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Bill O'Reilly's Stupid Question: Downside to Women in Office?


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#1 Jabadoodle

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Posted 01 May 2014 - 10:53 AM

On February 26th of this year Bill O'Reilly asked two women commentators if there isn't "some downside to having a woman president?" The clip of that (posted below) is pretty funny as the faux smiles fade from the commentators faces to be replaced by genuine looks of "Huh??" and "WTF??"

And yet...yesterday I was was watching a documentary about women in the US Senate. It got me thinking about the strengths that women bring to high office, especially the senate and house. It also got me wondering if there were any weaknesses; and also about what strengths and weaknesses men may bring to these offices.

Of course this is generalizing, but are there traits more predominant in either gender that are particularly good or bad for high office? 

What strengths do women bring that men tend not to? What weaknesses?
What strengths do men bring that women tend not to? What weaknesses?


 



#2 Jabadoodle

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Posted 01 May 2014 - 10:53 AM



#3 Jabadoodle

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Posted 01 May 2014 - 10:56 AM

I want to be clear what I'm not talking about too...
* I'm not talking about should there be an equal representation of women to make things fair.
* I'm not talking about will women be more in-tune with some issues / "women's" issues.


 



#4 china cat

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Posted 01 May 2014 - 11:14 AM

Not answering the question just offering this documentary - the majority of the doc focuses on women in politics.

 

http://www.filmsfora...representation/



#5 china cat

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Posted 01 May 2014 - 11:18 AM

John. Gotta love him

 

http://thedailyshow....belittled-women



#6 china cat

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Posted 01 May 2014 - 12:47 PM

G, since we're having a pm about this, I'll just add this here:

 

I don't really like "men versus women" anything - it perpetuate dichotomies. Both sexes have the potential for (and ability to) develop qualities needed for leadership positions.

 

What qualities are better suited for those interested in and those assuming leadership positions (integrity, honesty, clear/effective/appropriate communication skills, relationship building, collaboration, conflict resolution, goal setting/vision, critical thinking, expertise in subject matter, emotional stability, ability to consider constructive criticism, adaptability, listening skills, self-awareness, empathy...). Does one sex exhibit these qualities more so over the other? If so, why? And, how can we cultivate these qualities in both men and women?

 



#7 Jabadoodle

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Posted 01 May 2014 - 12:59 PM

 

 

I don't really like "men versus women" anything - it perpetuate dichotomies. Both sexes have the potential for (and ability to) develop qualities needed for leadership positions.

 

 

I hear you. Question though:

* Do you feel that, in general, there are non-physical differences between men and women?

To put that in context a little: Most people would say that children under some age aren't as emotionally equiped to handle some things as most adults. That's not to say that every child isn't or that every adult is. But we (most of us anyway) believe that. We make laws based on it. ~ One might also say that lawyers or stockbrokers tend to have some traits that farmers or musicians don't tend to have. Etc. ~ Generalizing is something we have to do. 

* Are women generally better at keeping in touch with friends? 
* Are women generally more empathetic?
* Are men generally more aggressive or violent? (As a recent documentary seemed to claim)
* Are men generally better at spacial thinking?

Etc...

 


 



#8 concert andy

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Posted 01 May 2014 - 05:14 PM

I hear you. Question though:

* Do you feel that, in general, there are non-physical differences between men and women?

 

* Are women generally better at keeping in touch with friends? 

* Are women generally more empathetic?

* Are men generally more aggressive or violent? (As a recent documentary seemed to claim)

 

* Are men generally better at spacial thinking?

 

 

Arent these questions perpetuating the dichotomies mentioned by China?



#9 concert andy

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Posted 01 May 2014 - 05:19 PM

 

G, since we're having a pm about this, I'll just add this here:

 

I don't really like "men versus women" anything - it perpetuate dichotomies. Both sexes have the potential for (and ability to) develop qualities needed for leadership positions.

 

What qualities are better suited for those interested in and those assuming leadership positions (integrity, honesty, clear/effective/appropriate communication skills, relationship building, collaboration, conflict resolution, goal setting/vision, critical thinking, expertise in subject matter, emotional stability, ability to consider constructive criticism, adaptability, listening skills, self-awareness, empathy...). Does one sex exhibit these qualities more so over the other? If so, why? And, how can we cultivate these qualities in both men and women?

 

 

 

This looks like a data analysis question or a research paper topic.  Would be interested in those findings.



#10 Jabadoodle

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Posted 01 May 2014 - 06:40 PM

Arent these questions perpetuating the dichotomies mentioned by China?

Sure. Just 'cause china doesn't like 'em doesn't mean they aren't valid questions ;)



#11 OpusX

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Posted 01 May 2014 - 06:54 PM

I guess the downside, although I may argue upside, is the ramifications of our image abroad. If we take man out, and replace the power with a woman, we take the masculinity out and replace it with feminine. Other countries may look at us as weaker, because their culture looks down to women as inferior. However, I disagree totally. I think having a woman commander and chief has great advantages for the same reasons. China, drafts a ton of women in their military. They are all trained to fight the front lines. It's believed that when these women engage the enemy, they will have a psychological advantage. An enemy will have remorse for harming a woman fighter. Also, I believe a woman commander and chief would give the US a powerful edge, because no one wants to "lose to a girl." If the US is tested, and our response is to meet it with an iron fist, it'll be the opposing country's image that's tarnished.



#12 china cat

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Posted 01 May 2014 - 07:14 PM

Sure. Just 'cause china doesn't like 'em doesn't mean they aren't valid questions ;)

 

:lol:



#13 china cat

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Posted 01 May 2014 - 08:11 PM

I guess the downside, although I may argue upside, is the ramifications of our image abroad. If we take man out, and replace the power with a woman, we take the masculinity out and replace it with feminine. Other countries may look at us as weaker, because their culture looks down to women as inferior. However, I disagree totally. I think having a woman commander and chief has great advantages for the same reasons. China, drafts a ton of women in their military. They are all trained to fight the front lines. It's believed that when these women engage the enemy, they will have a psychological advantage. An enemy will have remorse for harming a woman fighter. Also, I believe a woman commander and chief would give the US a powerful edge, because no one wants to "lose to a girl." If the US is tested, and our response is to meet it with an iron fist, it'll be the opposing country's image that's tarnished.

 

I think many countries don't like us and/or fear us because we're imperialist bullies. A female president might aid our image abroad?

 

Who knows.

 

 

Are differences between men and women as pronounced as we believe them to be or are common stereotypes exacerbating what are really just a few small differences?

 

If we put together an exhaustive list of personality types, characteristics, behaviors, and abilities we would find a range of both men and women competent and lacking in each.

 

Interestingly, some studies have shown male infants to be much needier than female infants, which contradicts the stereotype of the rugged less emotional male. For example, the conclusion drawn in this video is that boys are more emotionally needy (addressed in the first 15 minutes of this documentary: http://digital.films.com/play/KB5UCU side note, this could be a false conclusion, the infant boys reactions could instead signal that boys need more stimulation than infant girls, thus boys get antsy when they don't receive stimulation. Does that make them "emotionally needy?" not sure.)

 

And what differences there are, are they attributable to biological sex or gender construction? I don't know. Gender straight-jacketing occurs at such earlier ages, that I'm not sure we'll ever be able to discern.

 

Some research within the business world seems to conclude that women as more competent in leadership skills (but again this may be due to environmental factors i.e. the need to "prove" themselves http://blogs.hbr.org...rship-women-do/ and http://www.degroote....sions-than-men/

 

Side note: here's a list of female leaders from around the world - would be interesting to see if we could identify strengths and weakness of their leadership ability, and compare them to those of men http://www.filibuste...ale-leaders.php

 

kinda rambling here - I'm not taking a position and I have no real conclusions to offer



#14 china cat

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Posted 01 May 2014 - 08:24 PM

I hear you. Question though:

* Do you feel that, in general, there are non-physical differences between men and women?

 

non-physical? Do you mean Physical/physiological differences? If so, of course. We have different hormones, parts, cycles, size and strength... EDIT: OH, just figured out what you meant here, G. I consider hormones, brain size, etc. part of "physical"

 

also http://www.psycholog...d-womens-brains

To put that in context a little: Most people would say that children under some age aren't as emotionally equiped to handle some things as most adults. That's not to say that every child isn't or that every adult is. But we (most of us anyway) believe that. We make laws based on it. ~ One might also say that lawyers or stockbrokers tend to have some traits that farmers or musicians don't tend to have. Etc. ~ Generalizing is something we have to do. 

* Are women generally better at keeping in touch with friends?  not sure

 

* Are women generally more empathetic? I know lots of empathetic men, and, girls can be pretty vicious so I'm not sure. It's surely the stereotype, just not sure how accurate it is

 

* Are men generally more aggressive or violent? (As a recent documentary seemed to claim) seem to be and testosterone may well play a roll, but there is lots of evidence that parents talk more about anger with boys all the while giving them little to no cultural space to talk about more vulnerable feelings, which may lead them to funnel a range of emotions into the one pathway we accept AND promote among men - physical violence. At the same time we shun girls from acting out. 

 

* Are men generally better at spacial thinking? seem to be, and while that could be because they were hunters (evolution) it might also be because of the difference in toys that girls and boys are given, and the ways in which they're raised/educated (nurture). Look at the research that shows that with training, girls spatial abilities are equal to that of boys http://www.parenting...telligence.html

 

the brain is malleable and develops in accord with upbringing - what happens in our earlier years, especially the first two years of life, can irrevocably alter our language skills, social skills, personalities, problem solving skills... we're never going to isolate nature from nurture - nurture influences our nature--they are interwoven in ways far too complex to clearly differentiate--they don't differ, they work in tandem with each other.
Etc...

 

 



#15 concert andy

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Posted 01 May 2014 - 08:33 PM

I hear you. Question though:

* Do you feel that, in general, there are non-physical differences between men and women?

 

Hormones, see the 60 minutes story on Ambien and how men and women HAVE to take different doses because of hormonal imbalances in men and women.  They want to revisit all dosage studies.

To put that in context a little: Most people would say that children under some age aren't as emotionally equiped to handle some things as most adults. That's not to say that every child isn't or that every adult is. But we (most of us anyway) believe that. We make laws based on it. ~ One might also say that lawyers or stockbrokers tend to have some traits that farmers or musicians don't tend to have. Etc. ~ Generalizing is something we have to do. 

* Are women generally better at keeping in touch with friends? 

 

Probably, but the ladies around here do pretty well.

 

* Are women generally more empathetic?

 

This is a portrayed feeling skewing the perception.

 

* Are men generally more aggressive or violent? (As a recent documentary seemed to claim)

 

This is societal not in general.  This is a taught thing to an extent of course.  But we tell boys to man up, be a man, stop being a puss, etc..  But we never encourage girls fighting at any age.

 

Also testosterone.

 

 

* Are men generally better at spacial thinking?

 

No, I am a spacial thinker.  I get it from my mom.  Just because more men follow this career path leads to this perception.

Etc...

 

 



#16 OpusX

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Posted 01 May 2014 - 10:03 PM

Well, there is clearly a difference between the genders. I just don't think gender is the sole factor in determining who's right for the job, in terms of politics.



#17 Jabadoodle

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Posted 02 May 2014 - 02:13 PM

 

I don't really like "men versus women" anything - it perpetuate dichotomies. Both sexes have the potential for (and ability to) develop qualities needed for leadership positions.

 

 

Let me put this another way: Other than genitalia and other physical differences, is there any difference between men and women -- or are they the same?

[  ] There are differences
[  ] Nope. Other than from social conditioning they sexes are exactly the same.

 



#18 concert andy

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Posted 02 May 2014 - 03:41 PM

Let me put this another way: Other than genitalia and other physical differences, is there any difference between men and women -- or are they the same?

[  ] There are differences
[  ] Nope. Other than from social conditioning they sexes are exactly the same.

 

 

Although i think this is too simplistic a view.  That is what makes Humans interesting.  All of us do not fit into a certain category.  We may overlap, we may be an outlier, or we may fit perfect into a category.