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Occupy Wall St.


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#2051 TakeAStepBack

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Posted 28 March 2012 - 08:34 PM

I'm lost altogether on what's going on here, vic. Is this about economics?

#2052 MeOmYo

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Posted 28 March 2012 - 08:36 PM

it's about mortgages

#2053 Feck

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Posted 28 March 2012 - 08:41 PM

is your only way to argue through semantics?


who's arguing

you make things up

#2054 Joker

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Posted 28 March 2012 - 08:43 PM

That's his way of arguing ;)

#2055 Feck

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Posted 28 March 2012 - 08:53 PM

after more thought, i think i will just say

i see things differently than he does and I acknowledge that everyone has the right to see things in his or her own way.


open exchange of ideas, not going to happen here.

#2056 TakeAStepBack

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Posted 28 March 2012 - 10:13 PM

it's about mortgages


Ah. Yeah, I'm not spending 20 minutes on that. We've ran that gambit in too many ways for too many months. All our say is, who is the regulatory body that is suppose to be guarding their post and instead gave these lenders the triple A ratings when their books signaled insolvency? Who is giving the them those credit ratings to provide these types of bundles/securities?

Someone didn't do their job. That same someone that has failed epcot for it's entire lifespan.

#2057 vic

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Posted 30 March 2012 - 06:30 PM

http://www.reddit.co...y_this_week_or/

#2058 capt_morgan

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Posted 30 March 2012 - 07:00 PM

Posted Image

#2059 TakeAStepBack

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Posted 30 March 2012 - 07:49 PM

Ah. Yeah, I'm not spending 20 minutes on that. We've ran that gambit in too many ways for too many months. All our say is, who is the regulatory body that is suppose to be guarding their post and instead gave these lenders the triple A ratings when their books signaled insolvency? Who is giving the them those credit ratings to provide these types of bundles/securities?

Someone didn't do their job. That same someone that has failed epcot for it's entire lifespan.


I should also add, that a big part of the problem was in how institutions determine risk factors. Value at Risk, or VaR, is the risk method used by Wall St. to determine risk (in the decade leading up to the panic of 2008) and is still in wide use. It is a protion of the theory of efficient markets created by arcane academics (there is a whole story for debate).

VaR is a way to measure risk in an overall portfolio. Certain risky positions are offset against other positions to reduce risk, and VaR claims to measure that offset. For example, a long position in ten year treasury notes might be offset by a short position in five year Treasury notes so that the net risk, according to VaR, is much less either of the separate risks of notes. There is no limit to the number of complicated offsetting baskets that can be constructed. The mathematics quickly becomes daunting, because clear relationships such as longs and shorts in the same bond give way to the multiple realtionships of many items in the hedging basket.
Value at Risk is the mathematical culmination of fifty years of financial economics. Importanlty, it assumes that future relations between prices will resemble the past (which they do not, hardly ever). VaR assumes that price fluctuations are random and that risk is embedded in net positions - long minus short - instead of gross positions. VaR carries the intellectual baggage of efficient markets and normal distribution into the world of risk management.

The role of VaR in causing the 2008 collapse is immense but has never been thoroughly explored. The Financial Crisis Inquiry Commision barely considered trading risk models. The highly conflicted and fraudulent roles of mortgage brokers, investment bankers and ratings agencies has been extensively examined.

VaR was the invisble thread that ran through all the excesses that lead to the market collapse.

#2060 capt_morgan

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Posted 30 March 2012 - 08:14 PM

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#2061 TakeAStepBack

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Posted 30 March 2012 - 08:59 PM

I should also add, that a big part of the problem was in how institutions determine risk factors. Value at Risk, or VaR, is the risk method used by Wall St. to determine risk (in the decade leading up to the panic of 2008) and is still in wide use. It is a protion of the theory of efficient markets created by arcane academics (there is a whole story for debate).

VaR is a way to measure risk in an overall portfolio. Certain risky positions are offset against other positions to reduce risk, and VaR claims to measure that offset. For example, a long position in ten year treasury notes might be offset by a short position in five year Treasury notes so that the net risk, according to VaR, is much less either of the separate risks of notes. There is no limit to the number of complicated offsetting baskets that can be constructed. The mathematics quickly becomes daunting, because clear relationships such as longs and shorts in the same bond give way to the multiple realtionships of many items in the hedging basket.
Value at Risk is the mathematical culmination of fifty years of financial economics. Importanlty, it assumes that future relations between prices will resemble the past (which they do not, hardly ever). VaR assumes that price fluctuations are random and that risk is embedded in net positions - long minus short - instead of gross positions. VaR carries the intellectual baggage of efficient markets and normal distribution into the world of risk management.

The role of VaR in causing the 2008 collapse is immense but has never been thoroughly explored. The Financial Crisis Inquiry Commision barely considered trading risk models. The highly conflicted and fraudulent roles of mortgage brokers, investment bankers and ratings agencies has been extensively examined.

VaR was the invisble thread that ran through all the excesses that lead to the market collapse.


To put it in the form of an analogy. Doc Brown believed that the flux capacitor and scuzzy chain were lined up to produce 21.1 jiggawatts in the Delorian based on the metric model used, to travel back to 1955. It turned out, that metric model did not compensate or take into consideration any energy that might be produced leading up to 85 MPH. Once 85 MPH was reached, as opposed to the theatric motion picture, instead of traveling in time with the needed 21.1 jiggawatts, the Delorian's flux capacitor actually created 201.1 jiggawatts, and vaporized. Leaving a trail of vapor instead of a trail of fire. Time travel in the 2008 crisis was not achieved. What was achieved was instant death.

:rolling:

#2062 Joker

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Posted 30 March 2012 - 09:10 PM

That's what happens when the jiggawatts up :P

#2063 capt_morgan

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Posted 30 March 2012 - 09:12 PM

now the stupid Iranians want their stupid plutonium back :rolleyes:

#2064 TakeAStepBack

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Posted 31 March 2012 - 12:08 AM

Tell them to fly there and collect it. :rolleyes:

#2065 capt_morgan

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Posted 31 March 2012 - 01:06 AM

terrorist watch list'd....they'll never make it to a plane :lol:

#2066 Joker

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Posted 02 April 2012 - 01:37 PM

Occupy activists march across Brooklyn Bridge



NEW YORK — Occupy Wall Street protesters marched across the Brooklyn Bridge on Sunday to mark the six months that have passed since hundreds of them were arrested walking the same route. This time, their numbers were far less.


A couple of hundred activists marched from Manhattan's Zuccotti Park, where they first camped out last September to start a movement that has spread around the world. They were flanked by police officers on scooters and on foot.


The marchers used the pedestrian walkway to cross the bridge. The commemoration ended with a rally in Brooklyn's Cadman Plaza, which wrapped up just as rain started to fall.


There were no reports of arrests.


One of the marchers, wearing green hospital garb and wheeling an intravenous bag, unfurled a banner saying "Health Care for the 99 percent." Occupy activists dubbed themselves the "99 percent" opposing the economic inequality represented by the wealthy "1 percent."


The Brooklyn gathering included a "General Assembly" — as Occupy supporters called their daily meetings in Zuccotti Park, where they discussed various protest topics.


Bob Broadhurst, 54, of Hyde Park, Mass., a member of the International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers, glanced across the crowd of dwindling protesters, shook his head and said it was "very disappointing."


He was one of more than 700 people arrested on the bridge six months ago. He said he expects the charges to be dropped.


"It's complicated because nothing has changed since the fall in terms of the causes, but nobody wants to take a political position stance," said Thor Caristo, 37, of New York, when asked about the future of the movement.


"However, May 1 will change that," he said, referring to planned May Day marches and rallies backed by the nation's largest unions.

http://online.wsj.co...2efa2f8e25.html

#2067 Joker

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Posted 03 April 2012 - 01:47 PM

Occupy San Francisco protesters arrested after taking over building [Updated]

Dozens of Occupy San Francisco activists were arrested Monday afternoon after they took over a building owned by the Archdiocese of San Francisco and spent Sunday night there, contending it was vacant.


Organizers had announced plans a day earlier to “liberate” the Turk Street building and convert it “into a social center, shelter and food bank for the people.”


“This action on Sunday is not a temporary protest but a permanent occupation intended to establish a social center,” organizers wrote in a statement. “We will transform this vacant building into a productive and vibrant space, just as we did in the plaza occupation, and we wish others to take similar actions and more.”


At least 40 OccupySF demonstrators entered the building Sunday, but police moved in to roust them Monday, after archdiocese officials complained.


Archdiocese spokesman George Wesolek said the building and another one nearby had been used for music and art classes for the adjacent Sacred Heart Cathedral Preparatory High School as recently as 18 months ago and are going to be leased to raise money for scholarships for low-income students.


“The implication is that they’re abandoned, and in no way were they abandoned,” Wesolek said Monday evening. “They were in play and it was a question of school authorities as to how to use them best.”


Wesolek called the OccupySF target curious.


“Our mission is to work with the bottom quarter of the 99%. That’s what we do,” he said. “We run about a third of all the social services in the city, and our educational ministry is really important to us. It gives a lot of these kids a chance to get out of poverty situations and to go to college.”


Wesolek said high school officials notified the archdiocese Sunday evening that demonstrators had entered the building, and officials then signed a citizens arrest on charges of trespassing and graffiti.


San Francisco police could not immediately be reached for comment, but the San Francisco Chronicle reported that officers stormed the building about 1:45 p.m. Monday after tearing down a barricade that protesters had used to block the front door. The newspaper reported that more than two dozen arrests had been made by late afternoon.


[Updated, 7:05 p.m.: Authorities say 75 Occupy protesters were arrested. San Francisco Police Sgt. Michael Andraychak, a department spokesman, said officers worked their way through a barricade of dismembered metal cubicles to enter the building. They moved in after additional Occupiers began arriving with food and other provisions, he said.


“From everything we saw, we realized they intended to stay,” Andraychak said. “We’d seen stockpiles of bricks on the roof, buckets of paint and chairs and other items, and we were concerned they were going to be used to throw down on police officers.”


Andraychak said no one was injured during the arrests, adding that officers had to “break down doors and basically cause them to disintegrate” because they were screwed shut with metal brackets. The building was heavily graffitied and is now being boarded up by Archdiocese employees, who plan to bring in private security, he said.]






http://latimesblogs....wblog+(L.A.+Now)

#2068 vic

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Posted 04 April 2012 - 02:25 PM

http://www.eastbayex...ent?oid=3167707

#2069 Joker

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Posted 04 April 2012 - 03:27 PM

Excerpt from a longer article about the Occupy SF lawbreaking event. Their message to kill cops speaks volumes as to whether or not they're peaceful.

Police feared a fight that never came. Protesters defended the commune vigorously with barricades, but nothing was thrown at police before, during or after the raid of 888 Turk Street, but the SFPD forwarded photos of piles of bricks to the press following the raid. "There was concern that these items were going to be used as weapons against police officers," the SFPD said in a statement. The building was also marked by graffiti inside and out, ranging from hearts and messages of peace, including "Gun Free Zone" on the front facade, to "Kill Cops" and endless bacon jokes in upstairs corridors.

http://truth-out.org...cupy-sf-commune

#2070 TakeAStepBack

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Posted 04 April 2012 - 06:24 PM



LOL

#2071 vic

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Posted 04 April 2012 - 07:09 PM

wow...is that guy on crack?

#2072 vic

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Posted 04 April 2012 - 07:18 PM



#2073 Joker

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Posted 04 April 2012 - 07:32 PM

:rolling:

That's great, just a little over the top. Just went thru a few of his vids

#2074 TakeAStepBack

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Posted 04 April 2012 - 07:49 PM

The one called liberalism exposed is hilarious.

#2075 Joker

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Posted 05 April 2012 - 05:08 PM

The Occupy Protesters Have Launched A Website To Help You Dodge Taxes

Two former Wall Streeters with sympathies for the Occupy Movement have launched a website to help people dodge taxes. They describe their mission to "Occupy The IRS" in patriotic terms, using a picture of Thomas Jefferson as their Twitter avatar.

The site, called taxKilla, walks users through the simplest way to dodge taxes: filing Schedule C deductions for a business entity.
"Anybody can do it, that's the beauty of it," said Jen Powers, who graduated from Columbia University and began a career in social work after leaving Wall Street in the 80s. "We thought the 1 percent have so many different loopholes and opportunities to take advantage of when it comes to taxes, but the everyday person doesn't."

Is it legal?

Most of taxKilla's guidance isn't anything new–even tax accountants admit plenty of people use Schedule C forms to beef up tax refunds.

But the site also delivers insider tips on what might trigger an audit (typos, too many travel and entertainment deductions, etc.) and specific strategies to turn audits in your favor (schedule appointments on Fridays right before lunch breaks, "forget" certain paper work).

"We just condensed (this information) and put it together in a way that would be appealing to the Occupiers and basically people who would need help and obviously can't pay for it," Powers said.

Josh King, general counsel at legal advice site Avvo.com is skeptical: "(taxKilla) is effectively saying, 'You might as well be aggressive with this and basically enter fraudulent information on your tax return," he said. "What they leave out is that in order for this to actually work, you have to make money (at your business). You can't just say, 'I love to travel and my significant other loves to travel' and write that off when you make $15 in Google ad (revenue) every month."

The loophole

That's where Power disagrees. It's true that in order to qualify for deductions business entities have to turn a profit, but only in three out of the last five years.

That means if you're in your first year as a photographer and post a negative or $0 balance at tax time, you're still able to file deductions for things like home offices, camera equipment and your vehicle. Not to mention the fact that TaxKilla's target audience probably doesn't belong in the $1 million salary club, whose members are 11 times more likely to get audited.

How it works

Once you've signed up on taxkilla.com, you'll find a pretty rudimentary outline on what constitutes a business entity (Note: that doesn't mean it has to end in LLC or Corp. A blog, photography website and a lawncare service are a few examples) and which forms to fill out for deductions: the 1040, Schedule C and Form 4562.

From there, you can use the site like a cheat sheet along with any basic tax preparation service (see where you can file for free) to file deductions on everything from your home office to the gas used to travel to and from appointments. Line by line, it explains what specific lines are for and how to tie up all the loose ends at the end.


Read more: http://www.businessi...4#ixzz1rBeJ7pZf



#2076 PeaceFrog

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Posted 07 April 2012 - 08:15 PM

nice. the occupy movement has gone to hell.

Does it make you feel better, Joke, that you cheered on its demise since the very start?

Has it ever occurred to you that maybe you are part of the problem?

#2077 PeaceFrog

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Posted 07 April 2012 - 08:17 PM

in fact, no, not maybe.

You ARE part of the problem, and you are THE problem.

This reality belongs to all of us, and you are a part of it whether I or anyone else likes it or not.

Congratulations :thup:

#2078 Joker

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Posted 07 April 2012 - 11:18 PM

:lol:

Yeah, it's all my fault there are assholes involved in the movement.

Sorry you can't handle (or speak) the truth.

You should be happy though, the new 99%ers, led by MoveOn and the AFL-CIO, will corrupt what's left of Occupy and turn it into a movement to re-elect your man Obama. Who cares if he's backed by the same Wall St. corps they're "supposedly" railing against? :nuts:

It just sucks for those who were trying to do the right thing, for the right reason, that all their work and efforts are going to end up being shoved aside :heart:

#2079 TakeAStepBack

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Posted 08 April 2012 - 12:10 AM

Not me, Jack. Van Jones is a self proclaimed communist and got ejected from the O admin because of his radical ties. He's one of O's buds.

The movement is not going to get the real attention of the story out because it has been hijacked. Been that way for a long time now.

#2080 PeaceFrog

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Posted 08 April 2012 - 07:13 AM

you don't like the violence, but at the same time you view MoveOn and the AFL-CIO getting involved as a negative thing?

Do you think they'll bring more violence to the scene? What exactly is your problem with it?

That question was rhetorical. I don't need an answer. I merely like to point out your foolish thinking.

The viable candidates this round are either Barack Obama, or Marvelous Mitt.

Which side do you want to remember being on 30 years from now?

At this point, it doesn't even matter whose lever you actually pull at the poll. You're an Obama antagonist through and through. I don't know how you live with yourself.

#2081 Joker

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Posted 08 April 2012 - 02:17 PM

you don't like the violence, but at the same time you view MoveOn and the AFL-CIO getting involved as a negative thing? Do you think they'll bring more violence to the scene? What exactly is your problem with it? That question was rhetorical. I don't need an answer. I merely like to point out your foolish thinking.

I didn't say MoveOn or the AFL-CIO had anything to do with bringing violence to the scene.

What I said was that they "will corrupt what's left of Occupy and turn it into a movement to re-elect your man Obama."

It's YOUR foolish thinking that makes you believe I'm saying they're bringing more violence when I actually said nothing like that.

The viable candidates this round are either Barack Obama, or Marvelous Mitt. Which side do you want to remember being on 30 years from now? At this point, it doesn't even matter whose lever you actually pull at the poll. You're an Obama antagonist through and through. I don't know how you live with yourself.


Hell in 30 years we probably won't be allowed to vote at all.

And that's the bottom line. It doesn't matter which of those two levers you pull.

I'll continue to vote against the rigged system for as long as we're able to do so, that's the side I want to be remembered as being on.

You can go on defending OBushma all you want. Vote for him if it'll help you sleep better at night. He's in debt to the same Wall St corps. this movement is so against and he's done more to take away our rights than many other presidents. But go on and stick your head in the sand and give him your vote while pretending it makes a difference.

Then in 30 years when your grandkids are wondering how the government and the corporations have taken control of everything, you can lie to them and tell them you only had two choices.



Obama signs Patriot Act extension without reforms

Privacy advocates had called for greater oversight on aspects of the Patriot Act that give the government broad powers. But the version Obama signed Saturday moved through Congress unchanged.


President Obama signed a one-year extension of three sections of the USA Patriot Acton Saturday without any new limits on the measures that many liberal groups andDemocrats said were necessary to safeguard American civil liberties.

The provisions allow the government, with permission from a special court, to obtain roving wiretaps over multiple communication devices, seize suspects’ records without their knowledge, and conduct surveillance of a so-called “lone wolf,” or someone deemed suspicious but without any known ties to an organized terrorist group.

The Patriot Act drew heavy criticism from Democrats – Obama even once said it needed to be dialed back – during the Bush administration. But experts suggest that a string of foiled terrorist plots over the past year combined with the Democrats' falling ratings amid the healthcare debate blunted any move to reform the act, which was passed in the wake of 9/11.

http://www.csmonitor...without-reforms

#2082 PeaceFrog

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Posted 08 April 2012 - 10:28 PM

you're lying by saying I claim there are only 2 choices. Maybe you don't understand what the word viable means and are too lazy to look it up.

You're also lying by saying that anyone other than Obama or Romney could realistically win the election.

It's funny that you go calling everyone on the board that you disagree with a liar, but no-one has to scratch the surface too deeply to figure out that just about everything you say is a lie.

Again, it doesn't matter which lever you pull. You assume that I will pull the Obama lever but chances are that I won't. However, I give the man credit where it is due. He is much better than John McCain could ever be, and I'm sure Mitt Romney too (Ron Paul goes without even saying, but for you I'll be extra inclusive).

#2083 PeaceFrog

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Posted 08 April 2012 - 10:35 PM

oh and you've been saying your problem with OWS was the violence, but really it isn't that. You're lying again. You don't hate violence. You hate Obama, and you view OWS as a herd of Obama supporters.

#2084 Joker

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Posted 09 April 2012 - 11:29 AM

you're lying by saying I claim there are only 2 choices. Maybe you don't understand what the word viable means and are too lazy to look it up. You're also lying by saying that anyone other than Obama or Romney could realistically win the election. It's funny that you go calling everyone on the board that you disagree with a liar, but no-one has to scratch the surface too deeply to figure out that just about everything you say is a lie. Again, it doesn't matter which lever you pull. You assume that I will pull the Obama lever but chances are that I won't. However, I give the man credit where it is due. He is much better than John McCain could ever be, and I'm sure Mitt Romney too (Ron Paul goes without even saying, but for you I'll be extra inclusive).



:lol:

Where did I say you claimed there were only two choices? I didn't.

Where did I say that anyone other than Obama and Romney could win? I didn't.

It's funny how you just make shit up and think it's true but no-one has to scratch the surface too deeply to figure out that just about everything you say is a lie.

You're the one that said you'd pull the lever for Obama if you thought your vote mattered.


It's really no wonder you're ignored and written off as a fool by pretty much everyone here. I don't doubt for a second that it's the same for you IRL.


:loopeye: Derp on troll, derp on. :loopeye:

#2085 vic

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Posted 09 April 2012 - 03:39 PM

nice. the occupy movement has gone to hell.


glad you think so...



#2086 TakeAStepBack

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Posted 09 April 2012 - 03:50 PM

Fighting over deck chairs on a sinking ship seems rather trivial to me.

#2087 vic

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 02:16 PM

http://occupywallst....treet-occupied/

For the first time since our movement against economic inequality and political corruption began, Occupy Wall Street is literally occupying Wall Street. As of 3am eastern time, over 40 Occupiers are sleeping on Wall Street near the corner of Broad across from the New York Stock Exchange. Everyone angry at the greed of the financial system is encouraged to bring a sleeping bag! Follow on Twitter: #SleepOnWallSt, #SleepfulProtest
Update: Just before 8am Eastern, NYPD arrived with zipties and informed the protesters they had to be out of the way. Livestream has been put back up.
Posted Image
Background: On March 16, we attempted to peacefully re-occupy Liberty Square (formerly Zucotti Park), the small park just south of Wall Street that had become home to Occupy Wall Street exactly six months earlier. The NYPD had other plans. They attacked us once again. When many homeless Occupiers were left with nowhere to go, many went north to Union Square in midtown Manhattan. Union Square, which has been a central point in popular struggle in New York City for over a century, quickly became a central point for the Occupy movement as well.
As an excuse to arrest and harass Occupiers, the NYPD began enforcing a midnight park closing rule for the first time in history. In response, Occupiers developed a new tactic: Sleeping on sidewalks directly in front of banks. Rather than allowing the NYPD to muddy our message by re-framing the narrative as ¨police versus protesters,¨ we returned to the banks for our real battle: the 99% versus the 1%. The police merely enforce the system; Wall Street is our real enemy.
On April 6, NYPD gathered once again for the nightly ¨eviction theater¨ only to find Occupiers had moved to the sidewalks and erected a sign declaring their legal right to do so. When police moved in arrest them, Occupiers on livestream read the law permitting sleeping on sidewalks as political protest. In Metropolitan v. Safir, the U.S. District Court covering New York City ruled that ¨ the First Amendment of the United States Constitution does not allow the City to prevent an orderly political protest from using public sleeping as a means of symbolic expression."
The police backed down. The tactic quickly became a model for other Occupations. Occupy DC can be found sleeping outside of a Bank of America near their old encampment at McPherson Square, while Occupy Philadelphia have taken their message and sleeping bags to Wells Fargo on Chestnut Street, near occupied Independence Mall.
Now, the tactic has been applied to, finally, occupy Wall Street.
These bank protests are part of the latest wave of the spring resurgence of Occupy leading up to a major day of demonstration and a General Strike on May 1st. From the Chicago Spring to recent attempted re-occupations in San Francisco, Minneapolis, and many other places, as long as banks keep taking our homes and receiving massive public bailouts from corrupt governments, we will make our discontent known by making our new homes right in front of them.

#2088 Joker

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 07:03 PM

Judge Rules Not to Dismiss Charges for Zuccotti Trespasser; OWS Legal Battle Moves Forward


A judge has ruled not to dismiss charges against a protester who is at the center of an ongoing court battle surrounding the legality of thefamous shutdown of Zuccotti Park at the peak of Occupy Wall Street's demonstrations in November.

This latest decision sets the stage for a contentious trial this spring where opposing sides will debate what actually happened on November 15th when police raided OWS and removed all protesters from Zuccotti Park, which is a privately-owned public space.
It's a pretty complex legal fight, but here's a quick recap: The New York Civil Liberties Union, on behalf of a protester named Ronny Nunez, has argued that Brookfield Properties, the park's private owners, had no legal right to kick everyone out of the park, which is zoned as a public space that must be accessible all day. The private owners, with the support of the city, have argued that Brookfield can implement rules and regulations and that it rightfully -- and only temporarily -- removed people from the park due to safety hazards tied to the campsites OWS had set up.

Nunez -- who is charged with trespass, disorderly conduct, and obstruction of governmental administration -- became a trespasser once he refused to leave the park, according to Brookfield's arguments. But the NYCLU and Nunez's attorney say that the private owners and the city did not follow proper procedures and also argue that the city had no right to set up barricades and limit access to the park after the eviction, even if a temporary shutdown was justified.

The latest tactic of Nunez and the NYCLU was to ask the judge to dismiss the charges against him -- but on Friday, Criminal Court Judge Matthew Sciarrino Jr. said that the case would move forward and that Nunez had no right to refuse to leave the park.

In his decision, sent to the Voice this morning, the judge writes:

It is clear that if the allegations are proven true, the conditions in Zuccotti Park at the time of the order to vacate posed a serious hazard to the health and safety of those occupying the park, the City's first responders, and the surrounding community. Moreover, the conditions also interfered with the community and general public's ability to utilize the park for the passive recreation activities for which it was built. Faced with these deteriorating conditions, Brookfield temporarily revoked the license of the occupiers to remain in the park so that it could be cleaned and various fire and other safety hazards could be addressed. The People argue that these actions were lawful and within the scope of Brookfield's authority. This court agrees.

The private owners were allowed to implement reasonable rules and did not violate free speech rights, the judge argues, noting, "There exists no basis to conclude that Brookfield's prohibitions were applied to the defendant and other members of Occupy Wall Street because of any disagreement with their message. These rules applied to anyone using the park."

The tent city as described by the property owners was a hazard, the judge continues, and officials told the protesters that they needed to temporarily leave: "It is clear that when the defendant was ordered by the police to vacate the park, he was not legally entitled to refuse."


More
http://blogs.village...e_rules_not.php

#2089 Feck

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 07:26 PM

the First Amendment of the United States Constitution does not allow the City to prevent an orderly political protest from using public sleeping as a means of symbolic expression

ADJECTIVE:

Free from disorder; neat:

Having a systematic arrangement: an orderly universe.

Marked by or adhering to method or system: orderly in the upkeep of his rooms

Devoid of violence or disruption; peaceful: an orderly transition of governments

#2090 vic

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 07:41 PM

the First Amendment of the United States Constitution does not allow the City to prevent an orderly political protest from using public sleeping as a means of symbolic expression ADJECTIVE: Free from disorder; neat: Having a systematic arrangement: an orderly universe. Marked by or adhering to method or system: orderly in the upkeep of his rooms Devoid of violence or disruption; peaceful: an orderly transition of governments


what is your point? the protest is orderly...i don't think the opinion of whether or not the encampment was tidy enough for some really factors in here

besides, they were referring to the CURRENT action of sleeping at NYSE, which even the police backed off from making arrests according to the story above

#2091 Joker

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 08:10 PM

the First Amendment of the United States Constitution does not allow the City to prevent an orderly political protest from using public sleeping as a means of symbolic expression ADJECTIVE: Free from disorder; neat: Having a systematic arrangement: an orderly universe. Marked by or adhering to method or system: orderly in the upkeep of his rooms Devoid of violence or disruption; peaceful: an orderly transition of governments


It looks like there was other criteria that had to be met for the case that's being cited. Judging from past protests there's no way they'll stay within those limits. I think they'd have to apply for permits, only be allowed a certain amount of space, a limited number of participants etc...

It's clearly not as clear cut as OWS is trying to make it out to be.

#2092 Feck

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 08:14 PM

from my perspective, when they shut down OWS @ Zucotti, it was far from orderly.
i saw it every day with my own 2 eyes, sometime more than once a day.
internal theft and reports of violence - by people staying there - against people staying there were getting more and more common.
there were even reports of attempted rapes/molestation, and violence against random passers by.

if they can keep this new group from going down that path, GREAT.

#2093 vic

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 08:24 PM

if they can keep this new group from going down that path, GREAT.


i would agree...while zuccotti served as a beacon for the movement, an encampment can only be sustained by the people who had the right intentions for so long, especially when leaderless...but don't forget that the encampment was under attack by NYPD from the beginning, not when isolated incidents occurred such as the ones you mentioned


when i was there in october, i saw none of which you speak, and i saw nothing but togetherness and strong spirits with a purpose...what i'm seeing now is without encampments, the message is starting to rebloom...mayday is going to be very telling as to where this movement is going and how much traction it still has

i love this current tactic of "sleepful protest"...it's going on here in philly too and when i get a chance i will reconnect and participate, probably this weekend, and i plan on being back in NY for mayday

#2094 Feck

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 08:48 PM

i think we tend to see what we want and overlook what we don't want to see or admit too. from the begining (NYC Oyster Fest) i saw the OWS crowd as disruptive, sometimes violent. i also belive 2 wrongs do not make a right.

#2095 PeaceFrog

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 04:14 AM

I haven't given up on the movement.

I'm just tired of the concerned trolls on this message board.

Real life goes on within you and without you.

(also, I don't care if they think they've won... that leaves them more vulnerable than if they think they're losing.)

#2096 TakeAStepBack

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 02:55 PM

What is the OWS suppose to accomplish again?

#2097 freerange

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 03:11 PM

i think they have brought a heightened awareness to the lengthened gap between the very rich and working poor
so much so conservatives are trying to find solutions...up north conservatives anyway
different animal by and large

#2098 TakeAStepBack

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 03:15 PM

Inideed. So mission accomplished. Why continue mobbing the city streets to say the same thing? I dont get it.

#2099 Feck

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 03:26 PM

up north conservatives anyway


still leaves a lot of ground / people to cover

#2100 freerange

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 03:27 PM

i think you had it right responding in my thread.