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#1 In A Silent Way

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Posted 14 August 2014 - 12:57 AM

WTF is going on? Cop shoots kid under circumstances still unclear and disputed, protestors greeted by show of force, looting, militarized police, journalists ordered out and arrested, airspace closed by the FAA. 

 

Here's a Livestream of the protest happening now. Music playing, people gathered peacefully, 

http://www.balloon-j...guson-protests/

 

 



#2 Royal

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Posted 14 August 2014 - 05:18 AM

I don't know man, it's seems like everywhere you look, Iraq, Missouri, history is repeating itself.

#3 deadheadskier

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Posted 14 August 2014 - 05:33 AM

WTF is going on?

injustice

 

and negative reaction to an over-militarized police force.  that shit has to stop.  glad the people are standing up.  



#4 concert andy

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Posted 14 August 2014 - 01:02 PM

The best way to help those protesting...  join the protest en masse.

 

I am appalled by this story.



#5 In A Silent Way

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Posted 14 August 2014 - 01:53 PM

When are the responsible adults coming back to Ferguson? The kids are having a party and they've found the weapons. 



#6 Lemireacle

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Posted 14 August 2014 - 02:24 PM

I agree, Andy... totally appalling! So tragic!

 

I've been completely baffled that the officer hasn't been identified yet!



#7 concert andy

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Posted 14 August 2014 - 02:43 PM

I agree, Andy... totally appalling! So tragic!

 

I've been completely baffled that the officer hasn't been identified yet!

 

Why would they send the military to quell a protest?

 

Riot police weren't enough?

 

how americas police became army  (pentagon?)

 

http://www.newsweek....-program-264537

 

 

 

 

Anonymous on Twitter tweeted the following...  I even retweeted it.  If true, shocking.

 

 

Wife of Ferguson police chief attacked for allegedly calling black people ‘feral’

 

"Feral." - Allegedly racist FB post from wife of police chief. MT #Fergusonhttp://t.co/uMURiOJfql @darius_roberti @_Physicism

— 
David M. Perry (@Lollardfish) August 12, 2014



#8 concert andy

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Posted 14 August 2014 - 02:46 PM

The Militarization of the Police

 

http://www.slate.com...protesters.html

 

140813_POL_FergusonCops2.jpg.CROP.promov



#9 MeOmYo

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Posted 14 August 2014 - 02:53 PM

I agree, Andy... totally appalling! So tragic!

 

I've been completely baffled that the officer hasn't been identified yet!

 

death threats are why he hasn't been identified.  if he was in the wrong, due process should take it's course, not vigilante justice.



#10 TEO

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Posted 14 August 2014 - 03:04 PM

How "safe" does this make you feel?



#11 djinn_n_juice

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Posted 14 August 2014 - 03:32 PM

You'll see more of this sort thing going forward.  Cops have this air of invulnerability, they think they can do anything they want, and largely they are allowed by the courts and the corporate overlords to do just that.  Have to keep your lackeys happy, otherwise who will guard your gates when the people storm them?  There has always been an "us vs. them" mentality among cops, I know this first hand.  Recently it seems to have gotten much worse, the abuses witnessed during the occupy protests should have shown clearly how cops really think, that EVERYONE who isn't a cop or rich and well connected is viewed by them as the enemy.



#12 In A Silent Way

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Posted 14 August 2014 - 04:20 PM

The Militarization of the Police

 

http://www.slate.com...protesters.html

 

140813_POL_FergusonCops2.jpg.CROP.promov

 

What we used to call the "thin blue line" seems to be redefined as the protestor with his hands up. This will be the iconic image from Ferguson. 

 

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances. Void where prohibited by law.



#13 concert andy

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Posted 14 August 2014 - 08:01 PM

I do not see very much coverage of this story on the major "News" websites, except MSNBC.  



#14 TEO

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Posted 14 August 2014 - 08:19 PM

Far less coverage than one would think it should get.



#15 concert andy

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Posted 14 August 2014 - 08:50 PM

Far less coverage than one would think it should get.

 

'xactly!  



#16 Julius

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Posted 15 August 2014 - 03:12 AM

 

I agree, Andy... totally appalling! So tragic!

 

I've been completely baffled that the officer hasn't been identified yet!

 

death threats are why he hasn't been identified.  if he was in the wrong, due process should take it's course, not vigilante justice.

 

I disagree. Let's see how much world "outrage" there is when he is mauled by the mob and take it from there. 



#17 In A Silent Way

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Posted 15 August 2014 - 01:43 PM

They're expected to release the cop's name this morning. 



#18 In A Silent Way

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Posted 15 August 2014 - 01:47 PM

Presser on now. Releasing dispatch tapes and deetz of a strong-arm robbery. And officer's name. 



#19 Lemireacle

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Posted 15 August 2014 - 02:02 PM

Far less coverage than one would think it should get.

 

Agreed, I think or would like to think that will change some when the officer's name is finally released.



#20 Royal

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Posted 18 August 2014 - 07:16 AM

I'm not saying my thought is right, I'm not sure but here goes:

If all of the military and police just left the area, do you think the citizens would go and loot again. I kind of think the citizens of Ferguson would probably just bad glad it's over and go home.

What's your opinion, I'd like to know.

#21 Spidergawd

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Posted 18 August 2014 - 12:28 PM

What a terrible travesty this has been.  One thing I'd like to tell the police is that YOU ARE FUCKING CIVILIANS JUST LIKE US!!  This hyper militarization is one of things that actually frightens me for our future.

 

The other thing is how this event has broken through the very thin veneer of civility in this country to REALLY bring out the most ignorant, disgusting and despicable racists we have.  I'm sickened by it.  The only sort of "good" thing about it is that I now know a few people with whom I NEVER wish to associate.

 

I think I'll stop there.  I'm at work and don't want to get any angrier at the moment, and this shit will do that.



#22 TakeAStepBack

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Posted 18 August 2014 - 12:37 PM

They show up with protest signs, the police show up with rubber bullets, tear gas and batons. See how that works?



#23 Depends

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Posted 18 August 2014 - 03:00 PM

They show up with protest signs, the police show up with rubber bullets, tear gas and batons. See how that works?

Maybe they consider this progress.  45 years ago @ Kent State, the bullets were not rubber.



#24 TakeAStepBack

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Posted 18 August 2014 - 05:00 PM

Well, yes. It is progress for the farmers not to have to kill the cattle when they stampede or become restless.



#25 Tim the Beek

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Posted 18 August 2014 - 07:35 PM

This hyper militarization is one of things that actually frightens me for our future.

 

 

 

I concur.



#26 JBetty

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Posted 18 August 2014 - 07:43 PM

Let's keep cur out of this mess.



#27 TakeAStepBack

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Posted 18 August 2014 - 10:35 PM

Let's keep cur out of this mess.

:lol:



#28 Taarven

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Posted 19 August 2014 - 12:35 AM

Here is John Oliver with a primer if your not following the play by play (which you should, this is just the beginning of the disenfranchised, ostracized masses pushing back). Whether they are doing it correctly or not is a separate conversation. 

 

http://www.askmen.co...iver-08-18.html



#29 Tim the Beek

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Posted 19 August 2014 - 02:19 AM

Let's keep cur out of this mess.

:fasepaum:



#30 Royal

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Posted 19 August 2014 - 04:53 AM

Okay, I'm wondering how does affect us as Americans. And when I say Americans, I mean North Americans.

How in danger are we of burnin and looting and over pumped out police violating our rights?

I know there were lots of riots in the 1960's. There was a near riot in Poughkeepsie that was stopped because the mayor came on the scene standing on the back of a truck. He listened and answered questions. If hadn't done that many people believe that downtown Poughkeepsie would have been burned down.

Let me put it this way. Post where you live (and work if different) and tell me are you more afraid of a riot incident/police response in your area or the overall negative influence over our rights as Americans?

#31 Taarven

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Posted 20 August 2014 - 12:43 AM

Im in CT, I am as honest and law abiding as you can get. I pay taxes, zero drugs or pot, I drink beer just at home, pay my taxes and have good credit. And every time I see a cop my heart skips a beat and I get nervous....why is that?



#32 Julius

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Posted 20 August 2014 - 05:06 AM

I still say give the mob what it wants and this whole thing will be over.  Sacrifice that fucker at the altar of the crowd, right or wrong, it will surely save the lives of the next people to get shot while protesting. 

 

But that won't happen because even though it's the most efficient outcome, it's not "the legal way."



#33 Julius

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Posted 20 August 2014 - 05:12 AM

So what would Al Swearengen say?

 

"You can't cut the throat of every cocksucker whose character it would improve."

 

"I got a healthy operation here, and I didn't build it brooding on the right and wrong of things. And I do not need the Pinkertons descending like locusts."

 

"Ever wonder if you expressed yourself more directly Merrick, you might fucking weigh less?"



#34 deadheadskier

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Posted 20 August 2014 - 05:17 AM

I live in a small town on the New Hampshire seacoast.  I don't worry at all about the police and or riots.  

 

There has been some unfortunate incidences in recent years in neighboring communities.  The chief of police the next town over was shot and killed during an armed stand off with a steroid raged drug dealer.  4 other cops got shot during the standoff including one from our town who was on the county's joint drug task force.  

 

This year another cop was shot and killed during a standoff prior to the criminal blowing up his house. 

 

In another neighboring town, three cops were recently fired and face charges for excessive use of force towards a drunk kid.  The whole scene was caught on camera in the police station.

 

But overall, I don't live in a "police state" kind of place.  If I did, I might not choose to live here if I could avoid it.  

 

I'm very lucky.  I live in one of the safest places in America; if not the world.  



#35 Joker

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Posted 20 August 2014 - 11:09 AM

Fucking pigs deserve to die!!!



#36 TakeAStepBack

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Posted 20 August 2014 - 05:59 PM

From what I understand, the information is coming out that the officer was in fact, in an altercation with Brown resulting in an orbital blowout fracture of the eye.



#37 concert andy

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Posted 20 August 2014 - 07:36 PM

Ooofa!

 

http://www.cnn.com/2....html?hpt=hp_t1

 

In a single column, a veteran police officer has catapulted himself into the national debate over the death of unarmed teen Michael Brown in Ferguson, Missouri.
 
"I'm a cop. If you don't want to get hurt, don't challenge me," the Washington Post headline blares. The piece was written by Sunil Dutta, a 17-year veteran of the Los Angeles Police Department.
 
"Even though it might sound harsh and impolitic, here is the bottom line: if you don't want to get shot, tased, pepper-sprayed, struck with a baton or thrown to the ground, just do what I tell you," he wrote.
 
utta cautions against arguing, insulting, or screaming at officers, "and don't even think of aggressively walking towards me. Most field stops are complete in minutes. How difficult is it to cooperate for that long?"
 
If you believe an officer is violating your rights or bullying you, Dutta says, don't challenge him then -- save that for lodging a complaint later. "Do what the officer tells you to and it will end safely for both of you."
 
Response:
 
"The outrageous thing is not that he says it. The outrageous thing is that we accept it," writes Ken White of the blog Popehat, which tracks American legal issues.

 

 

"Do we have a justice system? By name, yes. Is it effective in deterring cops from abusing citizens or punishing them when they do? No... If you hope the cop will be charged criminally for misbehavior, you're going to be waiting a very long time for no result."

 

 

Dutta's message is to "shut up and take it, because even the slightest bit of intransigence is grounds for the cops to unleash a world of hurt," writes Benjamin Freed of the Washingtonian.

 

 

And it continues...



#38 Joker

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Posted 20 August 2014 - 08:23 PM

Sad that there's a lot of other good stuff in there that could help people better understand where most cops are coming from that will end up being ignored because of the small part you posted.



#39 Depends

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Posted 20 August 2014 - 08:39 PM

So this guy advocates to lie back and enjoy, then make a complaint afterwards.  

Let the officer violate any law they want.  

Like this:

 

or this:

http://www.nydailyne...ticle-1.1492280

 

or this:

http://www.myfoxtamp...empted-cover-up

 

 

Or this:

 

 

What happens when it isn't on video?  'Cause cops NEVER stick together, never lie about what happened.  So it would come down to your word against a couple of cops.  Who wins there?



#40 TakeAStepBack

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Posted 20 August 2014 - 09:06 PM

From what I understand, the information is coming out that the officer was in fact, in an altercation with Brown resulting in an orbital blowout fracture of the eye.

 

I guess it's a bit late now to try and hash out the facts. Reminds me of the OS crowd. Everyone was diving head first into an empty pool like lemmings.

 

:dunno:



#41 concert andy

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Posted 20 August 2014 - 09:17 PM

Sad that there's a lot of other good stuff in there that could help people better understand where most cops are coming from that will end up being ignored because of the small part you posted.


I agree. Not all cops have this attitude, but the ones that do ruin it for all.

I only posted it because of the uproar about the comments themselves. How the comments were meant to help, but they were not received that way. One has to be very careful with an opinion on delicate matters especially race. Sometimes the best of intentions are not always met with open arms.





I am very happy to hear that Philadelphia police are implementing a program where all officers will where a video camera. Now there will be no police said / criminal said / protester said.

http://philadelphia....-video-cameras/

#42 Jam Fan

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Posted 21 August 2014 - 11:51 AM

 

 

seems like the Officer who identified himself as GoFuckYourself  is trying to start a riot when he says "I'm going to fucking kill you" and points his AR at protesters



#43 concert andy

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Posted 21 August 2014 - 12:38 PM

Sad that there's a lot of other good stuff in there that could help people better understand where most cops are coming from that will end up being ignored because of the small part you posted.

 

 

There was a link to the original story.  Don't think anyone here reading this will change their opinion of cops because of the small portion of the article, that another media outlet decided was most news worthy.

 

Original story:

http://www.washingto...t-challenge-me/



#44 JBetty

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Posted 21 August 2014 - 02:05 PM

What a difference in cultures.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Conflict & Justice

Iceland grieves after police kill a man for the first time in its history

 

 

RTR23TP6.jpg?itok=AGTkEQc7

Credit: Ints Kalnins/Reuters

An Icelandic police officer stands guard at a peaceful protest near Iceland's Parliament house in Reykjavik.

It was an unprecedented headline in Iceland this week — a man shot to death by police. 

"The nation was in shock. This does not happen in our country," said Thora Arnorsdottir, news editor at RUV, the Icelandic National Broadcasting Service. 

She was referring to a 59-year old man who was shot by police on Monday. The man, who started shooting at police when they entered his building, had a history of mental illness. 

It's the first time someone has been killed by armed police in Iceland since it became an independent republic in 1944. Police don't even carry weapons, usually. Violent crime in Iceland is almost non-existent.

"The nation does not want its police force to carry weapons because it's dangerous, it's threatening," Arnorsdottir says. "It's a part of the culture. Guns are used to go hunting as a sport, but you never see a gun."

In fact, Iceland isn't anti-gun. In terms of per-capita gun ownership, Iceland ranks 15th in the world. Still, this incident was so rare that neighbors of the man shot were comparing the shooting to a scene from an American film. 

The Icelandic police department said officers involved will go through grief counseling. And the police department has already apologized to the family of the man who died — though not necessarily because they did anything wrong.

"I think it's respectful," Arnorsdottir says, "because no one wants to take another person's life. "

There are still a number of questions to be answered, including why police didn't first try to negotiate with man before entering his building.

"A part of the great thing of living in this country is that you can enter parliament and the only thing they ask you to do is to turn off your cellphone, so you don't disturb the parliamentarians while they're talking. We do not have armed guards following our prime minister or president. That's a part of the great thing of living in a peaceful society. We do not want to change that. "

Update, August 20, 2014: We checked back in with the Icelandic Police to get an update on this shooting in December. The superintendent says the police have not used firearms since.



#45 JBetty

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Posted 21 August 2014 - 02:22 PM

 

Sad that there's a lot of other good stuff in there that could help people better understand where most cops are coming from that will end up being ignored because of the small part you posted.

 

 

There was a link to the original story.  Don't think anyone here reading this will change their opinion of cops because of the small portion of the article, that another media outlet decided was most news worthy.

 

Original story:

http://www.washingto...t-challenge-me/

 

 

 

 

Unfortunately, Dutta's attitude is all too pervasive these days.

 

 

"If you have the attitude that you are owed deference and instant obedience by the people around you, and that you are justified in using violence against them if they don't comply, we already have a problem. That's especially true if official institutions back you up, which they do.

If you really think that everybody else should "just do what I tell you," you're wearing the wrong uniform in the wrong country. And if you really can't function with some give and take—a few nasty names, a little argument—of the sort that people in all sorts of jobs put up with every damned day, do us all a favor: quit."



#46 Depends

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Posted 21 August 2014 - 02:43 PM

I don't understand the technical aspects of police wearing video cameras.

There are so many issues.  How long do they keep the data, and at what cost?  Even a small city's police force would have tons of data to be stored.  A small city, like Trenton NJ might have what, 500 police?  Times 8 hours of video?   That is a lot of storage.  How long do you keep the mundane stuff?  Someone might make a complaint months after an incident happens.  

What about chain of custody?  Who keeps the data?  Is it stored in the cloud, or local servers?

It just doesn't seem practical.  



#47 concert andy

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Posted 21 August 2014 - 03:44 PM

I don't understand the technical aspects of police wearing video cameras.

There are so many issues.  How long do they keep the data, and at what cost?  Even a small city's police force would have tons of data to be stored.  A small city, like Trenton NJ might have what, 500 police?  Times 8 hours of video?   That is a lot of storage.  How long do you keep the mundane stuff?  Someone might make a complaint months after an incident happens.  

What about chain of custody?  Who keeps the data?  Is it stored in the cloud, or local servers?

It just doesn't seem practical.  

 

While all good points.

 

I think you are missing the bigger picture.  

 

Think about how much money Philly pays out to citizens who sue the city?  The thought (I think) is to pay for this with the money they will save in lawsuits.

 

 

Civil-rights lawsuits against police spiked in 2013

 

http://articles.phil...lice-department



#48 JBetty

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Posted 21 August 2014 - 03:49 PM

Maybe they don't need to save all the data.

Maybe they don't need to actually record everything.

Maybe just wearing the cameras while not knowing what will and will not be saved, will be enough to keep everyone on their best behavior.   :dunno:



#49 Depends

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Posted 21 August 2014 - 04:28 PM

Philadelphia has approx 6600 police officers.

Top of my head costs for equipment/administration/storage/ etc would be $1000 per officer.

Let's say that 50% of the law suits could be avoided, or thrown out because of evidence gained from the officer's camera.

Spend $6.6MM to save $7MM?

Say 75% of the lawsuits could be avoided

Spend $6.6MM to save $10.5MM?  Maybe, but seems like a long shot.



#50 china cat

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Posted 21 August 2014 - 06:00 PM

as a fellow boardie posted this on fb (he can take credit for words as he sees fit, or ask me to remove comments as well)

 

 It's not the total number of officers on the force that need a camera, it;s the total number officers at work on any given shift.

 

"The magnification of cost numbers is redonkulous. This is so commonly done in the media and by politicians I can't really fault anyone for using it, but it's silly. If I came up with a way to feed people on just $2 per day...that's SIX HUNDRED MILLION DOLLARS...PER DAY!!! Oh MY!!

The measure is if it's worth the cost.

The annual budget of the Boston Police Department is ≈ 240 million. The real cost is more like $900 per unit. These are not cheapo cameras and they have special features. Even using the full 2,144 officers number (just to have spares, etc) that cost is 2 Million dollars. That's less than 1% of the annual budget -- TO OUTFIT THE ENTIRE DEPARTMENT TWICE OVER.

If the devices last 3 years, that's 0.2% of their annual budget.

The news story I saw about these (I think it was on 60 Minutes some months back) the devices can ONLY record. At the end of the shift the officer places it in a special receptacle. The video is downloaded to a server -- which could easily be locked and/or offsite -- and managed by an Internal Affairs Division or, better yet, a non-police watchdog group.

Officers that didn't wear their camera, had it's lens obscured, or didn't have enough recorded-video time to match their shift time could be re-trained, disciplined, and eventually fired.

Yes, there will always be ways around things. But if the officer is making a habit of it, he or she should be gone quickly. If they don't make a habit of it but then suddenly one day, the day of a controversial action on their part, the device is blocked, forgotten, not on, etc .... that will be fairly damning.

We endow these people with special privileges and powers while on duty.
We should hold them to a higher standard while on duty.
"

 

he went on to point out: "Plus, ya know, how much do you think all this equipment costs??"

 

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