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A view reflecting personal responsibility


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#1 TEO

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Posted 13 October 2011 - 03:00 AM

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#2 DancingBearly

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Posted 13 October 2011 - 11:13 AM

We don’t believe that the 99 percent are even oppressed as they define it, by Wall Street. We believe the 99 percent, like the rest of us, are oppressed by government.

The real 1% (which means super rich) buy the government. So if this person is feels oppressed by government and he/she feels their part of the 1% then just donate a mil. to their representatives and tell them how to vote or what legislation to bring to the floor.

#3 vic

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Posted 13 October 2011 - 02:13 PM

gotta wonder who even wrote this, since they don't wanna show their face, and if they're spewing a bunch of made up bullshit

also gotta wonder if they spent as much time reading anything on what this is about as they did handwriting this out...prolly not

#4 TEO

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Posted 13 October 2011 - 02:18 PM

Makes more sense than the pic of the alleged trust fund kid asking to be taxed.

Edited by TEO, 13 October 2011 - 02:28 PM.


#5 vic

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Posted 13 October 2011 - 02:30 PM

Makes more since than the pic of the alleged trust fund kid asking to be taxed.


more like about the same...not to mention that not everyone has 90% of their tuition paid for by scholarships...and that the person writing it is saying he has practically nothing and is ok with that...and that he hasn't graduated yet and doesn't know if his/her degree will do anything for him/her once he/she hits the job market...and started saving at 17? how much money did this person make in 6 months-a year? :rotf:

#6 vic

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Posted 13 October 2011 - 02:35 PM

one way or the other...trust-funder wanting to be taxed, 28 year old who thinks you have to earn everything...i can make up a sign that fits my views and hold it up in a pic and post it on the internet with no solid proof...it means pretty much nothing but a photo-op to suit your cause

going with real statistics makes more sense

#7 TEO

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Posted 13 October 2011 - 02:51 PM

As long as those "real statistics" can be verified bearing in mind that statistics can be manipulated.

#8 vic

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Posted 13 October 2011 - 03:04 PM

of course.

#9 DancingBearly

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Posted 13 October 2011 - 03:09 PM

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He is saying he is part of the 1% so can he loan me a million? I don't think these sheep understand the concept of 99% and maybe you don't either. If you are not a billionaire you are part of the 99% weather you agree with the movement or not.
I like you have always worked(collected for three days out of 38 years) but the economy is not what it was. I feel blessed I still have a job but I can't get my representatives to listen to my concerns no matter how I try. All I get is "Thank you for your concern on this matter can you please donate to my re- election campaign" But the 1% like the Koch brothers donate x dollars to say a Governor and only ask in return to bust unions.
So if you think you are not part of the 99% what island do you own or going to buy?:rolleyes:

#10 TakeAStepBack

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Posted 13 October 2011 - 03:11 PM

"More of the same, only different!"

#11 vic

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Posted 13 October 2011 - 03:12 PM

one way or the other...trust-funder wanting to be taxed, 28 year old who thinks you have to earn everything


yeah,and the squatters at Zuccotti would never do that
:rotf:


:dunno:

#12 vic

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Posted 13 October 2011 - 03:43 PM

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Wed Oct 12, 2011 at 09:01 AM PDT

Open Letter to that 53% Guy

Hello,
I briefly visited the “We are the 53%” website, but I first saw your face on a liberal blog. Your picture is quite popular on liberal blogs. I think it’s because of the expression on your face. I don’t know if you meant to look pugnacious or if we’re just projecting that on you, but I think that’s what gets our attention.



In the picture, you’re holding up a sheet of paper that says:

I am a former Marine.
I work two jobs.
I don’t have health insurance.
I worked 60-70 hours a week for 8 years to pay my way through college.
I haven’t had 4 consecutive days off in over 4 years.
But I don’t blame Wall Street.
Suck it up you whiners.
I am the 53%.
God bless the USA!

I wanted to respond to you as a liberal. Because, although I think you’ve made yourself clear and I think I understand you, you don’t seem to understand me at all. I hope you will read this and understand me better, and maybe understand the Occupy Wall Street movement better.

First, let me say that I think it’s great that you have such a strong work ethic and I agree with you that you have much to be proud of. You seem like a good, hard-working, strong kid. I admire your dedication and determination. I worked my way through college too, mostly working graveyard shifts at hotels as a “night auditor.” For a time I worked at two hotels at once, but I don’t think I ever worked 60 hours in a week, and certainly not 70. I think I maxed out at 56. And that wasn’t something I could sustain for long, not while going to school. The problem was that I never got much sleep, and sleep deprivation would take its toll. I can’t imagine putting in 70 hours in a week while going to college at the same time. That’s impressive.

I have a nephew in the Marine Corps, so I have some idea of how tough that can be. He almost didn’t make it through basic training, but he stuck it out and insisted on staying even when questions were raised about his medical fitness. He eventually served in Iraq and Afghanistan and has decided to pursue a career in the Marines. We’re all very proud of him. Your picture reminds me of him.

So, if you think being a liberal means that I don’t value hard work or a strong work ethic, you’re wrong. I think everyone appreciates the industry and dedication a person like you displays. I’m sure you’re a great employee, and if you have entrepreneurial ambitions, I’m sure these qualities will serve you there too. I’ll wish you the best of luck, even though a guy like you will probably need luck less than most.

I understand your pride in what you’ve accomplished, but I want to ask you something.

Do you really want the bar set this high? Do you really want to live in a society where just getting by requires a person to hold down two jobs and work 60 to 70 hours a week? Is that your idea of the American Dream?

Do you really want to spend the rest of your life working two jobs and 60 to 70 hours a week? Do you think you can? Because, let me tell you, kid, that’s not going to be as easy when you’re 50 as it was when you were 20.

And what happens if you get sick? You say you don’t have health insurance, but since you’re a veteran I assume you have some government-provided health care through the VA system. I know my father, a Vietnam-era veteran of the Air Force, still gets most of his medical needs met through the VA, but I don’t know what your situation is. But even if you have access to health care, it doesn’t mean disease or injury might not interfere with your ability to put in those 60- to 70-hour work weeks.

Do you plan to get married, have kids? Do you think your wife is going to be happy with you working those long hours year after year without a vacation? Is it going to be fair to her? Is it going to be fair to your kids? Is it going to be fair to you?

Look, you’re a tough kid. And you have a right to be proud of that. But not everybody is as tough as you, or as strong, or as young. Does pride in what you’ve accomplish mean that you have contempt for anybody who can’t keep up with you? Does it mean that the single mother who can’t work on her feet longer than 50 hours a week doesn’t deserve a good life? Does it mean the older man who struggles with modern technology and can’t seem to keep up with the pace set by younger workers should just go throw himself off a cliff?

And, believe it or not, there are people out there even tougher than you. Why don’t we let them set the bar, instead of you? Are you ready to work 80 hours a week? 100 hours? Can you hold down four jobs? Can you do it when you’re 40? When you’re 50? When you’re 60? Can you do it with arthritis? Can you do it with one arm? Can you do it when you’re being treated for prostate cancer?

And is this really your idea of what life should be like in the greatest country on Earth?

Here’s how a liberal looks at it: a long time ago workers in this country realized that industrialization wasn’t making their lives better, but worse. The captains of industry were making a ton of money and living a merry life far away from the dirty, dangerous factories they owned, and far away from the even dirtier and more dangerous mines that fed raw materials to those factories.

The workers quickly decided that this arrangement didn’t work for them. If they were going to work as cogs in machines designed to build wealth for the Rockefellers, Vanderbilts and Carnegies, they wanted a cut. They wanted a share of the wealth that they were helping create. And that didn’t mean just more money; it meant a better quality of life. It meant reasonable hours and better working conditions.

Eventually, somebody came up with the slogan, “8 hours of work, 8 hours of leisure, 8 hours of sleep” to divide the 24-hour day into what was considered a fair allocation of a human’s time. It wasn’t a slogan that was immediately accepted. People had to fight to put this standard in place. People demonstrated, and fought with police, and were killed. They were called communists (in fairness, some of them were), and traitors, and many of them got a lot worse than pepper spray at the hands of police and private security.

But by the time we got through the Great Depression and WWII, we’d all learned some valuable lessons about working together and sharing the prosperity, and the 8-hour workday became the norm.

The 8-hour workday and the 40-hour workweek became a standard by which we judged our economic success, and a reality check against which we could verify the American Dream.

If a family could live a good life with one wage-earner working a 40-hour job, then the American Dream was realized. If the income from that job could pay the bills, buy a car, pay for the kids’ braces, allow the family to save enough money for a down payment on a house and still leave some money for retirement and maybe for a college fund for the kids, then we were living the American Dream. The workers were sharing in the prosperity they helped create, and they still had time to take their kids to a ball game, take their spouses to a movie, and play a little golf on the weekends.

Ah, the halcyon days of the 1950s! Yeah, ok, it wasn’t quite that perfect. The prosperity wasn’t spread as evenly and ubiquitously as we might want to pretend, but if you were a middle-class white man, things were probably pretty good from an economic perspective. The American middle class was reaching its zenith.

And the top marginal federal income tax rate was more than 90%. Throughout the whole of the 1950s and into the early 60s.

Just thought I’d throw that in there.

Anyway, do you understand what I’m trying to say? We can have a reasonable standard for what level of work qualifies you for the American Dream, and work to build a society that realizes that dream, or we can chew each other to the bone in a nightmare of merciless competition and mutual contempt.

I’m a liberal, so I probably dream bigger than you. For instance, I want everybody to have healthcare. I want lazy people to have healthcare. I want stupid people to have healthcare. I want drug addicts to have healthcare. I want bums who refuse to work even when given the opportunity to have healthcare. I’m willing to pay for that with my taxes, because I want to live in a society where it doesn’t matter how much of a loser you are, if you need medical care you can get it. And not just by crowding up an emergency room that should be dedicated exclusively to helping people in emergencies.

You probably don’t agree with that, and that’s fine. That’s an expansion of the American Dream, and would involve new commitments we haven’t made before. But the commitment we’ve made to the working class since the 1940s is something that we should both support and be willing to fight for, whether we are liberal or conservative. We should both be willing to fight for the American Dream. And we should agree that anybody trying to steal that dream from us is to be resisted, not defended.

And while we’re defending that dream, you know what else we’ll be defending, kid? We’ll be defending you and your awesome work ethic. Because when we defend the American Dream we’re not just defending the idea of modest prosperity for people who put in an honest day’s work, we’re also defending the idea that those who go the extra mile should be rewarded accordingly.

Look kid, I don’t want you to “get by” working two jobs and 60 to 70 hours a week. If you’re willing to put in that kind of effort, I want you to get rich. I want you to have a comprehensive healthcare plan. I want you vacationing in the Bahamas every couple of years, with your beautiful wife and healthy, happy kids. I want you rewarded for your hard work, and I want your exceptional effort to reap exceptional rewards. I want you to accumulate wealth and invest it in Wall Street. And I want you to make more money from those investments.

I understand that a prosperous America needs people with money to invest, and I’ve got no problem with that. All other things being equal, I want all the rich people to keep being rich. And clever financiers who find ways to get more money into the hands of promising entrepreneurs should be rewarded for their contributions as well.

I think Wall Street has an important job to do, I just don’t think they’ve been doing it. And I resent their sense of entitlement – their sense that they are special and deserve to be rewarded extravagantly even when they screw everything up.

Come on, it was only three years ago, kid. Remember? Those assholes almost destroyed our economy. Do you remember the feeling of panic? John McCain wanted to suspend the presidential campaign so that everybody could focus on the crisis. Hallowed financial institutions like Lehman Brothers and Merrill Lynch went belly up. The government started intervening with bailouts, not because anybody thought “private profits and socialized losses” was fair, but because we were afraid not to intervene - we were afraid our whole economy might come crashing down around us if we didn’t prop up companies that were “too big to fail.”

So, even though you and I had nothing to do with the bad decisions, blind greed and incompetence of those guys on Wall Street, we were sure as hell along for the ride, weren’t we? And we’ve all paid a price.

All the” 99%” wants is for you to remember the role that Wall Street played in creating this mess, and for you to join us in demanding that Wall Street share the pain. They don’t want to share the pain, and they’re spending a lot of money and twisting a lot of arms to foist their share of the pain on the rest of us instead. And they’ve been given unprecedented powers to spend and twist, and they’re not even trying to hide what they’re doing.

All we want is for everybody to remember what happened, and to see what is happening still. And we want you to see that the only way they can get away without paying their share is to undermine the American Dream for the rest of us.

And I want you and I to understand each other, and to stand together to prevent them from doing that. You seem like the kind of guy who would be a strong ally, and I’d be proud to stand with you.

EDIT: Thanks to everyone for the recommendations and to Kos for the promotion to the front page. I'm really stunned. I hope it isn't weird to add an edit like this after you've been promoted to the front page. But I wanted to say how much I appreciate the opportunity to be heard and I appreciate all the kind comments (which I will probably spend most of the rest of the night reading).

http://www.dailykos....-to-that-53-Guy

#13 TakeAStepBack

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Posted 13 October 2011 - 04:07 PM

Nice read. He doesnt bother to mention that the entitlements programs of the 40s were causing major deficits in the nation since the 50s and 60s. And the only way to pay for it, without taxing the population, was to borrow it. Then in 1971, the stage was det. Wallp st. and govt. Have been wreckless as hell, but that was made possible due to a horrendous monetary policy. There is a lot of blame to go atound thats for certain.

#14 concert andy

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Posted 13 October 2011 - 05:14 PM

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Does it really matter who wrote it, or who is hiding behind the paper being held up.

This has been the basis on my commentary of Occupy being naive in its vague demands.

Pointing fingers is not going ot make it better.

Asking for your bail out is not going to make it better.


Personal responsibility can go a long way in making better for you.

Sometime this may not work out because of layoffs, but do as I did. Had a well paying job, got laid off (in 2004), worked a $10 an job, and worked my self back up to where I am today, better than I was when I got laid off.

---

We can not control the masses and their responsibility, but I have a co worker whose friend was offered an almost 6 digit salary, after recently being laid off. The friend turned it down because the government gives him more in subsidies for his kids college tuition, and 18 more months of unemployment.

#15 vic

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Posted 13 October 2011 - 08:47 PM

Does it really matter who wrote it, or who is hiding behind the paper being held up.

This has been the basis on my commentary of Occupy being naive in its vague demands.

Pointing fingers is not going ot make it better.

Asking for your bail out is not going to make it better.


Personal responsibility can go a long way in making better for you.

Sometime this may not work out because of layoffs, but do as I did. Had a well paying job, got laid off (in 2004), worked a $10 an job, and worked my self back up to where I am today, better than I was when I got laid off.

---

We can not control the masses and their responsibility, but I have a co worker whose friend was offered an almost 6 digit salary, after recently being laid off. The friend turned it down because the government gives him more in subsidies for his kids college tuition, and 18 more months of unemployment.


not brilliant...you're suggesting that everyone is a freeloader and that noone is to blame but each individual...how herman cain of you:rolleyes:

you can't deny that something has to change from higher up, whether it be with the fed or money in politics or whatever...there's not a ridiculously high unemployment rate just because people don't want jobs...i love the people who think that because they got lucky that eveyone can just follow their path and stop whining

#16 Jwheelz

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Posted 14 October 2011 - 07:01 PM

Does it really matter who wrote it, or who is hiding behind the paper being held up.

This has been the basis on my commentary of Occupy being naive in its vague demands.

Pointing fingers is not going ot make it better.

Asking for your bail out is not going to make it better.


Personal responsibility can go a long way in making better for you.

Sometime this may not work out because of layoffs, but do as I did. Had a well paying job, got laid off (in 2004), worked a $10 an job, and worked my self back up to where I am today, better than I was when I got laid off.

---

We can not control the masses and their responsibility, but I have a co worker whose friend was offered an almost 6 digit salary, after recently being laid off. The friend turned it down because the government gives him more in subsidies for his kids college tuition, and 18 more months of unemployment.



The problem I have is that what you consider to be the mass irresponsibility of individuals is actually due to the irresponsibility an elite few who made terrible decisions to invest substantial amounts of money and assets that if they even took an hour out of their day to research a little further, it would have proven that those investments were not sound. and then for their ill-advised decisions we were placed on the hook for $750 billion and they walked away with seven and eight-figure bonuses and many of them have better jobs now.

But protesting isn't even about placing blame or pointing fingers, it's simply about drawing attention to the fact that there are actually people in this country who feel very slighted and very angry about the situation that we're all facing because of this and other related issues, and they don't necessarily agree with the austerity first attitude of the tea party and right-wing Republicans.


Why are there two of these threads? :lol:

#17 TakeAStepBack

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Posted 14 October 2011 - 07:14 PM

and they don't necessarily agree with the austerity first attitude of the tea party and right-wing Republicans.


While I agree with the rest of what you said. Do you really think it is the tea party and the republicans that believe "austerity first"?
Have the democrats prosecuted those who made these decisions everyone is mad over? How about more bail outs and "stimulus" further inflating the economy and complicating matters, instead of finding the root cause and fixing it?

Making this a left/right argument is the exact reason why I'm not putting stock in the wall st protests. MoveOn has sent me 4 emails in the last 3 days regarding their initiatives at OWS.

#18 TakeAStepBack

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Posted 14 October 2011 - 07:15 PM

Furthermore, the tea party before it was co-opted, protested the same things down to the ROOT cause of these financial issues (and the original movement is still alive, it just ditched the tea party).


Know your enemy, friends. Know your enemy.

#19 vic

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Posted 14 October 2011 - 07:28 PM

moveon is NOT occupy wall street

#20 beerzrkr

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Posted 14 October 2011 - 07:29 PM

moveon is NOT occupy wall street


Not yet.

#21 Jwheelz

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Posted 14 October 2011 - 07:29 PM

While I agree with the rest of what you said. Do you really think it is the tea party and the republicans that believe "austerity first"?
Have the democrats prosecuted those who made these decisions everyone is mad over? How about more bail outs and "stimulus" further inflating the economy and complicating matters, instead of finding the root cause and fixing it?

Making this a left/right argument is the exact reason why I'm not putting stock in the wall st protests. MoveOn has sent me 4 emails in the last 3 days regarding their initiatives at OWS.


Yeah MoveOn is definitely trying to exert a lot of pressure. But you're right, austerity is being pushed by many on the left (closer to center IMHO) & right, it has to be an anti-corporate/gov't corruption thing to keep its energy. But you have to admit liberal/progressive people are more likely to gravitate towards participating in OWS demonstrations.

#22 vic

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Posted 14 October 2011 - 07:36 PM

But you have to admit liberal/progressive people are more likely to gravitate towards participating in OWS demonstrations.



yes...mainly those who are frustrated and fed up and done with the democratic party

#23 Java Time

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Posted 14 October 2011 - 08:22 PM

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http://www.dailykos....-to-that-53-Guy



I'm not actively involved in OWS but I saw a coupla things I wouldn't mind being done....

his 60-70 hr work week was in the Military ...and very easy to do when there is no other option...I did it!

"to pay for college" was the GI bill...he didn't have to save up much (not that he was paid much for his service...but that is something else not relevant)

and apparently lives in his mother's basement and perhaps he should be whining...a college grad shouldn't need to work 2 jobs and live in his mother's basement and not have 4 days off consecutively in 4 years ...unless the 2 jobs are his folk's farm and dairy queen:funny1:


I don't blame Wall St. for my predicament either...doesn't mean I think folks are down there whining. it sounds like folks are asking for a lot but if you think of it as negotiating a contract, ya gotta ask for more than you expect to ever get in order to get something.

hope y'all make some progress.

#24 vic

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Posted 14 October 2011 - 08:25 PM

and apparently lives in his mother's basement and perhaps he should be whining


:rotf: