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UC Davis Protestors Pepper Sprayed by Police


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#151 PeaceFrog

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Posted 21 November 2011 - 11:33 PM

it was my understanding that you thought "nudging" students with a baton was the least amount of force necessary to move students (like they did at Berkeley)

but now, you say that using pepper spray is the least amount of force necessary.

So, which is it?

#152 DancingBearly

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Posted 21 November 2011 - 11:37 PM

it was my understanding that you thought "nudging" students with a baton was the least amount of force necessary to move students (like they did at Berkeley)

but now, you say that using pepper spray is the least amount of force necessary.

So, which is it?


Whichever is the best defense of cops actions?:dunno:

#153 PeaceFrog

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Posted 21 November 2011 - 11:39 PM

Whichever is the best defense of cops actions?:dunno:


apparently, Joke thinks the cops can do whatever they want without following any certain protocol. (if they feel threatened)

#154 Joker

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Posted 21 November 2011 - 11:41 PM

Your understanding of things around here can't be trusted.

If you'd care to show me where I said that I'd be happy to address it

#155 DancingBearly

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Posted 21 November 2011 - 11:44 PM

it was my understanding that you thought "nudging" students with a baton was the least amount of force necessary to move students (like they did at Berkeley)

but now, you say that using pepper spray is the least amount of force necessary.

So, which is it?


Jack care to answer?

#156 Julius

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Posted 21 November 2011 - 11:45 PM

Posted Image


Stole this for my fb. Hope ya don't mind. :lol:

#157 Joker

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Posted 21 November 2011 - 11:48 PM

If I said that it would probably because of the circumstances surrounding the use of either tactic, I don't remember stating flat out that the baton is less forceful than pepper spray. But I'm thinking I never said that and it's just another case of someone putting words in my mouth

#158 PeaceFrog

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Posted 21 November 2011 - 11:50 PM

I'm asking you right now. Which do you think is less forceful - the baton or the pepper spray?

#159 Joker

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Posted 21 November 2011 - 11:52 PM

I'm asking you right now. Which do you think is less forceful - the baton or the pepper spray?

And I'm asking you to back up your shit

#160 PeaceFrog

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Posted 21 November 2011 - 11:58 PM

what do I have to back up? I'm asking you a question.

would you rather be sprayed in the face with pepper spray, or jabbed in the stomach with a baton?

It's just a simple multiple choice question. There's no reason for me to go dig up your old posts.

#161 Julius

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Posted 22 November 2011 - 12:19 AM

I'm asking you right now. Which do you think is less forceful - the baton or the pepper spray?


I've been pepper sprayed, full blast to the face, willingly as part of self defense course. They do this for 2 reasons: first to show everyone how totally useless the stuff is for self-defense, and second so everyone can see how they react to it. Everyone reacts with a different level of severity and your tolerance of spicy foods is apparently a good indicator of how severely you will react.

For me, it was no big deal, for others, they had a paramedic with liquid antacid standing by just in case.

#162 PeaceFrog

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Posted 22 November 2011 - 12:23 AM

I like spicy food. Maybe pepper spray isn't so bad after all.

Posted Image

#163 china cat

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Posted 22 November 2011 - 12:36 AM

I like spicy food. Maybe pepper spray isn't so bad after all.

Posted Image


:lol:

#164 Lazy Lightning

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Posted 22 November 2011 - 12:58 AM

No, in this case there's no doubt this is on the kids.


Wow.

Just... Wow.

#165 wonka

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Posted 22 November 2011 - 01:10 AM

Here is another thing the officers could have tried.

Walk up to three or four protesters in the path. Calmly let them know that they need to open to let your group pass. Inform them that if they don't move, that they will be charged with multiple counts (one for each officer) of felony kidnapping charges, which could put them away for life plus. Tell them to consider it for 2 minutes. Then form up into marching formation and in two minutes walk towards those 4. If they move, you leave, if not, those 4 get pulled out by the officers and arrested.
They could even set up some barricades afterwards to ensure the walking path stays open like the ones they have been so fond of here in NY

#166 DancingBearly

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Posted 22 November 2011 - 01:19 AM

I can't no way defend the actions of these officers. I don't hate law enforcement either. I've been to the High Sheriff's picnic when we had a sheriff dept. in CT. My brother in law was a New Britain police officer. One my best friends in the service was a MP. I actuality like good cops but bullies and thugs no!

#167 deadheadskier

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Posted 22 November 2011 - 01:26 AM

Here is another thing the officers could have tried.

Walk up to three or four protesters in the path. Calmly let them know that they need to open to let your group pass. Inform them that if they don't move, that they will be charged with multiple counts (one for each officer) of felony kidnapping charges, which could put them away for life plus. Tell them to consider it for 2 minutes. Then form up into marching formation and in two minutes walk towards those 4. If they move, you leave, if not, those 4 get pulled out by the officers and arrested.
They could even set up some barricades afterwards to ensure the walking path stays open like the ones they have been so fond of here in NY


nope, Jack is the expert, you have to blast the entire line in the face. That's what's safest for the officers. :heart: And if no pepper spray is handy, well, jabbing someone in the gut with a baton as hard as you can is also acceptable.

obey!!!!

I'm through with his bullshit in this thread though. When the cops get fired following the investigation, I'll come back to let him know his opinion is flat out wrong.

#168 In A Silent Way

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Posted 22 November 2011 - 02:49 AM

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#169 Joker

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Posted 22 November 2011 - 03:26 AM

Wow.

Just... Wow.

Both sides fucked up beginning with the protesters. Form your "protest line" when they're coming in not when they're leaving with prisoners. Don't encircle them, that allows the "we were trapped" excuse. Let them take you peacefully with no resistance unless you want the situation to escalate because it will escalate. Cops should have limited their spraying to as few individuals as possible and only after giving them warning with a chance to move peacefully and let them know what they were being sprayed with when it's possible.

#170 Joker

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Posted 22 November 2011 - 03:36 AM

Here is another thing the officers could have tried.

Walk up to three or four protesters in the path. Calmly let them know that they need to open to let your group pass. Inform them that if they don't move, that they will be charged with multiple counts (one for each officer) of felony kidnapping charges, which could put them away for life plus. Tell them to consider it for 2 minutes. Then form up into marching formation and in two minutes walk towards those 4. If they move, you leave, if not, those 4 get pulled out by the officers and arrested.
They could even set up some barricades afterwards to ensure the walking path stays open like the ones they have been so fond of here in NY

That's along the lines of what I'm saying, warn them, let them know what's coming and give them the option to move. Although I think the spray is a better option than going in and trying to rip them out.

There's no doubt the folks on the sides didn't need to be sprayed

#171 Joker

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Posted 22 November 2011 - 03:40 AM

nope, Jack is the expert, you have to blast the entire line in the face. That's what's safest for the officers. :heart: And if no pepper spray is handy, well, jabbing someone in the gut with a baton as hard as you can is also acceptable.

obey!!!!

I'm through with his bullshit in this thread though. When the cops get fired following the investigation, I'll come back to let him know his opinion is flat out wrong.

I've stated a few times the entire line didn't need to be sprayed.

If I'm so wrong and such a fucking idiot why don't you just use what I actually say to support your stance rather than yapping bullshit?

Try to stay classy dude :wink:

#172 In A Silent Way

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Posted 22 November 2011 - 03:49 AM

It used to be protestors would use "passive resistance" and be carried away limp. Linking arms presents a problem if the goal is to get arrested.

#173 Arglebargle

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Posted 22 November 2011 - 03:53 AM

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#174 deadheadskier

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Posted 22 November 2011 - 04:09 AM

I've stated a few times the entire line didn't need to be sprayed.

If I'm so wrong and such a fucking idiot why don't you just use what I actually say to support your stance rather than yapping bullshit?

Try to stay classy dude :wink:


RC: Just got peppersprayed by Joker

1. deadheadskier

:rolling:

#175 scarfire

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Posted 22 November 2011 - 07:17 AM

they're going to have to remove this cop from the police force.
how could he ever show his face in uniform on that campus after that video?

#176 Spidergawd

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Posted 22 November 2011 - 01:21 PM

http://www.ehow.com/...pper-spray.html

Death

Although it is rare, death can result from exposure to pepper spray. Deaths related to pepper spray are usually due to advanced age, preexisting heart conditions, or preexisting respiratory problems. Those with severe allergies to oleoresin capsicum may experience shock or become unable to breathe once exposed to pepper spray, leading to suffocation and death.


Read more: What Are the Dangers of Pepper Spray? | eHow.com http://www.ehow.com/...l#ixzz1eRLPAPBz


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#177 Spidergawd

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Posted 22 November 2011 - 01:24 PM

Did you know that tear gas and pepper spray is banned from use in war?

http://www.commondre.../030900-103.htm

#178 Spidergawd

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Posted 22 November 2011 - 01:28 PM

11 UC Davis students treated on scene and two were hospitalized.

http://blogs.scienti...t-pepper-spray/

Also, I didn't even think of this:

But as pointed out in the 2004 paper, Health Hazards of Pepper Spray, written by health researchers at the University of North Carolina and Duke University, the sprays contain other risky materials:

Depending on brand, an OC spray may contain water, alcohols, or organic solvents as liquid carriers; and nitrogen, carbon dioxide, or halogenated hydrocarbons (such as Freon, tetrachloroethylene, and methylene chloride) as propellants to discharge the canister contents.(3) Inhalation of high doses of some of these chemicals can produce adverse cardiac, respiratory, and neurologic effects, including arrhythmias and sudden death.



#179 Spidergawd

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Posted 22 November 2011 - 01:34 PM

Relevant, from the NYPD Patrol Guide:

The Patrol Guide prohibits the use of pepper spray against subjects who passively resist
(e.g., going limp, offering no active physical resistance). It further cautions that if possible,
pepper spray should not be used against persons who appear to be in frail health, young children,
women believed to be pregnant, or persons with known respiratory conditions.


Another interesting excerpt:

During these training sessions, officers are not only instructed on the circumstances under
which use of OC is justified, as per the Patrol Guide, but also on proper procedural usage for the
spray. Officers are told to use verbal techniques to de-escalate the confrontation, if possible,
before resorting to pepper spray. They are taught not to fire the spray from within three feet of
subjects, not to use the spray on a windy day, and not to use OC in group settings or for crowd
control; they are trained to fire a maximum of two one-second bursts of the spray.


Complete NYPD pepper spray report: http://www.nyc.gov/h...epperreport.pdf

Marked for later reading...

#180 Joker

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Posted 22 November 2011 - 01:40 PM

http://www.ehow.com/...pper-spray.html



Posted Image

Are you suggesting it's safer to force people to attempt to step over and around others risking tripping and falling rather than pepper spray them? Because I'd imagine it's much, much safer to spray them.


Protecting Ourselves from Slips, Trips and Falls

In 2007, more than 21,700 Americans died as a result of falls and more than 7.9 million were injured by a fall including over 1.8 million older adults who had a fall-related injury that resulted in an emergency room visit. Falls are the leading cause of injury-related deaths among older adults 73 and older and the second leading cause of death from ages 60-72. The links below can help you protect yourself and your loved ones from falls. To prevent falls:

http://www.nsc.org/s...ages/Falls.aspx

#181 Joker

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Posted 22 November 2011 - 01:52 PM

Did you know that tear gas and pepper spray is banned from use in war?

http://www.commondre.../030900-103.htm


Did you know it's legal in the US and results in fewer deaths and injuries to both police and suspects?

From your link

While tear gas and pepper spray are banned from use in war by an international treaty, domestic use is legal and nearly ubiquitous in the United States. The advantages of these "non-lethal" technologies, police say, include fewer deaths and serious injuries to officers and suspects, a more benign image for departments and less litigation. Currently, more than 90 percent of the country's police departments issue pepper spray to their officers, according to the Justice Department, and many departments store tear gas for use in crowd control or riot situations.




The Effectiveness and Safety of Pepper Spray

April 2003
Though generally assumed to be safe and effective, the consequences of the use of pepper spray, as with any use of force, can never be predicted with certainty. To expand the scope of knowledge on such a complex subject, this Research for Practice examines two unpublished NIJ-funded studies on the use of pepper spray in real-life arrests and compares them with previous studies. While the research does not and cannot prove that pepper spray will never be a contributing factor in the death of a subject resisting arrest, it seems to confirm that pepper spray is a reasonably safe and effective tool for law enforcement officers to use when confronting uncooperative or combative subjects.

http://www.nij.gov/pubs-sum/195739.htm

#182 seany

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Posted 22 November 2011 - 01:52 PM

C'mon, Jack :rolleyes: Seriously? The guy walked up and down the line twice spraying people in the face w/ all casualness - no sense of urgency. At no point in the videos do the officers appear to be in jeopardy. This was pure abuse of power. Period.

#183 Joker

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Posted 22 November 2011 - 02:02 PM

C'mon, Jack :rolleyes: Seriously? The guy walked up and down the line twice spraying people in the face w/ all casualness - no sense of urgency. At no point in the videos do the officers appear to be in jeopardy. This was pure abuse of power. Period.

I've never said they were in jeopardy and I've stated they had no reason to spray any of the folks not directly in their path. I'm guessing they'll use the the excuse they were surrounded and had no way out as a reason for using it.

I'm not sure what the proper amount of spraying is and haven't commented on that at all.

All I've done is point out that they had a legit reason to spray those blocking their immediate exit after they had been asked to move and refused.

#184 Mind Left Body

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Posted 22 November 2011 - 03:25 PM

:deadhorse: :devil:

#185 jg

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Posted 22 November 2011 - 03:32 PM

Here we go again....

http://www.cbsnews.c...epper-spraying/

(AP)

DAVIS, Calif. - Students have again put up tents near the site where University of California, Davis police used pepper spray on seated protesters in a conflict that has sparked outrage and calls for the school chancellor's resignation.

The encampment was again erected Monday, hours after the campus police chief was put on administrative leave and the chancellor was shouted down at a demonstration while trying to apologize for the incident that happened at a protest held Friday in support of the Occupy Wall Street movement. Two officers also were placed on administrative leave after the students were sprayed.

University spokeswoman Claudia Morain said the school was monitoring the protest and did not say whether the students would be allowed to camp overnight. She said the school will take action "step by step" to balance campus security with people's right to protest.

Chancellor Linda Katehi made a brief appearance, facing students, faculty and community members chanting slogans and pressing for her to step down.

"I'm here to apologize. I feel horrible for what happened Friday," Katehi told the crowd. "If you think you don't want to be students of the university we had on Friday, I'm just telling you, I don't want to be the chancellor of the university we had on Friday."

She asked the assembly to work with her as she strives to earn the trust of the campus. Then, as the demonstrators yelled at her to step down, staff members escorted Katehi away to a car.

University officials and campus police have been the target of angry reprisals since widely circulated videos showed riot police dousing pepper spray on a row of students while they were sitting passively on the ground with their arms linked.

Meanwhile, demonstrators at the University of California, Berkeley, pledged to sleep overnight at Sproul Plaza, though they did not plan to set up tents. A heat lamp was set up in the plaza, and student protesters called the demonstration a "pajama party" rather than an encampment.

University of California President Mark G. Yudof called the chancellors of all 10 campuses and reminded them of the right to protest peacefully.

"We cannot let this happen again," he said, according to a statement from the president's office.

On Sunday, Katehi called on the Yolo County district attorney's office to investigate the police department's use of force.

With no uniformed officers in attendance, students who were pepper-sprayed opened Monday's protest, saying they now feel unsafe on campus.

Mechanical engineering student David Buscho, 22, of San Rafael, described being paralyzed with fear as he felt the spray sting "like hot glass."

"I had my arms around my girlfriend. I just kissed her on the forehead and then he sprayed us," he said. "Immediately we were blinded. ... He just sprayed us again and again and we were completely powerless to do anything."

Nine students hit by pepper spray were treated at the scene, two were taken to hospitals and later released, university officials said. Ten people were arrested.

Meanwhile, UC Davis police Chief Annette Spicuzza and two officers have been placed on administrative leave.

Before the assembly broke up, the crowd voted to hold a campus-wide strike Nov. 28 to coincide with a meeting of the University of California governing board.

The UC Davis faculty association has called for Katehi's resignation, saying there had been a "gross failure of leadership."

Yudof said Sunday that he was "appalled" by images of protesters being doused with pepper spray and plans an assessment of law enforcement procedures on all 10 campuses.

Katehi, speaking Monday morning on KQED Radio, said she had not authorized officers to use pepper spray and called it a "horrific incident." She said she takes full responsibility but will not step down.

"They were not supposed to use force; it was never called for," she said. "They were not supposed to limit the students from having the rally, from congregating to express their anger and frustration."

She has said she plans to appoint a task force of students, staff and faculty to investigate the incident and report back to her within 30 days.



#186 vic

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Posted 22 November 2011 - 03:47 PM

good for them.

#187 MeOmYo

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Posted 22 November 2011 - 03:58 PM

I've never said they were in jeopardy and I've stated they had no reason to spray any of the folks not directly in their path. I'm guessing they'll use the the excuse they were surrounded and had no way out as a reason for using it.

I'm not sure what the proper amount of spraying is and haven't commented on that at all.

All I've done is point out that they had a legit reason to spray those blocking their immediate exit after they had been asked to move and refused.


There in lies the difference I beleive. You say they are justified due to the reasons you stated. I understand your point of view. I believe if this is justification to pepper spray people, then WE ARE SO FUCKED :panic:

this type of thing should not be legal

#188 Java Time

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Posted 22 November 2011 - 04:55 PM

the Police were put in a no-win situation, no doubt part of the planned protest, if they dragged "peaceful" demonstrators away they'd lose, if they started spraying them with pepper spray, as they did, they'd lose.

this was nothing more than a stunt to bait the police (IMO)...and detracts from the real cause of the "Hiking student fees" protests.

how does blocking police help with the protest against the University itself and the fee hikes?

not saying the Campus cops didn't go overboard I'm just wondering what was the true motivation of the UC davis protest...to get back at the Berkley campus cops or to protest the student fee hikes?

I'm not hearing any news on that portion of the protest regarding student fees...just fuck the police:dunno:

#189 vic

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Posted 22 November 2011 - 05:50 PM

whats the difference here?

Posted Image

#190 TakeAStepBack

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Posted 22 November 2011 - 06:09 PM

whats the difference here?

Posted Image


They are consumers in the evil profiteers game of capitalism. These folks in the image are waiting to receive whatever new gadget has hit the consumer market and therefore should be left alone.

The university, on the other hand, is protesting for concession to lower the costs of the evil profiteers capitalist game. Therefore, they are trying to ruin the capitalists profit margin and should be pepper sprayed for disobeying police directives.

#191 TakeAStepBack

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Posted 22 November 2011 - 06:12 PM

Or it could be the lack of signs. :dunno:

#192 vic

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Posted 22 November 2011 - 06:20 PM

Or it could be the lack of signs. :dunno:


it's not the signs being stated as a problem, but the tents. i wish i had photoshop knowledge so i can put officer pike in there:funny1:

#193 syd_25

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Posted 22 November 2011 - 06:23 PM

whats the difference here?

Posted Image


Best Buy is not calling the cops on them...
oh that and the reasons TASB stated:funny1:

#194 Java Time

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Posted 22 November 2011 - 06:25 PM

whats the difference here?

Posted Image


while the protestors prolly shouldn't have been pepper sprayed...these individuals should have?:funny1:

#195 TakeAStepBack

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Posted 22 November 2011 - 06:32 PM

My first comment was completely sarcastic and facetious. I don't think the two can be compared as the line outside the store is certainly not planning to stay...until.

Now, if Sony announced the new PS4 would be out in November of 2012 and folks liined up with tents starting in August, I'm sure it is fair to say that they would be cleared from the area.

#196 Tim the Beek

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Posted 22 November 2011 - 06:34 PM

while the protestors prolly shouldn't have been pepper sprayed...these individuals should have?:funny1:


Fully support their right to do it.

And fully think that they're part of the problem.

#197 Java Time

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Posted 22 November 2011 - 06:46 PM

Fully support their right to do it.

And fully think that they're part of the problem.


right to pepper spray or right to camp out in protest?

I tell what...if I were a cop, out numbered...silent-peaceful protest or not, I asked you to move/disperse and you fail to do so...I would not hesitate to physically move personnel or spray 'em down...if my orders are to remove you that is my job...you fail to move after a few attempts of being asked nicely to do so, you've now opened the door to whatever happens to you. Especially since the police had nothing to do with the student fee hikes.

just thought the cops may have gone a li'l too far on this one...based solely on limited info supplied.:coffee:

#198 wonka

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Posted 22 November 2011 - 07:06 PM

whats the difference here?

Posted Image


Occupy Best Buy (cause it's more comfy than the parks and when the store is open we can watch movies on the really big tvs)

#199 phishNtrips

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Posted 22 November 2011 - 07:59 PM

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#200 scarfire

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Posted 22 November 2011 - 08:08 PM

the best buy employees should be trained this week on the proper procedures to pepper spray the black friday maniacs who get out of hand when they open the doors at 1 AM and the stampede starts.