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Vic Has Arrived on Wall Street!


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#101 seany

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Posted 02 October 2011 - 04:50 PM

I'm exhausted - no sleep. thanks for all the texts. it was nice to know you were thinking of me. :heart: i was trying to text back while stuck in those stupid plastic cuff thingies - it was quite the contortionists feat :lol:


You never answered my text as to whether it was the BEST. ARREST. EVAH!!! :funny1:

#102 robberry

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Posted 02 October 2011 - 04:52 PM

option 3, which is your uninformed opinion


You can't say I'm uninformed, just because you don't agree with me.

#103 china cat

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Posted 02 October 2011 - 04:53 PM

there are very educated people down there

they are running general assemblies, staying on task, redirecting, coordinating. they're in it for the long haul and deserve respect from each of us.

and an interesting mix of people from socialist party members to ron paul supporters, to college students frustrated by lack of employment, to grannies for peace.

as far as it being a clusterfuck: they want revolution. that doesn't come neatly packaged

overall, i saw good things and met great people

#104 robberry

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Posted 02 October 2011 - 04:54 PM

non-attendees and hecklers come in and completely knock the conversation off track with some steal your man glass house crap...bravo, children:rolleyes:


I actually made some valid points, and offered suggestions on how to fix some of the problems the protesters are simply "complaining about."

It's a shame the other thread was deleted.

#105 china cat

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Posted 02 October 2011 - 04:55 PM

Meet any cute ones? :pimp: :lol: :heart:


i was goofing with the the poor rookie cop (who spent 11 hours processing us) asking him if he was single :lol: he started telling us all about his girlfriend :lol:

#106 robberry

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Posted 02 October 2011 - 04:57 PM

cool, we get it, you don't support the cause...


I support the notion for change, but instead of blindly protesting, offer some actual solutions to the grievances. Bitching about things is not going to make anything better.

You want jobs created? The government cant do it, how should we do it?

You want corruption to end? How do you suggest that happens? Who will oversee the overseers?

#107 Feck

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Posted 02 October 2011 - 04:59 PM

i'm calling for more spin on that one.

no footage of the NYPD using bull horns to tell the front of the march on the road way to turn around and leave, or be arrested and then the protesters sitting down in front of them.

at the very beginning :34, you can even see an officer trying to wave back the crowd, the rest just seem to be walking backward away from the on coming swarm. those officers clearly didn't try to stop them until mid bridge, but gave them the option to turn around and leave without arrest.
the walkway on the bridge seems very clear of foot traffic

there were no arrestes when thousand marched from brooklyn earlier in the day.

#108 robberry

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Posted 02 October 2011 - 04:59 PM

the debt crisis
overall childish partisanship
partisanship being more important then disaster relief
irresponsible tax breaks for large companies
misappropriation of government funds to failing green energy companies
continuing cuts to entitlement programs
unemployment

just to name a few points of contention that many hold


So there's a list, but where are the solutions?

#109 robberry

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Posted 02 October 2011 - 05:02 PM

Why was the "CC was arrested" thread deleted?

#110 china cat

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Posted 02 October 2011 - 05:04 PM

Why was the "CC was arrested" thread deleted?



:shocked: wha?

#111 china cat

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Posted 02 October 2011 - 05:08 PM

i'm calling for more spin on that one.

no footage of the NYPD using bull horns to tell the front of the march on the road way to turn around and leave, or be arrested and then the protesters sitting down in front of them.

at the very beginning :34, you can even see an officer trying to wave back the crowd, the rest just seem to be walking backward away from the on coming swarm. those officers clearly didn't try to stop them until mid bridge, but gave them the option to turn around and leave without arrest.
the walkway on the bridge seems very clear of foot traffic

there were no arrestes when thousand marched from brooklyn earlier in the day.


feck, i really don't know. i wasn't up front. why did the officers keep walking up the bridge? why didn't they all turn as if to block and redirect? the set up from both sides of the bridge seemed very quick and organized (as i'm sure police are trained to be quick and organized)

but, again, i really can't say for sure.

#112 Joker

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Posted 02 October 2011 - 05:08 PM

I don't know the area but the video seems to cut out at the beginning where what looks like the walkway begins then comes back when the crowd is marching down road with no place for the cops to move but ahead of the crowd.

According to the article Vic posted they did give repeated warnings


Things came to a head shortly after 4 p.m., as the 1,500 or so marchers reached the foot of the Brooklyn-bound car lanes of the bridge, just east of City Hall.

In their march north from Zuccotti Park in lower Manhattan — headquarters for the last two weeks of a protest movement against what demonstrators call inequities in the economic system — they had stayed on the sidewalks, forming a long column of humanity penned in by officers on scooters.

Where the entrance to the bridge narrowed their path, some marchers, including organizers, stuck to the generally agreed-upon route and headed up onto the wooden walkway that runs between and about 15 feet above the bridge’s traffic lanes.

But about 20 others headed for the Brooklyn-bound roadway, said Christopher T. Dunn of the New York Civil Liberties Union, who accompanied the march. Some of them chanted “take the bridge.” They were met by a handful of high-level police supervisors, who blocked the way and announced repeatedly through bullhorns that the marchers were blocking the roadway and that if they continued to do so, they would be subject to arrest.



Oops I stopped writing to get my football picks in

Edited by Joker, 02 October 2011 - 05:10 PM.
Football


#113 robberry

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Posted 02 October 2011 - 05:11 PM


Where is the beginning of the video? Why are there pedestrians already on the bridge taking pictures of the cops/march?

#114 DancingBearly

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Posted 02 October 2011 - 05:13 PM

I actually made some valid points, and offered suggestions on how to fix some of the problems the protesters are simply "complaining about."

It's a shame the other thread was deleted.


Yes I agree it is a shame.

#115 Joker

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Posted 02 October 2011 - 05:18 PM

Where is the beginning of the video? Why are there pedestrians already on the bridge taking pictures of the cops/march?

Much like some of the other videos out there they're only showing you what they want you to see rather than the entire picture. It's not right and it's certainly not going to help them in the long run :sad:

#116 robberry

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Posted 02 October 2011 - 05:20 PM

This video is about a minute after the above one:

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/Fl5R1Iuw9og" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Haven't found a video of the NYPD saying the would make arrests if they went into the vehicular lanes, but they clearly retreated. There's about a dozen officers with hundreds of people pushing them back. They made the decision to let them onto the bridge, made the call to "get the nets", and watched everyone walk into the trap.

#117 china cat

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Posted 02 October 2011 - 05:26 PM

So there's a list, but where are the solutions?


It's just gotten off the ground but a few:

overturn citizens united supreme court ruling that let corporations give more money to politicians

reinstate glass-steagall act

pass a tobin tax

create universal health care centers

raise taxes on the rich

debt forgiveness for students (not sure i'm down with that one)

and others...

why don't you help them robbery :smile:

#118 Feck

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Posted 02 October 2011 - 05:27 PM

china cat's video, at 33 seconds , right before they edit it at :34


i'm not for corp greed, but isn't that really from human greed, which i'm not really for either.

why do the arrests seem to come on the weekends ?
peaceful protesterts lead into civil disobediance by a few bad eggs to drum up more support ?

posting Radiohead will be playing to bring attention to the cause ?

posting false pictures of the size of the protest ?

#119 Feck

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Posted 02 October 2011 - 05:30 PM

Where is the beginning of the video? Why are there pedestrians already on the bridge taking pictures of the cops/march?



they do not close the sidewalks or streets unless you have a permit.
the public is allowed to use the bridge, sidewaks etc.
i even read couple was having some wedding picturs taken during the this.

#120 vic

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Posted 02 October 2011 - 05:34 PM

I support the notion for change, but instead of blindly protesting, offer some actual solutions to the grievances. Bitching about things is not going to make anything better.

You want jobs created? The government cant do it, how should we do it?

You want corruption to end? How do you suggest that happens? Who will oversee the overseers?


the questions you're asking clearly show you're not paying attention, and simply trolling

you don't support it, we get it. sit and watch then, cause you're not doing anything productive anyway.

#121 robberry

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Posted 02 October 2011 - 05:34 PM

Vic, China Cat, I really want to jump on board, and I the state of our country really sucks, but please tell me HOW the problems of this country can be fixed.

Theoretically, I should have jumped in blindly already. The economy tanked the last company I worked for, and I've been doing contract work, getting underpaid for lots of work, and am told I'm overqualified for every full-time job I interview for. I also have no health insurance. I don't see how complaining is going to make it better. I'm in survival mode, as are most people, including the government, small businesses and a few major corporations.

Yes, some corporations are using the "apparent state of the economy" to raise prices, cut costs, reduce their labor force, and see bigger profits.

Was bailing out the banks the right move, maybe? They have repaid everything except $19B (out of $245B).

Was bailing out the auto industry the right move, maybe? Did it keep these companies in business, yes. Did we save a handful of jobs, yes.

A protest of "everything" is doomed to fail (does too big to fail ring a bell?). A focus on jobs, balancing the economy, or ending the wars would get far more support. Things like global warming, political corruption, and police intimidation really need to go on the back burner right now.

#122 china cat

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Posted 02 October 2011 - 05:37 PM

feck, i didn't notice the editing, so there may be more that shows support for initial police intervention. again, i've already conceded several times that cops have a difficult job so i'm certainly not against them doing their job


i think more arrests because more people are there on the weekends--cops also gear up for the influx. there are also more outsiders with different agendas from those camped and and focused on education and peaceful protest. though, again, i didn't see any disrespectful protesters (or cops)

i'm not sure about the radio head thing? or false pics of size of protest? i'm guessing there were about 3k there.

i'm out. i need sleep.

#123 vic

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Posted 02 October 2011 - 05:39 PM

[quote name='Joker']I don't know the area but the video seems to cut out at the beginning where what looks like the walkway begins then comes back when the crowd is marching down road with no place for the cops to move but ahead of the crowd.

According to the article Vic posted they did give repeated warnings


[I]Things came to a head shortly after 4 p.m., as the 1,500 or so marchers reached the foot of the Brooklyn-bound car lanes of the bridge, just east of City Hall.

In their march north from Zuccotti Park in lower Manhattan

#124 vic

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Posted 02 October 2011 - 05:41 PM

Much like some of the other videos out there they're only showing you what they want you to see rather than the entire picture. It's not right and it's certainly not going to help them in the long run :sad:


continue to be a cops-can-do-no-wrong sympathiser...it cannot be denied that these people are non-violent. the cops are filming too, and there is nothing released in their defense. if there is it would be released to avoid a PR mess...but they already know they have plenty of people like you supporting them every step of the way:rolleyes:

#125 vic

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Posted 02 October 2011 - 05:45 PM

debt forgiveness for students (not sure i'm down with that one)


same here...why not end all credit card debt while we're at it? a bad demand that kids threw in there, which could look a little better if they demand maybe interest relief? i mean i could pay less interest back to a loanshark than a cc company.

#126 robberry

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Posted 02 October 2011 - 05:49 PM

It's just gotten off the ground but a few:

overturn citizens united supreme court ruling that let corporations give more money to politicians

reinstate glass-steagall act

pass a tobin tax

create universal health care centers

raise taxes on the rich

debt forgiveness for students (not sure i'm down with that one)

and others...

why don't you help them robbery :smile:



If this is in fact, I'm glad to see some initiative. I wish this was done BEFORE it started.



Overturn citizens united supreme court ruling. Obviously corporations should not be able to "influence" political power, but it was passed in the Republican controlled congress in 2010. Good luck with this.

The banks will find another way around their "shoddy investments." Glass-steagall act will not work for long. The SYSTEM needs to be overseen by non-partisan interests.

I don't know enough about the Tobin tax to really comment.

Obamacare is not actually enacted until 2014/5. This will be a grey area, because it will force the poor to spend $x a month on healthcare even though they can't even afford that. If they don't purchase it, they will be find (something like 25% of the monthly total). Healthcare SHOULD be free. Other countries have it, why can't we divert some of the "let's keep the White House grounds immaculately maintained funds, or take some government cars away from people who just use them to commute to and from work. Where will this money come from? For the care, and for the centers?

Congress will not pass this. (I spoke about this in the deleted thread) There is recent talk about "broadening the tax base." Which means, poor folks (making less than $20k) don't pay income tax, but soon they will have to. The soundbite is "everyone has to pay their share." This WILL pass with Republican interests of not wanting to pay more than 5% on their $200k+ income.

Debt forgiveness? Seriously? You took a loan, signed a contract, you have to pay it back. Until the government decides to offer higher education for free, people with existing loans are f'd. I'm not making $100k, but I still can't complain about the money I still owe.

#127 vic

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Posted 02 October 2011 - 05:53 PM

f
i'm not sure about the radio head thing? or false pics of size of protest? i'm guessing there were about 3k there.

i'm out. i need sleep.


we don't know who started the radiohead rumor, but wow how people use it against us

the aerial view pic was taken down when it was found to be fake

#128 robberry

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Posted 02 October 2011 - 05:56 PM

they do not close the sidewalks or streets unless you have a permit.
the public is allowed to use the bridge, sidewaks etc.
i even read couple was having some wedding picturs taken during the this.


I also suggested OWS should start applying for permits to validate their cause.

#129 Feck

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Posted 02 October 2011 - 05:56 PM

They made the decision to let them onto the bridge, made the call to "get the nets", and watched everyone walk into the trap. <!-- / message --><!-- sig -->

fact, spin, or opinion ?

who's street's ; our streets rtsrttes = civil disobediance - hopefully everyone pleads not guilty and takes the fight to the court.

the police verion of the protest video has been on the NYC TV news, i'll keep looking for a link - CBS or NBC maybe
it was in th emiddle of the bridge, not the start

why was one girl asking peaceful protesters on the bridge to come on down ?


from what i'm finding and remembering the fake photo from the other day was from a 3/5/2009 permitted protest for tax reform by DC37
the green on the trees seems a litte too artifical to be real

#130 vic

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Posted 02 October 2011 - 05:57 PM

Where will this money come from?


bloated DHS and millitary budgets? they had the money to bail out the banks didn't they?

#131 Feck

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Posted 02 October 2011 - 05:57 PM

continue to be a cops-can-do-no-wrong sympathiser...it cannot be denied that these people are non-violent. the cops are filming too, and there is nothing released in their defense. if there is it would be released to avoid a PR mess...but they already know they have plenty of people like you supporting them every step of the way:rolleyes:



it's been on th TV news all day ?

#132 Feck

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Posted 02 October 2011 - 05:58 PM

we don't know who started the radiohead rumor, but wow how people use it against us

the aerial view pic was taken down when it was found to be fake




why post it before confirming ?

#133 robberry

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Posted 02 October 2011 - 05:59 PM

the questions you're asking clearly show you're not paying attention, and simply trolling

you don't support it, we get it. sit and watch then, cause you're not doing anything productive anyway.


You keep saying that, but I'm not trolling. Did you read my 1:34pm post?

I just responded to a list CC posted. That's a start. How do you propose we fix things?

Blocking traffic and complaining without directions is not productive. Proposals are productive.

#134 vic

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Posted 02 October 2011 - 06:00 PM

why post if before confirming ?


i don't know, but you're really nitpicking for a pic that was up for about one hour

the news media has been known for doing this plenty of times, most notably faking a video of palestinians dancing in the street on 9/11 that turned out to be a celebration of some soccer game somewhere

#135 vic

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Posted 02 October 2011 - 06:01 PM

You keep saying that, but I'm not trolling. Did you read my 1:34pm post?

I just responded to a list CC posted. That's a start. How do you propose we fix things?

Blocking traffic and complaining without directions is not productive. Proposals are productive.



well then welcome to that conversation...see my post above

#136 robberry

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Posted 02 October 2011 - 06:04 PM

bloated DHS and millitary budgets? they had the money to bail out the banks didn't they?


There was numbers in the other thread. Our defense budget is about $700b. I proposed removing troops from the middle east and Korea, using 75% of the saving towards domestic defense (fortifying the country, increasing technological defense - providing jobs to US programers) and the remaining 25% towards reducing the deficit.

The banks paid all except $19B out of $245 and still have time to pay back the rest.

Do you agree with the US auto makers bail out? Was saving a few thousand US jobs worth it?

#137 Feck

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Posted 02 October 2011 - 06:05 PM

i don't know, but you're really nitpicking for a pic that was up for about one hour

the news media has been known for doing this plenty of times, most notably faking a video of palestinians dancing in the street on 9/11 that turned out to be a celebration of some soccer game somewhere



by doing the same, it makes it better or worse?

#138 robberry

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Posted 02 October 2011 - 06:06 PM

They made the decision to let them onto the bridge, made the call to "get the nets", and watched everyone walk into the trap. <!-- / message --><!-- sig -->

fact, spin, or opinion ?

who's street's ; our streets rtsrttes = civil disobediance - hopefully everyone pleads not guilty and takes the fight to the court.

the police verion of the protest video has been on the NYC TV news, i'll keep looking for a link - CBS or NBC maybe
it was in th emiddle of the bridge, not the start

why was one girl asking peaceful protesters on the bridge to come on down ?


from what i'm finding and remembering the fake photo from the other day was from a 3/5/2009 permitted protest for tax reform by DC37
the green on the trees seems a litte too artifical to be real


Opinion, that's what I saw in the video. Officers were "standing there" while the crowd walked past. If they didn't know there was a net on the other side, they probably wouldn't have stood still.

#139 Feck

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Posted 02 October 2011 - 06:11 PM

http://www.nydailyne....html?r=topnews

:dunno:

#140 robberry

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Posted 02 October 2011 - 06:12 PM

well then welcome to that conversation...see my post above


Honestly, the "Brooklyn Bridge incident" is of no consequence to me. Yeah, it took me almost three hours to get home because of you guys, but I'm over that. Did the police set you up? Possibly, but again, the signs are very clear.

Did people go to see Radiohead? I don't care.

Doctored videos? Again, I don't care.


I care about the intent, solutions and long term changes that are being proposed.

#141 vic

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Posted 02 October 2011 - 06:13 PM

by doing the same, it makes it better or worse?


it was a mistake. relax.

#142 vic

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Posted 02 October 2011 - 06:15 PM

Honestly, the "Brooklyn Bridge incident" is of no consequence to me. Yeah, it took me almost three hours to get home because of you guys, but I'm over that. Did the police set you up? Possibly, but again, the signs are very clear.

Did people go to see Radiohead? I don't care.

Doctored videos? Again, I don't care.


I care about the intent, solutions and long term changes that are being proposed.


first, you've got to get mad.

#143 Joker

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Posted 02 October 2011 - 06:15 PM

continue to be a cops-can-do-no-wrong sympathiser...it cannot be denied that these people are non-violent. the cops are filming too, and there is nothing released in their defense. if there is it would be released to avoid a PR mess...but they already know they have plenty of people like you supporting them every step of the way:rolleyes:


I've never said they do nothing wrong, in fact I've said there ARE bad cops out there. Please, don't make shit up that's just not true it ruins your credibility.

I do believe you're only kidding yourself if you don't believe there are protesters there that don't want confrontation with the police.

Why would they "release something in their defense" if they didn't do anything wrong? I'd imagine even if they do have video they won't rush right out and post it on youtube to defend themselves.

#144 u.s.blues

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Posted 02 October 2011 - 06:18 PM

I support the notion for change, but instead of blindly protesting, offer some actual solutions to the grievances. Bitching about things is not going to make anything better.

You want jobs created? The government cant do it, how should we do it?

You want corruption to end? How do you suggest that happens? Who will oversee the overseers?


i guess i see what you are saying, but the problem i see from my point of view is that these issues are not my area of expertise. it's like when my car breaks down...it is obvious that my car is not running properly, yet, not being a mechanic, i am without the tools to fix it, and with no trusted mechanic on my side it's a crap shoot that i get a fair deal.

i think a lot of people are saying that it isn't their job to fix the economy or create jobs, but they want the people in charge of said things to do their jobs appropriately.

it is really disgusting right now. just viewing the debt crisis debate between parties, is a clear view into the immaturity of our current political system.

while these protests might be a bit unorganized it could serve as a starting point for something bigger. the more people that go out and 'purposely' get arrested the more media attention is gained, and perhaps some of the people with more expertise into political policy and economics who see that media attention, will be inspired to get involved.

#145 Joker

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Posted 02 October 2011 - 06:18 PM

not gonna jump the gun, but i haven't seen any proof of this happening, and i was close enough that i would have heard a bullhorn, even if not being able to make out what was said. those of us that were on the walkway at first looked down thinking "wow they're letting them walk down there?"

this was a setup. there were more cops further along into the bridge than there were at the entrance.

Are there laws that were broken? Those of you that said "wow they're letting them walk down there?" obviously knew what you were doing was wrong so how exactly were you set up? did they force you down that way? Did they tell you it was ok to go that way?

#146 robberry

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Posted 02 October 2011 - 06:19 PM

http://www.nydailyne....html?r=topnews

:dunno:


I got to say, that video looks pretty legit to me. That is the vehicular entrance to the Brooklyn Bridge, and the officer did tell them to vacate the roadway.


Though it does keep cutting out after the protester disobey the officers orders and start marching...

#147 Feck

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Posted 02 October 2011 - 06:20 PM

http://www.nypost.co...TC-rss=


second video was clearly at the foot of the bridge, police 'turn around or get arrested' follwed by a crowd response "take the bridge" ?

#148 robberry

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Posted 02 October 2011 - 06:23 PM

first, you've got to get mad.


I am mad. I lost my job because the economy tanked.

But, I'm surviving until I get another full-time job.

I WAS FURIOUS, that it took me three hours to drive less than ten miles from Chelsea to Bay Ridge. Closing the Brooklyn Bridge, then blocking the entrance to Manhattan Bridge really pissed me off.


Getting pissed off and fighting angry is not levelheaded.

#149 robberry

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Posted 02 October 2011 - 06:28 PM

i guess i see what you are saying, but the problem i see from my point of view is that these issues are not my area of expertise. it's like when my car breaks down...it is obvious that my car is not running properly, yet, not being a mechanic, i am without the tools to fix it, and with no trusted mechanic on my side it's a crap shoot that i get a fair deal.

i think a lot of people are saying that it isn't their job to fix the economy or create jobs, but they want the people in charge of said things to do their jobs appropriately.

it is really disgusting right now. just viewing the debt crisis debate between parties, is a clear view into the immaturity of our current political system.

while these protests might be a bit unorganized it could serve as a starting point for something bigger. the more people that go out and 'purposely' get arrested the more media attention is gained, and perhaps some of the people with more expertise into political policy and economics who see that media attention, will be inspired to get involved.



I get your point too, but who should create jobs? I would propose the government starts up the WPA again. Fix our failing support systems.

Will small businesses hire when they are barely able to pay their rent and current payroll? No.

The government "tried" to fix the economy and has failed repeatedly due to poor planning and partisan interests.

I will get involved once there's structure and intent. I'm not going to go out chanting "take back our street," because that's not a good use of my time.

#150 Feck

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Posted 02 October 2011 - 06:28 PM

hopefully the next peacful march stays peacful and orgainization and control gets within the group get better.

if the plan is for no arrests, simple rules need to be followed.
if the plan is to get arrested, everyone involved should be aware of that.