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#51 unbroken_chain

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Posted 29 March 2012 - 01:10 PM

And we have at least one witness who saw that unarmed kid sitting on top of Zimmerman and beating him. That right there opens the door for Zim to take action to protect himself.



Link?

I've heard George Zimmermans FATHER make that claim and others, none of which are even remotely accurate and clearly bullshit as the new video shows.

Do we think the fact that Zimmermans daddy is a former JUDGE has anything to do with the bullshit feast being fed to us?


enjoy the FOX :lol: news
http://www.examiner....s-for-son-video

#52 MeOmYo

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Posted 29 March 2012 - 01:14 PM

becuase someone hits you, does not mean you can shoot them.

I understand that all of this is OPINION as none of us have all the facts. IMO, the facts that I know lead me to believe an armed overzealous power freak killed an unarmed kid. check his arrest history, domestic abuse, fighting with police. this dude was trouble and IMO, always looking for a fight.

#53 Joker

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Posted 29 March 2012 - 01:17 PM

well, you see, one there are effectively only two people who could tell the true story, and one of them is shot dead by the other one, that sure does make it tricky doesn't it.

I'd say the only spinning going on in respect to the Martin's is how their son ended up in a hole after a walk to the store cuz some fat fucking jerkoff cop wannabe.


Do you think George Zimmerman is being Honest about the events that occurred? I'd bet my left arm he is a lying sack of shit* ( I beat off righty so forget that)

*proven

I can't say if he's being honest or not. His friends have said he's in hiding and pretty shook up from what happened.

The fact that we're being shown pictures of a much younger Trayvon next to a mug shot of Zimmerman shows me there's some out there attempting to slant public opinion in a certain direction.

For that reason alone I wouldn't even attempt to try and jump to any type of conclusion that could result in a loss of limb


WTMFI

#54 Joker

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Posted 29 March 2012 - 01:19 PM

Innocent until proven guilty, yes.
But he killed a man and hasn't even been arrested.
Betcha if he was black and Trayvon wasn't he would have been locked up immediately.

That's quite possible but it has no bearing on whether or not he's guilty

#55 Mind Left Body

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Posted 29 March 2012 - 01:20 PM

I'm not familiar at all with Fla. gun law (I'm not really a gun fan at all) In this case I believe I read that he was legally permitted to be armed and carrying a weapon.

My understanding is the area was having problems with break-ins and that was a reason for the neighborhood watch. I'm not a fan of arming neighbors and letting them do what they want but again my understanding is all that is legit down there whether we agree with it or not.


I'm not against a neighborhood watch. Not at all. I can understand if there had been recent break ins in the area. My thought on it is this...observe and report. Don't get involved. You are a citizen. Not part of the police force. While I don't know the facts, I'm hard pressed to believe that Zimmerman was in enough danger to use the gun. IMHO he should be arrested and the situation should investigated. Why is he not in custody now? Has this been investigated as far as it will go? I don't know the answer to these questions...just asking.

#56 Mind Left Body

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Posted 29 March 2012 - 01:22 PM

becuase someone hits you, does not mean you can shoot them.

I understand that all of this is OPINION as none of us have all the facts. IMO, the facts that I know lead me to believe an armed overzealous power freak killed an unarmed kid. check his arrest history, domestic abuse, fighting with police. this dude was trouble and IMO, always looking for a fight.


This. I couldn't agree more...

#57 orion

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Posted 29 March 2012 - 01:32 PM

typically, you apply for a pistol permit through the state, they do their backround checks and either approve or deny your application.


If only they could do foreground checks.

#58 Joker

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Posted 29 March 2012 - 01:32 PM

Link?

I've heard George Zimmermans FATHER make that claim and others, none of which are even remotely accurate and clearly bullshit as the new video shows.

Do we think the fact that Zimmermans daddy is a former JUDGE has anything to do with the bullshit feast being fed to us?


enjoy the FOX :lol: news
http://www.examiner....s-for-son-video





Witness: Martin attacked Zimmerman

http://www.myfoxtamp...merman-03232012

#59 unbroken_chain

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Posted 29 March 2012 - 01:36 PM

yep. FOX :lol:

#60 Joker

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Posted 29 March 2012 - 01:36 PM

becuase someone hits you, does not mean you can shoot them.

I understand that all of this is OPINION as none of us have all the facts. IMO, the facts that I know lead me to believe an armed overzealous power freak killed an unarmed kid. check his arrest history, domestic abuse, fighting with police. this dude was trouble and IMO, always looking for a fight.

And that's just it, none of our opinions mean a thing when it comes to whether or not he's guilty.

#61 Joker

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Posted 29 March 2012 - 01:39 PM

I'm not against a neighborhood watch. Not at all. I can understand if there had been recent break ins in the area. My thought on it is this...observe and report. Don't get involved. You are a citizen. Not part of the police force. While I don't know the facts, I'm hard pressed to believe that Zimmerman was in enough danger to use the gun. IMHO he should be arrested and the situation should investigated. Why is he not in custody now? Has this been investigated as far as it will go? I don't know the answer to these questions...just asking.

I have no answers either. If someone attacked you and you fought back and injured or killed them would you think you should be arrested and locked up?

What if it was a woman who was attacked and she killed a guy attempting to rape her? Should she be arrested and locked up?

#62 Joker

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Posted 29 March 2012 - 01:41 PM

yep. FOX :lol:

And??

Are you suggesting that Fox is making up a witness? Or that his story is no good because FOX reported it?

#63 JBetty

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Posted 29 March 2012 - 01:42 PM

That's quite possible but it has no bearing on whether or not he's guilty



He killed a man under suspicious circumstances and should have been immediately arrested and fully investigated, like most people would have been.
Why this did not happen is the crux of the outrage.

#64 Joker

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Posted 29 March 2012 - 01:43 PM

He killed a man under suspicious circumstances and should have been immediately arrested and fully investigated, like most people would have been.
Why this did not happen is the crux of the outrage.

I have no idea why it wasn't done. See post #61

#65 Mind Left Body

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Posted 29 March 2012 - 01:47 PM

I have no answers either. If someone attacked you and you fought back and injured or killed them would you think you should be arrested and locked up?

What if it was a woman who was attacked and she killed a guy attempting to rape her? Should she be arrested and locked up?


Depends on the situation. If I used a knife to defend myself against someone attacking me with bare hands...well I would think I would be arrested for that. The female scenario doesn't apply here so let's leave that alone. My point is Zimmerman is an adult and one expect him to use better judgement than a 17 yr old. Given Zimmerman's history it just looks like he was looking for a fight. Report and stay away. You really think the kid saw him reporting his activity to the cops and decided to assult Zimmerman? I just don't see it happening that way.

#66 unbroken_chain

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Posted 29 March 2012 - 01:49 PM

And??

Are you suggesting that Fox is making up a witness? Or that his story is no good because FOX reported it?

And??

Are you suggesting that Fox is making up a witness? Or that his story is no good because FOX reported it?


I'm suggesting that it was predictable.

#67 JBetty

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Posted 29 March 2012 - 01:50 PM

I have no answers either. If someone attacked you and you fought back and injured or killed them would you think you should be arrested and locked up?

What if it was a woman who was attacked and she killed a guy attempting to rape her? Should she be arrested and locked up?



If circumstances are not clear and it appears that I might have been the aggressor, then yes. Arrest me.


Women and rape have nothing to do with this conversation.

#68 unbroken_chain

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Posted 29 March 2012 - 01:58 PM

distract, spin, distract, dance around fact.... pattern noted.



So geeez, if some dude is following me, subsequently STOPS me without proper authority.... and disallows me from free passage; and I try to leave and he stops me... I don't have the right to be on the winning end of a scuffle without winding up with HOT lead in my chest... .ok, good to know.... love this planet.

oh wait, but maybe its all my fault. it must be. What gives me the right to question those who infringe upon me?

#69 Joker

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Posted 29 March 2012 - 01:58 PM

Depends on the situation. If I used a knife to defend myself against someone attacking me with bare hands...well I would think I would be arrested for that. The female scenario doesn't apply here so let's leave that alone. My point is Zimmerman is an adult and one expect him to use better judgement than a 17 yr old. Given Zimmerman's history it just looks like he was looking for a fight. Report and stay away. You really think the kid saw him reporting his activity to the cops and decided to assult Zimmerman? I just don't see it happening that way.

By the same logic one could argue that with Tray's history he was high on drugs and attacked Zim.

Again, we don't know for sure that Zimmerman didn't stay away and that it was Trayvon that attacked him. It's also possible Tray saw him on the phone, thought he was calling the police, panicked and attacked Zim in an effort to stop him.

We just don't know

#70 Joker

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Posted 29 March 2012 - 01:59 PM

distract, spin, distract, dance around fact.... pattern noted.

Dance around what fact?

#71 Joker

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Posted 29 March 2012 - 02:01 PM

If circumstances are not clear and it appears that I might have been the aggressor, then yes. Arrest me.


Women and rape have nothing to do with this conversation.

If we're going to start arresting people for defending themselves, woman being raped would certainly fall into the conversation

#72 JBetty

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Posted 29 March 2012 - 02:02 PM

If we're going to start arresting people for defending themselves, woman being raped would certainly fall into the conversation



But that's just the thing, as you have pointed out.
We don't know that he was just defending himself.

#73 MeOmYo

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Posted 29 March 2012 - 02:04 PM

Joker, your argument is that we don't know anything. Everyone has expressed that we don't know all the facts yet you just keep repeating it.

It's a discussion based on what we do know and opinion. Are you saying we should not think about it, discuss it and sweep it under the rug?

#74 Mind Left Body

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Posted 29 March 2012 - 02:04 PM

By the same logic one could argue that with Tray's history he was high on drugs and attacked Zim.

Again, we don't know for sure that Zimmerman didn't stay away and that it was Trayvon that attacked him. It's also possible Tray saw him on the phone, thought he was calling the police, panicked and attacked Zim in an effort to stop him.

We just don't know


Tray's history? What history? And why would Tray care if Zim was calling the police if he was coming from the store with iced tea and candy. Makes zero sense.

And please don't say Tray's bookbag had traces of we@d in it. Based on that logic 99% of this board has a bad "history".

#75 unbroken_chain

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Posted 29 March 2012 - 02:04 PM

Dance around what fact?


an unarmed teenage boy minding his own business was shot and killed by an overzealous moron.

#76 Mind Left Body

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Posted 29 March 2012 - 02:06 PM

If we're going to start arresting people for defending themselves, woman being raped would certainly fall into the conversation


In this instance...your female/rape comparison does not apply here at all. We are talking male on male. Let's stay on the topic.

#77 Joker

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Posted 29 March 2012 - 02:15 PM

But that's just the thing, as you have pointed out.
We don't know that he was just defending himself.

Joker, your argument is that we don't know anything. Everyone has expressed that we don't know all the facts yet you just keep repeating it.

It's a discussion based on what we do know and opinion. Are you saying we should not think about it, discuss it and sweep it under the rug?

What I'm saying is that, in this country, I'm pretty sure it's still a case of he's innocent until proven guilty and right now there's no proof he's guilty of any crime.

#78 MeOmYo

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Posted 29 March 2012 - 02:16 PM

By the same logic one could argue that with Tray's history he was high on drugs and attacked Zim.

Again, we don't know for sure that Zimmerman didn't stay away and that it was Trayvon that attacked him. It's also possible Tray saw him on the phone, thought he was calling the police, panicked and attacked Zim in an effort to stop him.

We just don't know


that is just ridiculous. does Martin have a history of getting high and attacking people? feel free to post this history.

#79 JBetty

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Posted 29 March 2012 - 02:19 PM

What I'm saying is that, in this country, I'm pretty sure it's still a case of he's innocent until proven guilty and right now there's no proof he's guilty of any crime.



Proof of guilt is not required for an arrest, you know that.
Suspicion of guilt is enough.
There is enough suspicion surrounding this case for an arrest.
That has not happened and people want answers.

#80 Mind Left Body

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Posted 29 March 2012 - 02:21 PM

http://www.nydailyne...ticle-1.1052433

The video shows Zimmerman wasn't hurt when brought to the police station.

#81 Joker

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Posted 29 March 2012 - 02:25 PM

Tray's history? What history? And why would Tray care if Zim was calling the police if he was coming from the store with iced tea and candy. Makes zero sense.

And please don't say Tray's bookbag had traces of we@d in it. Based on that logic 99% of this board has a bad "history".

For all we know Tray could have been casing out the area when he went to the store and got nervous when he saw Zimmerman.

I'm not sure, did this happen on the street or was he cutting through people's property?

That was exactly what I was talking about, my only point being that what happened before isn't evidence of what happened now. It doesn't tell us which of them approached the other or who threw the first shot. I'd imagine there are enough things that could (and probably will) be dug up about Tray that have no bearing on this other than to make him look guilty.

In this instance...your female/rape comparison does not apply here at all. We are talking male on male. Let's stay on the topic.

How does it not apply if we're talking about arresting someone who hurts/kills an attacker? We can't hace one set of rules for woman and one for men can we?

#82 unbroken_chain

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Posted 29 March 2012 - 02:29 PM

common sense > rhetoric.

#83 Joker

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Posted 29 March 2012 - 02:30 PM

Proof of guilt is not required for an arrest, you know that.
Suspicion of guilt is enough.
There is enough suspicion surrounding this case for an arrest.
That has not happened and people want answers.


I'm pretty sure suspicion of guilt isn't enough to arrest someone.

I would like answers too but I don't think arresting Zimmerman because you think he might have done something wrong is going to get us any

#84 Mind Left Body

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Posted 29 March 2012 - 02:31 PM

For all we know Tray could have been casing out the area when he went to the store and got nervous when he saw Zimmerman.

I'm not sure, did this happen on the street or was he cutting through people's property?

That was exactly what I was talking about, my only point being that what happened before isn't evidence of what happened now. It doesn't tell us which of them approached the other or who threw the first shot. I'd imagine there are enough things that could (and probably will) be dug up about Tray that have no bearing on this other than to make him look guilty.
How does it not apply if we're talking about arresting someone who hurts/kills an attacker? We can't hace one set of rules for woman and one for men can we?


Battery and traces of we@d in a bookbag can't compared. Not at all. Our history follows us whether we like it or not so it does have some meaning here.

Stop trying to use the male/female comparison. There was no rape here.

#85 JBetty

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Posted 29 March 2012 - 02:36 PM

I'm pretty sure suspicion of guilt isn't enough to arrest someone.

I would like answers too but I don't think arresting Zimmerman because you think he might have done something wrong is going to get us any



Really? The guy kills a boy under suspicious circumstances and that's not enough for an arrest?

#86 Slave Self Promoted

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Posted 29 March 2012 - 02:39 PM

not even enough to render the area a crime scene and do a proper investigation. nothing to see here, folks. we'll just wash away any evidence of wrongdoing and go about our business as though nothing happened at all.

#87 Joker

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Posted 29 March 2012 - 02:39 PM

http://www.nydailyne...ticle-1.1052433

The video shows Zimmerman wasn't hurt when brought to the police station.

No, that video doesn't show he wasn't hurt. Hell he could have a broken rib and the video wouldn't pick it up.

Also at about the 50 second mark you can see the cop behind him looking at the back of his head where he was supposedly injured. Isn't it possible he was looking at that injury? I can't think of another reason he'd take what looks like at least 5 seconds to stare at it , and actually move in closer to it in order to get a better look

#88 JBetty

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Posted 29 March 2012 - 02:42 PM

:lol:

He didn't say he had a broken rib, he said he had a broken nose.
Cops reported bloody head and nose and grass stains - the video shows none of this when he was brought in.

#89 unbroken_chain

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Posted 29 March 2012 - 02:44 PM

:insertsillycarnivalmusichere:


my bet is the cop was looking at the back of his head and thought to himself...

"this guy is full of shit, he don't have a mark on him.... here we go... welp, I'll just play along"

#90 vic

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Posted 29 March 2012 - 02:46 PM

maybe zimmerman is telling the truth

what's that old saying? tell it to the judge?

that's the problem here...he's innocent until proven guilty, but it's up to a jury to decide.

and even if trayvon threw the first punch, i'd say i'm not sure if i would have done anything different if i was being STALKED.

and how the FUCK is this guy allowed to go into HIDING? if he fears for his life that badly, he should turn himself in so his boys in the police department can watch his back.

#91 Joker

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Posted 29 March 2012 - 02:48 PM

Battery and traces of we@d in a bookbag can't compared. Not at all. Our history follows us whether we like it or not so it does have some meaning here.

Stop trying to use the male/female comparison. There was no rape here.

I know it can't compare as I said it was meant to point out there will be stuff dug up from Tray's history too ithat paints him in a bad light. Will that change your opinion of what happened in this case?

As long as it's going to be suggested that he should be locked up for defending himself from an attack the sex of either of them does not make a bit of difference. Let's say the woman was simply attacked rather than attacked and raped. My point is we can't start locking people up for defending themselves and so far there's no evidence showing us that Zimmerman wasn't defending himself from an attack

#92 vic

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Posted 29 March 2012 - 02:48 PM

:lol:

He didn't say he had a broken rib, he said he had a broken nose.
Cops reported bloody head and nose and grass stains - the video shows none of this when he was brought in.



who said he had a broken rib? :lol:

does anyone have the link to the video? i pulled it off ABC but their goddamn logo covers him like 90% of the time

so, the usual suspect is on the usual side in this thread, eh? shocking :rolleyes:

#93 vic

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Posted 29 March 2012 - 02:51 PM

I'm not against a neighborhood watch. Not at all. I can understand if there had been recent break ins in the area. My thought on it is this...observe and report. Don't get involved. You are a citizen. Not part of the police force. While I don't know the facts, I'm hard pressed to believe that Zimmerman was in enough danger to use the gun. IMHO he should be arrested and the situation should investigated. Why is he not in custody now? Has this been investigated as far as it will go? I don't know the answer to these questions...just asking.



that was ALWAYS the policy with neighborhood watch

#94 unbroken_chain

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Posted 29 March 2012 - 02:54 PM

and so far there's no evidence showing us that Zimmerman wasn't defending himself from an attack



EXCEPT FOR THE CLEAR FACT THAT IS WAS HE WHO PURSUED TRAYVON MARTIN FROM THE MOTHERFUCKING ONSET

*evidenced by his own calls to police

#95 JBetty

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Posted 29 March 2012 - 02:54 PM

As long as it's going to be suggested that he should be locked up for defending himself from an attack the sex of either of them does not make a bit of difference. Let's say the woman was simply attacked rather than attacked and raped. My point is we can't start locking people up for defending themselves and so far there's no evidence showing us that Zimmerman wasn't defending himself from an attack




And there's no evidence that he WAS defending himself from an attack.
But there is a dead kid and plenty of circumstantial evidence for an arrest to launch a full investigation in order to determine guilt or innocence.
That's how the system works.

#96 Joker

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Posted 29 March 2012 - 03:06 PM

:lol:

He didn't say he had a broken rib, he said he had a broken nose.
Cops reported bloody head and nose and grass stains - the video shows none of this when he was brought in.

Yeah, just because we can't see it on a grainy video from a distance doesn't mean it's not broken, blood could have been wiped from his head and we wouldn't notice a gash and there's no way of telling for sure from that video if there are grass stains or not.

I can't see all those cops involved turning a blind eye and lying in their reports knowing there's video of the guy being taken into the station.

I'd want to see those reports as well as any reports from a doctor/hospital along with mug shots and better video before sentencing the guy for murder

#97 MeOmYo

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Posted 29 March 2012 - 03:11 PM

Yeah, just because we can't see it on a grainy video from a distance doesn't mean it's not broken, blood could have been wiped from his head and we wouldn't notice a gash and there's no way of telling for sure from that video if there are grass stains or not.

I can't see all those cops involved turning a blind eye and lying in their reports knowing there's video of the guy being taken into the station.

I'd want to see those reports as well as any reports from a doctor/hospital along with mug shots and better video before sentencing the guy for murder


dude, you're out to lunch

nobody wants to sentence him for murder now. JUST FUCKING ARREST HIM AND START DUE PROCESS.

#98 Mind Left Body

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Posted 29 March 2012 - 03:11 PM

Zimmerman was told not to persue Martin by the police. Why did he continue? He could have gone home and none of this would have ever happened. It's pretty clear to me.

#99 JBetty

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Posted 29 March 2012 - 03:13 PM

dude, you're out to lunch

nobody wants to sentence him for murder now. JUST FUCKING ARREST HIM AND START DUE PROCESS.



Yup - that's all this is about.

Really doesn't seem like too much to ask.

#100 Mind Left Body

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Posted 29 March 2012 - 03:14 PM

dude, you're out to lunch

nobody wants to sentence him for murder now. JUST FUCKING ARREST HIM AND START DUE PROCESS.


Bingo! I'm not saying he is a murderer. I just want to see him arrested and this investigated fully. Not to much to ask given that a 17 yr old is dead by his hand.