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Vermont wind protest planned


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#101 SunshineDrummer

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 06:21 PM

So I think we can all agree that most of us would like to see less fossil fuel-generated sources of power and more alternative sources (wind, solar, geo, etc.). But how will that ever happen if no one wants the necessary infrastructure anywhere near them?

Shouldn't part of the desire/demand for alternative energy sources be a willingness to deal with it possibly being in your backyard? :dunno:

Not trying to start a war here, I'm really curious as to how people feel about it & why. Personally, I wouldn't mind a wind or solar farm near me.

#102 TEO

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 06:23 PM

So I think we can all agree that most of us would like to see less fossil fuel-generated sources of power and more alternative sources (wind, solar, geo, etc.). But how will that ever happen if no one wants the necessary infrastructure anywhere near them?

Shouldn't part of the desire/demand for alternative energy sources be a willingness to deal with it possibly being in your backyard? :dunno:

Not trying to start a war here, I'm really curious as to how people feel about it & why. Personally, I wouldn't mind a wind or solar farm near me.


You already have a large city near you at least from where I live it seems that way.

#103 CTMuleman

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 06:24 PM

If you plant ice you're gonna harvest wind!

#104 hoagie

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 06:25 PM

Teo, please tell us your personal stance on the issue? It is not clear from your varied responses.

#105 SunshineDrummer

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 06:26 PM

You already have a large city near you at least from where I live it seems that way.


Yes, I'm on Long Island in the suburbs.

I live about 25 miles outside of NYC but I can't see it from my house, so its not lie that's my "view". But why is that important?

#106 Deadshow Dan

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 06:27 PM

Yeah, it's huge to me too. I live in a town of 400 :wink: But it's only about 10k bigger than Ithaca. :wink:

Nah, the area is 100,000 bigger than our entire county.

#107 Deadshow Dan

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 06:28 PM

You're including those weirdos in Winooski?

Wiki is ;)

Well duh, Burlington is a city.

Put 'em near there

#108 TEO

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 06:28 PM

Yes, I'm on Long Island in the suburbs.

I live about 25 miles outside of NYC but I can't see it from my house, so its not lie that's my "view". But why is that important?



Noise, congestion, lack of wildlife, economy not based on country living ambience, etc.

#109 Deadshow Dan

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 06:29 PM

Teo, please tell us your personal stance on the issue? It is not clear from your varied responses.

#110 TEO

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 06:29 PM

Vermont National Guard Solar Project at Burlington Airport

http://sanders.senat...5e-911283dc32a1

#111 GoPlastic

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 06:29 PM

gotcha, and I agree


:thup:

You already have a large city near you at least from where I live it seems that way.


we recently had an offshore wind farm project shut down on economic and aesthetic grounds. because people don't want to see tiny fan blades 10 miles from where they go swimming. :bang:

there is a new, better proposal in the works, which when complete will generate as much electricity as a single nuclear reactor, 14 miles off the Rockaways. :Phishfolk:

here's hoping they have the balls to pass this...

#112 TEO

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 06:30 PM

Posted Image

#113 Shake Yer Bones

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 06:32 PM

What are the lawsuits for? Was someone injured? Or are people actually suing b/c they feel that their view of property they don't own is worthy of litigation?

I'm not trying to argue with anyone here, I'm just curious. We can't control what happens on property that is not ours, so unless you own every speck of land that you can fit into your view, there is little one can do about it.

What if your neighbour decided to cut down all of their trees for instance? That would be ugly, too.

I wake up and see ugly things that I can't do anything about every day. I can't move the car dealership with it's bright blazing lights. I can't tell all the buildings to install green roofs so I don't have to look at the tar and pebbles. I can't do anything about the people across the lake who cut down all of the trees and eradicated every scrap of vegetation from their property... I know people don't like change and want to protect their views and such, but if it's not yours to begin with, you can either accept it or move on. How can someone dictate to another in terms of what they choose to use their property for if it falls within the zoning laws? :dunno:


You most certainly can do something about all that. You can choose where you live. That's why I moved to where I am, and I know for a fact we're not zoned for wind turbines on a commercial level.

But to answer your question, the lawsuits are over a couple of the towers collapsing, but mostly from the turbines making much more noise than originally promised by the developers. Apparently, residents were told they'd hear nothing from beyond 900 feet but residents are claiming they're being kept awake at night by the noise from turbines that are 2,000 feet away.


So I think we can all agree that most of us would like to see less fossil fuel-generated sources of power and more alternative sources (wind, solar, geo, etc.). But how will that ever happen if no one wants the necessary infrastructure anywhere near them?

Shouldn't part of the desire/demand for alternative energy sources be a willingness to deal with it possibly being in your backyard? :dunno:

Not trying to start a war here, I'm really curious as to how people feel about it & why. Personally, I wouldn't mind a wind or solar farm near me.


I've nothing against wind power or even turbines, but I don't want them where I live. Put them on top of existing buildings in the city, or in places where residents already are used to seeing structures.

#114 MeOmYo

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 06:32 PM

I think that's the biggest problem in the rural areas is they want to use "our resources" and they send the fruits of those resources to the big markets (the big cities). what do we get out of it aside from a non-lubed ass ramming from eminent domain and maybe a short boost in the local economy from selling the imported workers a few lunches?

#115 TEO

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 06:32 PM

Teo, please tell us your personal stance on the issue? It is not clear from your varied responses.


So you can once again commence with the name calling, nope. :lol:

#116 GoPlastic

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 06:32 PM

Vermont National Guard Solar Project at Burlington Airport

http://sanders.senat...5e-911283dc32a1


awesome. :Phishfolk:

#117 Shake Yer Bones

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 06:35 PM

I think that's the biggest problem in the rural areas is they want to use "our resources" and they send the fruits of those resources to the big markets (the big cities). what do we get out of it aside from a non-lubed ass ramming from eminent domain and maybe a short boost in the local economy from selling the imported workers a few lunches?


That definitely factors into my thinking. Hemlock Lake is 5 minutes from me and I can't drink the water because it's shipped to Rochester. Grrrr. :lol:

#118 TEO

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 06:36 PM


I've nothing against wind power or even turbines, but I don't want them where I live. Put them on top of existing buildings in the city, or in places where residents already are used to seeing structures.



Would be great if they could do such rather than disrupt pristine landscapes that are used to drive a state's economy.

#119 GoPlastic

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 06:36 PM

I've nothing against wind power or even turbines, but I don't want them where I live. Put them on top of existing buildings in the city, or in places where residents already are used to seeing structures.


I think that's the biggest problem in the rural areas is they want to use "our resources" and they send the fruits of those resources to the big markets (the big cities). what do we get out of it aside from a non-lubed ass ramming from eminent domain and maybe a short boost in the local economy from selling the imported workers a few lunches?


the government could always start charging a "rural good-lookin' energy transportation surcharge"...if you don't live within pissing distance of the source of your electricity, you start paying by the mile for its transmission? and if you can't see a wind turbine from your kitchen window, you may double the fee. :lol:

#120 TEO

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 06:37 PM

I'd be cool to have wind turbines on vehicles.

#121 Deadshow Dan

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 06:41 PM

I think that's the biggest problem in the rural areas is they want to use "our resources" and they send the fruits of those resources to the big markets (the big cities). what do we get out of it aside from a non-lubed ass ramming from eminent domain and maybe a short boost in the local economy from selling the imported workers a few lunches?

Yeah, look at what these NY hydrofracking DEIS has.

Hydrofracking is way too dangerous for the NYC and Syracuse drinking waters... wherever they are.

But they could give a crap about everyone else's water. Frack away

:rolleyes:

#122 deadheadskier

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 06:41 PM

I would NEVER go skiing on a mountain that had visible windmills. The whole point is being away from anything man-made. Ski lifts are a necessary evil.


I think it's great that ski mountains are putting up wind turbines to offset their energy usage. Ski resorts use a tremendous amount of energy making snow. The turbines are a step in a more sustainable direction.

Bolton has one. Burke put one in this summer. Jimminy Peak has one.

#123 Deadshow Dan

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 06:42 PM

So you can once again commence with the name calling, nope. :lol:

oh
my
gawd
:eek:

#124 SunshineDrummer

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 06:43 PM

Noise, congestion, lack of wildlife, economy not based on country living ambience, etc.


Depends on where you are on Long Island.

I'm not in an urban area and its really not that congested or noisy by be. Its actually quite peaceful for the most part. I'm on the western end of the Island so its much more "suburban" by me, but I've spent time all over Long Island throughout my life and the further east you go on the Island, the more spread out things become, more wildlife, more farms, less traffic, etc. and the economy depends more on tourism & ambience out there.

But the kind of area where we live isn't really the crux of my question. IMHO, it doesn't matter if I live in a shoebox apartment in NYC, in the 'burbs somewhere or on several acres in rural VT..... if my wish is to see a change to alterative energy sources, don't I bear a responsibility to accept the infrastructure into my area if that's the way if goes? Is it fair of me to demand that change yet protest the infrastructure in my hometown?

#125 deadheadskier

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 06:45 PM

I think that's the biggest problem in the rural areas is they want to use "our resources" and they send the fruits of those resources to the big markets (the big cities). what do we get out of it aside from a non-lubed ass ramming from eminent domain and maybe a short boost in the local economy from selling the imported workers a few lunches?


What do those big market cities give you? They pay for your roads, your schools, etc. They support your local agriculture industry. It certainly isn't the tax money generated at the local 7-11s paying for all of that.

New York State would be freaking screwed if it weren't for New York City.

#126 MeOmYo

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 06:45 PM

the government could always start charging a "rural good-lookin' energy transportation surcharge"...if you don't live within pissing distance of the source of your electricity, you start paying by the mile for its transmission? and if you can't see a wind turbine from your kitchen window, you may double the fee. :lol:


beleive me, I'm pretty sure I pay that already.

#127 TEO

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 06:46 PM

We already have them next door in Searsburg and they are not performing as touted.

#128 GoPlastic

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 06:48 PM

beleive me, I'm pretty sure I pay that already.


there are certain transmission fees, absolutely. i'm saying more aesthetic transmission fees...a completely ridiculous concept, unless of course it's not...:lol:

#129 MeOmYo

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 06:58 PM

What do those big market cities give you? They pay for your roads, your schools, etc. They support your local agriculture industry. It certainly isn't the tax money generated at the local 7-11s paying for all of that.

New York State would be freaking screwed if it weren't for New York City.


I'm quite certain there is more money funneled down state than money funneled upstate. I have no facts to back that up but I'd be willing to bet on it.

#130 Julius

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 07:03 PM

I think it's great that ski mountains are putting up wind turbines to offset their energy usage. Ski resorts use a tremendous amount of energy making snow. The turbines are a step in a more sustainable direction.

Bolton has one. Burke put one in this summer. Jimminy Peak has one.


Put one atop Mt Washington and I break your face.

(Yes I know that's not VT but same goes for Jay Peak.)

#131 Deadshow Dan

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 07:06 PM

I'm quite certain there is more money funneled down state than money funneled upstate. I have no facts to back that up but I'd be willing to bet on it.

This is due to more poverty per capita (combined with higher cost of living) downstate.

Though I do recall something about it depending on how you define upstate.

Anyway, I'm pretty sure you're right.

Though it is true that NYS agriculture is bought in the cities

#132 Zero419

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 07:23 PM

I can't believe this is even a debate.
You want the lights on? You want to stop burning fossil fuel? You don't like nuclear power?

Your worried about your view!?!?!

I'll bet your heads will explode when you have something actually worth complaining about.

#133 TEO

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 07:27 PM

I can't believe this is even a debate.
You want the lights on? You want to stop burning fossil fuel? You don't like nuclear power?

Your worried about your view!?!?!

I'll bet your heads will explode when you have something actually worth complaining about.


That is constructive.

#134 Zero419

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 07:32 PM

I just don't get it. If there is no health risk, why complain?
It's a million times better than the alternative.

#135 Shake Yer Bones

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 08:14 PM

Why complain? Because it's my view that is potentially ruined. I don't want that garbage near me. It really is that simple.

#136 Jam Fan

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 08:15 PM

FWIW, my old roommate from college is a bird expert and does radar surveys for a lot of these wind projects. I spent a couple days with him doing this for a Niagra Mohawk project up near Rochester. It basically consists of sitting in a radar truck in the middle of the night during migration season and counting birds. For weeks on end. Weeks and weeks...

While most birds are only active during the day, the low-flying, smaller ones that are likely to be impacted by windmills migrate at night to avoid larger predatory birds.


i have a friend in the same field. from my understanding, birds don't impact with the turbines nearly as often as people think. they fly past or between the slow moving blades quite easily.

Bats on the other hand are attracted to the sound of the blade tips cutting the air.

#137 freerange

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 08:41 PM

the province has placed a moratorium upon their existence here.
until more information becomes available regarding wind turbine syndrome and the nimby lobby gets its day in court nothing new will be built in ontario
this of course after the provincial gov't has funded alternative energy startups to the tune of paying ten times market rate on the taxpayer
the premium rate would be easier to take if in fact they could connect these startup energy farms to the grid
they haven't been able to achieve any results in 8 years as the grid can't be rerouted to a small plurality of systems
quebec hydro is much cheaper and more reliable for my dollar in ontario
our gov''t refused a deal from hydro quebec based upon the chance quebec would leave canada and renege on deals
we get to vote the liberal gov't out of ontario very shortly for their idiocy
chances are though we won't
there are good reasons for a healthy debate on turbines
new designs are being developed all the time
if i were vt i would get innovative about a design that fits vt taking all things into account

Edited by freerange, 29 September 2011 - 08:42 PM.
sp


#138 Jam Fan

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 08:52 PM

new designs are being developed all the time


Posted Image

Japanese researchers say that they've discovered a simple way to make wind turbines up to three times as efficient.

Google: japan wind lens

#139 DancingBearly

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 08:54 PM

Would that view remain if they were to populate every mountaintop so there were no more unspoiled mountains to be viewed?


Good thing they have not discovered big deposits of coal or they could be blasting off those mountain tops ala Tennasee.

#140 GoPlastic

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 08:58 PM

Posted Image

Japanese researchers say that they've discovered a simple way to make wind turbines up to three times as efficient.

Google: japan wind lens


i saw that movie. it was ok.

Posted Image

#141 Eco

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 08:59 PM

St Johnsbury?


Lol, when 20 years ago? The town screwed up demanding too much out of Home Depot and that is why they are starving while Littleton NH has everything (jobs oh and an economy). Other than Maple Grove and Fairbanks scales if they are still around, St Johnsbury has nothing....seeing as I grew up one town over and left.....hence leaving them with nothing. You could put a nuclear power plant in the center of town if you paid everyone in town a dollar a year and they would jump with joy. :monkey:

#142 Eco

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 09:10 PM

I think it's great that ski mountains are putting up wind turbines to offset their energy usage. Ski resorts use a tremendous amount of energy making snow. The turbines are a step in a more sustainable direction.

Bolton has one. Burke put one in this summer. Jimminy Peak has one.


Good for them! Seeing as how they have plenty of wind and need all sorts of power to run the pumps and such it's a natural win win. Plus I don't people riding a chairlift give two shits about anything but reaching the top so they can ski and then repeat the process over and over again.

Just wondering since the windfarms have cut off speeds if mountain locations would provide too much wind?

#143 freerange

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 09:17 PM

the medium to large to gargantuan ski resorts can be as natural as golf courses

#144 capt_morgan

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 09:18 PM

i think its pretty....they can put one in my yard:dunno:

#145 TEO

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 10:35 PM

Lol, when 20 years ago? The town screwed up demanding too much out of Home Depot and that is why they are starving while Littleton NH has everything (jobs oh and an economy). Other than Maple Grove and Fairbanks scales if they are still around, St Johnsbury has nothing....seeing as I grew up one town over and left.....hence leaving them with nothing. You could put a nuclear power plant in the center of town if you paid everyone in town a dollar a year and they would jump with joy. :monkey:



:lol: Perhaps, same thing Brattleboro did by denying Walmart.
I used to work at Maple Grove Honey Museum located right here in Wilmington, what a company. :spank:

#146 Eco

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Posted 30 September 2011 - 12:23 AM

My father worked for them for like a month back in the 80's, we loved the free flavored maple syrup and the rest of their products but that came to an end when he quit to return a a real job and we went back to fake maple syrup....:sad:

Lol, growing up we went there every year for a class field trip.....options were limited....that or the granite quarry in Barre or the dusty museum in St J.

On the St J and Depot thingy, they asked Depot for a set of demands that were met, then they added some more demands....and then some more......greed served the leaders of that town a large serving of depression.

#147 Tabbooma

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Posted 30 September 2011 - 12:26 AM

Tabbooma likes wind :smile:

#148 TEO

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Posted 30 September 2011 - 12:26 AM

What a bummer, too bad more VT towns did not learn from that example.

#149 capt_morgan

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Posted 30 September 2011 - 12:27 AM

Tabbooma likes wind :smile:


especially breaking wind

#150 DancingBearly

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Posted 30 September 2011 - 12:36 AM

I would NEVER go skiing on a mountain that had visible windmills. The whole point is being away from anything man-made. Ski lifts are a necessary evil.

Better get rid of the lodge too cause it's man-made.