121 replies to this topic

[Rionach aka Spec K]

like...say someone supports the movement, but can't participate
can they go down and get a free coat, hat and mittens?

[Joker]

Give it a shot, if they say no, make a sign and start protesting about it, then you'll be an official part of the 99% and they'll give you free stuff

[Dr. Lostreality]

When I was there there wasn't anyone guarding the free clothes/food section and making sure you were "actually" a protester.

So I'm going to go with a yes.

[TakeAStepBack]

Well, apparently the homeless are fetting a rap for freeloading meals.....

[Goose]

Well, apparently the homeless are fetting a rap for freeloading meals.....

In Philly there are a lot of homeless getting the free meals and some of the
donated stuff. But, they were there, living in the plaza year round, long
before Occupy got there. Now they're being better taken care of than
before is the only difference. Either way tax money is/was not being used
to care for them.

[TakeAStepBack]

So far, ive only seen good things in other city occupations. This is uniquely a nyc problem.

[In A Silent Way]

When I was growing up we call them "bums."

[SunshineDrummer]

Well, apparently the homeless are fetting a rap for freeloading meals.....

From yesterday's NY Post:

http://www.nypost.co...Yhpa8MSYIL9xSDL

(Granted, its the Post, so take it for what its worth but the idea of complaining about feeding the homeless and/or ex-cons seems contrary to what the movement is about)

[Rionach aka Spec K]

From yesterday's NY Post:

http://www.nypost.co...Yhpa8MSYIL9xSDL

(Granted, its the Post, so take it for what its worth but the idea of complaining about feeding the homeless and/or ex-cons seems contrary to what the movement is about)

This has been posted in the sticky thread - with another article disputing it

[Joker]

When I was growing up we call them "bums."

I believe the politically correct term was hobo

[Dr. Lostreality]

are the homeless not part of the 99%?

[robberry]

like...say someone supports the movement, but can't participate
can they go down and get a free coat, hat and mittens?

The homeless can have all the free mittens they want, but they will refuse service to trolls. Sorry.

[In A Silent Way]

I believe the politically correct term was hobo

We now return you to your regularly scheduled thread.

[Rionach aka Spec K]

The homeless can have all the free mittens they want, but they will refuse service to trolls. Sorry.

I'm not talking about the homeless. I'm talking about the 99% that support the movement but can't participate. Like, say a single mother w/kids needs and can't afford winter coats for her family - is she entitled to the free stuff?

(by the by...am not thinking of myself - I bought myself a gorgeous new winter coat last season and will probably buy myself another this season).

[Tooozday]

Is anyone is "entitled" to anything? Homeless and want some mittens? Ask nicely and someone at Occupy may well hand over a pair.

[Condormania]

The "stuff" is for the sustainability of the movement...you know, to keep the participants alive through the winter. It is not a soup kitchen and it is not a clothing bank. There are many other services throughout the city that fill those needs.

Occupy New Haven's stocks were looted during the night by non-participating homeless people for the first two nights. Now we have night watchmen to prevent that from happening again.

[Joker]

The "stuff" is for the sustainability of the movement...you know, to keep the participants alive through the winter. It is not a soup kitchen and it is not a clothing bank. There are many other services throughout the city that fill those needs.

Occupy New Haven's stocks were looted during the night by non-participating homeless people for the first two nights. Now we have night watchmen to prevent that from happening again.

Wow, so those folks aren't included in the 99%?

I can understand trying to take care of the active protesters first but I would think any donations that are given are meant for everyone in the 99% the homeless and those in serious need being among them.

[TakeAStepBack]

-1%'d

[vic]

Wow, so those folks aren't included in the 99%?

I can understand trying to take care of the active protesters first but I would think any donations that are given are meant for everyone in the 99% the homeless and those in serious need being among them.

i agree...keeping goods locked away is part of what got society to where it is in the first place

but getting everything looted by a couple people, some possibly running to a pawn shop or something to cash in, and it's only gonna lead to more need for donations that don't get distributed properly, so i guess there's really no choice here, which is a shame

[Joker]

Sort of like how the 1% distribute stuff to the rest of us, we'll decide who is worthy of help and who isn't

[TakeAStepBack]

Protecting the resources is one thing. Telling people to go find a soup kitchen when claiming to be the 99% in face of the 1% is entirely another.

Sort of like how the 1% distribute stuff to the rest of us, we'll decide who is worthy of help and who isn't

Which is why wealth distribution, central planning and economics doesnt work. You end up with a few controlling the entire resource base for everyone. Talk abotu ripe for corruption and power abuse....

[MeOmYo]

some people take because they can, not because they need

[TakeAStepBack]

some people take because they can, not because they need

Which is why protecting resources is one thing. Turning people away is another entirely.

[Condormania]

Sort of like how the 1% distribute stuff to the rest of us, we'll decide who is worthy of help and who isn't

Actually, no. It isn't anything like that at all. People make donations to the movement to sustain the movement. Winter is coming and if we don't have the necessary supplies, people will go home and the movement will end. People donate to soup kitchens, food banks and clothing drives to help the needy. We are not running a soup kitchen...there is one across the street. There are many services in the city designed to help supply the needy. This is not to say that we do not feed any of the homeless people who live on the green. However, the occupiers come first and we ask non-occupiers to perform some sort of odd job in exchange for a coat or a meal. You might be surprised at how many people say no thanks when they are asked to wash a dish or or move a garbage can.

...and with all due respect, I would find it much easier to swallow your opinions if I saw even one of you out there for just a night. It's very easy to form opinions about something that you don't know about, but most of the time those opinions are completely based off an ideal rather than reality.

[vic]

...and with all due respect, I would find it much easier to swallow your opinions if I saw even one of you out there for just a night. It's very easy to form opinions about something that you don't know about, but most of the time those opinions are completely based off an ideal rather than reality.

seeeeeeriously

i haven't spent an entire night at occupy philly since i work but i spend at least an hour a day unless there's nothing really planned...i've donated blankets and canned goods and volunteered to pick up goods that other people couldn't move from their houses but wanted to donate

but i am not occupying, so i haven't taken any of their food except for one banana and 2 bottles of water in the first week, which i actually felt bad about doing

[TakeAStepBack]

However, the occupiers come first and we ask non-occupiers to perform some sort of odd job in exchange for a coat or a meal. You might be surprised at how many people say no thanks when they are asked to wash a dish or or move a garbage can.

That's all Im saying. If people have been engageed to participate and refuse but still want to linger around, I can see why they would be turned away.

[u.s.blues]

i would say that resources go to active protestors first. active would not necessarily mean camped out, but active.

[Joker]

It's a shame how there's a % of us who don't choose to speak about how much and/or what we've done and donated to help out and because of that we're not really seen as an equal part of the supposed "99%"

[Spidergawd]

It's a shame how there's a % of us who don't choose to speak about how much and/or what we've done and donated to help out and because of that we're not really seen as an equal part of the supposed "99%"

1. So share. Nothing wrong with that.

2. Who says you're not equal? I think you most certainly are.

[Erinisme]

IMO even though you support the movement the donations are for those that are actively staying. To help it remain possible for them to survive. Not to support them in their day to day lives...there are many programs (not enough granted) to help those who need coats/mittens/etc.

I also think that if someone in dire need were to go there asking (perhaps in exchange for a trade...of some sort) they'd get what they need.

[Rionach aka Spec K]

So, it's a 99% by design eh?

[vic]

IMO even though you support the movement the donations are for those that are actively staying. To help it remain possible for them to survive. Not to support them in their day to day lives...there are many programs (not enough granted) to help those who need coats/mittens/etc.

I also think that if someone in dire need were to go there asking (perhaps in exchange for a trade...of some sort) they'd get what they need.

exactly...the protesters are trying to sustain themselves. shame on people for thinking they should have enough to feed the whole world. their supplies are not infinite. somepeople just wanna nitpick at everything. the homeless are better taken care of at most occupies than the government ever cared to do. what some people are asking them to provide would destroy them if they tried to do so. get involved and you'll get what you need.

[vic]

Occupy Wall Street protesters' own security detail sets standards for conduct in Zuccotti Park
Demonstrators set to eject rulebreakers
BY Edgar Sandoval & Joe Kemp
NEW YORK DAILY NEWS

Tuesday, November 1 2011, 12:01 AM


Marcus Santos for New York Daily News
Occupy Wall Street protesters celebrate Halloween just like everyone else on Monday.
Protesters in Zuccotti Park may be free spirits, but they’ve decided they need some rules all the same.

And if you dare break them - you’re out.

The group has formed its own security detail to enforce a code of ethics mapped out during their general assembly meeting Monday.

“If you want to be part of our group, you have to be civilized,” said Paul Isaac, 45, who is part of Occupy Wall Street’s security team. “Unfortunately, some people come to disrupt the peace.”

PHOTOS: LIFE IN ZUCCOTTI PARK

The list includes rules against stealing, sexual harassment and hurting others - including their feelings. The group also put a ban on fuel, weapons or drugs in the park.

“Basically, we want people to respect one another,” Isaac said.

We want to stay on message. We don’t want people who want to add fuel to the fire, he added.

Victims are told to report any violation to the security team, who will decide whether the person should be kicked out of the park or reported to the police.

“A community this size will have its stress and strains,” said protester Bill Dobbs, noting recent arrests in the park.

Garfield Leslie, 19, was arrested Oct. 22 for trying to sell ******* and brawling with protesters. One of his pals was later arrested for intimidating a witness.

Dobbs said that such behavior shouldn’t blacken the image of the protesters.

“People care for one another but people don’t see that,” he said.

Self-regulations will not distract occupiers from the big picture, protesters said.

“The history books will say ‘They occupied Wall St.’ Not ‘Somebody Stole Somebody’s Backpack,’ ” said Kia Moyer-Sims, 19, who has been here since day 1 of the occupation
from Oregon.

Meanwhile, police denied a report by Daily News Op-Ed writer Harry Siegel that suggested officers have been directing homeless people to Zuccotti Park when they are caught drinking in other areas of the city.

“That’s not to say that individuals without permanent residences are not attracted there on their own,” said Paul Browne, chief spokesman for the NYPD.

With Christina Boyle



Read more: http://www.nydailyne...4#ixzz1cYiNAdkV

[Joker]

"Victims are told to report any violation to the security team, who will decide whether the person should be kicked out of the park or reported to the police."



So these folks have decided THEY are the ones who get to decide who can stay in the park and who can't???

Wow

[MeOmYo]

"Victims are told to report any violation to the security team, who will decide whether the person should be kicked out of the park or reported to the police."



So these folks have decided THEY are the ones who get to decide who can stay in the park and who can't???

Wow

Come now Joker, you are not that naive. now you beleive every bit of this sensationalized media coverage? you know they have no legal grounds to keep people out of the park.

[vic]

makes perfect sense to me...have you read the examples of what they're dealing with?

[Karen]

Wow, so those folks aren't included in the 99%?

I can understand trying to take care of the active protesters first but I would think any donations that are given are meant for everyone in the 99% the homeless and those in serious need being among them.

There has to be a line of delineation in order for the movement to survive. The donations are to sustain the occupiers. I think that is pretty simple concept. The movement is not to create a donation distribution center for the 99%.

Hey Joker, I notice you keep saying 'wow' in all these threads like you are really suprised and just don't get it. You're a smart guy, and I am pretty sure you do get it. So why the (what appears to be) feigned 'gee wow, I don't get it, someone explain it to me' posts?

[Joker]

Come now Joker, you are not that naive. now you beleive every bit of this sensationalized media coverage? you know they have no legal grounds to keep people out of the park.

No, I don't believe for a second they can do it. However from the article it seems they think they can do it.

I'd be interested to know exactly how they are handling the security down there.

Vic, it doesn't matter what they're dealing with down there. How can they possibly believe they have the right to be there but someone else doesn't?

[Joker]

There has to be a line of delineation in order for the movement to survive. The donations are to sustain the occupiers. I think that is pretty simple concept. The movement is not to create a donation distribution center for the 99%.

Hey Joker, I notice you keep saying 'wow' in all these threads like you are really suprised and just don't get it. You're a smart guy, and I am pretty sure you do get it. So why the (what appears to be) feigned 'gee wow, I don't get it, someone explain it to me' posts?

Who decides what makes one an "official occupier" and worthy of being given donated items? Anyone that is down there IS occupying the park. Sure some may put more effort into it than others but that doesn't change the fact that even the homeless there are part of the "occupation."

Is it the top 50% of the occupiers that should get help and not the rest? The top 10%? If they're not taking care of everybody how are they any different from the 1%?

[Spidergawd]

If the homeless are participating and not causing trouble, I'd think there wouldn't be any problem with them being there. Nobody is selectively kicking anyone out unless they are causing problems.

[Joker]

No but apparently some are not getting donated food, clothing, etc...

[Karen]

Who decides what makes one an "official occupier" and worthy of being given donated items? Anyone that is down there IS occupying the park. Sure some may put more effort into it than others but that doesn't change the fact that even the homeless there are part of the "occupation."

Is it the top 50% of the occupiers that should get help and not the rest? The top 10%? If they're not taking care of everybody how are they any different from the 1%?

If they are not taking care of 'everybody'? So, are you suggesting that OWS focus their efforts on collecting donations of food, clothing, etc and distributing them to everybody that needs it? Just change the whole focus of the movement? That's just silly in my opinion.

[Joker]

No, I'm saying that if someone is in the park occupying it, they should receive the same treatment and benefits as everyone else. It shouldn't be a case of, well you don't wave signs so you don't get this or you don't contribute as much as others so you don't get that.

[Karen]

At first I thought you were being provacative when you kept saying 'wow' but now I see that you really don't understand why the donations are for active occupiers....

I'll stop explaining my POV now

[MeOmYo]

No, I'm saying that if someone is in the park occupying it, they should receive the same treatment and benefits as everyone else. It shouldn't be a case of, well you don't wave signs so you don't get this or you don't contribute as much as others so you don't get that.

dude, you are twisting this things so f-ing much.

this is a security issue, not a participation issue.

you cause trouble, you are not included.

and who is making up this, "It shouldn't be the case" anyway? You? have you been down there and participated? Do you even know what's going on down there aside from sitting behind your screen twisting tabloids and judging?

[Joker]

At first I thought you were being provacative when you kept saying 'wow' but now I see that you really don't understand why the donations are for active occupiers....

I'll stop explaining my POV now

And I'm saying that any person (homeless or not) that is down there occupying the park IS an active occupier

[Karen]

And I'm saying that any person (homeless or not) that is down there occupying the park IS an active occupier

That's a semantic argument IMO.

[Joker]

dude, you are twisting this things so f-ing much.

this is a security issue, not a participation issue.

you cause trouble, you are not included.

and who is making up this, "It shouldn't be the case" anyway? You? have you been down there and participated? Do you even know what's going on down there aside from sitting behind your screen twisting tabloids and judging?

How am I twisting it?

Protesters are down there and have set up shop occupying the park illegally, breaking laws and endangering others and they think the city has the right to remove them. Now along comes someone else occupying the park illegally, breaking laws and endangering others and the protesters have a problem with the new folks and they think they should be allowed to determine who stays and who is removed.

Aren't the new folk part of the 99%? Aren't the new folk occupying the same park?

No, I haven't been down there, I'm in Boston, I've been down there and I've donated. My donation was meant to be used for every single person down there not for just those who are lucky enough to be deemed worthy of food and clothing.

[vic]

so selling yay and starting fights should be accepted? and if it were you'd come along and call them criminals. seriously, if you have absolutely nothing to contribute but slander, i am out of conversation with you. it's beyond old at this point.

[Joker]

so selling yay and starting fights should be accepted? and if it were you'd come along and call them criminals. seriously, if you have absolutely nothing to contribute but slander, i am out of conversation with you. it's beyond old at this point.

No it shouldn't, I never said it should.

Who have I slandered?