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US Citizen/Al Queda leader killed in air strike in yemen


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#1 Dr. Lostreality

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Posted 30 September 2011 - 01:41 PM

http://www.nytimes.c...ner=rss&emc=rss

2 questions this brings up

1) now we kill US citizens without a trial? I guess if they are in a foreign country and we know they are a terrorist, it's ok to do away with that whole "due process" thing?

2) we're conducting air strikes in yemen?

#2 vic

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Posted 30 September 2011 - 02:00 PM

is this not the first ever assassination approved by a US president?

#3 unbroken_chain

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Posted 30 September 2011 - 02:05 PM

I think if you pretty obviously promote the killing of US Citizens you have a bright red target on your back that only goes away when a drone missile finds its sweet spot. :huh:

#4 TakeAStepBack

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Posted 30 September 2011 - 02:28 PM

Drone strikes in yemen pakistan syria.....if you make the terrorist list you have no citizen rigjts in america. We also completely killed the idea of due process and law when we began holding people indefintely and applying torture tactics.

#5 beerzrkr

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Posted 30 September 2011 - 02:48 PM

Ever since Obama took office we have been blowing shit up in Iraq, Afghanistan, Yemen, Oman, Libya, Somalia, Pakistan, and I’m sure I’ve missed a couple. But it’s OK it wasn't done by “combat troops” . Isn’t change grand? I got crucified over here when I brought up the fact that Obama wasn’t removing any troops, just planed on changing their name back in 07/08. Back then I was only assumed to be a Bush lover. Now I’m a racist.

#6 Dr. Lostreality

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Posted 30 September 2011 - 02:50 PM

pretty sure the blowing stuff up in iraq and afghanistan predated obama...

#7 beerzrkr

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Posted 30 September 2011 - 02:52 PM

pretty sure the blowing stuff up in iraq and afghanistan predated obama...


We don't have any combat troops there. Obama fixed it. :ura1:

#8 Dr. Lostreality

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Posted 30 September 2011 - 03:21 PM

We don't have any combat troops there. Obama fixed it. :ura1:


what? we don't have combat troops in Iraq/Afghanistan? that's news to me?

#9 TakeAStepBack

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Posted 30 September 2011 - 04:31 PM

pretty sure the blowing stuff up in iraq and afghanistan predated obama...


Yep. Obama is just a masked further extension of the neoconservative middleast agenda. We all drank the hope and change kool aid. Custeed

#10 Deadshow Dan

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Posted 30 September 2011 - 04:41 PM

We all drank the hope and change kool aid.

I love this revisionism.

It's not true, but nice work

#11 TakeAStepBack

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Posted 30 September 2011 - 04:42 PM

Jeep brah'd. Its not true because dan says so. Thank goodness for selective drive by

#12 Joker

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Posted 30 September 2011 - 04:44 PM

I love this revisionism.

It's not true, but nice work


Correct, some of us didn't drink it

#13 Dr. Lostreality

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Posted 30 September 2011 - 04:57 PM

http://www.nytimes.c...07yemen.html?hp (Disturbing-o comments bolded)

WASHINGTON — The Obama administration has taken the extraordinary step of authorizing the targeted killing of an American citizen, the radical Muslim cleric Anwar al-Awlaki, who is believed to have shifted from encouraging attacks on the United States to directly participating in them, intelligence and counterterrorism officials said Tuesday.

Mr. Awlaki, who was born in New Mexico and spent years in the United States as an imam, is in hiding in Yemen. He has been the focus of intense scrutiny since he was linked to Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan, the Army psychiatrist accused of killing 13 people at Fort Hood, Tex., in November, and then to Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab, the Nigerian man charged with trying to blow up a Detroit-bound airliner on Dec. 25.

American counterterrorism officials say Mr. Awlaki is an operative of Al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula, the affiliate of the terror network in Yemen and Saudi Arabia. They say they believe that he has become a recruiter for the terrorist network, feeding prospects into plots aimed at the United States and at Americans abroad, the officials said.

It is extremely rare, if not unprecedented, for an American to be approved for targeted killing, officials said. A former senior legal official in the administration of George W. Bush said he did not know of any American who was approved for targeted killing under the former president.

But the director of national intelligence, Dennis C. Blair, told a House hearing in February that such a step was possible. “We take direct actions against terrorists in the intelligence community,” he said. “If we think that direct action will involve killing an American, we get specific permission to do that.” He did not name Mr. Awlaki as a target.

The step taken against Mr. Awlaki, which occurred earlier this year, is a vivid illustration of his rise to prominence in the constellation of terrorist leaders. But his popularity as a cleric, whose lectures on Islamic scripture have a large following among English-speaking Muslims, means any action against him could rebound against the United States in the larger ideological campaign against Al Qaeda.

The possibility that Mr. Awlaki might be added to the target list was reported by The Los Angeles Times in January, and Reuters reported on Tuesday that he was approved for capture or killing.

“The danger Awlaki poses to this country is no longer confined to words,” said an American official, who like other current and former officials interviewed for this article spoke of the classified counterterrorism measures on the condition of anonymity. “He’s gotten involved in plots.”

The official added: “The United States works, exactly as the American people expect, to overcome threats to their security, and this individual — through his own actions — has become one. Awlaki knows what he’s done, and he knows he won’t be met with handshakes and flowers. None of this should surprise anyone.

As a general principle, international law permits the use of lethal force against individuals and groups that pose an imminent threat to a country, and officials said that was the standard used in adding names to the list of targets. In addition, Congress approved the use of military force against Al Qaeda after the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks. People on the target list are considered to be military enemies of the United States and therefore not subject to the ban on political assassination first approved by President Gerald R. Ford.

Both the C.I.A. and the military maintain lists of terrorists linked to Al Qaeda and its affiliates who are approved for capture or killing, former officials said. But because Mr. Awlaki is an American, his inclusion on those lists had to be approved by the National Security Council, the officials said.

At a panel discussion in Washington on Tuesday, Representative Jane Harman, Democrat of California and chairwoman of a House subcommittee on homeland security, called Mr. Awlaki “probably the person, the terrorist, who would be terrorist No. 1 in terms of threat against us.”

#14 u.s.blues

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Posted 30 September 2011 - 05:08 PM

[quote name='beerzrkr']Ever since Obama took office we have been blowing shit up in Iraq, Afghanistan, Yemen, Oman, Libya, Somalia, Pakistan, and I

#15 Dr. Lostreality

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Posted 30 September 2011 - 05:37 PM

it get's better and better...now it's TWO american citizens who were killed in the attack:

http://www.foxnews.c...-awlaki-killed/

#16 Smiles

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Posted 30 September 2011 - 05:41 PM

I'm still drinking the kool aid. I think he's doing an excellent job considering the really really shitty situation he walked into.

Did Obama fix everything we hoped? No. Did we hope for too much? Yeah, I think so.

He couldn't single handedly change every foreign and domestic policy we've put together throughout our history, designed to benefit Americans [corporations, wealthy corporation stockholders primarily] at the cost of non-Americans [including lower class people living in the US but with little or no political power]. Consider the inertia of large political organizations. Consider that the USA is not a democracy, or a republic but a complex oligarchy with a somewhat convincing facade.

The president is a stooge for the oligarchy, yeah. But he's probably one of the best stooges we've had. For his performance, I raise my cup of kool aid [strawberry-kiwi] in a toast to a better tomorrow... or at least a nicer looking facade.

#17 u.s.blues

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Posted 30 September 2011 - 05:47 PM

wait, so when did drinking the koolaid become a bad thing..? i mean this is the vibes board...no..?

#18 TakeAStepBack

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Posted 30 September 2011 - 05:51 PM

If you think this type of policy can not shift toward targeting anyone for any "national security" reason, you better get another glass of hope and change.

#19 alsoa

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Posted 30 September 2011 - 05:51 PM

I consume my kool-aid with Vodka. Lots of Vodka. :lol:

#20 Deadshow Dan

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Posted 30 September 2011 - 05:57 PM

I'm still drinking the kool aid. I think he's doing an excellent job considering the really really shitty situation he walked into.

Did Obama fix everything we hoped? No. Did we hope for too much? Yeah, I think so.

He couldn't single handedly change every foreign and domestic policy we've put together throughout our history, designed to benefit Americans [corporations, wealthy corporation stockholders primarily] at the cost of non-Americans [including lower class people living in the US but with little or no political power]. Consider the inertia of large political organizations. Consider that the USA is not a democracy, or a republic but a complex oligarchy with a somewhat convincing facade.

The president is a stooge for the oligarchy, yeah. But he's probably one of the best stooges we've had. For his performance, I raise my cup of kool aid [strawberry-kiwi] in a toast to a better tomorrow... or at least a nicer looking facade.

:goodpost:

The president is not the problem here.

#21 TakeAStepBack

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Posted 30 September 2011 - 06:01 PM

Yeah. Dan said so....

#22 vic

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Posted 30 September 2011 - 06:02 PM

:goodpost:

The president is not the problem here.


yeah well maybe who he puts in his cabinet is

in libya, yemen, pakistan, etc., you bet your ass he is the problem

i love how you've completely retreated from the libya thread, btw:rolleyes:

#23 Deadshow Dan

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Posted 30 September 2011 - 06:09 PM

i love how you've completely retreated from the libya thread, btw:rolleyes:

errr. what Libya thread? Is it over in the dustbin?

I don't hardly ever get over to the dustbin

You post there, I take it.

I don't

I don't see much reason to post there.

You are free to.

#24 Joker

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Posted 30 September 2011 - 06:12 PM

i love how you've completely retreated from the libya thread, btw:rolleyes:

That seems to be the SOP when called on something.

#25 vic

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Posted 30 September 2011 - 06:13 PM

errr. what Libya thread? Is it over in the dustbin?

I don't hardly ever get over to the dustbin

You post there, I take it.

I don't

I don't see much reason to post there.

You are free to.


http://www.gathering...ead.php?t=55654

you were quite active in the early stages of it, even after it was moved

#26 Deadshow Dan

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Posted 30 September 2011 - 06:13 PM

I jest went over to P+R for a second, and I see the thread you mean

OMG, the thread title I saw... Ron Paul... the only true anti-war candidate... as if the dude was for peace :lol:

#27 vic

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Posted 30 September 2011 - 06:14 PM

I jest went over to P+R for a second, and I see the thread you mean

OMG, the thread title I saw... Ron Paul... the only true anti-war candidate... as if the dude was for peace :lol:


:bang:

#28 Deadshow Dan

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Posted 30 September 2011 - 06:16 PM

http://www.gathering...ead.php?t=55654

you were quite active in the early stages of it, even after it was moved

What? For a couple of days or something?

I don't frequent the place.

Occasionally I drop in... especially the day/week of the moving.

That is my SOP.

That is very consistent.

Don't believe particular people that lie about me in this thread.

#29 Smiles

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Posted 30 September 2011 - 06:17 PM

1) now we kill US citizens without a trial? I guess if they are in a foreign country and we know they are a terrorist, it's ok to do away with that whole "due process" thing?


It seems that way.

from: [URL="http://www.republicmagazine.com/news/the-pentagon%E2%80%99s-official-death-squad-the-dark-heart-of-the-regime.html"]The Pentagon

#30 Joker

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Posted 30 September 2011 - 06:20 PM

SOP

Speaking of lies :lol:

http://gatheringofth...04&postcount=16


http://gatheringofth...ighlight=nurses

#31 Crayzee

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Posted 30 September 2011 - 06:30 PM

wow! yay!
great news!
adios pc of shit mother-f%^&er!!

:Phishfolk::boogie::dance:

#32 TakeAStepBack

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Posted 30 September 2011 - 06:34 PM

I jest went over to P+R for a second, and I see the thread you mean

OMG, the thread title I saw... Ron Paul... the only true anti-war candidate... as if the dude was for peace :lol:


More uneducated rhetoric regarding Ron Paul. How new. Dan said it so it must be true. No need to back up such an assertion. :lmao:

Jeep Brah'd.

#33 Deadshow Dan

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Posted 30 September 2011 - 06:45 PM

I can back it up.

He has an isolationist (see below, the correct word may be non-interventionist) policy. That's different than being for peace.


By the way, you can disagree about what I say about Rep. Paul . But calling it uneducated is rhetoric. I am quite educated about Rep. Paul and probably knew about him years before you did.

Prolly.

Almost definitely.

I'd bet on it, that's for sure.... except I'm not looking to make you take a sucker's bet

Edited by Deadshow Dan, 30 September 2011 - 07:24 PM.
down below it's disputed that it's isolationist... that instead the term non-interventionist should be used...


#34 beerzrkr

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Posted 30 September 2011 - 06:56 PM

How does free trade make one an isolationist?

#35 Deadshow Dan

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Posted 30 September 2011 - 07:06 PM

How does free trade make one an isolationist?

Since Rep. Paul has recently disputed that he is an isolationist based on that very notion.... good question.

Isolationists have no problem with free trade.

To simplify it, isolationist don't believe we should be involved in foreign policy at all... except for trading rules. Basically the idea is we (which I guess I should say we... as in we, the people... the US government) should only care what happens within our borders. Of course there needs to be border rules, which includes trade.

Do not confuse isolationist and protectionist

#36 TakeAStepBack

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Posted 30 September 2011 - 07:10 PM

I can back it up.

He has an isolationist policy. That's different than being for peace.


By the way, you can disagree about what I say about Rep. Paul . But calling it uneducated is rhetoric. I am quite educated about Rep. Paul and probably knew about him years before you did.

Prolly.

Almost definitely.

I'd bet on it, that's for sure.... except I'm not looking to make you take a sucker's bet


Noninterventionalist is way different than isolationist. Youre wrong. Which is why youre uneducated on ronpaul. Or deliberately choose to smear.

#37 beerzrkr

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Posted 30 September 2011 - 07:10 PM

http://www.merriam-w...ry/isolationism

http://www.thefreedi...om/isolationist
http://en.wikipedia....ki/Isolationism

uh, I and every dictionary I see disagrees with you Dan.

#38 Joker

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Posted 30 September 2011 - 07:12 PM

Excerpt from

[B]Ron Paul

#39 TakeAStepBack

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Posted 30 September 2011 - 07:14 PM

His foreign policy is based on friendly trade and diplomatics and staying out of foreign entanglements. Setting a good example at home is a far better policy than policing the world. But i can certainly see why you would dislike that pbilosphy.

#40 Deadshow Dan

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Posted 30 September 2011 - 07:21 PM

Noninterventionalist is way different than isolationist. Youre wrong. Which is why youre uneducated on ronpaul. Or deliberately choose to smear.

I'm not uneducated about Ron Paul. If I'm wrong about the technical definition of isolationist, then that's what I'm wrong about. See below

http://www.merriam-w...ry/isolationism

http://www.thefreedi...om/isolationist
http://en.wikipedia....ki/Isolationism

uh, I and every dictionary I see disagrees with you Dan.

I'll have to take a look at that, and see if I'm wrong about that definition.

But whether it's noninterventionalist or isolationist the fact is Ron Paul is not against these wars because he's some peace-nik. Like I said he thinks we should not "be involved in foreign policy at all... except for trading rules. Basically the idea is we (which I guess I should say we... as in we, the people... the US government) should only care what happens within our borders. Of course there needs to be border rules, which includes trade."

I believe that's isolationist, but if that's technically the wrong word, my apologies for putting the wrong term on that.

He still's no peace-nik.

#41 Julius

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Posted 30 September 2011 - 07:26 PM

http://www.nytimes.c...ner=rss&emc=rss

2 questions this brings up

1) now we kill US citizens without a trial? I guess if they are in a foreign country and we know they are a terrorist, it's ok to do away with that whole "due process" thing?

2) we're conducting air strikes in yemen?


What would you suggest as an alternative? Put US troops in harm's way to capture him at the cost of non-terrorist lives? Just let him go about his business?

#42 vic

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Posted 30 September 2011 - 07:31 PM

I'm not uneducated about Ron Paul. If I'm wrong about the technical definition of isolationist, then that's what I'm wrong about. See below

I'll have to take a look at that, and see if I'm wrong about that definition.

But whether it's noninterventionalist or isolationist the fact is Ron Paul is not against these wars because he's some peace-nik. Like I said he thinks we should not "be involved in foreign policy at all... except for trading rules. Basically the idea is we (which I guess I should say we... as in we, the people... the US government) should only care what happens within our borders. Of course there needs to be border rules, which includes trade."

I believe that's isolationist, but if that's technically the wrong word, my apologies for putting the wrong term on that.

He still's no peace-nik.


explain how obrahma is more of an anti-war candidate than ron paul (i know you didn't SAY that, but by what you're implying and your track record, you seem to think he can do better)

#43 Deadshow Dan

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Posted 30 September 2011 - 07:34 PM

explain how obrahma is more of an anti-war candidate than ron paul (i know you didn't SAY that, but by what you're implying and your track record, you seem to think he can do better)

Show some respect first.

It's President Obama

Mr. Obama

the President

then I'll address your one demand

#44 Joker

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Posted 30 September 2011 - 07:37 PM

Respect is earned

#45 TEO

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Posted 30 September 2011 - 08:11 PM

You ever talk to people that have served in those areas? The US is flying places and bombing places that many don't even know exist.

#46 vic

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Posted 30 September 2011 - 08:37 PM

Show some respect first.

It's President Obama

Mr. Obama

the President

then I'll address your one demand


wow...nice copout:rolleyes:

#47 TakeAStepBack

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Posted 30 September 2011 - 09:33 PM

I'm not uneducated about Ron Paul. If I'm wrong about the technical definition of isolationist, then that's what I'm wrong about. See below

I'll have to take a look at that, and see if I'm wrong about that definition.

But whether it's noninterventionalist or isolationist the fact is Ron Paul is not against these wars because he's some peace-nik. Like I said he thinks we should not "be involved in foreign policy at all... except for trading rules. Basically the idea is we (which I guess I should say we... as in we, the people... the US government) should only care what happens within our borders. Of course there needs to be border rules, which includes trade."

I believe that's isolationist, but if that's technically the wrong word, my apologies for putting the wrong term on that.

He still's no peace-nik.


The question was whether or not he is anti-war. Which you are some how trying to twist into peace (apparently world peace). From within the United States, that is peaceful. No wars for Americans to fight, whether financial support for others entanglements or full force war from our military.

He never once intended to champion world peace. Something that a country policing the world can not accomplish anyway and only further hurts the people of the United States.

Nice revisionism though.

#48 TakeAStepBack

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Posted 30 September 2011 - 09:34 PM

wow...nice copout:rolleyes:


Posted Image

#49 Joker

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Posted 30 September 2011 - 10:31 PM

You guys still haven't figured out what kind of guy you're dealing with yet? :lmao:

#50 TakeAStepBack

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Posted 01 October 2011 - 12:06 AM

I like Dan. I would prefer to debate intelligently on the subjects with him. I disagree a lot and sometimes completely agree. I find the selective commentary and unfounded injections unreasonable and void of true honest debate on the matters. Lately, to the point of feeling insulted and the need to make light of the responses. Maybe when there is more time to spare... :dunno: