2438 replies to this topic

[Rionach aka Spec K]

yes you do...in the 2 worst videos there is a good 15 seconds of pre-attack footage

show me

[GoPlastic]

show me

show me! show you!

[Rionach aka Spec K]

this is real easy...if there was ANY footage...and i mean ANY footage of the protesters breaking laws, antagonizing law enforcement, etc., it'd be plastered EVERYWHERE as justification for the police to shut it down. period.

the surprising dearth of such footage tells me it doesn't exist yet.

who would be posting it?

[wonka]

who would be posting it?

probably the cops with cameras of their own that can be seen in many of the videos

[Joker]

well i've been watching everything...all of it...noone tried to grab any cops...their attacks are clearly unprovoked and in most cases the videos show quite a few seconds before the police attacks

Maybe you're only seeing what you want to see. There's more than a few grabbing at them when they pull the girl dressed in black wearing the backpack through the barricade, and it certainly seems like some of the protesters are trying to breach that barricade. Do I hear screams of tear it down?

I can't tell for sure, but it looks like the girl in the gray tank top (holding what looks like a cover to a pan?) that's in the middle of that scene grabbing the arm of the cop in white, is the same one that's screaming after getting sprayed.

[Rionach aka Spec K]

probably the cops with cameras of their own that can be seen in many of the videos

yeah, I know there are cops with cameras
who is to say when they'll release their footage, if ever

[GoPlastic]

who would be posting it?

probably the cops with cameras of their own that can be seen in many of the videos

[GoPlastic]

yeah, I know there are cops with cameras
who is to say when they'll release their footage, if ever

i'd imagine the second people started yelling "police brutality!" would've been the right time for them to say "no, actually, here's what you didn't see" and present that to the casual observer so's we can makes our own judgements.

sure looks like a lack of quality material, if you ask me...

[Rionach aka Spec K]

i'd imagine the second people started yelling "police brutality!" would've been the right time for them to say "no, actually, here's what you didn't see" and present that to the casual observer so's we can makes our own judgements.

well, that's just it...we can all imagine and speculate a lot of things about what is going on

just because we haven't seen any other video footage yet, doesn't mean it doesn't exist:wink:

sure looks like a lack of quality material, if you ask me...

I agree

[FYC (Find Your Cloud)]

The very statement:

just because we haven't seen any other footage yet, doesn't mean it doesn't exist

is, in fact, also speculation.

This is a message board. where people share their opinions on subjects.
protip: opinion is a synonym of speculation...
http://thesaurus.com/browse/opinion

oh, right. i'm supposed to :wink::wink::wink:

[TakeAStepBack]

You should all be down on wall st. protesting with the group.

[Joker]

Perhaps the police are just gathering their footage and will make it public at a later time or they'll use it to refute any actual charges that are brought against them.

Not showing your cards until the hand is over isn't really a bad idea

[GoPlastic]

Perhaps the police are just gathering their footage and will make it public at a later time or they'll use it to refute any actual charges that are brought against them.

Not showing your cards until the hand is over isn't really a bad idea

perhaps.

of course, making it public immediately would reduce the probability of said charges ever being made in the first place, and perhaps help them show cause to legally disperse the protesters, if that's what they're looking to do. there's really no reason not to show it if you've got it right now, because the negative PR is something the NYPD really doesn't want or need.

[FYC (Find Your Cloud)]

You should all be down on wall st. protesting with the group.

I'm waiting for you to quit first.
I figure I'll need a guide who knows the area better than I.


srsly, finances.
hoping to head down monday - tuesday.

[vic]

yeah, I know there are cops with cameras
who is to say when they'll release their footage, if ever

are you being serious right now?

[vic]

show me

you can look through this very thread

but here's one that wasn't posted...white shirt...again

[TakeAStepBack]

I was down thar yesterdee. Prolly go back this weekend if they can bring in a rush. Right now, from what i saw there are just a lot of hippies who want more tunes, man.

I'll be putting together some cds full of documentaries and links to educational content to hand out.

Again, though. I feel this is the wrong place to work for a demand in change.

[Rionach aka Spec K]

The very statement:

is, in fact, also speculation.

This is a message board. where people share their opinions on subjects.
protip: opinion is a synonym of speculation...
http://thesaurus.com/browse/opinion

oh, right. i'm supposed to :wink::wink::wink:

yes, I understand that part of it:wink:

Originally Posted by vic
well i've been watching everything...all of it...noone tried to grab any cops...their attacks are clearly unprovoked and in most cases the videos show quite a few seconds before the police attacks

I don't believe for 1 minute that vic could have all the facts based on the video footage that we've seen so far

[vic]

Maybe you're only seeing what you want to see. There's more than a few grabbing at them when they pull the girl dressed in black wearing the backpack through the barricade, and it certainly seems like some of the protesters are trying to breach that barricade. Do I hear screams of tear it down?

I can't tell for sure, but it looks like the girl in the gray tank top (holding what looks like a cover to a pan?) that's in the middle of that scene grabbing the arm of the cop in white, is the same one that's screaming after getting sprayed.

you're seeing what you want to see...we agree on a ton of shit but it seems consistent that you go soft when it comes to cops

[FYC (Find Your Cloud)]

yes, I understand that part of it:wink:

Originally Posted by vic
well i've been watching everything...all of it...noone tried to grab any cops...their attacks are clearly unprovoked and in most cases the videos show quite a few seconds before the police attacks

I don't believe for 1 minute that vic could have all the facts based on the video footage that we've seen so far

My speculation is headier than your speculation or if you prefer, your favorite statement based on speculation sucks.
got it.

[vic]

perhaps.

of course, making it public immediately would reduce the probability of said charges ever being made in the first place, and perhaps help them show cause to legally disperse the protesters, if that's what they're looking to do. there's really no reason not to show it if you've got it right now, because the negative PR is something the NYPD really doesn't want or need.

beat me to it

seems pretty cut and dry...none of the videos presented delete what happened before the assaults by officers

[vic]

yes, I understand that part of it:wink:

Originally Posted by vic
well i've been watching everything...all of it...noone tried to grab any cops...their attacks are clearly unprovoked and in most cases the videos show quite a few seconds before the police attacks

I don't believe for 1 minute that vic could have all the facts based on the video footage that we've seen so far

i have more than you since you apparently haven't even looked since you're asking me to show you while all of the videos are in this very thread

[TakeAStepBack]

Quit bickering already. Neither of you are down there to get first hand account. I saw people clearly breaking the laws from my stroll through (not that it is hard to break laws in NYC).

Go down there and protest and then report back on observed and perhaps recorded brutality.

[Rionach aka Spec K]

you can look through this very thread

but here's one that wasn't posted...white shirt...again

that footage doesn't prove anything
you can clearly see some sort of altercation between the man that was arrested and white shirt in the first seconds of the clip
how can you know for sure the guy wasn't threatening or wasn't being aggressive towards the cop? You can't know for sure.
Ya, it looks like the cop was out of line and very well may have been
But, you can't know for sure based on this clip

[Rionach aka Spec K]

i have more than you since you apparently haven't even looked since you're asking me to show you while all of the videos are in this very thread

I've looked at them all and others:wink:

[FYC (Find Your Cloud)]

Quit bickering already. Neither of you are down there to get first hand account. I saw people clearly breaking the laws from my stroll through (not that it is hard to break laws in NYC).

Go down there and protest and then report back on observed and perhaps recorded brutality.

He's shuttin' it down folks.

[Joker]

you can look through this very thread

but here's one that wasn't posted...white shirt...again

Again we don't see what he did while the other protester was being arrested. He was told to get back (looks like one of his comrades even tried to get him to pull back) but he decided not to do so and instead got in the cops face. I'm pretty sure that's reason enough to arrest him.

[FYC (Find Your Cloud)]

You don't have to leave but you can't speculate here.

[vic]

Again we don't see what he did while the other protester was being arrested. He was told to get back (looks like one of his comrades even tried to get him to pull back) but he decided not to do so and instead got in the cops face. I'm pretty sure that's reason enough to arrest him.

so someone can get arrested for talking to an officer? suite. the cop pushes him. clearly. the guy never laid a hand not looked like he was going to lay a hand on the cop.

i'd love to stop bickering but i'm so goddamn sick of cop sympathizers that think they should be allowed to do whatever the hell they want.

[Joker]

you're seeing what you want to see...we agree on a ton of shit but it seems consistent that you go soft when it comes to cops

Any cop that is guilty of any wrongdoing should be held accountable.

Any protester that is guilty of any wrongdoing should be held accountable.

[TakeAStepBack]

You're not going to change people's minds this way, brehm.

[Joker]

so someone can get arrested for talking to an officer? suite. the cop pushes him. clearly. the guy never laid a hand not looked like he was going to lay a hand on the cop.

i'd love to stop bickering but i'm so goddamn sick of cop sympathizers that think they should be allowed to do whatever the hell they want.

I'm willing to bet he wasn't arrested for "talking to an officer"

He was told to back off from an arrest that was occurring and he refused to do so.

[Rionach aka Spec K]

so someone can get arrested for talking to an officer? suite. the cop pushes him. clearly. the guy never laid a hand not looked like he was going to lay a hand on the cop.

i'd love to stop bickering but i'm so goddamn sick of cop sympathizers that think they should be allowed to do whatever the hell they want.

I am in no way, shape or form a cop sympathizer.
Believe me.
I do not believe they should be allowed to do whatever the hell they want.

I'm simply saying you can't know all the facts based on the video footage we've seen so far.
As I said earlier, I'm sure both cops and protesters alike crossed the line. Doesn't mean every copy did, nor does it mean very protester did.

[jg]

probably the cops with cameras of their own that can be seen in many of the videos

Go to the 14 minute mark of this 60 Minutes video. They claim to have over 2,000 cameras installed in NYC and expect that number to increase to 3,000.

http://www.cbsnews.c...ch/?id=7382308n

[vic]

I'm willing to bet he wasn't arrested for "talking to an officer"

He was told to back off from an arrest that was occurring and he refused to do so.

its not illegal to stand

[Joker]

That's another thing, the cops could be acting on info they've received from other cameras and/or officers so what looks like cops going in and just randomly grabbing people could be them going in after someone that has already done something wrong and who may be trying to hide out in with the crowd.

Bottom line is we don't know all the facts and pointing fingers at either side right now based on what little we've seen is rather foolish.

[vic]

That's another thing, the cops could be acting on info they've received from other cameras and/or officers so what looks like cops going in and just randomly grabbing people could be them going in after someone that has already done something wrong and who may be trying to hide out in with the crowd.

[vic]

Are NYC Police Protesting Abuse of Occupy Wall Street?
By Kevin Zeese - Posted on 26 September 2011

The report below is important for many reasons, but I found this in particular to be of interest: "Today we received unconfirmed reports that over one hundred blue collar police refused to come into work in solidarity with our movement. These numbers will grow. We are the 99 percent. You will not silence us." This is what happens in non-violent actions, if protesters stay non-violent, some police refuse to participate in the violence against the protesters. It also shows the critical of importance of everyone attending being ready to film from their phone or other equipment. See The People Are the Media and our media page. We are all the media and that gives us power.



Officer Bologna
Posted 2011-09-26 07:53:19 UTC by OccupyWallSt

Late last night we found out which white collar officer had maced our innocent protesters. We did not release this information as we had not yet come to a consensus on how to approach the situation. Earlier today we discovered that this information had already been released.

Yesterday, an NYPD spokesperson implied that we had edited the video to remove incriminating actions on the part of our peaceful protesters. Here are a few different angles and cuts of the event that we had not previously released:

As you can tell, we did not need to edit the video to implicate this officer in a gross and unconscionable crime.

This is the man who maced these young women without provocation.

His name is Antony Bologna. We demand that he is charged for his crimes. We demand that he receives jail time.

We demand that Police Commissioner Raymond W. Kelly resigns. Not only can he not control his most senior officers, he is involved in actively sheltering them from receiving any punishment.

We demand that Mayor Michael Bloomberg address our General Assembly and apologize for the police brutality and the cover-up that followed.

This was an attempt to make us weak, this was an attempt to destroy or derail our message, our conversation. It has not succeeded. We have grown, we will grow. Today we received unconfirmed reports that over one hundred blue collar police refused to come into work in solidarity with our movement. These numbers will grow. We are the 99 percent. You will not silence us.

Please call:
Mayor Bloomberg: +1 (212) 639-9675 or +1 (212) 788-2958 Deputy Commissioner of Public Information: +1 (646) 610-6700
NYPD Switchboard: +1 (646) 610-5000
First precinct: +1 (212) 334-0611

Make our voice heard. Make sure that the world knows that everyone deserves equal protection, service, and punishment.

Remain true to our principles of non-violence.

http://october2011.o...upy-wall-street

[Joker]

Because it couldn't happen or because you don't want to believe it could happen?

[vic]

[vic]

Because it couldn't happen or because you don't want to believe it could happen?

bc it is absurd

[Joker]

its not illegal to stand

Nobody said it was illegal to stand and I'm pretty sure they didn't get arrested for "standing"

Why not just wait and find out what they actually did get charged with rather than make unsubstantiated claims?

[vic]

so the pepper spray was a cop who fond someone from earlier that he had to spray and run away from?

[capt_morgan]

these kids should just admit what there really protesting here is capitalism.

[Joker]

bc it is absurd

Because all those cameras couldn't possibly pick up anybody doing anything wrong? Because someone couldn't actually see somebody doing something wrong that wasn't caught on video? Because those there to start trouble hoping for conflict couldn't possibly be hiding out amongst the crowd?

Why exactly is it absurd?

[TakeAStepBack]

these kids should just admit what there really protesting here is capitalism.

Capitalism should not be condemned, since we haven't had capitalism.
Ron Paul

[Joker]

so the pepper spray was a cop who fond someone from earlier that he had to spray and run away from?

Dude I didn't say that. And I didn't say the cops haven't done anything wrong. I'm saying we don't know everything.

If you just want to keep making unfounded statements then there's really no sense trying to discuss this with you.

[vic]

what would be wrong and where is the proof? not even a statement saying otherwise. just your assumption. lets at least hear it from them that this is what happened. theyve had 3 days to issue a statement.

[Sunshower]

They are not denying they did it. They can't. They will also get away with it and countless other acts of senseless attacks on these peaceful folks. This is pure bullshit. Hard to believe that some of you could think otherwise!

[ladygingechilla]

I hate feeling angry, useless and helpless all at once