4415 replies to this topic

[Deadshow Dan]

seems unAmerican

[jme]

the American league IS unAmerican.

[GoPlastic]

the American league IS unAmerican.

talk amongst yourselves...i'll give you a topic: the American League is neither American, nor a League...discuss!

[In A Silent Way]

I'm going to have to put the radio on tonight. I can't wait to hear Josh & Howie discuss roll call.

[concert andy]

I kind of liek Josh's call. I think he is SO much better than Wayne. I thought Wayne was more of an analyst than a play by play guy, plus his voice annoyed me.

[SunshineDrummer]

the American league IS unAmerican.

Pitchers that take their turn at bat helped build America.

[In A Silent Way]

[gram-man]

Ya know what's sad? The National League is the only place left where they play "real" baseball post HS. College uses the DH.

[In A Silent Way]

I think the minor leagues play real baseball in the National League affiliate parks. At least they used to. When I went to a lot of New Haven Ravens games they were a Rockies AA farm team and the pitchers had to bat.

[gram-man]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure National League affiliates don't have 'em either. But again, they're kinda part of the National League.

[In A Silent Way]

Or as Steve Philips and Omar Minaya would have it, a source of trade bait for overpriced veterans.

[In A Silent Way]

[concert andy]

You can double that.

[GoPlastic]

much better baseball game tonight thus far...Gee with seven strong, and just one lousy pitch else they'd be leading. as it is, down a run in the 8th ain't bad...need the heart of the lineup to do something here.

[GoPlastic]

i meant the Mets lineup, but apparently Granderson heard his number called. Parnell with a dazzling flat fastball and it's 4-2 Yanks just like that. grrr.

[GoPlastic]

it's rough watching Terry have to choose from a trio of .100 hitters with runners at the corners and down to the last out of the ballgame, down two runs. it really is. add to that the pair of .100 hitters already in the starting lineup, and you can see where this team isn't going to win too many more games with the current batting squadron unless they make history a few more times via the no-hitter.

[concert andy]

Ike on base three times was encouraging.

[Kuzsin]

....... having a pitcher hit is a waste of an out and a chance of an injury......let the pitcher concentrate on what he does,...pitch...the dh Makes the game a little exciting by adding a better chance of a hit or home run from occuring ....tradition is such a silly argument....its a business.....
Got my broom out for today...........

[Deadshow Dan]

....... having a pitcher hit is a waste of an out

Learn to hit

and a chance of an injury.....

They are athletes. Play the game!.

let the pitcher concentrate on what he does,...pitch..

and hit. And field

.the dh Makes the game a little exciting by adding a better chance of a hit or home run from occuring

No it doesn't. Oh look at the shiney thing!

....tradition is such a silly argument....its a business.....

Nonsense. Baseball is all about tradition.

[Kuzsin]

Learn to hitThey are athletes. Play the game!.and hit. And fieldNo it doesn't. Oh look at the shiney thing!Nonsense. Baseball is all about tradition.

.....name me pitchers who can hit better then most dh in the american league. How many pitchers hit homeruns?
.....athletes....hockey players are athletes...baseball players get injured so easily and then miss weeks.
.....how many pitchers field well?.....not a lot.
.....watching pitchers bat is boring. No anticipation of a grandslam ...unlike a designated hitter..
......baseball is about money. How foolish.If you were an owner you wouldn't want your pitcher up at bat...you would want him resting every inning...bottom line.

[gram-man]

The same 9 players who to the field should be the ones who come to the plate.

You wanna diminish your game by letting broken down players who can no longer field but can still swing a bat play, that's your decision. Not interested in seeing it in my league.

[Kuzsin]

.....nice 8th for the yanks !......

[gram-man]

AND THE METS TIE IT BACK UP IN THE TOP OF THE NINTH!!

[Kuzsin]

....do to having a designated hitter in the lineup...... ....diminsh the game???...........

[concert andy]

.....name me pitchers who can hit better then most dh in the american league. How many pitchers hit homeruns? .....athletes....hockey players are athletes...baseball players get injured so easily and then miss weeks. .....how many pitchers field well?.....not a lot. .....watching pitchers bat is boring. No anticipation of a grandslam ...unlike a designated hitter.. ......baseball is about money. How foolish.If you were an owner you wouldn't want your pitcher up at bat...you would want him resting every inning...bottom line.

Any or all of that may be true, the owners are the ones who wanted the DH just for these reasons, and to this day people will argue against it because it dumbs down the game. No need for double switches or pinch hitting for the pitcher. The manager barely influences the game

You like DH, I do not.

[Java Time]

the dh takes away from the game plain and simple. there are plenty of pitchers that can hit....its just tougher to get in a groove with 2 maybe 3 at bats a week.

[Kuzsin]

...how does it take away from the game? .....thats what i don't get?.............its not just a game anymore anyway...its also entertainment...and i think the dh makes it more entertaining. What pitchers can really hit beside the few in this article? http://bleacherrepor...national-league

[SunshineDrummer]

...how does it take away from the game? .....thats what i don't get?.............its not just a game anymore anyway...its also entertainment...and i think the dh makes it more entertaining.

And what you said right there is what's wrong with the American League. You want to be entertained, go see a movie. Baseball is a sport.

[concert andy]

...how does it take away from the game? .....thats what i don't get?.............its not just a game anymore anyway...its also entertainment...and i think the dh makes it more entertaining. What pitchers can really hit beside the few in this article? http://bleacherrepor...national-league

I understand your logic, I am just telling you the other side of the argument.

People like the added strategy that having the pitcher bat late in games. There is more flexibility with use of bench players.

Strategy for example, walking the 8 hitter to get to the pitcher in many situations this happens and sometimes forces the mangers hand to pinch hit for his pitcher earlier than they may want. Or the double switch so the pitcher now bats last in the subsequent 9 batters in the line up. None of this happens in the AL.

In the AL where they have the DH the line up is basically who plays most of the game, and bench players become less valuable.

A team like the yankees utilize this to their advantage by allowing for older star players to still play but not have to have the riggers of fielding 6-7 days a week.

Like I said you side on the I love the DH side, where I enjoy the NL game where their is so much more strategy.

More of a chess match, and I enjoy a good game of chess.

[In A Silent Way]

...how does it take away from the game? .....thats what i don't get?.............its not just a game anymore anyway...its also entertainment...and i think the dh makes it more entertaining. What pitchers can really hit beside the few in this article? http://bleacherrepor...national-league

I'm entertained by double switches and pitchers who can lay down a bunt.

[gram-man]

Holy crap! Me and Andy completely agree on something!!

[In A Silent Way]

And, because nobody has said it yet this evening:

[Kuzsin]

I'm entertained by double switches.....

..............

[concert andy]

Holy crap! Me and Andy completely agree on something!!

We agree on most things.

I agree in general about building this team the way alderson is, but I just dont care about "their" money. I want to spend it.

[In A Silent Way]

Yeah, on a drunk-driving clubhouse cancer.

[Count P-Funk]

I'd prefer there was no DH in the American League, but in practice I don't find myself enjoying NL ball way more than AL, and I watch a lot of baseball.
I do love a good double switch though.
Tough loss for the Mets today. They have a knack for punch in the gut losses like that.

[concert andy]

Yeah, on a drunk-driving clubhouse cancer.

My point on the 86 mets and their "problems" was that if the mets team won a world series no one would care what they did in the past, and will always be revered like the 86 mets are today.

I just dont care if the mets paid someone to much money like Oliver Perez. That is your F'n fault, suck it up and make it work, pay some one else.

But in general I do like the this squad, I just think another BIG bat and this team is right there.

PS. Cabrera won a world series in 2003 and was a key cog in 2007's world series appearance and he still on 29.

[In A Silent Way]

[concert andy]

Nope. We paid the devil for the no hitter and now he won't let us win consistently.

[concert andy]

My point on the 86 mets and their "problems" was that if the mets team won a world series no one would care what they did in the past, and will always be revered like the 86 mets are today.

I just dont care if the mets paid someone too much money like Jason Bay. That is your F'n fault, suck it up and make it work, pay some one else.

But in general I do like the this squad, I just think another BIG bat and this team is right there.

PS. Cabrera won a world series in 2003 and was a key cog in 2007's world series appearance and he still on 29.

Fixed that above.

OK. With about a 100 games to go and 61 down, can we talk about the job Sandy has done. For all this lets be patient, let Sandy bring up players drafted by Omar and get the credit for that.

The biggest piece of this team Sandy has his hands in the bullpen. 29th in the league in ERA. AWFUL!

The second piece I blame him for his the horrendous defense this team plays. 27 in MLB and 15th out of 16 in the NL.

For all the knocks on Jason Bay, he hasn't made lots of error blown 13 saves. 13! What is this 2008 again?


I am back on the "This team is not going to win this year". A fundementally flawed team can not win it all. And when 2 of the 4 basics of baseball (field, hit, pitch, and now relief pitching) are the worst in the league, there is a reason, because they stink.

I will still root for them, but after buying in for a bit and thinking this team was one big bat away. I do not think they are.

[GoPlastic]

when your starting shortstop wears #6 because he's the 6th starting shortstop you've had in 60 games, you're bound to be fighting for the league lead in errors. we knew what we were getting with the likes of Murph at 2nd and Duda in RF, our starting CF was injured on opening day...defense comes from having consisently solid defensive players starting 6-7 games/week. it's an issue, but not one we can blame on anyone other than the yearly injury bug which wears orange and blue.

the bullpen was an attempt at a cheap fix in the wake of too many overpaid mistakes out there. after a hot start and some overuse, they look terrible, as is to be expected. again, you use what you've got. by the end of the year, you'll see a markedly improved 'pen as young arms come up for a cup of coffee (or perhaps permanent placement).

you're absolutely correct about that last point - this team isn't winning it all - never was this year. and that's okay. they've proven that when healthy, they're a threat and have a great attitude with never-say-die qualities and the talent to back it up.

my only concern in the immediacy is Ike Davis. it's time to send him down and let him find himself. he can't hit major league pitching right now, and this can't be good for his confidence.

[In A Silent Way]

I really wish they would send Ike to Buffalo to fix whatever is wrong with his swing. It's like watching Bob Weir learn to play slide guitar on stage.

[concert andy]

when your starting shortstop wears #6 because he's the 6th starting shortstop you've had in 60 games, you're bound to be fighting for the league lead in errors. we knew what we were getting with the likes of Murph at 2nd and Duda in RF, our starting CF was injured on opening day...defense comes from having consisently solid defensive players starting 6-7 games/week. it's an issue, but not one we can blame on anyone other than the yearly injury bug which wears orange and blue.

the bullpen was an attempt at a cheap fix in the wake of too many overpaid mistakes out there. after a hot start and some overuse, they look terrible, as is to be expected. again, you use what you've got. by the end of the year, you'll see a markedly improved 'pen as young arms come up for a cup of coffee (or perhaps permanent placement).

you're absolutely correct about that last point - this team isn't winning it all - never was this year. and that's okay. they've proven that when healthy, they're a threat and have a great attitude with never-say-die qualities and the talent to back it up.

my only concern in the immediacy is Ike Davis. it's time to send him down and let him find himself. he can't hit major league pitching right now, and this can't be good for his confidence.

The injury excuse is weak.

Here are the stats on the Mets infield.
Ike 5 errors, Only two players have more errors at 1b. Prince, and Yonder Alonso.
Murph leads all NL 2b with 9, Robert Andino Bal also has 9)
All the SS have 9 errors. Only two players have more with 10 Sterlin Castro and some other bum.
Wright with 5 middle of the pack.

Cheap fixes rarely work. And what big spending did we have in the bullpen other than Frankie? I do not buy that excuse. Young replacements should have been the plan instead of wasting money on Rauch and Rameriez. If you are going to go cheap, then be cheap, dont spend a little and then make excuses for not spending more.

You guys had me buying in for a bit, but stats are stats.

[GoPlastic]

I really wish they would send Ike to Buffalo to fix whatever is wrong with his swing. It's like watching Bob Weir learn to play slide guitar on stage.

is Ike wearing Daisy Dukes to the plate these days?

[GoPlastic]

The injury excuse is weak.

Here are the stats on the Mets infield.
Ike 5 errors, Only two players have more errors at 1b. Prince, and Yonder Alonso.
Murph leads all NL 2b with 9, Robert Andino Bal also has 9)
All the SS have 9 errors. Only two players have more with 10 Sterlin Castro and some other bum.

Cheap fixes rarely work. And what big spending did we have in the bullpen other than Frankie? I do not buy that excuse. Young replacements should have been the plan instead of wasting money on Rauch and Rameriez. If you are going to go cheap, then be cheap, dont spend a little and then make excuses for not spending more.

You guys had me buying in for a bit, but stats are stats.

there's not a readily available stat for it but Ike has probably saved 15 errors on throws from the likes of Wright, the shortstop parade, and Murph. he also flashes a mean glove when chasing down a ball anywhere on the field (and occasionally in the dugout). i'm not worried about Ike's fielding in the least.

Murph - told you, we knew what we were getting. he needs to hit a home run or two, but he's a quality hitter and 2nd base was available. what's scary is he's significantly IMPROVED from last year in the field.

the shortstop parade is replacing Jose fucking Reyes. the Mets have historically had light-hitting/incredible fielding players at 6, so this represents a bit of a change for us, as now we've got six 6s replacing 1 batting champion with a nasty range and arm. so be it.

the injury "excuse" is not an excuse. it's a legitimate reason to see these guys struggling in the field. we expected some gaffes at certain spots i mentioned. we did not expect the shortstop revolving door or the loss of our CF after 6 innings.

[In A Silent Way]

is Ike wearing Daisy Dukes to the plate these days?

Maybe he should, while slinging a pink bat.

[In A Silent Way]

Has anybody seen Baxter since he ran into the wall? Did they just quietly bury him under one of the chop shops across 126th Street?

[concert andy]

there's not a readily available stat for it but Ike has probably saved 15 errors on throws from the likes of Wright, the shortstop parade, and Murph. he also flashes a mean glove when chasing down a ball anywhere on the field (and occasionally in the dugout). i'm not worried about Ike's fielding in the least.

Murph - told you, we knew what we were getting. he needs to hit a home run or two, but he's a quality hitter and 2nd base was available. what's scary is he's significantly IMPROVED from last year in the field.

the shortstop parade is replacing Jose fucking Reyes. the Mets have historically had light-hitting/incredible fielding players at 6, so this represents a bit of a change for us, as now we've got six 6s replacing 1 batting champion with a nasty range and arm. so be it.

the injury "excuse" is not an excuse. it's a legitimate reason to see these guys struggling in the field. we expected some gaffes at certain spots i mentioned. we did not expect the shortstop revolving door or the loss of our CF after 6 innings.

I know Murph is limited in his fielding but can hit. He better start hitting for some power or driving in more runs. With his average at 270 what is the point of having him there if he is a decent hitter and not an above average hitter?

We had injuries last few years and that was the excuse. Have you seen the Phillies the last 3 years? They still won the division going away and they had more injuries than we did (not this year thought). No one cares if you get hurt. Next man up, cant do it? To bad.

Andres Torres is awful. I thought that trade was awful then and I cant wait for him to be gone. Go take your ADD and your Big Giagante and go play for a fan base that does not care as much.

Part of my desire to go out and get a bat is This division stinks and with the Phillies struggling, time to strike and take advantage. That aint happening.

Another part of my fustration is the mets have no position players that will be MLB ready with real potential anytime soon. May be 2-3 years from now, with the 2b who was drafted same year as Ike as the only hope. We have two big pitching prospects and a bunch of guys playing minor league ball. When you build from within, you need players, nit just pitching.

[concert andy]

last 3 seasons all the draft picks and signings have been based on character. it's coming out of every PR guy and draft guy in the place. it's Jerry Reese, it's not Coughlin. i don't disagree that Coughlin would have gone, but he won in Reese's plan, and so he stays. I'm not on a high horse... but then again i don't have to defend the jets.

/football talk.

Character guys = David Diehl

http://www.nydailyne...uspicion-of-dui

[In A Silent Way]

Nieuwenhuis - CF
Valdespin - DH
Wright - 3B
Duda - RF
Murphy - 2B
Davis - 1B
Bay - LF
Thole - C
Quintanilla - SS