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Sobriety and The Self


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#101 china cat

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Posted 16 November 2013 - 02:24 AM

weekend #2

 

went to dinner with Tim. Always have a glass of wine. Kinda pouted about not having any tonight. Just had a talk with Tim about it.

 

I find this whole experiment quite interesting.



#102 Jabadoodle

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Posted 16 November 2013 - 02:43 PM

When in a social situation, bring up topics in which you have confidence rather than hoping to come up with a witty reply to someone else's topic.



In the situation I told about, I was very confident with this person -- we have been friends for years and have talked about all sorts of things in depth both sober & not. We were already talking about topics that I had confidence in (and having fun with it); it was not me sitting and hoping to come up with a witty reply. This thing about a witty reply was me giving one very specific and very simple example; what I'm really talking about is larger and more meaningful that that. 

There seems to be a part of me, a way of being, a mode of communication, a particular type of flow, that happens on various substances that does not happen when not on them. That is not to negate the parts of me, the ways of being, the modes of communication, the types of flow that happen sans substance. It's asking: Knowing that there are downsides to almost every substance, can I (or you) access those upsides without actually having to take the substance, and so avoid the downsides. If so (or even partially so) how?

Why do any of you drink or whatever?



 



#103 china cat

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Posted 16 November 2013 - 03:03 PM


In the situation I told about, I was very confident with this person -- we have been friends for years and have talked about all sorts of things in depth both sober & not. We were already talking about topics that I had confidence in (and having fun with it); it was not me sitting and hoping to come up with a witty reply. This thing about a witty reply was me giving one very specific and very simple example; what I'm really talking about is larger and more meaningful that that. 

There seems to be a part of me, a way of being, a mode of communication, a particular type of flow, that happens on various substances that does not happen when not on them. That is not to negate the parts of me, the ways of being, the modes of communication, the types of flow that happen sans substance. It's asking: Knowing that there are downsides to almost every substance, can I (or you) access those upsides without actually having to take the substance, and so avoid the downsides. If so (or even partially so) how?

Why do any of you drink or whatever?

 

This is a question, I too, am interested to see answered.

 

I think it's safe to say people responding in this thread do not consider themselves addicts (thus, don't feel they "need" substances) yet still partake in them.

 

G's been honest about his reasons, what are everyone else's reasons?

 

I think G has identified, quite accurately, why people drink. 

 

Are we using it as a crutch, a lubricant... a way to let loose and open parts of ourselves that aren't necessarily accessible without alcohol. if so is there anything wrong with that? Are there other ways to dissolve the filters that may inhibit our "flow"  and increase our experience, outside of booze? (if so, specifics of how to do so please)



#104 TEO

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Posted 16 November 2013 - 05:26 PM

Why do any of you drink or whatever?

 

To enhance a good time or a shift in perspective/perception.

 

I make a conscious choice to be honest if I saw myself drinking or whatever to avoid life.  Nowadays I check in with myself as to motive first before making a choice.



#105 china cat

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Posted 16 November 2013 - 06:22 PM

To enhance a good time or a shift in perspective/perception.

 

I make a conscious choice to be honest if I saw myself drinking or whatever to avoid life.  Nowadays I check in with myself as to motive first before making a choice.

 

this is my reason as well, and upon honest reflection, never feel I am trying to mask pain or avoid life rather to let loose and have fun.



#106 Jabadoodle

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Posted 16 November 2013 - 07:08 PM

To enhance a good time or a shift in perspective/perception.

 

I make a conscious choice to be honest if I saw myself drinking or whatever to avoid life.  Nowadays I check in with myself as to motive first before making a choice.

 

In deference to rules, decorum, and strained language everywhere I'm just going to use the terms drink/drinking from here on out.

 

 

I don't do it to avoid life either. Well, that is if by "avoid life" you mean something like, "I can't stand that my papa beat me / I suck at life / I just lost my job / I'm afraid to talk to that girl / etc."  But that is not what I was talking about and not something mentioned at all before in this thread. So we've skipped right over the thing I was saying; and also maybe exposed that more was read into what I wrote than what I said.
 


Why do you need a drink to enhance anything? Why do you need a drink to change perspective? Your drinking is not changing anyone else or any other physical thing in your environment -- except through how you interact with them/it -- so it is only changing you.  That could be considered “avoiding life” in some way. But regardless of that, the question I’m asking is: Can you not access those modes of being without the drinking?



#107 hoagie

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Posted 16 November 2013 - 07:37 PM

This is a question, I too, am interested to see answered.

 

I think it's safe to say people responding in this thread do not consider themselves addicts (thus, don't feel they "need" substances) yet still partake in them.

 

G's been honest about his reasons, what are everyone else's reasons?

 

I think G has identified, quite accurately, why people drink. 

 

Are we using it as a crutch, a lubricant... a way to let loose and open parts of ourselves that aren't necessarily accessible without alcohol. if so is there anything wrong with that? Are there other ways to dissolve the filters that may inhibit our "flow"  and increase our experience, outside of booze? (if so, specifics of how to do so please)

 

in my opinion, humans use substances to change personalities.  Im a different guy when i puff, and im another different person when im drunk on alcohol.  It is not the sober me when I drop ac*d, and if partaking of fungus im another different personality.  Nothing more than that.



#108 china cat

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Posted 16 November 2013 - 07:46 PM

to the "avoiding life" comment: maybe some parts of this life are worth avoiding. what's so real about this reality anyway?

 

fake people, inauthentic conversations, advertisements that invite radical insecurity, b.s. social rules and expectations... much of "real life" is a constructed reality anyway, a lot of which I'd prefer to avoid. Avoiding personal pain through abusing substances is not what I'm talking about, I'm talking about taking a break from the larger dystopia we call American culture

 

maybe taking a break from that, losing some filters, and feelin a lil freer ain't such a bad thing



#109 hoagie

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Posted 16 November 2013 - 07:50 PM

In deference to rules, decorum, and strained language everywhere I'm just going to use the terms drink/drinking from here on out.

 

 

I don't do it to avoid life either. Well, that is if by "avoid life" you mean something like, "I can't stand that my papa beat me / I suck at life / I just lost my job / I'm afraid to talk to that girl / etc."  But that is not what I was talking about and not something mentioned at all before in this thread. So we've skipped right over the thing I was saying; and also maybe exposed that more was read into what I wrote than what I said.
 


Why do you need a drink to enhance anything? Why do you need a drink to change perspective? Your drinking is not changing anyone else or any other physical thing in your environment -- except through how you interact with them/it -- so it is only changing you.  That could be considered “avoiding life” in some way. But regardless of that, the question I’m asking is: Can you not access those modes of being without the drinking?

 

we are talking CHEMISTRY here Jaba.  The addition of certain chemicals into your body CHANGES your personality.  To be blunt, NO I do not think you can "access" the drunk you without drinking alcohol.  The drunk you is one of your very many personalities, and alcohol is that chemical key that awakens that side of you.  



#110 Ginger Snap

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Posted 16 November 2013 - 08:37 PM

 


#111 TEO

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Posted 16 November 2013 - 09:05 PM

Why do you need a drink to enhance anything? Why do you need a drink to change perspective? Your drinking is not changing anyone else or any other physical thing in your environment -- except through how you interact with them/it -- so it is only changing you.  That could be considered “avoiding life” in some way. But regardless of that, the question I’m asking is: Can you not access those modes of being without the drinking?

 

Yes and often do.  I am shy.  I do not like interacting with people, yet I can make a decision to not let whatever fear hold me back and interact similarly with or without a lubricant.



#112 TEO

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Posted 16 November 2013 - 09:09 PM

to the "avoiding life" comment: maybe some parts of this life are worth avoiding. what's so real about this reality anyway?

 

fake people, inauthentic conversations, advertisements that invite radical insecurity, b.s. social rules and expectations... much of "real life" is a constructed reality anyway, a lot of which I'd prefer to avoid. Avoiding personal pain through abusing substances is not what I'm talking about, I'm talking about taking a break from the larger dystopia we call American culture

 

maybe taking a break from that, losing some filters, and feelin a lil freer ain't such a bad thing

 

I don't think it is a bad thing.  However one should in my experience be able to develop this ability to adjust the filters without a substance.

Ever do a liver cleanse fast for 7 days?  Day 5, everything is so clear, senses are heightened, the world appears sharper, the mind freer...



#113 TEO

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Posted 16 November 2013 - 09:13 PM

we are talking CHEMISTRY here Jaba.  The addition of certain chemicals into your body CHANGES your personality.  To be blunt, NO I do not think you can "access" the drunk you without drinking alcohol.  The drunk you is one of your very many personalities, and alcohol is that chemical key that awakens that side of you.  

 

I have seen people who are not drunk (dumping their dinks when they think they are not being observed) act very drunk.

 

Are we not actors on the stage?



#114 china cat

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Posted 16 November 2013 - 10:46 PM

I have seen people who are not drunk (dumping their dinks when they think they are not being observed) act very drunk.

 

Are we not actors on the stage?

 

http://en.wikipedia....rgy_(sociology)



#115 Ginger Snap

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Posted 16 November 2013 - 11:33 PM

.



#116 In A Silent Way

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Posted 11 March 2014 - 12:41 AM

I have seen people who are not drunk (dumping their dinks when they think they are not being observed) act very drunk.

Are we not actors on the stage?

:shocked: Some are sicker than others.

#117 Sensei Miller

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Posted 19 June 2014 - 09:50 PM

For me, the short answer is that certain feelings/attitudes/characteristics can't be replicated.

But don't get me wrong. It's not to say that, for example, if alcohol makes you social then you can't find any other ways to be social. Rather, I mean that you can't find the exact way that alcohol makes you social in anything but alcohol.

Being sober, you may (probably will) develop a new, slightly different way of being more social.

How does it happen? It just happens. Put yourself in a situation enough times and you'll adapt.

To me there's no denying that many if not most (or even all) "recreational" substances have some level of therapeutic or beneficial value.

But yeah...this is a hard issue for people trying to come clean. My problem substance is booze. I never had real problems with anythings but booze and opiates (I haven't touched opiates in years). However, I feel that I need to be 100% sober if I make the choice to be sober.

This includes certain things that I consider to be almost sacred in nature. Things that most certainly offer experience/feelings that nothing else can offer.

I'm really bummed that it has come to a point where I have to put the whole lot behind me, but I fully acknowledge that I am trading it in for something that is overall healthier, more sustainable, and just as beautiful. It's just beautiful in a different way.

#118 Jabadoodle

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Posted 20 June 2014 - 09:45 AM


I'm really bummed that it has come to a point where I have to put the whole lot behind me, but I fully acknowledge that I am trading it in for something that is overall healthier, more sustainable, and just as beautiful. It's just beautiful in a different way.

 

Very well said, especially the part quoted. 

My own update: Still drinking. Much much less often but still to levels that most people don't. Still notice that, even after "practice", I don't (can't?) access some of that parts that make me really great (not just by my assessment) without a few drinks. Specifically, in conversations -- even with people I know very well -- I access (allow access) to parts of me that are much more interesting than when I don't. To be more correct, it's not even access but rather engagement. I wasn't distressed about it before but did want to explore what was happening with me.  

I



#119 sarah b.

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Posted 21 June 2014 - 11:21 PM

Some people's brains just don't have an off switch, when it comes to substance intake.

 

I deal with something slightly different, but I'll say this ... when I allow myself "full/untethered" access to the world, parts of me are excellent, but there's a part that knows I'm just not right, and I'm better off staying on my own leash.

 

It's kind of like being a helium balloon, and knowing that without that string of self-restraint, I'd wind up floating into (some good places, but also some very risky/scary ones). After spending enough time floating freely, I tend to keep me on a string by choice, 'cause I know I'm smoother, and able to function better, in general, if I keep the string handy.

 

I have made some serious sacrifices, but most of the time, I'd rather err on the side of caution. And when I don't, something happens and I remember I should.

 

your mileage may vary.