How does this work, a couple Hail Mary's and all is forgiven, come on in?
Can Catholics lacking in compassion get into heaven?
Started by
TEO
, Mar 28 2012 09:14 PM
26 replies to this topic
#5
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- VibeTribe
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Posted 28 March 2012 - 10:48 PM
There's a lot of answers to this from different types of Catholics. Some of the most olde-worlde traditionalists would say nobody ever went to heaven before Jesus died and opened it up, until then all the worthy souls were in "Limbo" awaiting the grand opening of heaven. And also that anyone who hasn't accepted the holy trinity of father, son and holy spirit cannot get into heaven under any circumstances.
I was raised in the Jesuit tradition of Catholicism, which is considerably more thoughtful and intellectual in its approach to these matters. But even they have differing beliefs on this. However, most would say that worthiness of your soul is what determines your eligibility for heaven, regardless of your religion or beliefs. Forgiveness can patch some of the holes you created in life, if you truly are repentant, but you can't be Hitler and then just say a few Hail Marys.
I was raised in the Jesuit tradition of Catholicism, which is considerably more thoughtful and intellectual in its approach to these matters. But even they have differing beliefs on this. However, most would say that worthiness of your soul is what determines your eligibility for heaven, regardless of your religion or beliefs. Forgiveness can patch some of the holes you created in life, if you truly are repentant, but you can't be Hitler and then just say a few Hail Marys.
#7
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- VibeTribe
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Posted 28 March 2012 - 11:00 PM
and then there's the exceptions to the the exceptions, like Pontius Pilate who "washed his hands" of a complicated decision rather than take responsibility. Supposedly he went to Limbo for all eternity because he wasn't bad enough for hell, or good enough for heaven, even with time served in Purgatory. Limbo is sort of like having your soul permanently suspended in a state of nothingness.
#11
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- VibeTribe
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Posted 28 March 2012 - 11:07 PM
That does not sound like an incentive for people to work on becoming better people during this lifetime.
The church has changed their views on this often to suit the times. When Luther showed up, Catholics needed a way to prevent defections to the various Protestant factions so the view they put forth was that only Catholics could get into heaven. But they have always had their own interests at heart, not the interests of making bad people into good people. Religion was about land, money, and power for centuries before it became about missionary work and feeding the hungry.
#12
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- VibeGuide
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- 15,977 posts
VibeGuide
Posted 28 March 2012 - 11:09 PM
The church has changed their views on this often to suit the times. When Luther showed up, Catholics needed a way to prevent defections to the various Protestant factions so the view they put forth was that only Catholics could get into heaven. But they have always had their own interests at heart, not the interests of making bad people into good people. Religion was about land, money, and power for centuries before it became about missionary work and feeding the hungry.
(((Controlling the masses)))
#13
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- VibeTribe
- 8,451 posts
Posted 28 March 2012 - 11:16 PM
Now that you've got me started. . .
The most annoying part (to me anyway) about being raised Catholic was this holy spirit/holy ghost thing. Supposedly you have to believe in such a thing to be Catholic, and the services validate it many times with the "sign of the cross" to represent father, son and holy spirit. Yet for all those years of Sunday school and church services, I still have no clear understanding of what a holy ghost actually is.
And in England, as a Catholic you're told that no protestant religion (what Americans would call "Christians") has any sort of validity whatsoever because they whole reason they exist in the first place is so that Henry VIII could get a divorce.
The most annoying part (to me anyway) about being raised Catholic was this holy spirit/holy ghost thing. Supposedly you have to believe in such a thing to be Catholic, and the services validate it many times with the "sign of the cross" to represent father, son and holy spirit. Yet for all those years of Sunday school and church services, I still have no clear understanding of what a holy ghost actually is.
And in England, as a Catholic you're told that no protestant religion (what Americans would call "Christians") has any sort of validity whatsoever because they whole reason they exist in the first place is so that Henry VIII could get a divorce.
#15
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- VibeTribe
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Posted 28 March 2012 - 11:21 PM
but something we can all agree on. . . the reign of Mary I, known as "Bloody Mary" although brutal in burning so many thousands of protestants at the stake for forsaking the true religion, was worth every charred corpse to give us that delicious vodka drink! 
#16
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- VibeGuide
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- 15,977 posts
VibeGuide
Posted 28 March 2012 - 11:22 PM
Now that you've got me started. . .
The most annoying part (to me anyway) about being raised Catholic was this holy spirit/holy ghost thing. Supposedly you have to believe in such a thing to be Catholic, and the services validate it many times with the "sign of the cross" to represent father, son and holy spirit. Yet for all those years of Sunday school and church services, I still have no clear understanding of what a holy ghost actually is.
And in England, as a Catholic you're told that no protestant religion (what Americans would call "Christians") has any sort of validity whatsoever because they whole reason they exist in the first place is so that Henry VIII could get a divorce.
Interesting, what is their take on Hinduism and Buddhism and such?
#21
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- VibeTribe
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Posted 28 March 2012 - 11:50 PM
In spite of the resentment I feel towards the church for the lifetimes of guilt they instill in all followers (original sin, are you kidding me?) I do have a lot of good things to say about them too.
For one, as compared to American "Christians" Catholics tend to be thoughtful, less absolute, more flexible and open to the interpretation of their practitioners instead of taking every passage in the bible literally. Even though Jesus founded the religion and is the son of God, there is nothing mysterious and exalted about him and he's treated like a historical figure with special powers. You'll never hear a Catholic ask if you have "embraced Jesus Christ as your savior" or other (IMO) complete and utter babble like that.
For one, as compared to American "Christians" Catholics tend to be thoughtful, less absolute, more flexible and open to the interpretation of their practitioners instead of taking every passage in the bible literally. Even though Jesus founded the religion and is the son of God, there is nothing mysterious and exalted about him and he's treated like a historical figure with special powers. You'll never hear a Catholic ask if you have "embraced Jesus Christ as your savior" or other (IMO) complete and utter babble like that.
#24
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- VibeTribe
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Posted 29 March 2012 - 10:43 AM
Teo here is a link to what catholic theology defines as necessary virtues for a well ordered life that leads to heaven
http://catholiceduca...ics/ap0017.html
a little dense at times , but word that are well chosen
http://catholiceduca...ics/ap0017.html
a little dense at times , but word that are well chosen
