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Sobriety and The Self


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#51 hoagie

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 10:37 PM

 

 

Agreed. So my question from the start has been: What tips does anyone have for accessing the parts of your true self that many of us seem not able to access except (or to an extent or sometimes in some situations) only via substances?


 


 

 

The thing it seems you arent "getting" or accepting is that the drunk you, the witty fun guy who you arent when you are sober, is a different consciousness than the sober, awake, operating "you".  I believe it is like two different personalities.  No matter how funny I think you are, I cant try to "be" you...it wouldn't really work.  I can only be me!

 

The answer was already given to you.  PATIENCE is how you can adjust to this sober you.  You may find, after living sober for awhile, that you WILL become more witty, fun, or whatever.  

 

Personally,  being drunk is not very fun for me.  I get dizzy, heartburn, and will eventually puke if I exert myself when hammered.  Plus, its incredibly expensive....I cant understand how people can go out and drip $40 at a bar....I cant even drink two beers at a sitting.

 

The fact that you really feel that certain qualities improve for you when your drunk is kind of hard to get my head around.  Drinking depresses your central nervous system, bangs up your renal system, and messes with your guut.  Also it cuts off oxygen to the brain.  What you feel as enhancement is just inebriation.  And also, it seems a dangerous thing to feel you need to be buzzed to enjoy anything more.  That sounds like a road to disaster if you asked me.



#52 Ginger Snap

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 10:50 PM

Your friend might be interested in this, I've heard very good things about it by professionals and folks that have overcome addictive behaviors. 

 

http://smartrecovery.org



#53 Jabadoodle

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 11:35 PM

The fact that you really feel that certain qualities improve for you when your drunk is kind of hard to get my head around.  Drinking depresses your central nervous system, bangs up your renal system, and messes with your guut.  Also it cuts off oxygen to the brain.  What you feel as enhancement is just inebriation.  And also, it seems a dangerous thing to feel you need to be buzzed to enjoy anything more.  That sounds like a road to disaster if you asked me.

 
First, you are putting words in my mouth that I did not say. I'm trying to be respectful of what you are trying to offer, but you need to be respectful of what you read. In your other post you said, "My advice is to stop wishing you could be drunk or high and start living". I never said I was wishing I could be drunk or that I'm not living now and/or when I'm not drunk. Now you say, " feel you need to be buzzed to enjoy anything more." I never said anything close to that. I enjoy many, many things drinking, drunk, and sober. 
 
Don't make shit up. Okay?
 
 

 

The fact that you really feel that certain qualities improve for you when your drunk is kind of hard to get my head around.  

 

 
I understand it's hard to get your head around. I have now met many people both in this thread and in real life that can't get their head around it -- even as some of them have fists wrapped around a drink. As ChinaCat said, "Well, they may not say it but they're admitting it every time they drink".   Every person still taking a substance believes this to be true even if they can't or won't admit it.  (Well, I suppose with a possible exception of people with physical withdrawal & craving. )

 

 


 
 



#54 china cat

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 11:48 PM

 

 

 

 

 
I understand it's hard to get your head around. I have now met many people both in this thread and in real life that can't get their head around it -- even as some of them have fists wrapped around a drink. As ChinaCat said, "Well, they may not say it but they're admitting it every time they drink".  

 

 


 
 

 

or have paper on their tongue.. or a bowl in hand...a pharmaceutical... or.... 

 

certain qualities never improve for you, hoagie, when you're on a substance? really? Trying not to assume, just asking (and more a rhetorical question, actually)

 

people use these to socialize, relax, expand, and even numb.. whatever. alcohol is no different, it's just the more socially acceptable and readily available option. And since the alcohol industry is booming, I'd guess G is on to something.



#55 Jabadoodle

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Posted 08 November 2013 - 12:46 AM

  Also it cuts off oxygen to the brain.  What you feel as enhancement is just inebriation.  And also, it seems a dangerous thing to feel you need to be buzzed to enjoy anything more.  That sounds like a road to disaster if you asked me.

 

A slight retraction on my part. I read what you wrote as " feel you need to be buzzed to enjoy anything (any) more." Which you did not type. Sorry. I did kind of say I need to be buzzed to enjoy "more" in some situations. So, again, my bad -- at least a little. ~



#56 Slarti

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Posted 08 November 2013 - 12:51 AM

pawn to king four :lol:



#57 chefjeff

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Posted 08 November 2013 - 01:51 AM

Last two I only had a beer! I loved it!!!!

#58 chefjeff

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Posted 08 November 2013 - 01:51 AM

Shows

#59 Slarti

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Posted 08 November 2013 - 02:03 AM

rip nucka



#60 insolent cur

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Posted 08 November 2013 - 02:12 AM

PATIENCE is how you can adjust to this sober you.

 

...and support.



#61 hoagie

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Posted 08 November 2013 - 01:23 PM

Its all good on my end, no offense meant or taken.

 

 

 

certain qualities never improve for you, hoagie, when you're on a substance? really? Trying not to assume, just asking (and more a rhetorical question, actually)

 

I dont really use alcohol.  Ill have some wine, or a rum drink or two, but overall, drinking is an overall detriment to my enjoyment of anything.  I get slower, tired, groggy, and sick to my stomach, and within an hour of my last drink Ill get a splitting headache.  Im weird, no doubt.  

 

I DO :pimp: it helps me to relax and decompress at the end of the day and helps me fall asleep.  I will be the first one to admit that it also makes me more anti-social, less open, more reserved, and less witty/creative overall....and it makes me lazy.  When I am sober (most of the workday) I am sharper, more witty, definitely more friendly and talkative, but more hyper and often have a racing mind which can lead to anxiety over nothing..,.so the :pimp: also acts as medication to control those feelings.  It is expensive too...but i dont use any presciptions ever, nor much OTC medicine...just :pimp: for that headache/tummy ache/insomnia

 

Sometimes I wonder if I have missed out on connecting with more people because I don't like drinking.  The fact that it's ubiquitous everywhere in every adult social situation makes me suspicious of drinkers in general.  Leads me to the opinion that so many things would be better if people chose to not drink it in general.  That no one else seems to be bothered that it is an accepted social crutch makes me also go "hmmmm".

 

end ramble..



#62 Jabadoodle

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Posted 08 November 2013 - 02:50 PM

Its all good on my end, no offense meant or taken.

 

Just got to push back when I feel the need. But Yeah, def no problems :smile2:

 

 

I dont really use alcohol.  Ill have some wine, or a rum drink or two, but overall, drinking is an overall detriment to my enjoyment of anything.  I get slower, tired, groggy, and sick to my stomach, and within an hour of my last drink Ill get a splitting headache.  Im weird, no doubt.  

 

This is wine for me. Almost always results in bad physical feelings.

 

 

I DO :gregoir: it helps me to relax and decompress at the end of the day and helps me fall asleep.  I will be the first one to admit that it also makes me more anti-social, less open, more reserved, and less witty/creative overall....and it makes me lazy.  When I am sober (most of the workday) I am sharper, more witty, definitely more friendly and talkative, but more hyper and often have a racing mind which can lead to anxiety over nothing..,.so the :gregoir: also acts as medication to control those feelings.  It is expensive too...but i dont use any presciptions ever, nor much OTC medicine...just :gregoir: for that headache/tummy ache/insomnia

 

I don't   :gregoir:, used to a long time ago -- but it totally messes both with my mind and my body -- can litterally knock me down to the ground in 5 seconds sometimes. I think it's a blood pressure / blood sugar thing; though maybe also to do with a panic type reaction. 


But for the people that do it "sucseccfully" I do see this differently than most other things. I think it can be a way to hide from thigns for some. One person described it as going around wrapped in cotton. Nice and fuzzy but not feeling everything. I think this may be more true for the people that do it almost constantly or at least in every non-work moment. Still, I do see it a bit differently than most of the other stuff. 

 

Sometimes I wonder if I have missed out on connecting with more people because I don't like drinking.  

 

I know for sure I would have. On the other hand, I think I missed out on some very different social/friendships by drinking. In my case I believe moderating it back is key. I don't mean just in quantity but more like...have more non-work non-party/music/drink activities. It has been for a long time that a very large percentage of my lesiure/fun has been with driking and/or music. This is not bad, but it's been to the detriment of some other really great things in this world. That is not to say I did none or those things, just less than I'm now comfortable with. 

 

The fact that it's ubiquitous everywhere in every adult social situation makes me suspicious of drinkers in general.  Leads me to the opinion that so many things would be better if people chose to not drink it in general.  That no one else seems to be bothered that it is an accepted social crutch makes me also go "hmmmm".

 

Agreed. I think is it a social crutch much more often and much more severely than many people realize. And that's okay too. 



#63 Jabadoodle

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Posted 08 November 2013 - 02:52 PM


I just saw a post elsewhere about a friend facing fear via art. Makes me wonder if facing fear in other ways -- art, extreme sports, extreme persuit of dreams that scare you, etc.... could be a way to help open up without the booze. ~ 'cause the thing I've been trying to get to all along was an answer better than just "patience" or "only you can do it". These aren't wrong, but I'm saying, couldn't there be good & specific advice. I intuit that there can. Advice might be things like: Go skydiving -- or whatever you fear is. Open up that way. It will stick with you.

 



#64 china cat

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Posted 08 November 2013 - 11:33 PM

 

Because of this thread, I'm going to do a 30 days alcohol free.

 

well, this already sucks :lol:



#65 Jabadoodle

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Posted 08 November 2013 - 11:59 PM

well, this already sucks :lol:

Ep-2-Merrick.jpg

 

A.W. Merrick: May I say, Dan, having resumed drinking

alcohol, I cannot for the life of me remember why I ever

gave it up.

 

 

PS: China, if it helps any, you have my blessings

on having as much booze as you can handle.



#66 scarfire

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Posted 09 November 2013 - 12:03 AM

i miss the incredible raucous laughter that i have not experienced since giving up inhaling nitrous balloons. really - you can't match that state of laughter anywhere - certainly not by getting tipsy on some IPAs. it's something i'll always treasure.

 

but it was time to move past all that. i still get a cheap thrill when i hear the covert hisses upon exiting a show!  :bigsmile:



#67 Jabadoodle

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Posted 09 November 2013 - 12:48 AM



#68 Jabadoodle

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Posted 09 November 2013 - 01:43 AM

Yo. Listen to this!

 

https://soundcloud.c...abadoodle/aohmr



#69 TEO

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Posted 09 November 2013 - 11:49 AM

I get you Tim. And I totally see it and agree with it...but I'm looking for more. 

Just one example. It's a simple and not important one, but indicative. The friend I mentioned in previous post. We're drinking and talking. He's saying something that is kind of a friendly dig on me. I just come out with this supper funny supper witty comment. It adds so much to my enjoyment, and his. But I'd never do that sober. It's not that I'd think of it and not say it. It's that I'd never think of it. ~ Or maybe it's some pre-conscious filter that would screen it out? 

So while I agree with acceptance and cultivating less fear and more love....I'm not seeing how that translates into what I'm talking about. 

 

Thoughts?

 

 

Sounds like there could be an aspect of the ego of pride holding this person back when the restraints are not lowered/lubed.

Note shyness is also an aspect of the ego of pride.

What does that mean?  The person has doubts, fear of opening the mouth for fear that what comes out may be lacking, somehow fall short.

Why would the witty comment not even be thought of?  Perhaps the person's mind is too busy churning with worries, mulling, anxiety, etc..

 

Working on quieting the mind as well as paying attention to what the physical body has to say, via tenseness or other signs could be a tool in freeing the witty aspects over time without the alcohol lubricant.



#70 sarah b.

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Posted 09 November 2013 - 12:07 PM

i've been known to draw at bars or in social situations, or while catching live music. i like to draw. photography also gives me something to do with my hands, rather than talk to people. re: fears, i've found running into them head on to be the most effective way to work through them, and finding/ making a safe time and place to do so to be helpful for me.

#71 sarah b.

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Posted 09 November 2013 - 12:10 PM

if you seek external validation substance-free, i recommend volunteer work. everyone thinks you're great 'cause you're doing something good, and doing good things feels good (anyway). it probably doesn't matter what kind you do. i like coaching kids (judo). youth sports leagues can always use more reliable adult coaches/volunteers.

#72 TEO

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Posted 09 November 2013 - 12:12 PM

To be beautiful means to be yourself. You don’t need to be accepted by others. You need to accept yourself.
~ Thich Nhat Hanh



#73 insolent cur

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Posted 10 November 2013 - 04:55 PM

I think it can be a way to hide from things for some.

 

I quit because of this and health reasons.  At some point along the way I crossed a line from recreation to self-medication.  Smoke also causes the build up arterial plaque.  For me, quitting was a win on so many "levals."



#74 Ginger Snap

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Posted 10 November 2013 - 10:47 PM

The sway of alcohol over mankind is unquestionably due to its power to stimulate the mystical faculties of human nature, usually crushed to earth by the cold facts and dry criticisms of the sober hour-William James



#75 china cat

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Posted 10 November 2013 - 11:49 PM

not sure I buy that quote, not regarding alcohol anyway. Some other mind altering substances? maybe.

 

So update:

 

so, Friday (day 2 of pledge), I was starting to feel disappointed in my decision. I got out of work at 2:00 and ran around getting food and wine for friends. When I started preppin food/playing music I really wanted some wine. I see it as a way to wind down after a busy week and loosen things up so conversation might flow smoother. Can/do I have great conversations with friends otherwise? sure, out to lunch, etc... but weekend nights just seem to invite alcohol.

 

I did have a glass of wine.

 

It's all I had and it felt good to be able to stop (not be hungover and all). Interestingly, just having the wine in hand (without having drank much of it) was enough to relax a bit. Guess that says something about the psychological crutch for which it's used.

 

I had a conversation about booze.with the first friend to arrive. She talked booze as ritual, booze as lubricant...  I felt okay having the drink, because part of what I sought to discover about my relationship to booze was already playing out. The fact that I had a glass is part of that discovery. All observation.. I'm trying to approach with curiosity (not judgement ;)

 

No one drank too much that night. By 11:00 I kinda wanted the night to be over - I was done, tired... if I was drunk that would not have been the case. I would have been youtubing lots of songs, etc... music does feel more intense (to me anyway) with a buzz

 

Do I think I had less good of a time? Yeah, kinda. I like the way catching a buzz feels.

 

With Tim now.. no drinking last night or tonight or for the rest of the week...I don't foresee this week being a bummer without booze, since I don't drink during the week anyway.

 

We'll see what next weekend invites.



#76 Jabadoodle

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Posted 10 November 2013 - 11:57 PM

well, this already sucks :lol:

 

ChinaCat'd  :lol:



#77 TEO

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Posted 12 November 2013 - 01:23 PM

Alcohol without the hangover? It's closer than you think
Science now allows us to develop a safer way to get drunk. But before we can sober up in minutes, the drinks industry needs to embrace this healthier approach
 
'If alcohol was discovered today it could never be sold as it is far too toxic to be allowed under current food regulations'. Photograph: Action Press/Rex Features

Imagine enjoying a seasonal drink at a Christmas party without the risk of a hangover the next day, or being able then to take an antidote that would allow you to drive home safely. It sounds like science fiction but these ambitions are well within the grasp of modern neuroscience.

 

Alcohol is both one of the oldest and most dangerous drugs, responsible for about 2.5 million deaths worldwide, which is more than malaria or Aids. The reasons for this are well known: alcohol is toxic to all body systems, and particularly the liver, heart and brain. It makes users uninhibited, leading to a vast amount of violence and is also quite likely to cause dependence, so about 10% of users get locked into addiction. If alcohol was discovered today it could never be sold as it is far too toxic to be allowed under current food regulations, let alone pharmaceutical safety thresholds. In this health-conscious age, it is odd that these aspects of alcohol are rarely discussed.

 

The only proven way to reduce alcohol harms is to limit consumption through increased pricing and limiting availability. Most governments have shied away from this because of pubic opinion and fears of lost tax income – the notable exception being Scotland with its minimum pricing strategy. An alternative strategy that offers greater health benefits would be to make a safer version of alcohol.

We know that the main target for alcohol in the brain is the neurotransmitter system gamma aminobutyric acid (Gaba), which keeps the brain calm. Alcohol therefore relaxes users through mimicking and increasing the Gaba function. But we also know that there are a range of Gaba subsystems that can be targeted by selective drugs. So in theory we can make an alcohol surrogate that makes people feel relaxed and sociable and remove the unwanted effects, such as aggression and addictiveness.

 

I have identified five such compounds and now need to test them to see if people find the effects as pleasurable as alcohol. The challenge is to prepare the new drink in a fashion that makes it as tasty and appealing. This is likely to be in the form of a cocktail, so I foresee plenty of different flavours. The other great advantage of this scientific approach to intoxication is that if we target compounds that affect the Gaba system, then it is possible to produce other drugs that could be sold alongside the alcohol substitute as an antidote.

 

I have sampled both new forms. After exploring one possible compound I was quite relaxed and sleepily inebriated for an hour or so, then within minutes of taking the antidote I was up giving a lecture with no impairment whatsoever.

 

All that is needed now is funding to test and put them on the market. A few contacts within the alcohol industry suggest they are interested but do not need to engage until this new invention becomes a threat to their sales. This is a similar situation to that of the tobacco companies when e-cigarettes were being developed. They stood back at first but now own many of the companies making the safer alternatives to cigarettes. Likewise, without investing in a new approach to alcohol, we shall not realise the enormous health potential of a safer alternative.

 

http://www.theguardi...rs-closer-think



#78 u.s.blues

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Posted 12 November 2013 - 01:36 PM

synthahol?



#79 TEO

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Posted 12 November 2013 - 01:38 PM

:lol:



#80 hoagie

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Posted 12 November 2013 - 01:47 PM

 it is possible to produce other drugs that could be sold alongside the alcohol substitute as an antidote.

 

Trichloronectalin....



#81 sarah b.

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Posted 12 November 2013 - 03:40 PM

that's really interesting, Teo. fwiw, I've had the same pack of smokes in my glovebox (rescued from my Sandied station wagon) for 5+ years. I've had 2, I think, for those moments when I'd rather do something far more destructive. it's like a security blanklet. I don't need it, but it's nice to know it's there. they don't even make camel special lights anymore, I don't think. :lol:

#82 Tim the Beek

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Posted 12 November 2013 - 03:53 PM

Quitting drinking has enabled/forced me over time to address some things about life and myself which hooch helped me to run from.

Cuzza that, I'm glad there was never a "safe drinking pill" or alcohol variant with an instant antidote (though I don't know if that would have helped - you have to be willing to come back to clarity in order to use the antidote). While I wish I had treated some people differently and made some healthier choices back when, I don't know if I'd be who I am today without having experienced the whole thing.

And I'm pretty ok with who I am today. :)



#83 Ginger Snap

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Posted 12 November 2013 - 04:00 PM



And I'm pretty ok with who I am today. :)

 

Well yeah...you're awesome. :smile:



#84 Tim the Beek

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Posted 12 November 2013 - 07:33 PM

Well yeah...you're awesome. :smile:


<3

and fuck you, Wit! :mrgreen:



#85 hoagie

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Posted 13 November 2013 - 12:58 PM

that's really interesting, Teo. fwiw, I've had the same pack of smokes in my glovebox (rescued from my Sandied station wagon) for 5+ years. I've had 2, I think, for those moments when I'd rather do something far more destructive. it's like a security blanklet. I don't need it, but it's nice to know it's there. they don't even make camel special lights anymore, I don't think. :lol:

 

omg those must be the nastiest, most stale cigs ever ever.  throw them out and buy fresh security cigs..



#86 hoagie

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Posted 13 November 2013 - 01:00 PM

Quitting drinking has enabled/forced me over time to address some things about life and myself which hooch helped me to run from.

Cuzza that, I'm glad there was never a "safe drinking pill" or alcohol variant with an instant antidote (though I don't know if that would have helped - you have to be willing to come back to clarity in order to use the antidote). While I wish I had treated some people differently and made some healthier choices back when, I don't know if I'd be who I am today without having experienced the whole thing.

And I'm pretty ok with who I am today. :)

 

So, if there was an injection (or pill/device) you could get that would render any amount of alcohol harmless to your system, thus being unable to get "drunk" ever again, you wouldnt get it?



#87 Ginger Snap

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Posted 13 November 2013 - 01:02 PM

Why would he need to?



#88 hoagie

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Posted 13 November 2013 - 01:08 PM

Why would he need to?

 

no one needs to do anything



#89 Tim the Beek

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Posted 13 November 2013 - 01:38 PM

So, if there was an injection (or pill/device) you could get that would render any amount of alcohol harmless to your system, thus being unable to get "drunk" ever again, you wouldnt get it?


Can't say for sure, as it isn't available at this time, but I think it's very unlikely that I'd take it.

 

Why would I?



#90 china cat

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Posted 14 November 2013 - 01:35 AM

screw meditation and raising kids, it's all about fuckin and boozin. I feel so relieved.

 

http://now.msn.com/s...t-per-new-study

 

(the comments are priceless :lol: )



#91 Ginger Snap

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Posted 14 November 2013 - 01:57 AM

:lol: I saw this a couple months ago. 



#92 sarah b.

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Posted 14 November 2013 - 05:28 AM

nope. i like my old box of blanky butts just fine, thanks. :)

#93 hoagie

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Posted 14 November 2013 - 12:50 PM

Funny how the things that make you very happy bring the most misery in life. Good one God.


#94 Tim the Beek

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Posted 15 November 2013 - 01:33 PM

1453509_10151985913890199_1434152389_n.j



#95 TEO

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Posted 15 November 2013 - 02:10 PM

Work on building self-confidence.  Perhaps this could translate to throwing out topics in which one has confidence.



#96 Jabadoodle

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Posted 15 November 2013 - 03:12 PM

Perhaps this could translate to throwing out topics in which one has confidence.


What does this mean?



#97 TEO

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Posted 15 November 2013 - 05:06 PM

When in a social situation, bring up topics in which you have confidence rather than hoping to come up with a witty reply to someone else's topic.



#98 Jabadoodle

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Posted 15 November 2013 - 05:19 PM

When in a social situation, bring up topics in which you have confidence rather than hoping to come up with a witty reply to someone else's topic.


Edited...Sorry, let me put that better. Thanks for the idea. Will actually work in some situations. Not quite what I'm talking about, but still...



#99 Jersey Thug

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Posted 15 November 2013 - 10:46 PM

When in a social situation, bring up topics in which you have confidence rather than hoping to come up with a witty reply to someone else's topic.

 

i see your point, but how would that work exactly?  conversation is a two way street and you can't just keep changing the subject to cover only those things you're truly confident in speaking (wittily?) about.  well, you can, but you'd quickly be deemed a jerk who only listens long enough to hear himself speak.  or so it seems to me.



#100 TEO

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Posted 16 November 2013 - 01:00 AM

Hmm..have you ever heard me work a room?