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Sobriety and The Self


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#1 Jabadoodle

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Posted 05 November 2013 - 07:35 PM


So when one stops using substances, there can be a tendency to not feel as much like one's old self. Of course the easy answer is, "No. Now you finally are yourself." Fair enough. But lets step beyond that. I know I have felt that I'm not a comfortable. That I don't say as much as I want to say. That I don't connect as much -- even if it's in a fucked up way sometimes. I know others that have said similar things. One friend is "in her head" too much when not on whatever.

 

I see lots of people post and hear lots of people talk about the advantages of sobriety. But I don't see much (anything?) on how one can be and do all those things that substances let them do -- without the bad. I'm guessing meditaiton might help some. But what about things like these real life examples from myself and others...

 

...out with people, the internal sensor limit is higher. So you just aren't as fun, funny, open, flowing.

...listening to live music, but not feeling it as deeply as you can remember

 

(I'll think of others)


 

PS: Again, this is more out of conversations with others, I'm not currently over indulging nor am I on any wagons...except for occasionally to support a friend. 

 

 

 



#2 Julius

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Posted 05 November 2013 - 07:41 PM

So what kind of philosophy pills are you taking these days?



#3 Tim the Beek

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Posted 05 November 2013 - 07:42 PM

When it's taking more than it's giving is a good time to stop, I think.

For me, putting down the bottle was a necessity. It was bringing more pain to me and those around me than any good which might have come from it.

I think that getting unfilitered past the fears we use such things to get past is achieved through patience and practice (meditation is helpful).



#4 TEO

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Posted 05 November 2013 - 07:49 PM

Can't interact as freely, connect, or is it that the filter is in place rather than blown-open?

 

Seems more a matter of making peace with oneself, being honest with oneself about who you really are, how you think and feel.



#5 grateful_1

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Posted 05 November 2013 - 08:45 PM

What's the question?

 

Much of what I see written is relating to perception.



#6 Jabadoodle

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Posted 05 November 2013 - 08:51 PM

When it's taking more than it's giving is a good time to stop, I think.
For me, putting down the bottle was a necessity. It was bringing more pain to me and those around me than any good which might have come from it.


Perfect sense. Exactly. 

 

I think that getting unfilitered past the fears we use such things to get past is achieved through patience and practice (meditation is helpful).

 

What I'm asking is: If we acknowledge that use was "giving" something. If we ackowledge that we are now not using because it's taking more than it's giving. If we acknowledge that we would (if we can) still like to "get" some of what we did value by using...how can one do that. Yes, "patience, practice, and meditation" are good general and long term answers. I'm just wondering if there are any more specific tips. 

Like if I said I wanted to learn to play music, or loose weight, or learn to grow food and cook...saying, ""patience, practice, and dedication" are great and true -- but can we develop any more into how? 

Like, if I'm out with friend and they are drinking and I'm not. If I feel my barriers are up. How can I loosen up, be as funny, be as open. If I'm listening to music at a show but am more in my head than I'd like...and I've done meditation and yoga and am doing it a few times a week...but I'm still feeling so not there -- you have any tips?

Guess what I'm saying is, for many things are are books or common-wisdom that help people through. But I don't see this for substances. 

 

 

Seems more a matter of making peace with oneself, being honest with oneself about who you really are, how you think and feel.


Yes, it is making peace. It it being honest. But again (as above) how does one do it. There is no denying that for many people I know, one of the reasons they continue to use is because without it something is missing, some part of them is not there, some part of them is hidden. ~ It's fine to say, "Just don't use and you will find you" -- but what I'm asking in this thread is for more of the specifics. Kind of the "how to" manual. Kind of the "applied class" not just the "theory class".



#7 Jabadoodle

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Posted 05 November 2013 - 08:54 PM

What's the question?


When I* use, more bad than good comes of it so I don't use. And while it's better in total, there is some "good" that is gone by not using. If I could get back all or some of that "good" in a natural (non-using) way, I might not use or be tempted to use or relapse, etc.  So, the question is: How to I use but still keep some/all of the "good stuff" naturally.

I*: Again, not about me, at least not right now. 



#8 Jersey Thug

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Posted 05 November 2013 - 09:01 PM

for me, it's a compromise for sure.  my (relative to past life me) sobriety is a decision i made to extend my life and increase my connection to the world around me and to those closest to me.  there certainly ARE things i miss about the younger/old me.  but as many of my old friends are, well, older than me...i have had the opportunity to see the path i was headed down.  and while the journey was great, lots of lovely colorful scenery and adventures...i didn't so much love the destination.

 

so i chose a different path.  

 

if i don't connect with some people, places and events in the same way i once did...well, yeah.  that's tough.  but also a necessary step in my journey.  if it was meant to be that we find a new way of connecting, we will.  i can't force that out of some need to stay there in the past, reliving the same experiences and trying to keep stuff from changing.  it'll change with or without my being okay with it.  



#9 Jabadoodle

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Posted 05 November 2013 - 09:01 PM

So what kind of philosophy pills are you taking these days?


Is that what we're calling them now, "Philosophy Pills?"

$15 each, 3 for $40, or $5 for me to describe the essence of one to you.



#10 Jabadoodle

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Posted 05 November 2013 - 09:06 PM

 

 

if i don't connect with some people, places and events in the same way i once did...well, yeah.  that's tough.  but also a necessary step in my journey.  if it was meant to be that we find a new way of connecting, we will.  i can't force that out of some need to stay there in the past, reliving the same experiences and trying to keep stuff from changing.  it'll change with or without my being okay with it.  

 

So I think you're saying something like...maybe don't try to connect as you once did. That's done & gone. It was who you were and that was a good part of life, but let it go and don't try to get back any of that?

And maybe that's a good answer.

Maybe it's analogous to giving up meat. I've seen some type here that all the faux-meat is just silly. You have up meat, why try to then fake your way back to it. On the other hand, there was a recent (on Facebook) thread about meatless gravy for mashed potatoes and people seemed thrilled to be able to have that option of a good gravy again. 

:dunno:

 



#11 grateful_1

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Posted 05 November 2013 - 09:08 PM


When I* use, more bad than good comes of it so I don't use. And while it's better in total, there is some "good" that is gone by not using. If I could get back all or some of that "good" in a natural (non-using) way, I might not use or be tempted to use or relapse, etc.  So, the question is: How to I use but still keep some/all of the "good stuff" naturally.

I*: Again, not about me, at least not right now. 

 

 

What's 'good' that is gone?

 

There's a phrase, 'My worst day sober is better than my best day high.' - now why is that?

The 'good' while high is distorted....is it really that funny? Is it really 'that good'?  Is she really 'that'...well, you get the gist!



#12 Jersey Thug

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Posted 05 November 2013 - 09:11 PM

So I think you're saying something like...maybe don't try to connect as you once did. That's done & gone. It was who you were and that was a good part of life, but let it go and don't try to get back any of that?

And maybe that's a good answer.

Maybe it's analogous to giving up meat. I've seen some type here that all the faux-meat is just silly. You have up meat, why try to then fake your way back to it. On the other hand, there was a recent (on Facebook) thread about meatless gravy for mashed potatoes and people seemed thrilled to be able to have that option of a good gravy again. 

:dunno:

 

good gravy is good gravy.  it doesn't have to try to be the old gravy you grew up on.  it's just GOOD.  it's okay to like the new gravy even if it's different and not what others might deem a proper gravy, Gary :) :heart:



#13 TakeAStepBack

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Posted 05 November 2013 - 09:19 PM

Now that's good gravy!



#14 Jersey Thug

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Posted 05 November 2013 - 09:22 PM

What's 'good' that is gone?

 

There's a phrase, 'My worst day sober is better than my best day high.' - now why is that?

The 'good' while high is distorted....is it really that funny? Is it really 'that good'?  Is she really 'that'...well, you get the gist!

 

i've never understood the tendency to downplay good times, no matter what changes you've made in your life since.

 

yes, my good times back then were good.  they were VERY good.  were they "the best times of my life"?  i don't think so.  but i don't need to tell myself it was less fun than i remember, in order to make changes that make sense for me NOW.  

 

they were every bit that good.  i wouldn't change a thing about any of it.  okay, well, maybe that one little detail.  and that one.  but mostly, i don't regret anything that made me smile, gave me joy and helped me become the person i've become.  am becoming.  whatever.

 

my worst day sober can be pretty lousy.  and my best day high was pretty amazing.  yeah, i guess i just don't get it.  i consider it a rationalization that, while useful for some, is just unnecessary for me.  some days are perfect and beautifully in focus and filled with all your favorite things, and others are...not.  



#15 Jabadoodle

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Posted 05 November 2013 - 09:23 PM

There's a phrase, 'My worst day sober is better than my best day high.' - now why is that?

 

'cause people that are trying to stay sober need phrases, true or not, that help them through?

Because for some people that is true, and for others it isn't?

Because there are lots of sayings about lots of things, many contradictory to each other, so they can't all be true.

 

 

What's 'good' that is gone?

 

When I don't drink often/sometimes
* I am not as open with people.

* I don't form the emotional connections I do other times with people

* People don't open up as much to me to show me their true/deeper selves
* The conversation is more linear and less exploratory, conceptual

* I hold back from saying things that might make people uncomfortable - which is nice, but not as open.

* I don't do as many fun crazy things (like jump in the lake in the middle of the night -- safely -- ) or stay up to watch the sun rise over the bay.

* etc.

 

Don't even try to tell me there aren't good things about drinking and using. People do it for a reason. You want to tell me it "takes more than it gives" fine. But don't say there is nothing there, that's just BS. Believe it if you need it, but it's just not true.

 

The 'good' while high is distorted....is it really that funny? Is it really 'that good'?  Is she really 'that'...well, you get the gist!

 

Yes, some of it is that funny. Some of it is that good. Yes, she really was that amazing

And if what you want to say is, "Well, can't you get all that without using?" That is exactly what I'm asking. 



#16 Jersey Thug

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Posted 05 November 2013 - 09:23 PM

(sober, or not)



#17 Jersey Thug

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Posted 05 November 2013 - 09:28 PM

And if what you want to say is, "Well, can't you get all that without using?" That is exactly what I'm asking. 

 

yes.  

 

just...maybe not with the same people, places and things or in the same way as as you once experienced.  

 

maybe so, though, who knows?  if you really want it, i guess just about anything is possible.  



#18 Tim the Beek

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Posted 05 November 2013 - 09:40 PM

Don't even try to tell me there aren't good things about drinking and using. People do it for a reason. You want to tell me it "takes more than it gives" fine. But don't say there is nothing there, that's just BS. Believe it if you need it, but it's just not true.


I don't disagree. But for some folks, it can come to the point where it's all take and no give.

As far as "worst day/best day," the peace that I've found through not drinking, and pursuing other ways to deal with my fears and problems lends a lot of credence to the notion for me. It's not suggesting that there weren't some drunk days which were more fun than some of my undrunk days. There surely were. But "better" doesn't necessarily mean more fun, or less painful.

Perhaps, unless you've experienced that sort of bondage and freedom, it's not possible to understand, at least deeply, what it means.  I dunno.



#19 Jabadoodle

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Posted 05 November 2013 - 09:53 PM


I don't disagree. But for some folks, it can come to the point where it's all take and no give.

As far as "worst day/best day," the peace that I've found through not drinking, and pursuing other ways to deal with my fears and problems lends a lot of credence to the notion for me. It's not suggesting that there weren't some drunk days which were more fun than some of my undrunk days. There surely were. But "better" doesn't necessarily mean more fun, or less painful.

Perhaps, unless you've experienced that sort of bondage and freedom, it's not possible to understand, at least deeply, what it means.  I dunno.

 

I get all that. Not sure I've been in as much bondage as you and maybe not as much freedom either -- or maybe more of both, hard to say. But I do get it -- all of what you've said above.

Let me be as specific as possible: I have a friend that is sober but struggles some with missing the good times. She doesn't want to go back -- because what it takes away is much more than what it gives. But there is still the pull of wanting the good times, the parts there were good. What specific advice might you give? Do they talk about this type of thing in meetings? Are there any books or other resources? 

I could picture a counselor or a book that walks people through things like -- if you are missing this...think of it this way and try these natural ways to do the same. 


Or is it as Thuggy was leanin toward -- you can't go back. Let it go and don't even expect to get any of that back in any form.


 Not knowing anymore than that (pretend you were writing a book to appeal to a general public, not just one person) what type of advice do you think might help.



#20 Jersey Thug

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Posted 05 November 2013 - 10:00 PM

bondage  :huh:



#21 Jersey Thug

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Posted 05 November 2013 - 10:06 PM

sorry :lol:  i'm easily distracted.

 

i don't think it's useful or maybe even healthy to try and "get that back".  i'm not saying you have to give up everything.  old friends, old haunts, old pleasures.  the things that mattered, try them on for size, see how they fit into your new reality.  but don't try to force them into fitting.  they might, they might not.  

 

but your time will be filled with new things, things your old life might not have had room for.  you'll find new enjoyment in many things that didn't even register with you before.  

 

and don't mourn the things you "lost".  you didn't lose them.  you had those experiences, and nothing can take them away.  maybe you can't recreate them, and that might be hard to accept.  

 

but that's okay.  it just means it's just time for some new experiences now.  ones that fit without the use of a sledge hammer and chisel.  without needing to destroy anything.  



#22 Jabadoodle

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Posted 05 November 2013 - 10:48 PM

sorry :lol:  i'm easily distracted.

 

i don't think it's useful or maybe even healthy to try and "get that back".  i'm not saying you have to give up everything.  old friends, old haunts, old pleasures.  the things that mattered, try them on for size, see how they fit into your new reality.  but don't try to force them into fitting.  they might, they might not.  

 

but your time will be filled with new things, things your old life might not have had room for.  you'll find new enjoyment in many things that didn't even register with you before.  

 

and don't mourn the things you "lost".  you didn't lose them.  you had those experiences, and nothing can take them away.  maybe you can't recreate them, and that might be hard to accept.  

 

but that's okay.  it just means it's just time for some new experiences now.  ones that fit without the use of a sledge hammer and chisel.  without needing to destroy anything.  

 

I'm liking, mostly, where this is going.



#23 Jersey Thug

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Posted 05 November 2013 - 10:58 PM

yeah, that sentence-ending preposition has been bugging me, too.



#24 Ginger Snap

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Posted 05 November 2013 - 11:01 PM

:lol:



#25 sarah b.

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Posted 05 November 2013 - 11:09 PM

It's not a contest between past and present when the winner you're rooting for is you.

 

Or something like that. Pretty much what Thug said.

 

I've had good times and bad both with and without different things.

 

Define what you are seeking and find alternate routes to openness, if you seek to be more open.

 

Self-work can be pretty difficult, sometimes, but, in the long run, I've found it to be worth it.

 

I don't know you well at all, but I know you're a good egg, for the most part. Growth and change can feel icky, sometimes.

 

New and different can feel scary. I know you're brave, too.



#26 Tim the Beek

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Posted 05 November 2013 - 11:17 PM

No particular book comes to mind.

My advice to your friend is to remember without fail where she came from...why she stopped...and to give herself time to fill the blank canvas which is laid out in front of her with new memories and new fun.

Living differently can be frightening, and can seem empty and dull to begin with. But in my experience, it doesn't stay that way. :)



#27 williscat2000

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Posted 05 November 2013 - 11:18 PM

Patience luke. Use the force.

patience

#28 sarah b.

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Posted 05 November 2013 - 11:22 PM

No particular book comes to mind.

My advice to your friend is to remember without fail where she came from...why she stopped...and to give herself time to fill the blank canvas which is laid out in front of her with new memories and new fun.

Living differently can be frightening, and can seem empty and dull to begin with. But in my experience, it doesn't stay that way. :)

absolutely.



#29 Eddie Z

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Posted 06 November 2013 - 12:09 AM

I can talk for days about this as I've lived it.    After a 17 year run of being an Olympic class frat boy alcoholic, I finally walked away at age 33.   I sobered up after a Grateful Dead show (of all places), Highgate VT, June 21, 1995.      (I'm 51 now)..   Roughly 19 years sober now.

 

Writing about it is another story.   This wants to be a 6 page essay that nobody would read.  I'll try to be brief.

 

Alcohol started out to be a "social tool", that when I wasn't looking, became a huge "Ball And Chain".       

 

It took time to break out of the haze, perhaps 6 months...but at some point, what was left was the real me, not the alcohol fueled "Steve-O" type character that enjoyed entertaining people with boozy antics.      Eventually I found cool people to hang out with who's worlds didn't revolve around happy hours and shots, etc...and I fit right in.     It took time though.     The first 6 months were tough.    Very unsettling actually.   Kind of like jumping off a moving freight train...you tumble a bit first.   And then you lick your wounds and move on.   You develop a new normal.   



#30 Kuzsin

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Posted 06 November 2013 - 01:38 AM

...i didnt read all this...but i think its awesome that you are thinking differently....and i suppirt it!

#31 hoagie

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Posted 06 November 2013 - 01:11 PM

When I don't drink often/sometimes
* I am not as open with people.

* I don't form the emotional connections I do other times with people

* People don't open up as much to me to show me their true/deeper selves
* The conversation is more linear and less exploratory, conceptual

* I hold back from saying things that might make people uncomfortable - which is nice, but not as open.

* I don't do as many fun crazy things (like jump in the lake in the middle of the night -- safely -- ) or stay up to watch the sun rise over the bay.

* etc.

 

I) nothing wrong with being less open.  Find new ways to connect, or different settings and activities than you "normally" would.

2)see #1

3)this is more than likely your distorted thinking while high/drunk.  in any case, see #1

4)refer to #3

5)this is a positive disguised as a negative.

6)see #3

etc.

 

My advice is to stop wishing you could be drunk or high and start living.  No book can show you how to enjoy YOU.  That is the lesson people who get hung up in addiction need to re-learn...how to enjoy themselves and be comfortable with themselves.  No matter how fun, when you are not sober, you are not being yourself, the operating conscious you.  



#32 china cat

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 03:18 PM


So when one stops using substances, there can be a tendency to not feel as much like one's old self. Of course the easy answer is, "No. Now you finally are yourself." Fair enough. But lets step beyond that. I know I have felt that I'm not a comfortable. That I don't say as much as I want to say. That I don't connect as much -- even if it's in a fucked up way sometimes. I know others that have said similar things. One friend is "in her head" too much when not on whatever.

 

I see lots of people post and hear lots of people talk about the advantages of sobriety. But I don't see much (anything?) on how one can be and do all those things that substances let them do -- without the bad. I'm guessing meditaiton might help some. But what about things like these real life examples from myself and others...

 

...out with people, the internal sensor limit is higher. So you just aren't as fun, funny, open, flowing.

...listening to live music, but not feeling it as deeply as you can remember

 

(I'll think of others)


 

PS: Again, this is more out of conversations with others, I'm not currently over indulging nor am I on any wagons...except for occasionally to support a friend. 

 

I hear you, G.

 

I definitely feel more open, and that I'm having more fun when I drink. I also enjoy music more... feel more comfortable in my own skin, dancing... uninhibited.

 

I think it's fair to say I've relied on alcohol in social situations.

 

Because of this thread, I'm going to do a 30 days alcohol free. I'm going to let myself deal with wanting that glass (or two or three) of wine with dinner and sit with the initial discontent of it. I've got a bunch of g.friends coming over tomorrow night. that'll be the first test.

 

(That gives me until Dec. 7th, which is the 2nd ryan show in boston. stand forewarned :lol:  )

 

I'll let you know how it goes :)



#33 Jabadoodle

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 03:56 PM

Because of this thread, I'm going to do a 30 days alcohol free.

 

Hey! Don't be blaming that shit on me. 



#34 Jabadoodle

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 04:15 PM

Hoagie: I really do value your response. I do not mean to ask a question then get pissy when someone answers. All of what I type below is just using your response as a way to explain what I'm thinking, to explain the question better. Please do not take it personally. It is not meant that way. I really very much appreciate what you wrote. 

 
 

 

 

What's 'good' that is gone?

 

In answer to that I wrote...

 

When I don't drink often/sometimes
* I am not as open with people.

* I don't form the emotional connections I do other times with people

* People don't open up as much to me to show me their true/deeper selves
* The conversation is more linear and less exploratory, conceptual

* I hold back from saying things that might make people uncomfortable - which is nice, but not as open.

* I don't do as many fun crazy things (like jump in the lake in the middle of the night -- safely -- ) or stay up to watch the sun rise over the bay.

 

I didn't do this "good while drinking" anywhere near justice. I wish I had, but I don't add in more now -- except to say that I really could give you all lots of very detailed ways of how many things (both for me and for others) are better when drinking. (Note: That is not to say on balance better. The total sum of it might be worse. That is not what I'm saying. I'm saying: There are many good parts that only happen or happen much more when drinking. And for others I know it's other substances.  Note 2: Most people never admit this.)

 

I) nothing wrong with being less open.  Find new ways to connect, or different settings and activities than you "normally" would.

2)see #1

3)this is more than likely your distorted thinking while high/drunk.  in any case, see #1

4)refer to #3

5)this is a positive disguised as a negative.

6)see #3

etc.

 

No. All of what you are saying there comes down to some form of "It really wan't good". Wrong. I am astute at observation over time. I have been watching myself and others for years regarding when I drink and when I don't. There is no doubt that there are positives for all of us when I'm drinking (most times. Nothing be said here is absolute). I have a friend that has been with me in many situations (partying, music, just hanging out, etc.) both drinking and not. I told him this theory (that there is good when I drink) and he would have none of it. But then next time we were hanging and I was drinking I pointed out numerous ways I was more "on" ... more witty, more open, more willing to press back on them in appropriate ways, etc. etc. etc.  ~ It is first hand confirumation that what I'm saying is true. 

I have dumped on it once already and I will do it again: Do not tell me there are no good parts to the drinking (in my case) or other things (in other people's cases). It's a nice and convenient fantasy; but is just is not true.


 

My advice is to stop wishing you could be drunk or high and start living.

 

I am not wishing I could be drunk or high. I'm wishing I could keep many of the good things about being drunk or high that are of value to me and to my friends, without being drunk or high. I am not just going to "give up without a fight". I am wishing I did not have to get drunk or high to "get" these good things. And I don't think I have to. But it's not working to just hope they stay around without the drinking. They don't. I'm going to have to work on getting them.

PS/NOTE: I currently am not trying to give up drinking. I only want to be able to access these parts of me without drink. Then I can choose to drink or not, as I want or as the situation requires. There are wonderful situations (usually involving not having to be anywhere for days) that partying is going to be part of my life -- and where little to no damage has ever been done to me or anyone else because of partying.

 

 

 

 No book can show you how to enjoy YOU.  

 

Maybe, but I don't believe it. Or at least I don't believe there couldn't be wisdom or advice that helps. In almost every other area of life there are books or advise from friends that help the newbies move along. None of that ever does it for you; we each need to do it for ourselves. None of that is ever exactly the same for you; we each have to work our own path. But to just say "You have to learn it yourself." Is ridiculous. As I said, in every other area of life we don't just say, "Sorry. There is no help and not tips. Just go do it."

 

 

That is the lesson people who get hung up in addiction need to re-learn...how to enjoy themselves and be comfortable with themselves.  No matter how fun, when you are not sober, you are not being yourself, the operating conscious you.  

 

Agreed. So my question from the start has been: What tips does anyone have for accessing the parts of your true self that many of us seem not able to access except (or to an extent or sometimes in some situations) only via substances?


 


 



#35 Jabadoodle

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 04:20 PM

I hear you, G.

 

I definitely feel more open, and that I'm having more fun when I drink. I also enjoy music more... feel more comfortable in my own skin, dancing... uninhibited.

 

I think it's fair to say I've relied on alcohol in social situations.

 

First, thanks for admitting that. Many seem not to want to actually say it.

So me a favor. Try to notice what doesn't feel right. How do you not feel comfortable. How or why are you not enjoying something as much. Is it self-doubt? Is it your brain just not operating as fast? What else?  -- And then try to figure out how could you access those same ways of being that you would have had with a glass of wine. Is it caring less what others think? Is it being more physically bouncy & movement oriented?  

 

Or don't if it puts you too much in your mind.

 



#36 Tim the Beek

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 04:26 PM

Agreed. So my question from the start has been: What tips does anyone have for accessing the parts of your true self that many of us seem not able to access except (or to an extent or sometimes in some situations) only via substances?


Acceptance of who we are at the present moment. Cultivating less fear, and more love. Of/for both self and others.



#37 Jabadoodle

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 04:35 PM


Acceptance of who we are at the present moment. Cultivating less fear, and more love. Of.for both self and others.

 

I get you Tim. And I totally see it and agree with it...but I'm looking for more. 

Just one example. It's a simple and not important one, but indicative. The friend I mentioned in previous post. We're drinking and talking. He's saying something that is kind of a friendly dig on me. I just come out with this supper funny supper witty comment. It adds so much to my enjoyment, and his. But I'd never do that sober. It's not that I'd think of it and not say it. It's that I'd never think of it. ~ Or maybe it's some pre-conscious filter that would screen it out? 

So while I agree with acceptance and cultivating less fear and more love....I'm not seeing how that translates into what I'm talking about. 

 

Thoughts?



#38 china cat

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 04:37 PM

First, thanks for admitting that. Many seem not to want to actually say it.

 

 

Well, they may not say it but they're admitting it every time they drink :)

So me a favor. Try to notice what doesn't feel right. How do you not feel comfortable. How or why are you not enjoying something as much. Is it self-doubt? Is it your brain just not operating as fast? What else?  -- And then try to figure out how could you access those same ways of being that you would have had with a glass of wine. Is it caring less what others think? Is it being more physically bouncy & movement oriented?  

 

Or don't if it puts you too much in your mind.

 

I'll definitely let you know. I am already kinda bummed that I just made a decision not to drink with 5 close women friends coming over tomorrow. It will be a challenge, as pouring wine in these situations seems to be PART of the evening with friends.  But I'm going to use the month to observe what comes up for me in those moments I choose not to drink, and, watch how the evening progresses for me.

 



#39 china cat

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 04:39 PM


Acceptance of who we are at the present moment. Cultivating less fear, and more love. Of/for both self and others.

 

But I think people can like themselves and still want a bit of the sillies and relaxed filters that come with drinking.



#40 china cat

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 04:40 PM

Hey! Don't be blaming that shit on me. 

 

it's Tim's fault.



#41 Tim the Beek

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 04:44 PM

But I think people can like themselves and still want a bit of the sillies and relaxed filters that come with drinking.

 

For sure. But I'd venture to guess that if someone's drinking has them considering not drinking on a more or less permanent basis, that there's some fear involved. That if they're completely comfortable with themselves and their environment, that they wouldn't drink to the point where they even had to question whether the bad outweighed the good.
 

it's Tim's fault.


It always is.



#42 Tim the Beek

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 04:49 PM

J- At the purely intellectual level, I don't believe for a second that you're any less capable of being funny and clever just because you haven't been drinking.

The preconscious filter idea is an interesting one. I do think that booze can help bypass filters and fears and "overthinking" which might get in the way of being truly present and open.

I also reckon that when I drank, I thought I was funnier than I really was. 'Course Ms. Kitty will also confirm that without drinking, I think I'm funnier than I really am. :mrgreen:



#43 Jabadoodle

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 04:50 PM

 

I'll definitely let you know. I am already kinda bummed that I just made a decision not to drink with 5 close women friends coming over tomorrow...

 

 

Why would you not drink then? I would only consider not drinking in situations when it has resulted in "more bad than good" for me. Maybe it's different for you, but friends coming to my house for the night/weekend is the ideal time to drink. (Sorry if I'm being the devil here.)



#44 Tim the Beek

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 04:52 PM

And I do think, as someone who at one point used booze as a coping mechanism, that it took time and practice for me to be comfortable being "just me."

Not sayin' it would be the same for someone who uses it differently though.



#45 Jabadoodle

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 04:54 PM

J- At the purely intellectual level, I don't believe for a second that you're any less capable of being funny and clever just because you haven't been drinking.

 

Thanks. I think you're right. Some of it is about just getting into flow. Some of it is about just being bold. Some of it is about not worrying so much that others might be hurt a little. I have good intent and most people know that. They aren't china dolls. If I have to say a little "ooops, I stepped over the line a little" they have to big enough to take it and know me enough to know I'm not a bad person because of it. I have to be strong enough (admit that I am) to take it if they don't like it. 

 

 

The preconscious filter idea is an interesting one. I do think that booze can help bypass filters and fears and "overthinking" which might get in the way of being truly present and open.

 

I think this is very spot on, both from my experience and from the brain-theory I believe to be true. (Funny that I think I'm spot on, no?)

 

 

I also reckon that when I drank, I thought I was funnier than I really was. 'Course Ms. Kitty will also confirm that without drinking, I think I'm funnier than I really am. :mrgreen:


:lol:

 

 I truly am funnier, wittier, quicker thinking etc. when drinking At least while in that sweet spot. After....not so much.



#46 china cat

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 04:56 PM

Why would you not drink then? I would only consider not drinking in situations when it has resulted in "more bad than good" for me. Maybe it's different for you, but friend coming to my house for the night/weekend is the idea time to drink. (Sorry if I'm being the devil here.)

 

'Cause I'm gonna self-evaluate - how much do I really rely on alcohol in social situations?  I'm going to experience a few social situations without alcohol to compare.

 

Plus, I have plans to leave the next morning to see Tim. I don't want a hangover to alter those plans.



#47 china cat

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 04:57 PM



The preconscious filter idea is an interesting one. I do think that booze can help bypass filters and fears and "overthinking" which might get in the way of being truly present and open.

 

 

good observation.



#48 china cat

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 04:58 PM



I also reckon that when I drank, I thought I was funnier than I really was. 'Course Ms. Kitty will also confirm that without drinking, I think I'm funnier than I really am. :mrgreen:

 

confirmed :lol:



#49 u.s.blues

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 09:12 PM

there is a big difference between use and abuse.



#50 Tim the Beek

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 09:20 PM

there is a big difference between use and abuse.


This is true.