42 replies to this topic

[china cat]

http://www.guardian....charlie-skelton

"September 11, he argues, was a coup carried out by a rogue network within the US military and government. A cabal of fascists, working with (and for) a banking oligarchy, "the old boys of Wall Street."

"You want to blame Saudi Arabia, or Israel, or Pakistan? You can't. There isn't the evidence." The evidence, Tarpley says, points towards 9/11 as a false flag attack, carried out by a high level clique, that forced a shocked and awestruck US public into a vast and still ongoing war. It was America's very own Reichstag fire. And the official version of the event? "A racist, militaristic, and fascist myth that we must reject."


What I heard, from speaker after speaker, was a heartfelt desire to turn away from the path of destruction, militarism and lies that America has been set upon after 9/11. Ray McGovern, a former CIA analyst, mourned for Iraq: "One million dead, 4m displaced, and that's a victory?" He sees the failure of Americans to comprehend the scale of the destruction wrought under their flag as nothing less than racist. "In America, we are very good at segregating our tears. Racism is our original sin."

"We have to do something. Even if that something is simply to Google 'Cass Sunstein' and start from there. Begin your own cognitive infiltration. Google 'Vigilant Guardian' or 'Able Danger'. Crosscheck 'Abdel Hakim Belhadj' and 'Al-Qaida'. Begin digging. Begin thinking. And stop believing."

[china cat]

Another speaker, Mike Rivero, addressed the outrage, which he often felt when the "false flag" analysis of 9/11 is presented. The idea that "we would never do such a thing" or "it's not the sort of thing governments do." He gave a whistlestop tour of state-sponsored attacks and hoodwinkings: the Lusitania, the Maine, the Dodgy Dossier, Saddam's nuclear weapons, the staged burning of the Reichstag, and the notorious Gleiwitz incident in which the Nazis faked an attack on a German radio station to justify the invasion of Poland. His point being that 9/11 was "not unique". There's a historical context.

[china cat]

I just googled: Abdel Hakim Belhadj' and 'Al-Qaida. He's now at the forefront of the "liberation" of Libya. hmm.. funny how U.S. makes friends.

“Libyan rebel commander admits his fighters have al-Qaeda links: Abdel-Hakim al-Hasidi, the Libyan rebel leader, has said jihadists who fought against allied troops in Iraq are on the front lines of the battle against Muammar Gaddafi’s regime,”

http://tarpley.net/2...-hakim-belhadj/

http://www.asharq-e....tion=1&id=26357

further down the rabbit hole... the justification for the hatred others have toward this nation becomes more abundantly clear, day after day.

[china cat]

"This gaggle of fanatics, psychotics, and criminals is billed by the CIA media as an effective ruling elite for the future democratic governance of Libya. In reality, the Benghazi rebel council, heavily larded with al Qaeda terrorists, could only preside over the descent of the country into a chaos of tribalism, warlords, and criminal syndicates which would spell the end of civilization itself in the area. Precisely this appears to be the goal of US policy, and not just in Libya."


So our troops (and innocent civilians) are dying in Afghanistan in order to fight terrorists that our government is arming and supporting in Libya?

[seany]

And we've been here again and again and again for 60+ years. Sooo, what are you/we going to try to tell the U.S. public this time around so that they might listen? Because the above stuff isn't going to do it. Too obscure or intellectual for an average Joe. Who's your audience? you going to preach to a choir, turn a few smart people, or enrage the average public?

I applaud your enthusiasm, but I doubt it matters. People serve their own interests and right now that is jobs, insurance, paying rent, college, etc. Not who schemed to destroy the WTC 10 yrs ago and get us into a perpetual war. Hell, I really doubt that you and I will see the light of day of classified documents on the Kennedy assassination in our lifetime. Think you're going to know the whole truth about 9/11, the wars, Al Quaeda, bin Laden? Never going to happen...

[china cat]

well, we certainly won't if everybody stops bothering to post, talk, and ask questions. but your right, sean. no one gives a shit.

we deserve what we get.

[china cat]

awesome

[Joker]

Great video

well, we certainly won't if everybody stops bothering to post, talk, and ask questions. but your right, sean. no one gives a shit.

we deserve what we get.

That's the bottom line, once we give up at least trying to make a difference and say fuck it why bother, all hope is lost.

Better to go down fighting even if people think you're some sort of conspiracy crackpot rather than go down with your head in the sand.

[bizzle]

awesome

You said it! And all that in under 6 mins. I generally don't talk with that many people about this topic because there are so many people willing to swallow every bit of the pure unadulterated all american bullshit that gets hammered into their brains by the media machine. Sad, but history will continue to repeat itself. The major wars this country has fought have ALL largely been in the hands of people who stood to make a lot of money from them. At the cost of human life.

Edited by bizzle, 14 September 2011 - 12:31 PM.
grammar

[TakeAStepBack]

And we've been here again and again and again for 60+ years. Sooo, what are you/we going to try to tell the U.S. public this time around so that they might listen? Because the above stuff isn't going to do it. Too obscure or intellectual for an average Joe. Who's your audience? you going to preach to a choir, turn a few smart people, or enrage the average public?

I applaud your enthusiasm, but I doubt it matters. People serve their own interests and right now that is jobs, insurance, paying rent, college, etc. Not who schemed to destroy the WTC 10 yrs ago and get us into a perpetual war. Hell, I really doubt that you and I will see the light of day of classified documents on the Kennedy assassination in our lifetime. Think you're going to know the whole truth about 9/11, the wars, Al Quaeda, bin Laden? Never going to happen...

Ser. Seany. Whenever one of us speaks out, you always find your way in to make the same old assertion. I can certainly understand your frustration after our discussions in other politically charged threads, but it just seems like you get offended that we bring it up.

There is hopefully at least ONE person out there that might pay attention, learn something and begin to unravel the sweater. Hell, they may go on to get one more person to take a look and ask some questions.

Whether it be in here or somewhere else. If something like this doesn't matter, I find it really difficult to find anything that does. These are life/world/history changing events. if we can not speak the change we want to see, how will we ever be it?

[seany]

I'm not offended, just maybe a little too too much of a pragmatist

Keep up the good fight

[TakeAStepBack]

Besides, breh. That leval of cynicism is not the way in CC pants. You have to at least pretend to enjoy her conversation topics.

[china cat]

[seany]

Besides, breh. That leval of cynicism is not the way in CC pants. You have to at least pretend to enjoy her conversation topics.

You obviously haven't seen her best band evah at Wormtown. You're in for a treat. No memory'd mornings

[TakeAStepBack]

So you prefer she not remember...

[china cat]

ok, Back to your regularly scheduled thread..

http://sabbah.biz/mt...n-war-bush-911/

The United States spent millions of dollars to supply Afghan schoolchildren with textbooks filled with violent images and militant Islamic teachings....The primers, which were filled with talk of jihad and featured drawings of guns, bullets, soldiers and mines, have served since then as the Afghan school system's core curriculum. Even the Taliban used the American-produced books,..", (Washington Post, 23 March 2002)"Advertisements, paid for from CIA funds, were placed in newspapers and newsletters around the world offering inducements and motivations to join the [Islamic] Jihad." (Pervez Hoodbhoy, Peace Research, 1 May 2005)
"Bin Laden recruited 4,000 volunteers from his own country and developed close relations with the most radical mujahideen leaders. He also worked closely with the CIA, ... Since September 11, [2001] CIA officials have been claiming they had no direct link to bin Laden." (Phil Gasper, International Socialist Review, November-December 2001)

• Osama bin Laden, America's bogyman, was recruited by the CIA in 1979 at the very outset of the US sponsored jihad. He was 22 years old and was trained in a CIA sponsored guerilla training camp.
  
• The architects of the covert operation in support of "Islamic fundamentalism" launched during the Reagan presidency played a key role in launching the "Global War on Terrorism" in the wake of 9/11.
  
• President Ronald Reagan met the leaders of the Islamic Jihad at the White House in 1983
  
• Under the Reagan adminstration, US foreign policy evolved towards the unconditional support and endorsement of the Islamic "freedom fighters". In today's World, the "freedom fighters" are labelled "Islamic terrorists".
  
• In the Pashtun language, the word "Taliban" means "Students", or graduates of the madrasahs (places of learning or coranic schools) set up by the Wahhabi missions from Saudi Arabia, with the support of the CIA. Education in the years preceding the Soviet-Afghan war war largely secular in Afghanistan. The number of CIA sponsored religious schools (madrasahs) increased from 2,500 in 1980 to over 39,000.

The Soviet-Afghan war was part of a CIA covert agenda initiated during the Carter administration, which consisted in actively supporting and financing the Islamic brigades, later known as Al Qaeda.

[TakeAStepBack]

The Power of Nightmares

a BBC documentary film series, written and produced by Adam Curtis. Its three one-hour parts consist mostly of a montage of archive footage with Curtis's narration. The series was first broadcast in the United Kingdom in late 2004 and has subsequently been broadcast in multiple countries and shown in several film festivals, including the 2005 Cannes Film Festival.

The films compare the rise of the Neo-Conservative movement in the United States and the radical Islamist movement, making comparisons on their origins and claiming similarities between the two. More controversially, it argues that the threat of radical Islamism as a massive, sinister organised force of destruction, specifically in the form of al-Qaeda, is a myth perpetrated by politicians in many countries—and particularly American Neo-Conservatives—in an attempt to unite and inspire their people following the failure of earlier, more utopian ideologies.

[china cat]

[quote name='TakeAStepBack'][URL="http://www.archive.org/details/ThePowerOfNightmares"]The Power of Nightmares[/URL]

a BBC documentary film series, written and produced by Adam Curtis. Its three one-hour parts consist mostly of a montage of archive footage with Curtis's narration. The series was first broadcast in the United Kingdom in late 2004 and has subsequently been broadcast in multiple countries and shown in several film festivals, including the 2005 Cannes Film Festival.

The films compare the rise of the Neo-Conservative movement in the United States and the radical Islamist movement, making comparisons on their origins and claiming similarities between the two. [B]More controversially, it argues that the threat of radical Islamism as a massive, sinister organised force of destruction, specifically in the form of al-Qaeda, is a myth perpetrated by politicians in many countries

[Joker]

Besides, breh. That leval of cynicism is not the way in CC pants. You have to at least pretend to enjoy her conversation topics.

Is that the only reason you respond to my topics?

I'm hurt yet strangely excited in my political polling area

[seany]

ok, Back to your regularly scheduled thread..

http://sabbah.biz/mt...n-war-bush-911/

The United States spent millions of dollars to supply Afghan schoolchildren with textbooks filled with violent images and militant Islamic teachings....The primers, which were filled with talk of jihad and featured drawings of guns, bullets, soldiers and mines, have served since then as the Afghan school system's core curriculum. Even the Taliban used the American-produced books,..", (Washington Post, 23 March 2002)"Advertisements, paid for from CIA funds, were placed in newspapers and newsletters around the world offering inducements and motivations to join the [Islamic] Jihad." (Pervez Hoodbhoy, Peace Research, 1 May 2005)
"Bin Laden recruited 4,000 volunteers from his own country and developed close relations with the most radical mujahideen leaders. He also worked closely with the CIA, ... Since September 11, [2001] CIA officials have been claiming they had no direct link to bin Laden." (Phil Gasper, International Socialist Review, November-December 2001)

• Osama bin Laden, America's bogyman, was recruited by the CIA in 1979 at the very outset of the US sponsored jihad. He was 22 years old and was trained in a CIA sponsored guerilla training camp.
  
• The architects of the covert operation in support of "Islamic fundamentalism" launched during the Reagan presidency played a key role in launching the "Global War on Terrorism" in the wake of 9/11.
  
• President Ronald Reagan met the leaders of the Islamic Jihad at the White House in 1983
  
• Under the Reagan adminstration, US foreign policy evolved towards the unconditional support and endorsement of the Islamic "freedom fighters". In today's World, the "freedom fighters" are labelled "Islamic terrorists".
  
• In the Pashtun language, the word "Taliban" means "Students", or graduates of the madrasahs (places of learning or coranic schools) set up by the Wahhabi missions from Saudi Arabia, with the support of the CIA. Education in the years preceding the Soviet-Afghan war war largely secular in Afghanistan. The number of CIA sponsored religious schools (madrasahs) increased from 2,500 in 1980 to over 39,000.

The Soviet-Afghan war was part of a CIA covert agenda initiated during the Carter administration, which consisted in actively supporting and financing the Islamic brigades, later known as Al Qaeda.

This is a huge over-simplification to meet the author's premise.

Yes we recruited and financed bin Laden and his freedom fighters. Yes we provided the funding for madrasahs in Afghanistan. That CIA action was all directed at taking down the Soviets when they were the boogeyman. Once they withdrew (and ultimately collapsed), we left Afghanistan and the people there. No further support to actually help build a stable society after years of war, tribal infighting, and desperation.

And then comes Kuwait and we roll into Saudi Arabia and set up our bases there (in holy cities), shun bin Laden and his freedom fighters who offered to help, and basically stick a finger in their eye. Thanks for helping with the Soviets, but they're old news. We need a new boogey man to fight. But we'll cozy up with the oppressive Saudi's, all the while supporting Israel and ignoring the Palestinians.

It's all very complicated math. And, IMO, we reap what we sow and have done so time and time again since we truly began "superpower" interventionist/colonialist foreign policies back in the '40s. The birth of our military-industrial complex, if you will. Our current puppet is our next boogeyman. Rinse and repeat.

[TakeAStepBack]

This is a huge over-simplification to meet the author's premise.

Yes we recruited and financed bin Laden and his freedom fighters. Yes we provided the funding for madrasahs in Afghanistan. That CIA action was all directed at taking down the Soviets when they were the boogeyman. Once they withdrew (and ultimately collapsed), we left Afghanistan and the people there. No further support to actually help build a stable society after years of war, tribal infighting, and desperation.

And then comes Kuwait and we roll into Saudi Arabia and set up our bases there (in holy cities), shun bin Laden and his freedom fighters who offered to help, and basically stick a finger in their eye. Thanks for helping with the Soviets, but they're old news. We need a new boogey man to fight. But we'll cozy up with the oppressive Saudi's, all the while supporting Israel and ignoring the Palestinians.

It's all very complicated math. And, IMO, we reap what we sow and have done so time and time again since we truly began "superpower" interventionist/colonialist foreign policies back in the '40s. The birth of our military-industrial complex, if you will. Our current puppet is our next boogeyman. Rinse and repeat.

This is a huge over-simplification to meet the author's premise.

Kuwait was a close ally of Iraq during the Iraq-Iran war and functioned as the country

[seany]

I realize the Kuwait connection (and everything else I just said) was an over-simplification, hence no dissertation

I'm not here to recite history for you, baller. My point was merely that our CIA actions w/ bin laden were not necessarily meant to create the next boogeyman, they were meant to deal with the current one. We just have a great history of making our current friends our next boogeymen

[TakeAStepBack]

I know. I think that the original over-simplification was done for the same reason.

There is a ton of historical information to absorb inorder to fully grasp how these covert/overt geopolitical events unfold and how it concussions through future events.

I AM here to recite history for you, baller. (condescending wink)

[seany]

Looking forward to finally hanging with you at Wormtown

[china cat]

while an oversimplication, is anything about the statement is false The Soviet-Afghan war was part of a CIA covert agenda initiated during the Carter administration, which consisted in actively supporting and financing the Islamic brigades, later known as Al Qaeda.

we always have a boogeyman, sean. your follow up does nothing to alter my position and i think we both agree on the danger and hypocrisy of u.s. foreign policy.

[seany]

By oversimplification on that particular point, I meant that it would be folly to say that our "financing the Islamic brigades" in Afghanistan had a known and obvious end-point of Al Qaeda. Had our policies been different, Al Qaeda may have never existed. Many paths in the woods but we seem to have a knack of picking the worst traveled. I'm sure the CIA and State Dept diplomats must bang their head against the wall every time policy decisions come down from DC. It's a perpetual trainwreck.

[TEO]

CC is this awakening a relatively new break-through for you?
(as in last several years)

[bizzle]

WE are the boogeyman! Well the puppetmasters that run our government are anyway....*coughfedreserveCOUGHcough*

[china cat]

CC is this awakening a relatively new break-through for you?
(as in last several years)

yep. used to believe in my leaders. never bothered to (never thought to) question or look deeper. along with most americans (who are still in the dark)


probably 9/11 that started the questions

glad i'm waking up and glad that there are people like tasb and joker shouting it from the roof tops.

[TakeAStepBack]

Prolly have to come down from the rooftop after this month. it''s gonna start to get cold and standing up here by myself while fellow citizens tell me to shut up because Im interupting TV time just isn't as fulfilling as joining them in watching the tellie.

[TEO]

yep. used to believe in my leaders. never bothered to (never thought to) question or look deeper. along with most americans (who are still in the dark)


probably 9/11 that started the questions

glad i'm waking up and glad that there are people like tasb and joker shouting it from the roof tops.

[china cat]

Prolly have to come down from the rooftop after this month. it''s gonna start to get cold and standing up here by myself while fellow citizens tell me to shut up because Im interupting TV time just isn't as fulfilling as joining them in watching the tellie.

don't get in the way of jersey shore! hell hath no fury!

[Smiles]

probably 9/11 that started the questions

Same here. I remember the exact moment. All 9/11 I muddled with my teen angsty mind: Why? Why would anyone do this to America? Why would anyone sacrifice their lives to kill so many innocent people?

Then Bush comes on TV with "America was targeted for attack because we're the brightest beacon for freedom and opportunity in the world."


All at once I felt anger, betrayal, incredulity. Who is going to believe that? Who hates freedom? Who hates opportunity? Might as well said it was all our fucking cute puppies and picnic lunches. I did some reading, (Chomsky's Pentagon Papers being one of the first and most influential) learned that we are not exactly a beacon for freedom and opportunity, unless you consider the liberation of our south Vietnamese allies skin with napalm a sort of freedom.

There are lots of reasons for a sane person to hate America, especially if you come from a country where we are supporting a brutal/oppressive dictator, our corporations are stealing your natural resources etc. I have no problem believing a violent group of religious fanatics plotted to hijack some planes and fly them into our centers of government and finance. Why wouldn't they? What took them so long?

[china cat]

[vic]

"In America, we are very good at segregating our tears."

what a sad sad truth

[china cat]

Prolly have to come down from the rooftop after this month. it''s gonna start to get cold and standing up here by myself while fellow citizens tell me to shut up because Im interupting TV time just isn't as fulfilling as joining them in watching the tellie.

[B][SIZE=3]"Let it not be said that no one cared, that no one objected once it

[TakeAStepBack]

It is no coincidence that the century of total war coincided with the century of central banking.”
― Ron Paul

[TakeAStepBack]

I'm just diving into Ron's books. I plan to read them all before year end. He's quickly becoming one of my most cherished philosophers.

[seany]

Philosopher? Seriously?

[china cat]

go away sean

[seany]

Sorry, I'm here to stop you from drowning in your own koolaid Vodka maybe, koolaid no

[TakeAStepBack]

Philosopher? Seriously?

What Paul presents is a lost philosophy regarding liberty, government and personal responsibility.

Political philosophy is...well....philosophy, seany.

[TakeAStepBack]

Philosopher? Seriously?

go away sean

Nah. While he's a bit sandpaper-ish. He isn't insulting.