Jump to content



Photo
- - - - -

'Real Sports': Kids and Guns


  • Please log in to reply
17 replies to this topic

#1 concert andy

concert andy
  • VibeTribe
  • 11,436 posts
  • LocationPhilly

Posted 26 February 2014 - 07:47 PM

Did anyone see this last night on HBO?

 

Basically they focus on on how the gun companies are looking to expand their business and are targeting young people, "to lock them up as future gun purchasers early." (was the general point)  They even showed a mini rifle that is being sold all over now a days, even in different colors (pink, blue, green, etc...).  Forgot the name but it was small and meant for pre teens.

 

The craziest part was when they had a 13 year old actor attempting to buy a case of beer, cigs, porn mags, and lotto tickets to not avail. But he waltzes into a gun show and buys a rifle with cash no problems.

 

Video of 13 year old kid trying to buy Smokes, beer, porn etc...  Then buys a gun.

http://www.usatoday....-kids-and-guns/

 

 

I will admit some of it was propaganda, like the point that this could lead to the next Adam Lanza (since Lanza was trained and was very proficient with guns), and some of it was pointing out that suicide rates of kids who own guns increases substantially.   The latter point is what hit home for me.  

 

 

 

Just to be fair, they did have a guy on there who was all about giving guns to kids, and how hunting can teach you all the life lessons boasted by other sports.

 

 



#2 MeOmYo

MeOmYo
  • VibeTribe
  • 7,534 posts

Posted 26 February 2014 - 08:12 PM

gun manufacturers have been making guns intended for young people forever.  they're called youth models and have shorter stocks to fit a smaller build.

 

the reason the child easily bought a rifle at a gun show was because it was legal.

 

at the risk of sounding heartless, I'd say the reason suicide rates increase in kids who own guns is because guns are very very effective at killing and I would dare say are far more successful at it than those that don't have a gun.

 

In addition to that point, kids can be fucking mean to each other and in today's keeping up with the Jones' culture it can be very very hard emotionally for a child.  I would speculate that unfortunately the thought of suicide at one time or another and in one form or another happens to the majority of children as they learn/process their way through childhood.



#3 concert andy

concert andy
  • VibeTribe
  • 11,436 posts
  • LocationPhilly

Posted 26 February 2014 - 08:18 PM

gun manufacturers have been making guns intended for young people forever.  they're called youth models and have shorter stocks to fit a smaller build.

 

the reason the child easily bought a rifle at a gun show was because it was legal.

 

 

It was legal for teens to buy guns in the state where they had the kid buy one.  Not all states are legal for minors to purchase guns though.

 

Also (I believe), kids can only own guns if they are for hunting (in the states were they can purchase). 

 

 

at the risk of sounding heartless, I'd say the reason suicide rates increase in kids who own guns is because guns are very very effective at killing and I would dare say are far more successful at it than those that don't have a gun.

 

No, you are correct.

 

In addition to that point, kids can be fucking mean to each other and in today's keeping up with the Jones' culture it can be very very hard emotionally for a child.  I would speculate that unfortunately the thought of suicide at one time or another and in one form or another happens to the majority of children as they learn/process their way through childhood.

 

So is this enough of a reason to raise the age limit on purchasing guns?



#4 TakeAStepBack

TakeAStepBack
  • VibeTribe
  • 18,748 posts

Posted 26 February 2014 - 08:19 PM

Ukraiine is drafting a seconf A. into their new constitution. because they learned what happens when govt. disarms its population and then becomes tyrannical. An armed populationis a polite one, as well as a respected one.

 

ANd, youth model guns have been around forever. I owned them.



#5 MeOmYo

MeOmYo
  • VibeTribe
  • 7,534 posts

Posted 26 February 2014 - 08:27 PM


 

 

So is this enough of a reason to raise the age limit on purchasing guns?

 

I'm not sure where it's legal for a 13 year old to buy a firearm but in NY you have to be 18 (21 for a pistol).  I'm A OK with that.



#6 concert andy

concert andy
  • VibeTribe
  • 11,436 posts
  • LocationPhilly

Posted 26 February 2014 - 08:40 PM

Ukraiine is drafting a seconf A. into their new constitution. because they learned what happens when govt. disarms its population and then becomes tyrannical. An armed populationis a polite one, as well as a respected one.

 

Kind of outside the scope of the thread but I get your point.

 

ANd, youth model guns have been around forever. I owned them.

 

Probably, but the story focuses on how the gun industry is marketing to kids, and how the number of kids who own guns is on the rise.

 

Not disputing they have been around forever, but again story focuses on this aspect of the gun industry.

 

I am not trying to get into the semantics or specifics of the overall gun laws.  I am trying to keep this focused on people under the age of 18, although this story focused on 14 and younger.



#7 concert andy

concert andy
  • VibeTribe
  • 11,436 posts
  • LocationPhilly

Posted 26 February 2014 - 08:40 PM

I'm not sure where it's legal for a 13 year old to buy a firearm but in NY you have to be 18 (21 for a pistol).  I'm A OK with that.

 

Trying to find which states do allow this...



#8 concert andy

concert andy
  • VibeTribe
  • 11,436 posts
  • LocationPhilly

Posted 26 February 2014 - 08:45 PM

Looks like only the following states have a law in place to limit the age of a person who can buy a gun, they are...

 

Arizona, Minnesota, New York, Virginia.  (source http://en.wikipedia....States_by_state)

 

I could be wrong but seems like 46 other states you can buy a gun at any age.  (although the caveat being, a hunting gun, not a hand gun).



#9 MeOmYo

MeOmYo
  • VibeTribe
  • 7,534 posts

Posted 26 February 2014 - 08:54 PM

I'm not sure how you're getting those 4 states from the wiki site?

 

for example, I can't see where a 13 year old would be allowed to purchase a firearm in Montana from that



#10 concert andy

concert andy
  • VibeTribe
  • 11,436 posts
  • LocationPhilly

Posted 26 February 2014 - 08:58 PM

I searched the page for " Age ".

 

Arizona:  On second look, I do not see any age limit (which I did think this was a weird on to be on this list at first glance).  You have to be over 21 to carry a concealed weapon.  My confusion.

 

 

Minn:

 

Persons under the age of 21 prohibited from purchasing handguns. Persons 18 and older may purchase "assault weapons" with a permit to purchase (or permit to carry for persons 21 and older).

 

NY:

 

...The minimum age to be issued a handgun license is 21 unless you are a former or current member of the armed forces or law enforcement.

 

Virginia:

 

*Proof of age (18+ for long arms, 21+ for pistols) and proof of citizenship (or permanent residence license) are required for the purchase of "assault weapons". "Assault weapons" are defined as a semi-automatic, centerfire, firearm equipped with a folding/adjustable stock, or equipped at the time with a magazine capable of holding 20+ rounds, or capable of accommodating a silencer/suppressor.[21]

 

 

 

 

This could be a very poor method, but I could confirm 3 of 4 them after.



#11 MeOmYo

MeOmYo
  • VibeTribe
  • 7,534 posts

Posted 26 February 2014 - 09:00 PM

I see.  I think it's a matter of incomplete information.



#12 concert andy

concert andy
  • VibeTribe
  • 11,436 posts
  • LocationPhilly

Posted 26 February 2014 - 09:03 PM

I see.  I think it's a matter of incomplete information.

 

That is correct (incomplete), as I just found that California is the same.

 

  1. What is the minimum legal age to purchase a firearm in California?
    1. 18 years of age for rifles or shotguns
    2. 21 years of age for handguns, lower receivers* and “pistol-grip only” shotguns*.

 

This seems to be pretty standard, but which states have no limit, I have no idea.



#13 MeOmYo

MeOmYo
  • VibeTribe
  • 7,534 posts

Posted 26 February 2014 - 09:07 PM

Federal law prohibits firearms dealers from selling or delivering a shotgun or rifle, or ammunition for a shotgun or rifle, to any person the dealer knows or has reasonable cause to believe is under the age of 18.1 Federal law provides no age limitations with respect to the sale of a long gun or long gun ammunition by an unlicensed person.

Dealers are prohibited from selling or delivering firearms other than shotguns or rifles (e.g., handguns) or ammunition for those firearms to any person the dealer knows or has reasonable cause to believe is under the age of 21.2 Unlicensed persons may not sell, deliver or otherwise transfer a handgun or handgun ammunition to any person the transferor knows or has reasonable cause to believe is under the age of 18.3 Exceptions are provided for temporary transfers made for specified activities, including employment, ranching, farming, target practice and hunting.4

Federal law prohibits, with certain exceptions, the possession of a handgun or handgun ammunition by any person under the age of 18.5

Federal law provides no minimum age for the possession of long guns or long gun ammunition.

 

 

http://smartgunlaws....rchase-possess/



#14 concert andy

concert andy
  • VibeTribe
  • 11,436 posts
  • LocationPhilly

Posted 26 February 2014 - 09:10 PM

Federal law prohibits firearms dealers from selling or delivering a shotgun or rifle, or ammunition for a shotgun or rifle, to any person the dealer knows or has reasonable cause to believe is under the age of 18. Federal law provides no age limitations with respect to the sale of a long gun or long gun ammunition by an unlicensed person.

Dealers are prohibited from selling or delivering firearms other than shotguns or rifles (e.g., handguns) or ammunition for those firearms to any person the dealer knows or has reasonable cause to believe is under the age of 21.2 Unlicensed persons may not sell, deliver or otherwise transfer a handgun or handgun ammunition to any person the transferor knows or has reasonable cause to believe is under the age of 18.3 Exceptions are provided for temporary transfers made for specified activities, including employment, ranching, farming, target practice and hunting.4

Federal law prohibits, with certain exceptions, the possession of a handgun or handgun ammunition by any person under the age of 18.5

 

I did see this about federal laws...

 

18 for long guns, 21 for handguns and NFA regulated items. That's federal law, and applies to every state and territory of the United States.

 

Now, how did that 13 year old buy a gun if this a federal law?

 

 

 

Federal law provides no minimum age for the possession of long guns or long gun ammunition.

 

 

http://smartgunlaws....rchase-possess/

 

 

This is where I am confused.  If it is a federal law to not sell long guns to anyone under 18, then how did this kid buy one at a gun show?

 

 

I will admit I am no authority on gun laws, and thank you guys for schooling me in this field.



#15 MeOmYo

MeOmYo
  • VibeTribe
  • 7,534 posts

Posted 26 February 2014 - 09:19 PM

well, a couple things that I can think of:

 

1.  In states that do not require the sale/transfer of a firearm through an FFL (federal firearms license) in a person to person sale may not be required to follow the 18 & 21 age restriction.  Although the person selling the gun may be considered a "dealer" under the federal law.  I'm not sure what the federal law deems as a "dealer".  The law only speaks to handguns in regards to an unlicensed seller.

 

2.  It was done illegally and the film reported inaccurate information.



#16 concert andy

concert andy
  • VibeTribe
  • 11,436 posts
  • LocationPhilly

Posted 26 February 2014 - 09:26 PM

well, a couple things that I can think of:

 

1.  In states that do not require the sale/transfer of a firearm through an FFL (federal firearms license) in a person to person sale may not be required to follow the 18 & 21 age restriction.  Although the person selling the gun may be considered a "dealer" under the federal law.  I'm not sure what the federal law deems as a "dealer".  The law only speaks to handguns in regards to an unlicensed seller.

 

2.  It was done illegally and the film reported inaccurate information.

 

 

I am surprised HBO would not present accurate information, as they are not trying to get ratings in the same way news networks do.  

 

 

Did you watch the clip I posted?  At the 1:17 mark the 13 year old purchases a rifle.  Interesting considering the fed law.

 

Here it is again:

http://www.usatoday....-kids-and-guns/



#17 MeOmYo

MeOmYo
  • VibeTribe
  • 7,534 posts

Posted 26 February 2014 - 09:30 PM

I did watch it



#18 concert andy

concert andy
  • VibeTribe
  • 11,436 posts
  • LocationPhilly

Posted 26 February 2014 - 09:46 PM

Was the gun purchased legally or illegally?

 

HBO shows it as being purchased legally adding that it was legal in this state (they did not mention which state).

 

I watched the video again and could not find any mentions or accidental views of something to give away the town or state.

 

I did see Blue Bell Ice Cream, seems to be a texas company, but that is not definitive in anyway.