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Occupy Wall St.


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#301 vic

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Posted 27 September 2011 - 06:40 PM

Bro, you need to stop preaching to the choir and be combatative to those who are on your side. The media wont even cover this in any real sense. Like I said, you're under the impression that keeping the peace is their goal. Their goal is in protecting their assets.


i'm not being combatative...i'm agreeing with you with a tint of sarcasm:dunno:

i'm not saying what their goal is, only what their job is

#302 Joker

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Posted 27 September 2011 - 06:44 PM

I'd say that the goal of 95% of those cops is protecting their asses and getting home safe to their families rather than beating up protesters.

And FTR non-violent protesters don't instigate confrontations with the police

#303 ladygingechilla

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Posted 27 September 2011 - 06:45 PM

:bang:

#304 vic

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Posted 27 September 2011 - 06:50 PM

What does "social media fueled protest" mean, a bunch got together based on social media postings rather than a well thought out and organized protest?

Seriously wondering as TASB's assessment did not make the onsite seem well organized with recognized good leadership.


the goal seems pretty obvious to me...end the rich's influence in washington and taking it to the heart of where these billionaire crooks are

and they also seem to be way more organized (they could do better than they are, but...) than they're being given credit. they are organized enough to not be violent, and they vote as a group on what actions to take and they are helping to feed each other and even doing a live feed of the entire protest...seems like some pretty good steps toward being organized to me...the difference is that this is not a one day demonstration, so it looks a little different and mayhaps somewhat stretched thin at times, but unlike a one day go, not everyone is going to stand in formation somewhere

what they could use is a stage for speakers to speak, but i doubt they'd be granted that at this time...the "leaders" are starting to pop up...chomsky stands in solidarity with them, michael moore has shown up, immortal technique has shown up, chris engles has shown up, keith olberman is hosting some of the protesters on his show

some of what you read from people you would think they can't find their own 2 feet in front of them

it's gonna be slow on weekdays...be patient and give em a chance here...nobody expected it to last this long but here we are...

#305 TEO

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Posted 27 September 2011 - 06:52 PM

Thank you vic.

#306 Slave Self Promoted

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Posted 27 September 2011 - 06:52 PM

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/h0ODl2xYXEw" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

#307 Joker

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Posted 27 September 2011 - 06:53 PM

the pepper spray incident is clearly unprovoked and you are putting your own spin on it at this point...this was not a cop that was standing there and felt that it wa neccessary to subdue someone...he CLEARLY is standing a good 20 feet away and then CLEARLY runs over and sprays it indiscriminately into the crowd and CLEARLY sneaks away immediately...you're making quite the stretch for this guy and i don't understand why

i will agree that it isn't as clear cut with the woman that was dragged, although the force they used is quite excessve obviously...it's very unclear whether or not she provoked it any other way than verbally, which would be not at all...you are allowed to yell at officers unless that's one of those complex nyc laws i don't know about

The guy that sprayed them appears to be in the wrong. Again we don't know what happened before the video (Did she throw something at the cops? Did she threaten anyone?) so it is at least possible there's a reason for what he did.

Why was the force excessive? They had to drag her away from the mob who were grabbing at them for their own protection. She's grabbing and pulling on the barricade (you can see her in Jwheels video) that alone constitutes interfering with the police who are trying to perform their job.

#308 TakeAStepBack

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Posted 27 September 2011 - 06:53 PM

What does "social media fueled protest" mean, a bunch got together based on social media postings rather than a well thought out and organized protest?

Seriously wondering as TASB's assessment did not make the onsite seem well organized with recognized good leadership.


Like with the "Arab spring", which was suposedly largely fueled by social media in getting out the message to attend, they are claiming the same here. They have demands, but the demands are largely nullified by the fact they are asking the parties working off existing legislation to change their affairs. While I agree with that sentiment, it is a bit misplaced, IMHO.

From what I gathered, it seems pretty unorganized. Of course, when it comes to civil disobediance, I generally look to the movements of the 60s. Those were well organized, very serious affairs. They knew their boundaries and where it was necessary to cross the line for their cause. It did not largely involve poking smot in a park outside stock exchange and a mesh of groups and folks who aren't even fully aware of what they are protesting.

Oct. 6th in Washington, folks.

#309 Sunshower

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Posted 27 September 2011 - 06:57 PM

if there were instances of violence from the protesters, you can bet your ass the media would be all over it...show me something...until then, i'll have to go with yes they are


They can't show you this cause it does NOT exist!

#310 vic

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Posted 27 September 2011 - 06:57 PM

I'd say that the goal of 95% of those cops is protecting their asses and getting home safe to their families rather than beating up protesters.

And FTR non-violent protesters don't instigate confrontations with the police


:bang:

keepers of the peace don't instigate confrontations with non-violent protesters

show me one video of a protester assaulting an officer

#311 TEO

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Posted 27 September 2011 - 06:57 PM

Like with the "Arab spring", which was suposedly largely fueled by social media in getting out the message to attend, they are claiming the same here. They have demands, but the demands are largely nullified by the fact they are asking the parties working off existing legislation to change their affairs. While I agree with that sentiment, it is a bit misplaced, IMHO.

From what I gathered, it seems pretty unorganized. Of course, when it comes to civil disobediance, I generally look to the movements of the 60s. Those were well organized, very serious affairs. They knew their boundaries and where it was necessary to cross the line for their cause. It did not largely involve poking smot in a park outside stock exchange and a mesh of groups and folks who aren't even fully aware of what they are protesting.

Oct. 6th in Washington, folks.


That is what I was wondering. Seems much research and organization is necessary for a productive protest.

#312 vic

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Posted 27 September 2011 - 07:00 PM

Why was the force excessive? They had to drag her away from the mob who were grabbing at them for their own protection. She's grabbing and pulling on the barricade (you can see her in Jwheels video) that alone constitutes interfering with the police who are trying to perform their job.


not saying you're wrong but i don't see anyone grab a cop...i will watch it again

#313 Jwheelz

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Posted 27 September 2011 - 07:01 PM

(you can see her in Jwheels video)


vic actually posted it, I was just commenting

#314 drvic

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Posted 27 September 2011 - 07:02 PM

People in NYC are in hysterics and are concerned with the whereabouts and well being of their favorite barristas.

#315 TakeAStepBack

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Posted 27 September 2011 - 07:03 PM

Most people are largely unaware that this is even happening. Most of my co-workers are clueless.

Then again, that goes WAY beyond this particular event. :funny1:

#316 vic

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Posted 27 September 2011 - 07:04 PM

Like with the "Arab spring", which was suposedly largely fueled by social media in getting out the message to attend, they are claiming the same here. They have demands, but the demands are largely nullified by the fact they are asking the parties working off existing legislation to change their affairs. While I agree with that sentiment, it is a bit misplaced, IMHO.

From what I gathered, it seems pretty unorganized. Of course, when it comes to civil disobediance, I generally look to the movements of the 60s. Those were well organized, very serious affairs. They knew their boundaries and where it was necessary to cross the line for their cause. It did not largely involve poking smot in a park outside stock exchange and a mesh of groups and folks who aren't even fully aware of what they are protesting.

Oct. 6th in Washington, folks.



i'm sure there were plenty of people who didn't know what the hell they were doing in the 60s too...toking at this thing, i will agree, is very very idiotic...but how many people were actually doing that?

#317 Sunshower

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Posted 27 September 2011 - 07:04 PM

Most people are largely unaware that this is even happening. Most of my co-workers are clueless.

Then again, that goes WAY beyond this particular event. :funny1:


Ditto that!:funny1:

#318 drvic

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Posted 27 September 2011 - 07:05 PM

I did have a nice lulzy moment last night when my roommate (ultra conservotard) was bitching about the protests then he adds "They dont even have a permit!" I pointed out to him that most meaningful protests and acts of defiance throughout history also, did not have permits.

He mad.

#319 vic

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Posted 27 September 2011 - 07:06 PM

Most people are largely unaware that this is even happening. Most of my co-workers are clueless.

Then again, that goes WAY beyond this particular event. :funny1:



heh i don't even try with some people anymore:funny1:

#320 TakeAStepBack

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Posted 27 September 2011 - 07:06 PM

i'm sure there were plenty of people who didn't know what the hell they were doing in the 60s too...toking at this thing, i will agree, is very very idiotic...but how many people were actually doing that?


I didn't count, but the fragerance was in the air pretty good right by the park and police were largely ignoring it, if that's any consolation prize.

#321 vic

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Posted 27 September 2011 - 07:09 PM

i think the 60s get a lil too much credit, esp. since the hindsight of it is mostly corporatized in advertising nowadays

let's not forget that a lot of these folks that fought the man back then are part of the 1% today

#322 Danimal

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Posted 27 September 2011 - 07:11 PM

Are they getting any help or guidance from people who know the law? I wonder if the people getting arrested are even read their rights? I've only seen a few arrest videos and it seems they just cuff and stuff a lot of these poor people.

#323 TakeAStepBack

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Posted 27 September 2011 - 07:14 PM

i think the 60s get a lil too much credit, esp. since the hindsight of it is mostly corporatized in advertising nowadays

let's not forget that a lot of these folks that fought the man back then are part of the 1% today


That does not make the effort any less real on their part. Everything has a price tag in marketing. Nothing is sacred. And there will always be those who will sell their fundemental principles to the highest bidder.

#324 Jwheelz

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Posted 27 September 2011 - 07:15 PM

Are they getting any help or guidance from people who know the law? I wonder if the people getting arrested are even read their rights? I've only seen a few arrest videos and it seems they just cuff and stuff a lot of these poor people.


The 'Miranda' warning technically only has to be read prior to an interrogation, and more recent Supreme Court cases have even challenged the notion that it has to be read at all.

#325 vic

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Posted 27 September 2011 - 07:16 PM

Are they getting any help or guidance from people who know the law? I wonder if the people getting arrested are even read their rights? I've only seen a few arrest videos and it seems they just cuff and stuff a lot of these poor people.


i'd have to look it up again, but i know they do have a lawfirm representing them and are told to write phone numbers on their arms in case they are arrested, since the police will likely confiscate their cell phones upon arrest

i would at least think they're rights are read to them at the station :dunno:

#326 Sunshower

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Posted 27 September 2011 - 07:18 PM

One would hope their rights are being read to them indeed.

#327 vic

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Posted 27 September 2011 - 07:18 PM

That does not make the effort any less real on their part.


nor does it in this instance...every city in the country is latching onto this

you best believe this thing is real

#328 TakeAStepBack

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Posted 27 September 2011 - 07:29 PM

Their effort is real, no doubt. it is simply my opinion it is a bit misplaced. If they can keep this moving and roll it right into the Oct 6th event, even better.

#329 GoPlastic

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Posted 27 September 2011 - 07:42 PM

I admire their effort. But, I think they should have gone into it with more organization, clearer goals, etc. I was watching earlier today when Susan Sarandon was there and she brought up a lot of valid points.

As the Wall Street occupation drags on, it's starting to attract more celebrities. Last night filmmaker Michael Moore spoke at Zuccotti Park, and today Susan Sarandon (who recently gave us an interview) dropped by the protest HQ to dispense words of advice.

Sarandon reportedly told the protesters that "Your weakness is that there are so many issues. You're gonna be easy to be dismissed if you don't concentrate on a single cause," an issue with the protest that's been echoed elsewhere. Occupy Wall Street's organizers seek to keep the process entirely democratic, as we've observed at their General Assemblies, and that hasn't helped the protesters define a clear goal.

Sarandon also told the protesters that "You don't want the face of your movement to look like discontented people that don't know what they're talking about."

Occupy Wall Street's rep told us that Sarandon didn't stick around for long, but now they've got City Councilman Charles Barron of East New York visiting today's General Assembly.


cool story! source?

#330 FYC (Find Your Cloud)

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Posted 27 September 2011 - 07:44 PM

Their effort is real, no doubt. it is simply my opinion it is a bit misplaced. If they can keep this moving and roll it right into the Oct 6th event, even better.

That's what i'm secretly hoping is that these guys can keep this momentum up until the 6th and then we will, after all is said and done, be seeing this in sort of a macroscopic view as the powder keg that set off a larger "explosion" of sorts down in DC and then more movements after that if necessary.

#331 GoPlastic

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Posted 27 September 2011 - 07:45 PM

y'know what...never mind...i found an article, too:

http://www.bloomberg...n-sarandon.html

Wall Street Protesters Joined by Susan Sarandon

By Charles Mead - Sep 27, 2011 2:27 PM ET

Wall Street protesters, joined today by Oscar-winning actress Susan Sarandon, vowed to continue weeks of demonstrations after police squirted pepper spray at some participants and arrests mounted.

About 100 people camped out with mattresses and sleeping bags in Zuccotti Park as demonstrations against financial firms continued for an 11th day. Sarandon, 64, who appeared last year in Oliver Stone’s “Wall Street: Money Never Sleeps,” toured an area that includes a makeshift kitchen and library with titles such as “The Wage Slave’s Glossary” and “Nickel and Dimed: On (Not) Getting By in America.”

“I’m here to understand what’s going on and to lend my support,” Sarandon, who won an Academy Award for best actress for her role in the 1995 film “Dead Man Walking,” said in an interview. “There’s a lot of different kinds of people here who want to shift the paradigm to something that’s addressing the huge gap between the rich and the poor.”

The group plans to march through the financial district each business day to mark the New York Stock Exchange’s opening and closing bells. The protest, dubbed “#OccupyWallStreet,” aims to get President Barack Obama to establish a commission to end “the influence money has over our representatives in Washington,” according to the website of Adbusters, a group promoting the demonstration.

“We’re raising awareness of the fact that the current economic system is changeable,” said Dylan O’Keefe, 19, of Northampton, Massachusetts, who said he attended about five days of protests. “I really don’t have faith in the political process anymore, mostly because of corporate interests. I don’t even plan on voting.”

‘Continuum of Force’

About 80 of the 100 people arrested since the demonstrations began were taken into custody on Sept. 24, when a police officer used pepper spray “in a continuum of force that obviated the use of batons,” Paul Browne, a spokesman for the New York City Police Department, said in an e-mail.

“Protesters who engage in civil disobedience can expect to be arrested,” Browne said. “Those who resist arrest can expect some measure of force will be used in making them.”

The Sept. 24 march and the use of pepper spray “really inspired me to come here,” said Esther Martin, 24, of New Orleans, who said she had a temporary job selling Bob Marley and Marilyn Monroe posters before joining the protest. “It’s giving a body to the discontent people feel from not having jobs or money, and the disappointment about bailouts for Wall Street.”

Zhi Wang, a smoothie vendor with a food cart on the park’s south sidewalk, said he’s likely lost “a couple hundred” dollars from protesters occupying the area.

“Right now it’s slow,” said Wang, 22. “There used to be lunch people sitting here. Now I don’t see any.”


To contact the reporter on this story: Charles Mead in New York at cmead11@bloomberg.net

To contact the editor responsible for this story: David Scheer at dscheer@bloomberg.net

#332 capt_morgan

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Posted 27 September 2011 - 07:45 PM

http://blogs.village..._sarandon_2.php

#333 GoPlastic

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Posted 27 September 2011 - 07:49 PM

http://blogs.village..._sarandon_2.php


thanks, but Spec K. should've provided it earlier.

interesting how the Village Voice depicts her as being critical without praising the protesters, and Bloomberg Media depicts her as being supportive without being critical of the protesters.

:lol:

#334 SunshineDrummer

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Posted 27 September 2011 - 07:51 PM

Zhi Wang, a smoothie vendor with a food cart on the park’s south sidewalk, said he’s likely lost “a couple hundred” dollars from protesters occupying the area.

“Right now it’s slow,” said Wang, 22. “There used to be lunch people sitting here. Now I don’t see any.”


Maybe Susan Sarandon or a group of these protestors should help this guy recoup what they've cause him to lose in business due to their "occupation." Maybe buy some smoothies instead of waiting for more donated pizzas.

Doubt that'll happen though. :rolleyes:

#335 GoPlastic

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Posted 27 September 2011 - 07:55 PM

Maybe Susan Sarandon or a group of these protestors should help this guy recoup what they've cause him to lose in business due to their "occupation." Maybe buy some smoothies instead of waiting for more donated pizzas.

Doubt that'll happen though. :rolleyes:


maybe smoothie guy should stop worrying about his 401K and donate some smoothies to the protesters.

doubt that'll happen though. :rolling:

#336 vic

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Posted 27 September 2011 - 07:55 PM

Maybe Susan Sarandon or a group of these protestors should help this guy recoup what they've cause him to lose in business due to their "occupation." Maybe buy some smoothies instead of waiting for more donated pizzas.

Doubt that'll happen though. :rolleyes:


are you really gonna nitpick at that?:rolleyes:

just for you, i'll buy a smoothie saturday:funny1:

#337 capt_morgan

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Posted 27 September 2011 - 07:58 PM

Maybe Susan Sarandon or a group of these protestors should help this guy recoup what they've cause him to lose in business due to their "occupation." Maybe buy some smoothies instead of waiting for more donated pizzas.

Doubt that'll happen though. :rolleyes:


that would require them to pay for something themselves...the smoothie guy is their capitalist enemy. he represents everything that is wrong with the country
and they need all their money for *** and bail :lol:

#338 TakeAStepBack

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Posted 27 September 2011 - 07:58 PM

Since they're running a "democratic assembly", perhaps the vendor can file a greivance and recover his loss.

#339 Joker

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Posted 27 September 2011 - 07:59 PM

not saying you're wrong but i don't see anyone grab a cop...i will watch it again

Right around the minute mark in the video on the left as he's reaching in to grab the girl in black.

#340 SunshineDrummer

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Posted 27 September 2011 - 08:01 PM

are you really gonna nitpick at that?:rolleyes:

just for you, i'll buy a smoothie saturday:funny1:


I don't think its nitpicking at all. Its proof that their actions are having an impact on someone's ability to conduct business, just not their intended Wall Street banker type target. They're probably not the least bit concerned that some dude who's just trying to earn a living is being denied that by their actions. Something tells me that wasn't their intention, but its happening all the same. I'd love to know if any of them give a shit because my guess is the smoothie guy isn't the only one affected.

And I like strawberry.

#341 FYC (Find Your Cloud)

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Posted 27 September 2011 - 08:06 PM

for every 100$ this vendor has lost the mom & pop pizza joint nearby that they're ordering from frequently has probably made $200.
Should they go to each business in the area and ask them to calculate what they have lost?
where does one draw the line or is this just actually nitpicking?
:huh:

#342 SunshineDrummer

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Posted 27 September 2011 - 08:13 PM

for every 100$ this vendor has lost the mom & pop pizza joint nearby that they're ordering from frequently has probably made $200.
Should they go to each business in the area and ask them to calculate what they have lost?
where does one draw the line or is this just actually nitpicking?
:huh:


Since part of what this group is protesting seems to be "Wall Street vs. Main Street" I think the impact their protest is having on small businesses in the area is completely valid and probably wasn't even considered in their decision to "occupy" this area.

It seems that the very people they're seemingly trying to stand up for are the ones probably getting hurt in the wallet, not the folks with the 7-figure salaries.

Just an observation.

#343 vic

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Posted 27 September 2011 - 08:17 PM

Right around the minute mark in the video on the left as he's reaching in to grab the girl in black.


don't see it...i see hime dragging the woman by her hair and i see the woman in the gray shirt holding her phone up with her right hand and her left hand is not visible...you can speculate it might be grabbing his arm but there is no clear view of the officer being grabbed...what IS clear is that he is using VERY excessive force, especially on a woman...real tough, guy:rolleyes:

#344 vic

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Posted 27 September 2011 - 08:18 PM

Since they're running a "democratic assembly", perhaps the vendor can file a greivance and recover his loss.


this.

and i'm almost positive they'll take it into consideration

#345 FYC (Find Your Cloud)

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Posted 27 September 2011 - 08:18 PM

You're missing my point. where does one draw the line? sure they found a vendor who has lost hundreds but there is a local mom & pop pizza joint nearby whose name is escaping me that has made hundreds. I don't think one can easily apply blanket statements about how their protest is hurting the local economy when that isn't necessarily the truth across all local businesses. y'know?

There are plenty of other more tangible issues with this movement then the impact it has on one smoothie vendor, imo. that's all I'm trying to convey. :)

#346 SunshineDrummer

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Posted 27 September 2011 - 08:20 PM

You're missing my point. where does one draw the line? sure they found a vendor who has lost hundreds but there is a local mom & pop pizza joint nearby whose name is escaping me that has made hundreds. I don't think one can easily apply blanket statements about how their protest is hurting the local economy when that isn't necessarily the truth across all local businesses. y'know?

There are plenty of other more tangible issues with this movement then the impact it has on one smoothie vendor, imo. that's all I'm trying to convey. :-)


I understand, but the impact its having on him shouldn't be ignored, either. He's an innocent who got caught in the middle of this mess. They're the ones that always lose.

#347 vic

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Posted 27 September 2011 - 08:23 PM



#348 Joker

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Posted 27 September 2011 - 08:28 PM

don't see it...i see hime dragging the woman by her hair and i see the woman in the gray shirt holding her phone up with her right hand and her left hand is not visible...you can speculate it might be grabbing his arm but there is no clear view of the officer being grabbed...what IS clear is that he is using VERY excessive force, especially on a woman...real tough, guy:rolleyes:

If they did not literally "grab" it they were definitely interfering with him as he was reaching for her.

And again, what was excessive about it? How much force should he have used? How would you have gotten her clear from that angry mob without putting yourself and others in danger while she was trying to get away from you?

#349 wonka

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Posted 27 September 2011 - 08:31 PM

I understand, but the impact its having on him shouldn't be ignored, either. He's an innocent who got caught in the middle of this mess. They're the ones that always lose.


Isn't the beauty of a food cart the fact that it has wheels and is mobile? Does he need to stay where he is, or could he roll a few blocks to another park/public sitting lunch area? (I am not sure of cart vendor laws in NYC, but know that one I frequent near the office has moved when some construction came to their normal spot).

Or, he could rename his business "Smoothie Greenburg" and custie the heck outta 1/2 the crowd :funny1: "I'll take one moo-moo and one mango song smoothie please"

#350 vic

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Posted 27 September 2011 - 08:36 PM

If they did not literally "grab" it they were definitely interfering with him as he was reaching for her.

And again, what was excessive about it? How much force should he have used? How would you have gotten her clear from that angry mob without putting yourself and others in danger while she was trying to get away from you?


the only one reaching here is you, breh

you ask how i would handle it...i ask why the hell it was so important to violently grab at someone who is behind your little bullshit barrier...the most she could have possibly done wrong was mouth off to him...could he not have been the better man and ignored her? did he really have to drag her out by her hair? let's not look past the fact that ALL 4 accounts of clearly excessive force were done by white shirts...there is a pattern here that can't be ignored