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Vermont wind protest planned


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#51 Deadshow Dan

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 05:28 PM

better than hydro-fracking.

I thought I wouldn't like the way wind turbines looked, but when I've seen them I've actually thought hey looked fine.

That said I think i depends on where. I think they belong in places like going down the PA pike northeast extension Near large population centers.

#52 TEO

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 05:29 PM

better than hydro-fracking.

I thought I wouldn't like the way wind turbines looked, but when I've seen them I've actually thought hey looked fine.

That said I think i depends on where. I think they belong in places like going down the PA pike northeast extension Near large population centers.



There aren't many large population centers in VT. :wink:

#53 hoagie

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 05:29 PM

Years back perhaps, however now that we have so many transplants I wouldn't be so certain.


well, looks like there will be wind turbines on every mountaintop eventually...

#54 TEO

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 05:30 PM

well, looks like there will be wind turbines on every mountaintop eventually...


Only if they get them done before 2012. :wink:

#55 Deadshow Dan

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 05:34 PM

There aren't many large population centers in VT. :wink:

Burlington is HUGE in my book, as well as a number of other places

#56 hoagie

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 05:34 PM

Brattleboro, Manchester, Rutland

#57 TEO

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 05:35 PM

I could deal with one in my backyard. Wonder what the neighbor would think? :devil:

#58 TEO

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 05:35 PM

Burlington is HUGE in my book, as well as a number of other places


Burlington, Rutland, St Johnsbury?

#59 JBetty

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 05:36 PM

Failing, which stories are you listening to? :wink:



News stories and stories from people who live near by.

Didn't it shut down for a time just last year because of crap leaking into the CT River?
Isn't this an ongoing problem?
Aren't they concerned about structural damage from the earthquake?
Hasn't Yankee been plagued with problems for quite some time now?
Wasn't it built to only last 40 years?

#60 TEO

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 05:37 PM

News stories and stories from people who live near by.

Didn't it shut down for a time just last year because of crap leaking into the CT River?
Isn't this an ongoing problem?
Aren't they concerned about structural damage from the earthquake?
Hasn't Yankee been plagued with problems for quite some time now?
Wasn't it built to only last 40 years?


Yes, however no similar issues have kept it shut in the past.

#61 Deadshow Dan

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 05:42 PM

Brattleboro, Manchester, Rutland


Burlington, Rutland, St Johnsbury?

umm sure...

I hear ya that they're not THAT big ;)

#62 Lazy Lightning

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 05:42 PM

Like you said, not all eyes see the same but the one difference I would point out is that you have passed through these areas. You're not living there. You don't have to wake up to them and see them every day. The ones I mentioned that are south of me have been nothing but nightmares for residents and last I knew, there were lawsuits against the corporation that installed them.


What are the lawsuits for? Was someone injured? Or are people actually suing b/c they feel that their view of property they don't own is worthy of litigation?

I'm not trying to argue with anyone here, I'm just curious. We can't control what happens on property that is not ours, so unless you own every speck of land that you can fit into your view, there is little one can do about it.

What if your neighbour decided to cut down all of their trees for instance? That would be ugly, too.

I wake up and see ugly things that I can't do anything about every day. I can't move the car dealership with it's bright blazing lights. I can't tell all the buildings to install green roofs so I don't have to look at the tar and pebbles. I can't do anything about the people across the lake who cut down all of the trees and eradicated every scrap of vegetation from their property... I know people don't like change and want to protect their views and such, but if it's not yours to begin with, you can either accept it or move on. How can someone dictate to another in terms of what they choose to use their property for if it falls within the zoning laws? :dunno:

#63 Lazy Lightning

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 05:46 PM

Years back perhaps, however now that we have so many transplants I wouldn't be so certain.


I will hope that they have their heads on straight, TEO. I don't want to see the ruin of our wilderness either, but we do need to find a new way to make things work. We've turned the corner. Sense would dictate finding a compromise, altho I do understand that this may come at a cost to someone, somewhere. One would hope that the placement of the turbines would decided by both an environmental and rate-of-return assessment, and located in concentrations rather than spread out - it would make the most sense economically (maintenance, etc...) and since everyone does things for the almighty dollar, that may play into favour.

Let's hope the transplants are there b/c they love the region and the wilderness and would take that all into account. :)

#64 seany

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 05:47 PM

Posted Image


This.

Ironically, I imagine that a lot of the people that are against wind power on their nearby mountains - and it would need to be on mountain peaks, the winds in VT are fairly minimal - are also against VT Yankee staying open. I guess we should just count on all of our power from coming from hydro Quebec :dunno:

#65 GoPlastic

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 05:48 PM

I don't disagree. Those things look horrible too. So if you want to tear those down and install wind turbines, go right ahead. My point is that I'm in an area that has nothing. And that's the way I want it to stay.


good for you. :lol:

I think they would be great for places with ski areas as they already marr the mountains. Would this impact tourists skiing at VT mountains? I have no clue.


if the tourists skiing are too busy looking at the wind turbines and not watching where they're skiing, there's bound to be an "impact" or two, that's for sure. which is good for VT's hospitals, because they'd get more business...as would the local morgues. :headphones:

could you describe the nightmare?


yes, where's the nightmare here? are the turbines killing birds by the gross and flinging them into people's homes where their families sleep, where their children play with their toys? because that would be a problem, yes. anything short of that...doesn't so much qualify as "nightmare" scenario.

What are the lawsuits for? Was someone injured? Or are people actually suing b/c they feel that their view of property they don't own is worthy of litigation?

I'm not trying to argue with anyone here, I'm just curious. We can't control what happens on property that is not ours, so unless you own every speck of land that you can fit into your view, there is little one can do about it.

What if your neighbour decided to cut down all of their trees for instance? That would be ugly, too.

I wake up and see ugly things that I can't do anything about every day. I can't move the car dealership with it's bright blazing lights. I can't tell all the buildings to install green roofs so I don't have to look at the tar and pebbles. I can't do anything about the people across the lake who cut down all of the trees and eradicated every scrap of vegetation from their property... I know people don't like change and want to protect their views and such, but if it's not yours to begin with, you can either accept it or move on. How can someone dictate to another in terms of what they choose to use their property for if it falls within the zoning laws? :dunno:


you so smart, it scawy.

#66 Deadshow Dan

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 05:48 PM

SYB, I do think the viewshed is a legitimate issue in general. In rural areas especially

#67 TEO

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 05:48 PM

Let's hope the transplants are there b/c they love the region and the wilderness and would take that all into account. :)


That is always the hope and some are. Unfortunately there are also a seeming large number who attempt to change VT into that which they left.

#68 TEO

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 05:50 PM

yes, where's the nightmare here? are the turbines killing birds by the gross and flinging them into people's homes where their families sleep, where their children play with their toys? because that would be a problem, yes. anything short of that...doesn't so much qualify as "nightmare" scenario.


Birds and other wildlife are negatively impacted for certain.

#69 Deadshow Dan

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 05:51 PM

There's a turbine at Bolton ski resort. Looks fine

#70 TEO

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 05:51 PM

This.

Ironically, I imagine that a lot of the people that are against wind power on their nearby mountains - and it would need to be on mountain peaks, the winds in VT are fairly minimal - are also against VT Yankee staying open. I guess we should just count on all of our power from coming from hydro Quebec :dunno:


Because of course we don't care about Canadian Inuits. :sad:

#71 TEO

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 05:52 PM

There's a turbine at Bolton ski resort. Looks fine


One?

#72 Lazy Lightning

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 05:52 PM

yes, where's the nightmare here? are the turbines killing birds by the gross and flinging them into people's homes where their families sleep, where their children play with their toys? because that would be a problem, yes. anything short of that...doesn't so much qualify as "nightmare" scenario.


:rotf:

You just made me spit up my tea!!! :lol:

#73 Lazy Lightning

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 05:53 PM

Unfortunately there are also a seeming large number who attempt to change VT into that which they left.


No accounting for taste, I guess. I've seen this before and don't understand it, myself.

#74 TEO

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 05:53 PM

A few from Searsburg, VT.

#75 TEO

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 05:54 PM

http://www.aweo.org/windsearsburg.html

#76 Julius

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 05:56 PM

I think they would be great for places with ski areas as they already marr the mountains. Would this impact tourists skiing at VT mountains? I have no clue.


I would NEVER go skiing on a mountain that had visible windmills. The whole point is being away from anything man-made. Ski lifts are a necessary evil.

#77 TEO

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 05:56 PM

HATH, are you even certain of my stance on the issue?

#78 MeOmYo

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 05:56 PM

I agree with the the impact on birds. These wind mills are set up in air streams, the same ones migratory birds use to travel.

#79 hoagie

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 05:56 PM



OMG they finally Jersey'd Vermont!! :Phishfolk:

#80 TEO

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 05:56 PM

I would NEVER go skiing on a mountain that had visible windmills. The whole point is being away from anything man-made. Ski lifts are a necessary evil.


Way to be a buzz kill.

#81 seany

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 05:57 PM

Burlington is HUGE in my book, as well as a number of other places


Burlington is not much bigger than Ithaca. ~40k. The entire population of the state of VT is only 625k+

#82 Lazy Lightning

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 05:57 PM

I am certain that lots of people thought that the ski slopes and necessary equipment were ruining their views when they first came along, too.

#83 Deadshow Dan

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 05:57 PM

One?

:dunno:

I was skiing and having a might fine time with my friend and at times, some boardies. So I wasn't paying too close attention to the energy install

#84 GoPlastic

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 05:57 PM

Birds and other wildlife are negatively impacted for certain.


birds and wildlife are negatively impacted by any and every piece of human development, anywhere. that's a fool comment to bring to the table, because it's unilaterally true. animals absolutely die because of wind turbines generating power and solar panels generating power and oil/coal burning plants generating power and nuclear plants generating power and geothermal plants generating power and hydroelectric plants generating power or...you get the idea. and it's not a lawsuit-worthy issue unless said dead animals are being hurled towards the bay window in your living room, at which point there's a problem.

#85 TEO

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 05:57 PM

OMG they finally Jersey'd Vermont!! :Phishfolk:




Damn them! :spank:

#86 Julius

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 05:58 PM

Well I'd also rather drive the extra hour or two to get to Smugs or Jay rather than Stowe or K-ton.

#87 Deadshow Dan

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 06:00 PM

Burlington is not much bigger than Ithaca. ~40k. The entire population of the state of VT is only 625k+

I have to think that's technical, and that the Burlington area has .... 200,000? maybe more.

Someone look it up!

#88 MeOmYo

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 06:01 PM

birds and wildlife are negatively impacted by any and every piece of human development, anywhere. that's a fool comment to bring to the table, because it's unilaterally true. animals absolutely die because of wind turbines generating power and solar panels generating power and oil/coal burning plants generating power and nuclear plants generating power and geothermal plants generating power and hydroelectric plants generating power or...you get the idea. and it's not a lawsuit-worthy issue unless said dead animals are being hurled towards the bay window in your living room, at which point there's a problem.


so you're saying they should not consider environmental impact on a growing industry because we've been doing it for years and every other competing industry has a negative impact?

now that's a fool comment!

#89 GoPlastic

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 06:01 PM

http://www.aweo.org/windsearsburg.html


proper research must be done before starting any project of this nature. if the windmills can't perform at or near maximum efficiency, then of course they shouldn't be built.

#90 TEO

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 06:02 PM

Burlington is the largest city in the U.S. state of Vermont and the shire town (county seat)[5] of Chittenden County.[6] Burlington lies 45 miles (72 km) south of the U.S.-Canadian (Vermont-Quebec) border and some 94 miles (151 km) south of Montreal. Burlington had a population of 42,417 at the 2010 census. The city is the hub of the Burlington-South Burlington metropolitan area, consisting of the three northwestern Vermont counties of Chittenden, Franklin and Grand Isle and encompassing the cities of Burlington, South Burlington, and Winooski; the towns of Colchester, Essex, and Williston; and the village of Essex Junction. According to 2009 U.S. Census estimates, the metro area had an estimated population of 208,055, approximately one third of Vermont's total population.[7][8]

From Wikipedia

#91 Deadshow Dan

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 06:03 PM

huge ;)

#92 robberry

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 06:04 PM

So a sea of solar panels is better than a see of wind turbines? I don't get it hippies...

#93 Julius

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 06:04 PM

I have to think that's technical, and that the Burlington area has .... 200,000? maybe more.

Someone look it up!


You're including those weirdos in Winooski?

#94 GoPlastic

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 06:09 PM

so you're saying they should not consider environmental impact on a growing industry because we've been doing it for years and every other competing industry has a negative impact?

now that's a fool comment!


that's not at all what i'm saying. what i'm saying is that the very nature of human development has a negative impact on the environment. we need to weigh the balances of good and bad very carefully with regard to nature concerns. i'm willing to venture a guess that when you look at the process of building/installing/operating a wind turbine and weigh it against the process of extracting/refining/burning oil or coal, mining/enriching/fission-ing uranium, or damming a river, you're probably going to find the environmental impact much more balanced when you look at the wind turbine.

#95 seany

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 06:11 PM

FWIW, my old roommate from college is a bird expert and does radar surveys for a lot of these wind projects. I spent a couple days with him doing this for a Niagra Mohawk project up near Rochester. It basically consists of sitting in a radar truck in the middle of the night during migration season and counting birds. For weeks on end. Weeks and weeks...

While most birds are only active during the day, the low-flying, smaller ones that are likely to be impacted by windmills migrate at night to avoid larger predatory birds.

#96 MeOmYo

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 06:12 PM

that's not at all what i'm saying. what i'm saying is that the very nature of human development has a negative impact on the environment. we need to weigh the balances of good and bad very carefully with regard to nature concerns. i'm willing to venture a guess that when you look at the process of building/installing/operating a wind turbine and weigh it against the process of extracting/refining/burning oil or coal, mining/enriching/fission-ing uranium, or damming a river, you're probably going to find the environmental impact much more balanced when you look at the wind turbine.


gotcha, and I agree

#97 hoagie

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 06:13 PM

"Scrape em off Claire; you wanna save somebody? Save yourself."

#98 seany

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 06:14 PM

huge ;)


Yeah, it's huge to me too. I live in a town of 400 :wink: But it's only about 10k bigger than Ithaca. :wink:

#99 TEO

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 06:17 PM

So a sea of solar panels is better than a see of wind turbines? I don't get it hippies...


Ever listen to the wind turbines? Get a bunch of them and they can make quite a noise.

#100 TEO

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 06:18 PM

huge ;)


Well duh, Burlington is a city.