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What is Occupy Wall Street?


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#51 Tooozday

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Posted 06 October 2011 - 05:48 PM

I believe that a big part of the problem with loans and housing bubbles and such was that the people who made the loan knew they would be selling it right away, so it didn't matter to them if the person getting the loan was a worthwhile risk. Just make the loan fee and get out.

#52 vic

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Posted 06 October 2011 - 05:50 PM

Ive been aware, As many have, of the feds cartel since the early 90s. There have been movements against. It for a long time. Including at the time


right...just because it came to the forefront now doesn't mean it wan't always a huge problem

i think a lot of the awareness nowadays has to do with internet media technology and access to things that your nightly news didn't talk about except for maybe the 60 minutes piece here and there

access to more information has played a huge part in the people being aware and outraged...make all the mockery you want about kids using iPhones for revolutions against capitalism, but technology is useful and there is nothing wrong with using the tools needed to get where we've gotten over the past 20 days...i can't stand it when people bash this movement for using technology:bang:

#53 TakeAStepBack

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Posted 06 October 2011 - 05:51 PM

If im so wrong, how was congressman paul able to predict the bubble in housing 5 years before it happened? He also believes as i do and heads a fed audit committee

#54 concert andy

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Posted 06 October 2011 - 05:54 PM

Ive been aware, As many have, of the feds cartel since the early 90s. There have been movements against. It for a long time. Including at the time


First I have heard of a movement for this cause.

If this has been going on since the 90's please provide a link showing this to be the case.

#55 concert andy

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Posted 06 October 2011 - 05:57 PM

If im so wrong, how was congressman paul able to predict the bubble in housing 5 years before it happened? He also believes as i do and heads a fed audit committee


This point has nothing to do with your original point.

You asked where did they get the money. You said the Fed. I said no and provided a source.

Now you say, if I am wrong how come Ron Paul predicted this five years before?

If he said in 2003 that there would be a housing market crash he is a lot smarter than I have given him credit.

It does not state that the fed was giving out money to prop up the economy (which they do but in other way, they buy short term bonds BTW, not provide extra lending).

#56 concert andy

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Posted 06 October 2011 - 05:58 PM

right...just because it came to the forefront now doesn't mean it wan't always a huge problem

i think a lot of the awareness nowadays has to do with internet media technology and access to things that your nightly news didn't talk about except for maybe the 60 minutes piece here and there

access to more information has played a huge part in the people being aware and outraged...make all the mockery you want about kids using iPhones for revolutions against capitalism, but technology is useful and there is nothing wrong with using the tools needed to get where we've gotten over the past 20 days...i can't stand it when people bash this movement for using technology:bang:


In the age of information, you are using the lack of information as an excuse?

PS. I did not mock the use of technolocy. I stated the fact that people want to low costs corporations provide, but then complain about hwo they take small business jobs.

#57 concert andy

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Posted 06 October 2011 - 06:00 PM

I believe that a big part of the problem with loans and housing bubbles and such was that the people who made the loan knew they would be selling it right away, so it didn't matter to them if the person getting the loan was a worthwhile risk. Just make the loan fee and get out.


There is a lot of truth in the Flippers being part of the reason for the housing bubble.

They saw big money opportunity, and went for it.

Again, that is the draw back of capitalism.



...



PS. I am a democrat and on your side in this issue. I also like to hear what the right is saying so I can have a smart response instead of a partly right answer that can show how incorrect you really are when all the facts are presented.

PPS. I enjoy this discussion.

#58 TakeAStepBack

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Posted 06 October 2011 - 06:07 PM

Paul did predict the crash. His answer from 2003 is up on the tuber and states the fed involement vert succinctly. I wish i could be more precise, but a touch screen phone is making this hard for me. Paul syates the fed teserve authorized the credit that the lenders were given ......

#59 TakeAStepBack

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Posted 06 October 2011 - 06:08 PM

Vic or someone could you find and post?

#60 u.s.blues

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Posted 06 October 2011 - 06:10 PM

This is the part I think is funny about all of it. Get rid of corporations and rich people, but let me use my iPhone to record my revolution. And then I'll post my video on Facebook and Twitter, on how evil big corporations and companies are.


i don't understand your statement. nobody is saying to get rid of corporations. the movement is asking for corporations, wall street and the government to be run without corruption or greed. this movement is be no means anti corporation...it's anti corruption...which is a very big difference.

#61 vic

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Posted 06 October 2011 - 06:16 PM

In the age of information, you are using the lack of information as an excuse?

PS. I did not mock the use of technolocy. I stated the fact that people want to low costs corporations provide, but then complain about hwo they take small business jobs.


no...i meant and stated clearly that BEFORE this age of information common people were left in the dark about this


i didn't say you in particular mocked the use of technology, though sorry if it seemed that direct...but that sorry ass line is being used by the hecklers constantly

#62 vic

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Posted 06 October 2011 - 06:20 PM

Vic or someone could you find and post?


sure thing, sir



#63 TakeAStepBack

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Posted 06 October 2011 - 06:38 PM

That isnt the exact one, but thanks vic...it serves the purpose here..

#64 vic

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Posted 06 October 2011 - 06:56 PM

couldn't find the 2003 clip, but it's quoted and more valid points are made

#65 concert andy

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Posted 06 October 2011 - 07:08 PM

no...i meant and stated clearly that BEFORE this age of information common people were left in the dark about this


i didn't say you in particular mocked the use of technology, though sorry if it seemed that direct...but that sorry ass line is being used by the hecklers constantly


Thanks for not lumping me in there. I am trying to have a rational discussion about this BUT ...

The point I was trying to make is that ...

The age of informaton started almost 10 years ago. Meaning that there should have been more out rage about this in the last ten years, not all of a sudden this is the most urgent thing that needs to be changed or fixed.

#66 concert andy

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Posted 06 October 2011 - 07:11 PM

Paul did predict the crash. His answer from 2003 is up on the tuber and states the fed involement vert succinctly. I wish i could be more precise, but a touch screen phone is making this hard for me. Paul syates the fed teserve authorized the credit that the lenders were given ......


I think what he may have meant is that ultimately the Fed will be responsible for the large losses because of the Fed and the banks being the members of "said cartel".

Ultimately when the loans were made, the money was paid by the original lender.

But the Fed does back our deposits, and will cover the backs of corporations in the case that their may be 10's of thousands of jobs.

See the car industry that has actually made a come back, and seemed to have worked as expected.

Plus the Fed made 5 Billion on other TARP loans.

So there is good and bad in all of this.

#67 TakeAStepBack

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Posted 06 October 2011 - 07:18 PM

The fed backs our deposits on what? Weve been off a standard since 71. Printing money out of essentialy thin air. I will find the proper clip and post it later

#68 TakeAStepBack

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Posted 06 October 2011 - 07:20 PM

So you think paul is wrong and our fiat currency cant fail?

#69 concert andy

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Posted 06 October 2011 - 07:29 PM

The fed backs our deposits on what? Weve been off a standard since 71. Printing money out of essentialy thin air. I will find the proper clip and post it later


The fed gaurentees our deposits. The money you have in any bank up to 100 thousand dollars. Meaning if a big bank failed, the Fed would have to provide the money for the bank who mismanaged their money. FACT.



So you think paul is wrong and our fiat currency cant fail?


First. I never said the currency could not fail.

Not at all. I am fully aware the President Nixon took us off the gold backing of the dollar. Our economy and dollar are based on confidence in the system.
The fed has to get congress approval before it can print money.

There are draw backs to printing money. It creates inflation, and devaluing of the dollar.

Congress should be aware of this anytime they approve more money.

Another prinicpal of the trickle down.


Can you name the only global currency still back by gold?

#70 TakeAStepBack

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Posted 06 October 2011 - 07:52 PM

Yes, the fed will guarantee your shit tickets with more shit tickets. Its a house of cards once people no longer believe and that is only a matter of time to reality. The fed prints and does deals in secret with other world central bsnks...outside of congress....

#71 concert andy

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Posted 06 October 2011 - 07:56 PM

Yes, the fed will guarantee your shit tickets with more shit tickets. Its a house of cards once people no longer believe and that is only a matter of time to reality. The fed prints and does deals in secret with other world central bsnks...outside of congress....


You are way to doom and gloom.

The system is no where near collapsing. It has been 40 years since this has happened. All of a sudden it is going to collapse? Just realise if it did collapse, there would be mass chaos.

Yes it should be fixed.

Now how do you fix this system you are so worried about?

#72 concert andy

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Posted 06 October 2011 - 07:56 PM

The fed prints and does deals in secret with other world central bsnks...outside of congress....


Please provde examples of this.

#73 TakeAStepBack

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Posted 06 October 2011 - 08:14 PM

Once im less restrained i will. Hard to do from phone. And secret means just that. But thye chairman of the audit comm. Is working on finding out the extent of itt...eith much resistance.

#74 TakeAStepBack

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Posted 06 October 2011 - 08:34 PM

Fixing it is easy go back to sound currency and stop inflating a fiat currency

#75 TakeAStepBack

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Posted 06 October 2011 - 09:29 PM



Secrecy, foreign banks and govt. bail outs from the fed reserve.....for a start to my accusations. All I know is, thank goodness Ron has been willing to be ridiculed and marginalized and laughed at for years and stuck with it. Only to be proven right as this unfolds.

#76 TakeAStepBack

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Posted 06 October 2011 - 09:30 PM



#77 TakeAStepBack

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Posted 06 October 2011 - 09:33 PM

You are way to doom and gloom.

The system is no where near collapsing. It has been 40 years since this has happened. All of a sudden it is going to collapse? Just realise if it did collapse, there would be mass chaos.

Yes it should be fixed.

Now how do you fix this system you are so worried about?


It's been happening longer than 40 years....how long has the fiat inflation system been able to run in the past?
50 years, 100 years? Does it matter? The point is it isnt sustainable in the long run. It promotes no savings and unsound economics and only the bankers and their buddies seem to be profiting while the rest of us foot the bill.

#78 TakeAStepBack

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Posted 06 October 2011 - 09:41 PM



#79 TakeAStepBack

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Posted 06 October 2011 - 09:41 PM

Swaps with central foreign banks......

#80 TakeAStepBack

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Posted 06 October 2011 - 09:46 PM



#81 TakeAStepBack

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Posted 06 October 2011 - 09:51 PM



Greenspan admits that the fed reserve doesnt answer to govt. It is a private enterprise. We've all been had, brehs!

#82 TakeAStepBack

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Posted 06 October 2011 - 09:53 PM



#83 TakeAStepBack

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Posted 06 October 2011 - 09:57 PM



:one:

#84 DancingBearly

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Posted 06 October 2011 - 10:50 PM

This is the part I think is funny about all of it. Get rid of corporations and rich people, but let me use my iPhone to record my revolution. And then I'll post my video on Facebook and Twitter, on how evil big corporations and companies are.


Who wants to get rid of them? Regulate and close loopholes yes. Get rid no.

#85 TakeAStepBack

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Posted 06 October 2011 - 10:51 PM

More regulation? That hasn't seemed to work so far....

#86 concert andy

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Posted 07 October 2011 - 01:06 AM

It's been happening longer than 40 years....how long has the fiat inflation system been able to run in the past?
50 years, 100 years? Does it matter? The point is it isnt sustainable in the long run. It promotes no savings and unsound economics and only the bankers and their buddies seem to be profiting while the rest of us foot the bill.


Before I go on and read more of the responses let me address this.

40 years ago we came off the gold standard.

almost a century ago, the government figured out how to print money with out much resistance and helped them get re-elected.

My point is 40 years a 100 years, the system keeps going.

If you look at the stock market over time you will see a stead rise, all be it very slow rise with peaks and valleys but it keeps going up.

The system actually says you should save 6% of your earnings. The reason that is not mentioned today, is if you save 6% then that 6% is not going into the economy to help the recovery.

Only the bankers seem to make a profit?

Lets go over this comment.

Lehman were bankers. Their business failed, thousands of jobs lost. Because they did a bad job managing their debt.

Goldman made money because they saw it about a year out and bet people would default.

Bank of America is struggling and laying people off.

My point is bankers do not make all this money. Investment bankers make money because they manage wealthy peoples money. Not your money or my money. That means hedge funds. Do you know anything about hedge funds other than maddof?

To be an investor in a hedge fund you have to show net worth of at least million dollars and that is the bare minimum. Some start at 20 mil or higher.

They get 2% of the money. 20 mil * 2% (times the number of clients) it adds up quickly.

They are completely different than bankers but in the same business model.

#87 concert andy

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Posted 07 October 2011 - 01:06 AM

More regulation? That hasn't seemed to work so far....


As I mentioned earlier. The government needs independent regulation. Government regulation is to corrupt.

#88 TakeAStepBack

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Posted 07 October 2011 - 01:09 AM

Keep going.

#89 TakeAStepBack

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Posted 07 October 2011 - 01:11 AM

:coffee:

#90 DancingBearly

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Posted 07 October 2011 - 01:24 AM

The managers at Lehmans were too busy securing their golden tickets to care.http://www.huffingto...s_n_132258.html

#91 concert andy

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Posted 07 October 2011 - 01:42 AM

The managers at Lehmans were too busy securing their golden tickets to care.http://www.huffingto...s_n_132258.html


I agree with this point.

That was one of the three things I mentioned in my "I think I get it" point.

Government accountability, CEO pay (the 1%), and I forget the third now.

:pimp: break.

Oh and was I supposed to watch hours of video of Ron Paul saying the same stuff or finding out where the bailout money went. I am pretty well versed on the subject.

#92 concert andy

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Posted 07 October 2011 - 01:49 AM

Which one or two do I have to watch for your point to somehow have me understand.

#93 concert andy

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Posted 07 October 2011 - 02:04 AM

Greenspan admits that the fed reserve doesnt answer to govt. It is a private enterprise. We've all been had, brehs!


I will not deny that almost every branch of the government can act on its own. The fed should actually become the fourth branch of the government.

Now that we know where we stand, how do you supposed we fix it?

I am open to suggestions.

#94 concert andy

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Posted 07 October 2011 - 02:20 AM


Ok. The government pumped billions into banks over seas during the crisis. This has been doing through out its history as bernake mentions it.

The purpose of this transaction was what is call stock/cash borrowing.

All banks have to be at x in deposits if not they borrow from the fed for the night. The bank then gets deposits and returns the money to the fed "with interest".

All they were doing was doing this on a global scale. Our currency goes a lot further in distressed markets, and you make the interest back.

#95 DancingBearly

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Posted 07 October 2011 - 02:38 AM

How about corporate accountability to it's shareholders. I believe thats whats missing. Reason I posted link. The Bankers did good for them. They pissed away investors money yet due to poor management yet still received bonuses.
If I do a poor job of managing the workers under me and cost the Corp. I work for to lose $ think I will see a bonus. No because I did not deserve one for doing a poor job.

#96 TakeAStepBack

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Posted 07 October 2011 - 10:56 AM

Right. They were acting independently of congress. The exact thing you said they could not do. Where is the missing 1/2 trillion?
Why are we bailing out foreign BANKS, while the American people foot the bill?
Why are the rich banker CEOs collecting million dollar bonuses at the top level while the jobs disappear?


I will not deny that almost every branch of the government can act on its own. The fed should actually become the fourth branch of the government.

Now that we know where we stand, how do you supposed we fix it?

I am open to suggestions.


\No, the federal reserve private bank cartel is unconstitutional and should be abolished for good. The currency debasing should end immediately and a slow works towards a standard should be re-instated.

We dont need a private bank cartel as the fourth branch of govt. Wake up, concert andy.

#97 TakeAStepBack

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Posted 07 October 2011 - 11:04 AM

almost a century ago, the government figured out how to print money with out much resistance and helped them get re-elected.

My point is 40 years a 100 years, the system keeps going.


Indefinitely? Yeah......so, how long in the history of fiat money has it been able to keep going? It fails. It isnt sustainable. It is not sound. Keep drinking the kool aid.

#98 TakeAStepBack

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Posted 07 October 2011 - 11:06 AM

The purpose of this transaction was what is call stock/cash borrowing.

All banks have to be at x in deposits if not they borrow from the fed for the night. The bank then gets deposits and returns the money to the fed "with interest".

All they were doing was doing this on a global scale. Our currency goes a lot further in distressed markets, and you make the interest back.


OK. Is the "interest" going toward the national debt? Is this a private enterprise for the American people or for itself? Waking up is hard, I understand....

#99 concert andy

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Posted 07 October 2011 - 11:51 AM

Right. They were acting independently of congress. The exact thing you said they could not do. Where is the missing 1/2 trillion?
Why are we bailing out foreign BANKS, while the American people foot the bill?
Why are the rich banker CEOs collecting million dollar bonuses at the top level while the jobs disappear?

\No, the federal reserve private bank cartel is unconstitutional and should be abolished for good. The currency debasing should end immediately and a slow works towards a standard should be re-instated.

We dont need a private bank cartel as the fourth branch of govt. Wake up, concert andy.


They moved the money to make sure our currency stayed stable and there was not rampant inflation.

I said they do not print money, moving money to another bank to cover their short is not printing money.

So I stand by my statement while you piece two half truths together.

The fed has been in existence for almost a century. What you ask is not going to happen.

I did not watch the half trillion, but I assume we got it back when the foreign banks returned the money with interest.

#100 concert andy

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Posted 07 October 2011 - 11:53 AM

Indefinitely? Yeah......so, how long in the history of fiat money has it been able to keep going? It fails. It isnt sustainable. It is not sound. Keep drinking the kool aid.


How is it not sustainable?

When will it fail?

I am not drinking Kool Aid you seem to be by thinking the currency we use is about to become worthless.

What you say is true about the Fed, but the fantasy of the whole thing crumbling is so far fetched and so naive (which was my original point of Occupy) Noble but naive.