the comparisson of protesters to kkk members though. cute.

[Joker]

You keep forgetting they're supposed to uphold the laws as well as to help prevent folks from breaking those laws.

It's very different than that, especially when they back up their hate speech by attacking the police. It's hate directed at a group of people based on the actions of a very small percentage in that group, no matter how much you try to spin it.



Occupy Oakland protester convicted of deterring an officer during Dec. 30 protest


Bay City News Service
Posted: 04/26/2012 07:30:16 PM PDT
Updated: 04/26/2012 07:30:18 PM PDT





OAKLAND -- The trial of an Occupy Oakland protester was convicted Thursday of a felony count of deterring an officer during the performance of his duties but a jury deadlocked on another charge and finding the man guilty of a misdemeanor on a third count.
The Alameda County District Attorney's Office prosecuted 47-year-old Cameron Rose on suspicion of striking Oakland police Officer Patrick Gerrans with a metal folding chair at a protest at Frank H. Ogawa Plaza on Dec. 30. Rose was also charged with resisting arrest on Jan. 22 when authorities tried to arrest him on a warrant for the Dec. 30 incident.
The most serious charge against Rose, who's been in jail in lieu of $130,000 bail since he was arrested, was a felony count of assault with a deadly weapon on a peace officer with force likely to produce great bodily injury.
But jurors on Thursday only convicted him of the lesser included offense of simple misdemeanor assault. Jurors also deadlocked on the misdemeanor resisting arrest charge for the Jan. 22 incident.
Jurors announced their guilty verdict on the deterring an officer felony count on Tuesday. They deliberated for a total of four days.

More
http://www.mercuryne...-officer-during

[vic]

and that guy should go to jail no doubt about it.

still, answer me why the riot cop who shot scott olsen hasn't been arrested, and why all in the area where he would have been visible aren't being arrested as assessories for not outing him. there should be no double standard for cops. period.

[Joker]

I have no idea why. Did they do an investigation? Is it finished?

And using your standard should everyone in the area of where a protester breaks the law be arrested as accessories or is there a double standard for protesters?

[Bone Daddy]

Protestor are not police charged with upholding the law, fellow police officers have the duty to report violations by their fellow police. Even though we al lknow they do not follow this law all the time.

[vic]

I have no idea why. Did they do an investigation? Is it finished? And using your standard should everyone in the area of where a protester breaks the law be arrested as accessories or is there a double standard for protesters?

they have certainly been treated as such

Protestor are not police charged with upholding the law, fellow police officers have the duty to report violations by their fellow police. Even though we al lknow they do not follow this law all the time.

exactly

[Joker]

Hey, I have no problem agreeing that anyone guilty of wrongdoing should be held accountable for their actions.

I've never argued otherwise.


Still, none of that justifies the hate marches and rallies by members of the OCCUPY movement. All they do is widen the divide and escalate the tension between the two groups.

As long as there are no laws broken there shouldn't be any arrests or trouble. If you're going to break the law you should expect to be arrested. To help insure things stay peaceful, if you are arrested you should go peacefully and with no resistance. I'd bet the cops would be just fine with not having to arrest anyone at all.

Again, for the most part the Tea Party protests were peaceful and, for better or worse, they were able to get their message across quite effectively.

Make the job of the cops as easy as possible and you got a better chance of getting them on your side, keep spreading the hate against them and it's just going to result in fighting between members of the 99% and more business as usual for the 1%

[MeOmYo]

police make unjustified arrests all the time. the court proves this by dismissals.

[vic]

police make unjustified arrests all the time. the court proves this by dismissals.

and the majority have been dismissals...and yes i agree that if you are arrested you should go peacefully, but you shouldn't have to fear being beaten or even being arrested just for being a part of a march

i won't argue though that there is an element in oakland making it harder for the 99% there specifically to get their point across, but i would argue that the thuggery of the police force there is perpetuating it

in NYC, the heart of the movement, though, i've seen close to no physical violence from anyone but the police, especially last fall when they were seriously out of control...it does seem to have tamed itself lately though, which is good and leaves me with a good feeling that this tuesday will be mostly peaceful hopefully on both sides

[Joker]

You can argue it but where was/is that "thuggery" during Tea Party protests? Or other peaceful protests?

There's no doubt there hasn't been some out of control cops, especially out there.

[vic]

let's drop the tea party argument...they are protected by money, and besides that, the majority of them are past middle-aged...it would look way too bad to go around beating up senior citizens

[vic]

Nothing on this Vic?

my apologies, i didn't get around to watching this til just now...at least 2 of those kids are fucking douchebags...the only thing i will say is that the title is misleading cause the guy who says let's go get guns immediately says 'just joking', and it's not illegal to own a gun anyway...that kid who points them out individually and calls them pigs is a douchebag no doubt, and i commend the cops there for not responding to him...had i been one of those cops, or even one of the protesters, i would have insulted the kid to the point where he would have been crying with embarassment

but eh whatever there's only like 7-10 people in that group and only 2 or 3 acting like clowns, which is not illegal but clearly embarassing to the group as a whole

[vic]

http://occupywallst....rmitted-may-da/




Solidarity Rally with Tom Morello, Dan Deacon, Immortal Technique, Das Racist, Bobby Sanabria and special guests (permitted)
4–5:30pm, Union Square, Manhattan
sick