96 replies to this topic

[Eddie Z]

Today, on my last day of my 3 week vacation, I took the very first step to initiate my Kitchen renovation project: I stacked my living room furniture into my guest room!!

Not necessarily a huge step in itself, but it's the first step of 10,000 more. This will allow me to slowly transition some kitchen stuff into the living room, where I'll try to set up temporary kitchen quarters. This will also allow some workspace.

This will take every bit of 4-5 months at the rate that I'll be able to work on this. I dread this.

As of this moment, my heart's not really into this renovation since I have some other big issues on my plate. But I know once I get started and get into it, I'm sure I'll develop a head of steam.

Check back for updates and pics.

[seany]

Good luck! Based on other projects you've posted, I'm sure it will turn out great! For your sanity, you night consider getting a zip-wall system so you can zipper in and out of the kitchen and keep the dust out of the rest of the house. Some Home Depots have them (or something similar) and they're not that expensive.

[Eddie Z]

Good luck! Based on other projects you've posted, I'm sure it will turn out great! For your sanity, you night consider getting a zip-wall system so you can zipper in and out of the kitchen and keep the dust out of the rest of the house. Some Home Depots have them (or something similar) and they're not that expensive.

Good advice. It's already on the list. Thx.

[fire_rocket]

Is this a home renovation or a business kitchen renovation>

Home renovations SUCK the big one.

[Eddie Z]

Is this a home renovation or a business kitchen renovation>

Home renovations SUCK the big one.

It's a home renovation. Has nothing to do with the catering business...

The catering business actually can't operate from my home anymore, per the Dept of Health. I have to re-establish facilities in some warehouse or something. I doubt I'll be able to open this season. The catering business refacilitation is where I should be putting my resources right now. But this kitchen project has been on my mind for years already, and may help me in the bigger picture (If I have to sell the house).

[Eddie Z]

Preliminary work continues. I keep putting one foot in front of the other, but I'm proceeding at a snail's pace. I feel rather overwhelmed. Not quite sure what to do first.

Being a very organized person, it's very disconcerting to have spent the greater part of a week purposely DISorganizing the entire house in support of this project....and knowing that things will be this way for quite some time. Added complexity comes from trying to establish a minimalistic temp kitchen in the living room, and attempting to choreograph the demo such that I minimize the amount of time I'm truly without a kitchen.

Anyway, today I'm going thru the kitchen cabinets. It's striking how much stuff is completely unused stuff that if I was to throw it right in a dumpster, I'd never even miss it. As an example: Do I really need 20 wine glasses? I think my mom used ONE glass during her visit a year ago.

Anybody need a working refrigerator in a few months?

[Eddie Z]

The first three images are the original kitchen. The last 2 pics are the temporary kitchen set up in the adjacent living room. Somewhat of a milestone today with the establishment of the "Hobo Kitchen". In a way, kind of like camping in my own house! (although the inconvenience is already driving me mad! LOL).

This sets the stage for the destruction party. Cabinet removal, expose studs, flooring removal, soffet removal. Although I have a permit which allows a cosmetic demo w/no structural changes, I need to submit the real construction permits before I can really go forward. I also need to get serious about ordering some materials. Long lead item is cabinetry, which is 6 weeks.

Anyway, happy to say we're in motion.

[TEO]

This should be interesting, what size is the kitchen space?

[Eddie Z]

The Kitchen is 9'x9', the Dining room is 9'x9'. I've made the decision to tile both rooms... Unfortunately, there's a downside to this. The Dining Room would now be considered an "Eat In Kitchen", which has negative real estate market connotations.

Sometime this week, I'm going to have the kids over for a destruction party. There's nothing like seeing wallstuds, to motivate me to get things moving.

I'm going to try to figure out how to construct a temporary sink in the kitchen to get me thru the next few months. Something that I can attach and dissattach with relative ease. Was actually thinking to use the existing sink on the cabinet, but use flexible hose for the water source and drain. I'd just sawzall the cabinet down to a manageable length.

[Lazy Lightning]

It's a home renovation. Has nothing to do with the catering business...

The catering business actually can't operate from my home anymore, per the Dept of Health. I have to re-establish facilities in some warehouse or something. I doubt I'll be able to open this season. The catering business refacilitation is where I should be putting my resources right now. But this kitchen project has been on my mind for years already, and may help me in the bigger picture (If I have to sell the house).

Have you looked into whether there are commercial kitchen facilities you can rent time in? I went to a business development workshop last week and they had an accredited kitchen for people who are have food businesses. It was a really great set-up!

Anyways, just a thought in case you haven't investigated that sort of thing already. - good luck with the renos!

[fire_rocket]

Looking good so far. I've been there before! It sucks but will be worth it in the end.

Whatever you do DON'T get rid of the disco ball.

[Eddie Z]

Looking good so far. I've been there before! It sucks but will be worth it in the end.

Whatever you do DON'T get rid of the disco ball.

No intentions to! That back window catches the morning sun. What's not shown in that view is 3 disco balls, like 5 or 6 crystal balls with lots of facets cut into it. And a few other hanging prismy things. I swear, when the sun hits this stuff, my kitchen lights up like a Concert. Kind of kewl, especially if I happen to STILL be up from a concert at that time! ;-)

[Eddie Z]

Today was a productive day on the project. We removed the cabinets, countertop, oven, linoleum floor, and Dining room carpet. And I re-established the Hobo Sink in the kitchen to limp me along.

I decided not to remove the drywall or soffit just yet. Mainly so heat doesn't escape into the attic. The drywall destruction can be done in a couple of weeks, when the electrician steps in. Same goes for the other layer of flooring. I can do that just before the tiling project commences.

The surprise of the day was seeing that the hardwood floor under the carpet is in very very good shape. I might have to rethink my flooring choices, in light of that.

I *must* get my permits in place, which I've been dragging my feet on. That might actually hold up progress soon...

here's some pics.

[Jwheelz]

you're basically at that blank slate stage... once the drywall and soffit come out and the electrical rough-in happens you'll be on the constructive side of this project

[Smiles]

Will you be performing any controlled burns?

[Spiderweb]

Looking good so far. I've been there before! It sucks but will be worth it in the end.

Whatever you do DON'T get rid of the disco ball.

I was thinking the same about the disco ball when I was reading the thread

[PieDoh]

The old carpet looks like it made you decide to do the project
In the first place. Good luck. I have a tile cutter if you need one.:-)

[Eddie Z]

The old carpet looks like it made you decide to do the project
In the first place. Good luck. I have a tile cutter if you need one.:-)

Thanks!

The disgusting carpet, especially on the main traffic path, was just one of several "triggers". It looks even more disgusting outside in the sun. I can't wait till the garbagemen take it away, because I don't want the neighbors seeing what foulness existed in my house! LOL.

The others:
1.) The inside roof of the oven was corroded to the point that if I was baking something, I could heat a saucepan on the top of the oven without powering up the stovetop.
2.) The plastic shelving of the refrigerator broke, and it would cost a few Hundred $$ to get replacements.
3.) The Linoleum floor was horribly yellowed in the main traffic path.

Mainly it was time... I should've done it a few years ago. NOT doing the project started to make me feel kind of shitty about myself..

[Eddie Z]

Will you be performing any controlled burns?

The guy down the street got a new kitchen...and everything else new too, when his house burned to the ground. I'm kind of jealous actually. LOL. Thankfully nobody was hurt.

[vinandtonic]

I like your cabinets. Are those real wood? Are you keeping them?

When we bought our house I hated our cabinets b/c they were dark wood...now I like them since we've painted the walls a different color and replaced the countertops and sink. We had a guy come out and talk to us about refacing them but he said they were actually in fantastic condition and we should leave them alone.

[Eddie Z]

The cabinets are in the garbage truck, as of an hour ago. Gone. All new cabinets coming, and I'm going with a much lighter color. "Maple Cashew". Basically, the entire room will be new..

[MeOmYo]

What are you doing for counter tops? I've had poly plywood for a while and have been set on making concrete. Now, I think I'm going with wood, like a butcher block style.

[Eddie Z]

Since there's a real possibility of selling the place, sooner or later, I'm going with granite countertops. That's more or less the "expectation" on the real estate market.

I was giving great consideration to "going green" with this project, specifically with recycled glass countertops. http://www.vetrazzo.com/eng The hippy Deadhead inside me wanted to go in this direction, but I decided against it.

[moed_over]

What are you doing for counter tops? I've had poly plywood for a while and have been set on making concrete. Now, I think I'm going with wood, like a butcher block style.

We bought these butcher block style countertop pieces from IKEA and a buddy helped me put them in.

http://www.ikea.com/...ducts/40057853/

Used a sealer on top that he recommended, salad bowl finish.

http://www.amazon.co..._pr_product_top

Really cheap ($800 with a new stainless steel sink), and came out awesome!

[Eddie Z]

Progress is somewhat slow, but I've been getting "ducks in line" all week. Got the permits in on Friday, which is a 2 week process. I opted to NOT go with an electrical contractor who wanted $3750.00. I'll do this job for $1500.00. (Electrician Buddy will coach me thru anything I don't have a great handle on). I've also been dialing in the colors of the granite/cabinets/backsplash/tile/etc. Lots of random info gathering too.

Once the permits are in place, things will go forward more quickly. Electrical will be the first major job to tackle. Mainly so I can get the walls buttoned up as soon as possible. Once that milestone is reached, I can put in the tile floor.

I'm doing well with cooking in the hobo kitchen. Tonight was the most complicated meal yet. Grilled Salmon, Grilled Eggplant and Grilled Portobello Mushrooms on a borrowed George Foreman Grill. And some white rice on a propane powered camper stove. Sets me up for easy eatin' all week.

[Deadshow Dan]

My next project is the dreaded kitchen project. You could say I've started as first thing to do is clean out a space downstairs where my temp. kitchen will be.

But I have quite a bit of planning to go, along with maybe some financing, depending on that plan.

So, this post marks this thread for me

Have you already drawn out your plan?

[Deadshow Dan]

Regarding countertops, I know a guy who made really nicely finished concrete countertops. Inexpensive and came out beautiful and unique.

[Eddie Z]

My next project is the dreaded kitchen project. You could say I've started as first thing to do is clean out a space downstairs where my temp. kitchen will be.

But I have quite a bit of planning to go, along with maybe some financing, depending on that plan.

So, this post marks this thread for me

Have you already drawn out your plan?

I went to Lowes where they had a design specialist work with my room dimensions. Home Depot has a similar service. And many of your kitchen cabinet supplier places can offer similar. Best place to start is make a good sketch of your room dimensions, and copy it 50 times for sketching purposes.

[Deadshow Dan]

Yeah, I have it in a piece of software and will be going to all those places, along with video of the room

[Eddie Z]

Some forward motion on the project to report: In anticipation of all my permits being issued in the next few days, I popped the walls open to start the electrical work. Taking down the drywall was fairly easy, but messy. Taking down the soffit was a pain in the ass. But I got it mostly done. Just have to cut back the drywall edges a little bit tomorrow, to make clean edges for the eventual installation of the new drywall. My electrician buddy comes on Monday to help me develop the plan.

Exposing the walls showed me that I have far more wiring work to do than I planned. Prior wiring made use of the open space of the soffit, but that won't be there anymore. Those wires will have to be rerouted, but some will have to be replaced anyway, so maybe it's not so bad.

Once electric is in and the walls buttoned back up, focus will shift to flooring.

[Deadshow Dan]

Exposing the walls showed me that I have far more wiring work to do than I planned.

Presumably you planned that there would be more than you planned

[Eddie Z]

Presumably you planned that there would be more than you planned

There's a saying about projects of this sort that whatever your schedule and budget is, triple it and it'll be about right.

Now that I'm a bit more experienced at these things, doubling it is about right.

[Eddie Z]

Well, I wished I could say I got more accomplished in the last couple of days, but there is some forward motion to report..

Primary focus is on the electric right now. I was able to dismantle some of the old work, and start placing boxes and some rough wiring. I thought I had a plan. Then I thought I had a better plan. But nothing like actually placing boxes and studying the available wiring paths to make me consider a whole new slew of changes. If I can only stop the flood of new ideas! LOL. But I have to trust the process. The more I think thru things, the better it'll be. Can't be in a rush.

On the bright side, I haven't shocked the living shit out of myself, started any fires, nor have I hurt myself too bad (other than the roofing nail I hit with my bare scalp while up in the attic).

I hit a few brick walls and code questions to pose to my Electrician buddy. Questions on the best approaches to wire runs. What needs to be grouped together on certain circuits. And some Q's having to do with how much of the old work can still be used. Some of the old wires/switches/boxes are quite a pain in the ass to work with, especially in the interior wall.

I started to formulate a lighting plan too, which I need to nail down to really nail down the electrical rough. That keeps changing too. I'm sticking little bits of colored tape on the ceiling to mark out possible plans. I have to be careful, too much lighting and my whole kitchen becomes an "Easy-Bake oven".

At least I got the ceiling drywall back up. was loosing a ton of heat into the attic for a week or so.

[Eddie Z]

A somewhat strong weekend on the project. Still working on the Electric and Lighting, but I'm happy to say that I have a plan! (last weekend, I wasted a lot of time trying to develop that plan). I've gotten 3 recessed lighting cans in, I have 6 more to go. The trick there is to develop a recessed lighting placement plan that does what it needs to do in the kitchen AND can actually be installed. There's lots of conflicts in the attic, which influence placement. The Central AC air handling unit has been my enemy since day one. I also identified and installed the path for the new wiring runs to the breaker panel (installed an exterior conduit). Although it doesn't seem so noteworthy, I also resolved the troublesome re-route of the electric range big fat 6-3 cable....which was a total fooking nightmare. The kitchen is mostly wired, the majority of the remaining electrical work left is up in the attic.

I also in a ready state to finish the plumbing work (fitted the copper pipe for the refrigerator feed, but don't want to sweat it in till after the old subfloor comes up, or else it's something that I'd have to tiptoe around). Oh yeah, and I ordered the replacement back door.

Overall, I'm not impressed with my rate of work. If I was paying my ass, I'd have fired myself already.

[Eddie Z]

Very slow going, but I'm happy to say that today I completed the electrical "rough". Will call my electrician buddy who'll do a pre-inspection inspection. Man, what an effort that was. Working in the attic is it's own particular brand of hell. Dusty, dirty, hot.. and I banged my head more than a few dozen times. On the bright side, I didn't fall thru the ceiling! LOL.

Next Up: The rear door replacement. Then after the electrical inspection, the drywall work. Then it's floor time.

[Eddie Z]

I thought I'd drop in with a Kitchen Project Update...

Two weekends ago, i yanked out the rear door and replaced it with a new door. A bit of a fiasco installing it. On a humurous note, it was a bit like a "3 Stooges" episode, except I was the only Stooge. The door accidentally fell out of the frame, hit the top of the deck steps, and slid down 'em crashing onto a cement pad at the bottom of the steps. Not once but TWICE!!!! What a moron!!! The wood brick molding got pretty banged up but was replaceable. The door became pretty out of whack, but I installed in anyway. Unfortunately when i was trying to install it, when the door was plumb and square to the frame, it didn't work. When the door was shimmed to work, it wasn't really square to the frame. But I put it in anyway. The door works perfectly and the out of plumbness is very minor. The worst part is the outdoor trim. Totally looks horrible on the left side. Haven't figured out how to resolve it either, but I need to do it quickly since I want to get the storm door in. I have some wider molding which I can cheat to mask the problem, but it'll always catch my eye.

The plumbing inspection went well. The electrical inspection last Wednesday didn't go as smoothly, I got gigged on 2 things which were easily resolved. 1.) The wires were poorly placed on the studs...I had to rip up some tacks and remount the wires more centrally on the stud in plastic "stackers". 2.) I didn't realize that all the wires and splices needed to be completely made up...I just thought all that had to be done was the ground connections. WRONG! So that took a few more hours to resolve. He comes back Tuesday and it should go well. Then the building inspector can be scheduled. He hopefully allow me to proceed to drywall.

Other: The lighting is all in and ready to go. Lots of materials onhand, ready to go: Drywall, Spackle, the new storm door, all of the subfloor materials (hardybacker, plywood), the tile/grout/adhesive, the few things I need for the plumbing to the new refrigerator. Earlier this week, the gas line was run to the house. I'm going to visit Lowes tommorrow to revist the cabinetry plan. I hope to make that order very soon (6 week lead time). I don't want to trigger that to soon though, or I'll be stumbing over cabinets.

So in general, it's going well, but still not as fast as i'd have hoped.

[TEO]

Nice progress!

[pixiebug]

i love Eddies projects!

[Eddie Z]

Pardon the poor (before) picture. I never took a real before picture..had to search the files for one.


Some success to report this weekend. A buddy suggested I resolve the trim problems with the J channel from vinyl siding. It really worked pretty well, and allowed me to mask the unsighlty uneven gaps. This finally let me move forward with the storm door installation. That took far longer than I expected it to. I figured on 2 hours... 6 hours later, it was in! The only aggravation was having the wind blow the box of specialty tiny screws off the picnic table, onto the deck. Of course, every last small important screw fell thru the cracks of the deck to underneath (leaves/mud), and vanished. So there I was under the deck, face down in muckety muck with an unsuccessful search. I ended up sorting thru my collection of random hardware to resolve.

The electrical rough has been approved, the plumbing rough has been approved. Awaiting the bldg inspector's visit Monday, which should result in approval to do the drywall. The "new" plumber paid a visit today (gas line installation). (The old plumber couldn't quite figure out that I expect my phone calls to be replied to, therefore i decided to move on). The cabinet installer did his first measurement today.

Things are beginning to move on this project finally.

[PieDoh]

Ahh, Spring....when a young man's heart turns to fancy....cupboards?

[Eddie Z]

The drywall went up this weekend, I'm now on the third coat of spackle. What an unholy foooking mess I've made of the spackling work. LOL. Especially when working on the ceiling patches... On several occasions, big splats of the mud landed right on my face, or arms...like I got crapped on by a Prehistoric Bird. Keeping with the bird analogies...it also looks like a flock of seagulls crapped all over the inside of my house. A true annoyance is the ceiling drywall patches are thinner that the original ceiling drywall. (forgive me if I actually believed that 1/2" drywall would actually be 1/2"!!! It's not!) On the bright side, cabinets will cover up 85% of the sins. Still, I'm being an idiot here...spending more time than I should making the walls perfect, even though I know it won't matter. I think I should keep my day job. Anybody can smear spackle up, but only artists can make it look perfect with 1/10th the work.

The ductwork for the oven hood vent was it's own little fiasco. Sort of a leap of faith to set the height of the ductwork in the wall, in hopes that it will meet up properly with the hood vent.... Something tells me that the fiasco isn't over with that. At one point, the whole stack slipped out of my hands while I was in the attic. The resulting fall, crushed the snot out of the 90 degree angle.

The cabinet order has been placed. Delivery is in 6 weeks. So I hope to have the drywall project complete, the subfloor replaced, the tile down, and the gas line installation all done before the cabinets come in. Sort of aggressive scheduling at my pace.

[Eddie Z]

I'm in hell. Today, while resolving one mistake (mistake #1), I discovered another major mistake (mistake #2).

Mistake #1
I put a recessed light into the ceiling for over the sink. I placed that light much too close to the wall. So close that the light's trim would actually touch the wall. So today, I set off to correct it. I was going to move it directly out from the wall about 2", which other than a drywall patch, would have been no big deal.. Something told me to check the dimensioned sketches of the cabinets... That's when it hit me...

Mistake #2
I made the assumption early on that the drainpipe sticking out of the wall was going to be in line with the center of the sink. I built the entire electrical plan around that assumption. Upon a much closer inspection of the cabinet dimensions, I found out that the centerline of the sink will actually sit 6" to the left of the drainpipe.

The ramifications:
Mistake #1 became 10x more complicated to fix, since the light didn't only shift out, but also to the left. The complexity is the presence of a ceiling joist, which makes it a trick to fix. But this fix is well underway, I have a plan. No Biggie.

But the real headache is I'll have to open up a freshly drywalled wall to move some electrical boxes from one side of the stud to the other. Not as easy as it sounds, since the wiring was already set. To do this absolutely right, this means I have to open a huge part of the wall. This will set me back at least a week to correct, since I'll have more time consuming drywall spackle work to do.

One of those electrical boxes has to move. It's the one that will feed the dishwasher. The box will fall directly behind the intersection of two cabinets, becoming inaccessible. The other is near the countertop. Doesn't really have to move, but it's a bit of a cosmetic flaw. (just a bit too close to the sink).

I'm fighting with other areas of the project too. My flooring project became a bit more complex due to having to cut back some hardwood flooring in the Dining room.

Man, I really was moving forward nicely too. I was going to prime/paint this weekend, and start the flooring. Looks like that's gonna be a majorly delayed now.

[August West]

no one will ever again look at your spackle as closely as you look at now.

[pixiebug]

oy...thats annoying! hope these are the only ooopsies you encounter, Eddie!

[moed_over]

So which phase of the project would you consider yourself to be in?

Six Phases of a Project
1. Enthusiasm
2. Disillusionment
3. Panic
4. Search for the Guilty
5. Punishment of the Innocent
6. Praise and Honors for the Non-Participants

[Eddie Z]

I'm on Phase 4 right now. "Search for the Guilty". I was looking to blame somebody for the screwup, but realized it was only myself to blame!

Actually, the good news is that this recovery seems to be going well. The drywall patch for the ceiling light is near completion, second coat of spackle just went on... I just have to cut the new light in and reconnect the electic.

I cut open the wall and moved the dishwasher outlet to the other side of the stud. The drywall patch is back up, taped, spackled and now drying. Relatively painless and straightforward. It'll all be hidden behind cabinets, so cosmetically it doesn't matter.

I called my electrician buddy about the countertop outlet nearest the sink. I found out I don't really have to move it, per the code anyway. It's next to the sink, but not directly behind it. So it doesn't violate the code. I just need to figure out if it's worthwile to do the wall surgury for cosmetic purposes. All things considered, the outlet is very conveniently placed!!! (I'd do all my small appliace work right there). Close to saying "F-it!"

[Eddie Z]

i swear, I spread so much spackle around during the last week or so, it's bugging me out.

Case in point: I put cream cheese on my bagel this morning, and...well, it looked like spackle being spread!
Similar reaction to the hummus I spread on a wrap last night.

Today, I took my road bike out for my standard 24 mile loop. I'm even looking at the filled potholes differently!

I'm having dreams at night of walls upon walls full of popped nails!

I'm fucking loosing it.

[Jwheelz]

you didn't try to sand your bagel or anything did you?

[Eddie Z]

you didn't try to sand your bagel or anything did you?

No but as the dust has begun to pervade the entire house, to include the kitchen utensils in the othe room...everything's beginning to taste like spackle.

[PieDoh]

Mmmmmmm..........Spackle!....

It'll seem worth it when it's done.