44 replies to this topic

[Jwheelz]

whoa

Pilot ejected, looks like everybody's okay but had to be scary...

http://www.huffingto..._n_1408536.html

Navy F 18 Crash: Jet Slams Into Apartments In Virginia Beach, Virginia


A U.S. Navy jet crashed into an apartment complex in Virginia Beach, Virginia, on Friday afternoon. CNN reports that the plane -- an F/A-18D assigned to Strike Fighter Squadron (VFA) 106 -- slammed into the Mayfair Mews Apartment complex, setting several apartments on fire.
The US Navy reported that both pilots ejected from the plane, but are beingtransported to the local hospital for observation. According to the AP, there are no immediate reports of injuries. However, CNN quoted a hospital spokesperson who claimed that at least 2 were hurt.

The burning fuselage of an F/A-18 Hornet lies smoldering after crashing into a residential building in Virginia Beach, Va., Friday, April 6, 2012. (AP Photo)

[nikkiblue]

Thank God for no fatalities.. Hard to believe!

[capt_morgan]

those things are REALLY expensive

[Jwheelz]

if it had actually hit one of the buildings instead of the courtyard it would have been a lot worse... lots of aircraft training happening in that region I believe

[Jwheelz]

those things are REALLY expensive

only $28 million

[JBetty]

That's a lot of $5 bets!

[Jwheelz]

::lostmorethanmyshirt::

[GoPlastic]

based on all the reports i've read thus far - plane came down at high alpha angle, pilots ejected safely, smoke pouring from engines before impact, crash occuring shortly after takeoff - i'm calling bird strike.

you heard it here first.

edited to add: aircraft was jettisoning jet fuel while on the way down...intentional move by the pilots who knew they were without power and not staying up for long.

[Jwheelz]

yeah it would've also probably been worse if there was a full fuel load... damn geese

[GoPlastic]

yeah it would've also probably been worse if there was a full fuel load... damn geese

yeah, they knew the flight was about to end in no good way. i wonder if it's the same sect of terrorist canada geese who brought down the "Miracle on the Hudson" plane? either way, we need to do something about these damn birds and their unAmerican ways of life.

[MeOmYo]

[Jwheelz]

that is so wrong

[GoPlastic]

that's terrible, but i lol'd.

[Lostsailr]

yup

[Java Time]

Geese or budget cuts?

Glad all are OK

[MeOmYo]

I would contribute to the decline of their population if I could figure out how to make them taste decent. There's a shit load of them because they taste like shit.

[moed_over]

those things are REALLY expensive

$55.2 million. Plus the Navy will be responsible for the damage...

[china cat]

$55.2 million. Plus the Navy will be responsible for the damage...

that is fucking sickening.

totally fucking insane.

[capt_morgan]

you can bet heads will rolllolololol for this

[nikkiblue]

yea, someone is getting discharged....

[GoPlastic]

$55.2 million. Plus the Navy will be responsible for the damage...

just as any aircraft owner, private, corporate, or governmental would be responsible for the damage of whatever fell out of the sky onto property not owned by said entity.

that is fucking sickening. totally fucking insane.

you can bet heads will rolllolololol for this

yea, someone is getting discharged....

disagree on all counts. if this plane sucked up a rock or cracked a flock of birds on takeoff, the only action given to the pilots will be a purple heart awarded for their injuries sustained serving during the defense of the country they, you, and i live in. if someone forgot to screw on a gas cap or left a plug in an exhaust nozzle, or intentionally stripped some wires as the plane was cleared to hit the tarmac, then they'll be disciplined appropriately, and can consider themselves lucky not to be court-martialled for murder.

and the "totally fucking sickening" $55M pricetag on a Super Hornet is the price of safety and freedom. as long as there are aggressors (domestic and/or foreign) who are intent on the death of American citizens and our way of life, i'll be all-too-happy to pay my relatively small share of the cost of these machines, and to pay the brave/brilliant men and women who put their lives on the line to fly them. our weapons are expensive because they work, and the defense industry is one where staying ahead of everyone else is imperative. a sad reality, but not a new one.

i hate war as much as most of us do, but until the other 7 billion residents of this planet agree with us, i offer my heart and recognize the thanks deserved to our servicewo/men who are willing to do what it takes to allow me to write on a public internet forum about a jamband festival (and just about anything else) without fear of repraisal or censorship.* be glad you don't live in one of the dozens of war-torn nations where military service is mandatory for every citizen...and tip your cap to those who choose this career so that we don't have to.

our soldiers and those who work directly and indirectly to support their efforts

*vibeguides moving threads does not apply.

[capt_morgan]

suite melt braheem

[Jwheelz]

$55 million is nothing compared to the over $1 billion cost of a single B-2 bomber.... you better bet they are extremely careful about what happens around those planes... but if it was a bird strike I hope they can do something to manage the birds better around that air base because it makes a lot more sense to pay a few thousand dollars for those noisemakers versus millions of dollars for a new airplane...

Not to turn this into a politics thread, but I'm not sure projecting our power overseas always does keep us safer, if anything it probably puts us more at risk when we go about it the wrong way (note: gross oversimplification). However it probably does make a lot of sense to run air patrols around our coastlines, which is one of the big things that these aircraft are used for if I understand correctly.

But I digress, I really don't want this thread to get moved (at least not because of me)

[GoPlastic]

suite melt braheem

whatever you say, Augie. i know where my bread's buttered, and the very fact that we can discuss the role of our military and war freely in public means that i won't sit silent when people degrade their role in our lives.

[GoPlastic]

$55 million is nothing compared to the over $1 billion cost of a single B-2 bomber.... you better bet they are extremely careful about what happens around those planes... but if it was a bird strike I hope they can do something to manage the birds better around that air base because it makes a lot more sense to pay a few thousand dollars for those noisemakers versus millions of dollars for a new airplane... Not to turn this into a politics thread, but I'm not sure projecting our power overseas really does anything to keep us safer, if anything it probably puts us more at risk when we go about it the wrong way. However it probably does make a lot of sense to run air patrols around our coastlines, which is one of the big things that these aircraft are used for if I understand correctly. But I digress, I really don't want this thread to get moved

yes, we lost a B-2 in Guam due to a sensor malfunction on takeoff some years back...that was a huge black eye on the Air Force.

as for birds, if that Hornet hit a flock at 1,000 feet, a half-mile past the runway, there's simply no way to control it.

and i wasn't talking about projecting our power overseas. i never supported the bullshit in Iraq, i don't support our remaining in Afghanistan 11 years after the fact. but i do support letting Iran (a legitimate threat whose sick regime makes daily threats against our allies and free people everywhere) know that we're better-equipped to destroy them than they are to destroy us. a good military has that effect on most governments, and having a pair of carrier fleets in the Gulf is not a bad thing.

[capt_morgan]

whatever you say, Augie. i know where my bread's buttered, and the very fact that we can discuss the role of our military and war freely in public means that i won't sit silent when people degrade their role in our lives.

and i dont because i said an f-18 is really expensive? ok i guess

[Jwheelz]

yes, we lost a B-2 in Guam due to a sensor malfunction on takeoff some years back...that was a huge black eye on the Air Force. as for birds, if that Hornet hit a flock at 1,000 feet, a half-mile past the runway, there's simply no way to control it. and i wasn't talking about projecting our power overseas. i never supported the bullshit in Iraq, i don't support our remaining in Afghanistan 11 years after the fact. but i do support letting Iran (a legitimate threat whose sick regime makes daily threats against our allies and free people everywhere) know that we're better-equipped to destroy them than they are to destroy us. a good military has that effect on most governments, and having a pair of carrier fleets in the Gulf is not a bad thing.

I edited the hell out of my posting while you were replying

I'm glad that you were just talking about actual defense, there are a lot of people that use that same argument but when they do it they're talking about Iraq and Afghanistan. And I have no problem with protecting our power in that way, keeping carrier groups in volatile regions makes sense given our general mission of supporting our allies in various regions. I was just trying to clarify my understanding of what you meant by keeping us safe.

And unfortunately 9/11 pretty much showed the rationale needed to maintain air patrols over the US.

[capt_morgan]

I edited the hell out of my posting while you were replying I'm glad that you were just talking about actual defense, there are a lot of people that use that same argument but when they do it they're talking about Iraq and Afghanistan. And I have no problem with protecting our power in that way, keeping carrier groups in volatile regions makes sense given our general mission of supporting our allies in various regions. I was just trying to clarify my understanding of what you meant by keeping us safe. And unfortunately 9/11 pretty much showed the rationale needed to maintain air patrols over the US.

no understanding necessary...some people come in here...read 1 or 2 posts and decide to attack everyone...nothing new

[Jwheelz]

::attacks Augie::

[GoPlastic]

no understanding necessary...some people come in here...read 1 or 2 posts and decide to attack everyone...nothing new

fortunately, i don't think any of those people are involved in this thread, so the discussion has stayed lucid and intelligent.

BTW here's that B-2 crash. skip to about 2:00 to watch the accident. fucked up, when computers fly the planes...:

[beerzrkr]

There are a bunch of folks freaking out right now. Nothing like the boys in suits walking in and taking all of the log books and documentation for that aircraft. The ground crew is going nuts! Did I sign everything,..did I miss anything,.. Been there, done that.

[Jwheelz]

thank god for the ejection seat!

[capt_morgan]

those planes are so unstable its a miracle they fly at all

[capt_morgan]

There are a bunch of folks freaking out right now. Nothing like the boys in suits walking in and taking all of the log books and documentation for that aircraft. The ground crew is going nuts! Did I sign everything,..did I miss anything,.. Been there, done that.

seriously...they are just looking for a place to point the finger

[GoPlastic]

those planes are so unstable its a miracle they fly at all

hence the computers running it off the pitot tube sensors. crazy, but it works. except that one time, of course.

seriously...they are just looking for a place to point the finger

by "point the finger" you mean "document the cause of the accident in an attempt to decrease the probability of it happening again", and that's exactly right. happens the same way in civil aviation. flying will always be inherently dangerous, because when something goes wrong, there's little room for error!

[beerzrkr]

they want to know what happened and prevent it from happening again. The squadron is in safety stand down and checking everything. The FAA is digging in the books and interviewing the aircrew.


The PR and AME shops just got two cases of beer, for each guy, for the seats and shoots that just saved 2 lives...

[capt_morgan]

flying will always be inherently dangerous, because when something goes wrong, there's little room for error!

i understand

[capt_morgan]

people are just looking for reasons to damn the military these days...luckily noone died. otherwise i doubt even a reasonable avian excuse would be enough to call off the dogs.

[Jwheelz]

I do think perhaps flight patterns that take heavily fueled and possibly armed military jets over residential areas might deserve another look

[beerzrkr]

Pitot only does PSI for altitude and only accurate for above 1000ft. a radar altimeter is used for under 1000. You also have the INU (inertial navigation unit) which the new ones use ring laser gyros. No moving parts = less to fail. everything has at least 1 back up, navigation and control especially.

[beerzrkr]

I was once an AT2 beerzrkr

[capt_morgan]

they should just ban birds...think about the childern

[Java Time]

just as any aircraft owner, private, corporate, or governmental would be responsible for the damage of whatever fell out of the sky onto property not owned by said entity.



disagree on all counts. if this plane sucked up a rock or cracked a flock of birds on takeoff, the only action given to the pilots will be a purple heart awarded for their injuries sustained serving during the defense of the country they, you, and i live in. if someone forgot to screw on a gas cap or left a plug in an exhaust nozzle, or intentionally stripped some wires as the plane was cleared to hit the tarmac, then they'll be disciplined appropriately, and can consider themselves lucky not to be court-martialled for murder.

and the "totally fucking sickening" $55M pricetag on a Super Hornet is the price of safety and freedom. as long as there are aggressors (domestic and/or foreign) who are intent on the death of American citizens and our way of life, i'll be all-too-happy to pay my relatively small share of the cost of these machines, and to pay the brave/brilliant men and women who put their lives on the line to fly them. our weapons are expensive because they work, and the defense industry is one where staying ahead of everyone else is imperative. a sad reality, but not a new one.

i hate war as much as most of us do, but until the other 7 billion residents of this planet agree with us, i offer my heart and recognize the thanks deserved to our servicewo/men who are willing to do what it takes to allow me to write on a public internet forum about a jamband festival (and just about anything else) without fear of repraisal or censorship.* be glad you don't live in one of the dozens of war-torn nations where military service is mandatory for every citizen...and tip your cap to those who choose this career so that we don't have to.

our soldiers and those who work directly and indirectly to support their efforts

*vibeguides moving threads does not apply.

Amen brother

[GoPlastic]

I do think perhaps flight patterns that take heavily fueled and possibly armed military jets over residential areas might deserve another look

NAS Oceana - US Navy purchased the land and started construction in 1940. the community grew quickly around the airfield, which brought jobs, economic security, and much life to the otherwise sleepy vacation town. in 2005, BRAC commission mandated that the city purchase and condemn over 3,000 living units directly off the flight paths (AKA "crash zones") used by more than 219,000 individual flights yearly. the city has been slow to respond, and local beauracracy/red tape means that plenty of these homes are still where they ought not to be. there's your problem.

growing up on Long Island in the 1980s, the sound of military jets flying overhead was a weekly occurence. most of the Navy's 3rd-generation aircraft were built in Bethpage and Calverton. Air Force planes were built into the 1970s in Farmingdale. they tested, serviced, and occasionally crashed planes here. BUT with huge swatches of undeveloped land (and cemeteries) surrounding these facilities, these accidents rarely claimed any innocent bystanders. i miss the sight of the odd F-14 screaming overhead at altitude, cranking on the loud pedal, and the people of Long Island miss the work which these companies provided for our citizens.

I was once an AT2 beerzrkr

thank you for your service, berrzrkr!

Amen brother

[Jwheelz]

so it's the residential areas not being properly condemned and dealt with... I understand enough about aviation to know that you can't really substantially adjust takeoff and approach paths beyond certain limits because the airplane's operating envelope (stall speed, glide slope etc.) won't allow it to be done safely. I can't believe there's 3000 units in the crash zones... the problem is what do you do with the people in those units I guess. Interesting