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Vermont wind protest planned


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#1 TEO

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 03:38 PM

Heard about this on NPR.

http://blogs.burling...rotest-planned/

#2 MeOmYo

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 03:41 PM

I'm not sure I can get on board with the anti-wind sentiment. keep buying coal power if you wanna see "harm to waterways and wildlife"

#3 shadeelady

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 03:43 PM

i don't understand something....how do wind turbines cause harm to waterways?

#4 TEO

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 03:45 PM

It is quite interesting. I get not wanting all the mountains topped with wind turbines, but then again we have nuclear power and hydro from a flooded town.

#5 MeOmYo

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 03:49 PM

i don't understand something....how do wind turbines cause harm to waterways?


My understanding, in part is due to the renovation of a mountain top. this will most certainly "change" the runoff and mirk up the waterways until everything stabilizes. somewhat short terms affects IMO.

#6 Julius

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 03:51 PM

Big issue out here too. The practical part of it (because you know how worked up I get about having outrage for everything) is difficulty of transmitting the power once generated. The fact of it being such an eyesore is also a big deal here, I'd imagine even more so in VT.

I'm a big fan of focusing green efforts where they have the most impact: more solar stations in AZ, NV, CA, more wind farms on the high-wind plains.

#7 TEO

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 03:53 PM

Big issue out here too. The practical part of it (because you know how worked up I get about having outrage for everything) is difficulty of transmitting the power once generated. The fact of it being such an eyesore is also a big deal here, I'd imagine even more so in VT.

I'm a big fan of focusing green efforts where they have the most impact: more solar stations in AZ, NV, CA, more wind farms on the high-wind plains.


Agreed and yest it is a big deal here due to the fact that Vermont's economy is driven by tourism.

#8 GoPlastic

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 03:56 PM

i love the first response (i made bold the epitome of her rant):

Kathleen McKinley Harris says:
August 24, 2011 at 8:57 am

I sent a letter to the Free Press editor some time ago that was not published or acknowledged with my negative opinion about the ill-advised wind project in Lowell of Green Mt. Power. Wind power is not advanced enough in its technology to justify destroying a pristine mountain ridge. If wind projects are constructed, they should be erected on already degraded mountains such as ski mountains. It is obvious that Green Mountain Power is so eager to push ahead with this project because funding for it is about to end. It is equally apparent that the company has very carefully chosen to site the towers in a little populated, relatively poor town which has lost its major industry, the asbestos mine. It has been pointed out that Lowell will not have the view of the proposed towers that the towns of Albany and Craftsbury will have. Why weren’t Albany and Craftsbury voting on an issue which affects them? What will this do to Craftsbury’s magnificent view? Why hasn’t tourism been a part of the thinking when making a decision to forever degrade Vermont’s scenery and which threatens wildlife and water? I see this project as just the foot in the door to open other mountain ridges to development. Present day Vermonters should remember the proposed Blue Ridge style parkway that an earlier generation soundly turned down and imagine what our Green Mountains would be like had it been built. Then, imagine our mountains with wind towers and super highways to service them—and remember, the building of towers won’t just be in Lowell.

:lol:

#9 MeOmYo

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 03:59 PM

Big issue out here too. The practical part of it (because you know how worked up I get about having outrage for everything) is difficulty of transmitting the power once generated. The fact of it being such an eyesore is also a big deal here, I'd imagine even more so in VT.

I'm a big fan of focusing green efforts where they have the most impact: more solar stations in AZ, NV, CA, more wind farms on the high-wind plains.


how is trasmitting power from a windmill any different than transmitting from a power plant? I suppose if there are no "main" lines nearby, the project scope as a whole would include much more than just the windmill site.

#10 TEO

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 04:02 PM

There are several of these wind "mills" on top of Searsburg, Mtn. Certainly enough to extrapolate what it would take to create and maintain a full blown wind farm.

#11 scarfire

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 04:04 PM

the berkshire wind project put 10 turbines up on brody mountain. you can see them as you drive south on rt43. they look fine and will generate power for 6000 homes.

#12 SunshineDrummer

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 04:05 PM

I don't understand the "eyesore" concern but I guess that depends on where it is. Yeah, its another structure you have to look at, but I'd much rather see a windfarm than a refinery.

Truth be told, I find watching a windfarm kind of soothing.

#13 TEO

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 04:06 PM

I don't understand the "eyesore" concern but I guess that depends on where it is. Yeah, its another structure you have to look at, but I'd much rather see a windfarm than a refinery.

Truth be told, I find watching a windfarm kind of soothing.


I rather see the windfarm than Vernon's energy plant.

#14 Julius

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 04:09 PM

I don't understand the "eyesore" concern but I guess that depends on where it is. Yeah, its another structure you have to look at, but I'd much rather see a windfarm than a refinery.

Truth be told, I find watching a windfarm kind of soothing.


VT is really big on aesthetics, to the point of having road signs written in such tiny print you can barely see them.

#15 TEO

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 04:12 PM

We have also had Act 250 in effect to preserve aesthetics.

#16 Shake Yer Bones

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 04:32 PM

I don't understand the "eyesore" concern but I guess that depends on where it is. Yeah, its another structure you have to look at, but I'd much rather see a windfarm than a refinery.

Truth be told, I find watching a windfarm kind of soothing.


It's a big issue if you live in areas that could be affected by windfarms. Personally, I'm rural because I want to be and the last thing I want to see out of my window is a big wind turbine. I'd fight tooth and nail to keep those things away from me.

#17 SunshineDrummer

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 04:40 PM

It's a big issue if you live in areas that could be affected by windfarms. Personally, I'm rural because I want to be and the last thing I want to see out of my window is a big wind turbine. I'd fight tooth and nail to keep those things away from me.


What about solar panels? Are they considered an eyesore as well?

#18 TEO

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 04:43 PM

What about solar panels? Are they considered an eyesore as well?


On houses or a farm of them on a mountain top?

#19 SunshineDrummer

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 04:45 PM

On houses or a farm of them on a mountain top?


No, not housetop units since they're fairly small. I'm talking about the larger arrays, like this:

Posted Image

#20 TEO

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 04:46 PM

That would most likely fubar our main industry of tourism.

#21 JBetty

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 04:50 PM

I rather see the windfarm than Vernon's energy plant.



Aren't they taking VT Yankee off line soon?

#22 TEO

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 04:51 PM

Somewhere between this coming March and 20 years.

#23 JBetty

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 04:52 PM

20 years when it's been failing for how long? :shocked:

#24 TEO

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 04:53 PM

http://www.businessw...s/D9Q145MG1.htm

#25 TEO

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 04:53 PM

20 years when it's been failing for how long? :shocked:


Failing, which stories are you listening to? :wink:

#26 SunshineDrummer

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 04:53 PM

That would most likely fubar our main industry of tourism.


Just curious. I know VT depends a lot on tourism.

But isn't this yet another case of wanting something (in this case, more environmentally friendly, non-fossil fuel sources of power), but not if its going to be in your backyard? This isn't necessarily aimed at VT only... I've heard this line of thought elsewhere when windfarms/solar arrays are considered.

#27 Julius

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 04:54 PM

No, not housetop units since they're fairly small. I'm talking about the larger arrays, like this:

Posted Image


That reminds me of a tombstone-like layout at a cemetery. I wonder if they could be installed on top of stones. Hmmmm, maybe we're on to something.

#28 GoPlastic

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 04:55 PM

power is ugly, for the most part. and it's got to be somebody's ugly...of course, if everyone (with wind and/or sun) had a small wind turbine and/or solar panels on their property, we could eliminate a good deal of the worry about ruining landscapes, because we wouldn't need so many big boys out there...

#29 Shake Yer Bones

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 04:57 PM

I'd definitely consider solar panels like that an eyesore but I don't think there'll be anything like that in my neck of the woods anytime soon. That's the kind of stuff for deserts. There are plenty of individual houses in my area with solar panels and even wind turbines. I'm hoping to go solar at some point down the line here at home. I just don't want those massive wind towers. There's a bunch of them about 20 miles south of me and they look horrible.

#30 JBetty

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 04:57 PM

http://www.businessweek.com/ap/financialnews/D9Q145MG1.htm



Let's hope the good judge is a judge of good judgement.
But the end of the article does not bode well.

"The reality is that the meaning of (the laws) is a question of law, not fact. So, testimony about factual matters is wholly beside the point." :huh:

#31 GoPlastic

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 05:02 PM

I'd definitely consider solar panels like that an eyesore but I don't think there'll be anything like that in my neck of the woods anytime soon. That's the kind of stuff for deserts. There are plenty of individual houses in my area with solar panels and even wind turbines. I'm hoping to go solar at some point down the line here at home. I just don't want those massive wind towers. There's a bunch of them about 20 miles south of me and they look horrible.


there's no way...just no way...that they look worse than this:

Posted Image

Port Jefferson Harbor...one of the most perfect natural harbors on Long Island...aesthetically ruined by an oil-burning electric plant. they smell real nice on the occasional downwind days, too. :rolleyes:

i'd love to see those stacks imploded and a series of wind turbines put up. hopefully, before i die, i see that.

#32 Lazy Lightning

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 05:04 PM

Posted Image

#33 GoPlastic

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 05:05 PM

Posted Image


:rotf:

:Phishfolk::Phishfolk::Phishfolk::Phishfolk:

#34 Lazy Lightning

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 05:06 PM

I just don't want those massive wind towers. There's a bunch of them about 20 miles south of me and they look horrible.


I always thought that they look beautiful. Not just what they represent, but their design aesthetic as well. They kinda remind me of giant alien flowers. All eyes see differently, tho.

#35 TEO

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 05:08 PM

Just curious. I know VT depends a lot on tourism.

But isn't this yet another case of wanting something (in this case, more environmentally friendly, non-fossil fuel sources of power), but not if its going to be in your backyard? This isn't necessarily aimed at VT only... I've heard this line of thought elsewhere when windfarms/solar arrays are considered.


No doubt, the issue should be around finding the right balance.

#36 TEO

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 05:09 PM

I always thought that they look beautiful. Not just what they represent, but their design aesthetic as well. They kinda remind me of giant alien flowers. All eyes see differently, tho.


Would that view remain if they were to populate every mountaintop so there were no more unspoiled mountains to be viewed?

#37 Lazy Lightning

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 05:11 PM

I highly doubt they are going to populate *every* moutaintop. They don't populate *every* valley in CA, either.

#38 TEO

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 05:12 PM

I highly doubt they are going to populate *every* moutaintop. They don't populate *every* valley in CA, either.


Nice evasion

#39 Lazy Lightning

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 05:13 PM

So you actually believe they are going to be on every mountaintop in VT?

#40 Lazy Lightning

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 05:14 PM

That'd play hell with the skiing economy wouldn't it? :lol:

#41 Lazy Lightning

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 05:22 PM

From my travels across the NE I have come upon fields with wind turbines and passed hilltops or mountains with 'em too. I didn't think they marred the landscape. They were in one specific area, not spread out over hours of our drive. I have also passed great fields of them in California. I want to get out and wander amongst them, but I haven't done that yet - maybe the next time I visit friends in 29 Palms we can make that happen.

So no, I don't think it mars the landscape. It's not like they are going to be EVERYWHERE, they usually concentrate them in one area. And I'm pretty sure VT has enough awareness and interest in keeping those tourist dollars coming in that they would avoid putting up a wind farm in the areas that tourists travel to specifically for the scenery.

#42 Shake Yer Bones

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 05:22 PM

there's no way...just no way...that they look worse than this:

Posted Image

Port Jefferson Harbor...one of the most perfect natural harbors on Long Island...aesthetically ruined by an oil-burning electric plant. they smell real nice on the occasional downwind days, too. :rolleyes:

i'd love to see those stacks imploded and a series of wind turbines put up. hopefully, before i die, i see that.


I don't disagree. Those things look horrible too. So if you want to tear those down and install wind turbines, go right ahead. My point is that I'm in an area that has nothing. And that's the way I want it to stay.

#43 hoagie

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 05:23 PM

Originally Posted by SunshineDrummer
Just curious. I know VT depends a lot on tourism.

But isn't this yet another case of wanting something (in this case, more environmentally friendly, non-fossil fuel sources of power), but not if its going to be in your backyard? This isn't necessarily aimed at VT only... I've heard this line of thought elsewhere when windfarms/solar arrays are considered.


/thread.

#44 hoagie

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 05:24 PM

My point is that I'm in an area that has nothing. And that's the way I want it to stay.



not in my backyard :ravn:

#45 CTMuleman

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 05:25 PM

Why not build more miniature golf courses? :dunno:

Wind mills and tourist activity all in one! WIN!

#46 Shake Yer Bones

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 05:25 PM

From my travels across the NE I have come upon fields with wind turbines and passed hilltops or mountains with 'em too. I didn't think they marred the landscape. They were in one specific area, not spread out over hours of our drive. I have also passed great fields of them in California. I want to get out and wander amongst them, but I haven't done that yet - maybe the next time I visit friends in 29 Palms we can make that happen.

So no, I don't think it mars the landscape. It's not like they are going to be EVERYWHERE, they usually concentrate them in one area. And I'm pretty sure VT has enough awareness and interest in keeping those tourist dollars coming in that they would avoid putting up a wind farm in the areas that tourists travel to specifically for the scenery.


Like you said, not all eyes see the same but the one difference I would point out is that you have passed through these areas. You're not living there. You don't have to wake up to them and see them every day. The ones I mentioned that are south of me have been nothing but nightmares for residents and last I knew, there were lawsuits against the corporation that installed them.

#47 TEO

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 05:26 PM

So you actually believe they are going to be on every mountaintop in VT?


I would have never believed we would have the Vernon power plant, so my belief if this area probably isn't the best.

I think they would be great for places with ski areas as they already marr the mountains. Would this impact tourists skiing at VT mountains? I have no clue.

#48 Shake Yer Bones

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 05:26 PM

not in my backyard :ravn:


Absolutely! :grin:

#49 hoagie

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 05:26 PM

The ones I mentioned that are south of me have been nothing but nightmares for residents and last I knew, there were lawsuits against the corporation that installed them.



could you describe the nightmare?

#50 TEO

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 05:27 PM

So no, I don't think it mars the landscape. It's not like they are going to be EVERYWHERE, they usually concentrate them in one area. And I'm pretty sure VT has enough awareness and interest in keeping those tourist dollars coming in that they would avoid putting up a wind farm in the areas that tourists travel to specifically for the scenery.


Years back perhaps, however now that we have so many transplants I wouldn't be so certain.