101 replies to this topic

[Deadshow Dan]

This is pretty significant and is a good sign. The NY Post (I think) yesterday reported that 7 or more republicans were ready to support the bill, but none have publicly done so until:

State Sen. Jim Alesi, R-Perinton, says he'll support gay marriage



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By AP
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Posted Jun 13, 2011 @ 05:11 PM
Last update Jun 13, 2011 @ 05:20 PM
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</td> </tr> </tbody></table> Albany, N.Y.

[Deadshow Dan]

For those not following this. The Senate adjourns this week. They needed 6 votes as of the beginning of the week, they got 3 of the 4 remaining Democratic senators (leaving one Dem. against ), so they need 2 more votes to end the discrimination in this state. I hope the NY Post is right!

[TakeAStepBack]

Nice!

[Royce5000]

This should have been something new york voted and passed along time ago, hope this gets passed!!!!

[Depends]

NY (and about 25 others) allows first cousins to marry, buy not gays....

http://www.ncsl.org/...aspx?tabid=4266

[TakeAStepBack]

NY (and about 25 others) allows first cousins to marry, buy not gays....

http://www.ncsl.org/...aspx?tabid=4266

[Joker]

[I]Alesi still hasn

[deadheadskier]

I've removed mine. and sorry, time and place. The focus should be on what could be a major source of joy for NYers.

[Joker]

OTOH it could be the source of major disappointment for many NYers.

Everyone knows marriage should be between one weiner and one bun , not two weiners

[Royce5000]

OTOH it could be the source of major disappointment for many NYers.

Everyone knows marriage should be between one weiner and one bun , not two weiners

Yes this is true, but is it really going to be marriage, or will it just be a civil union??? The idea of marriage has been embedded in our brains as one weiner and one bun, so does it even matter if all it is, is a civil union??? It is still not a marriage, plus the idea of acceptance if another issue, so yes could be major disappointment to NY'ers, but it's only a baby step for the gay community.... Even here in massachusetts it's still only a civil union, blah blah blah, I say who cares, let them marry and be miserable like the rest of us right, lol

[Joker]

See, I'm for the civil unions with all the rights (and the misery) but I don't think it should be called "marriage"

[Deadshow Dan]

NY Times editorial

[vic]

[quote name='Joker'][I]

[Deadshow Dan]

i think that's fair...you don't need a church to get married

having the part that assures that clergy need not participate is completely unnecessary. Right now clergy can decide they don't want to officiate because you admit to having made out with each other.. or whatever religious reason they have.

Still, if that's what needs to be explicitly in the bill to get the votes.......

[Joker]

Only because I was raised with marriage as being between a man and a woman.

[SunshineDrummer]

having the part that assures that clergy need not participate is completely unnecessary. Right now clergy can decide they don't want to officiate because you admit to having made out with each other.. or whatever religious reason they have.

Still, if that's what needs to be explicitly in the bill to get the votes.......

I wouldn't call it "completely unnecessary." My guess is that sort of wording might be included in an effort to prevent frivilous lawsuits being filed against churches who, due to their tenets, would not be willing to perform a marriage ceremony for a homosexual couple. We do live in a very litigious society and I could see this happening. Mind you, this is purely guessing on my part. I could be completely off the mark.

[Deadshow Dan]

I understand that concern.

But my understanding is that is already part of existing law. Clergy are not required to marry anyone and have their full religious discretion at their disposal.

For example, mixing of wool and cotton clothing, 'mixed race' marriage, not attending church regularly, could all be reasons a clergy declines to officiate a marriage.

[Depends]

Only because I was raised with marriage as being between a man and a woman.

I was raised where my father beat my mother. Should I continue the tradition?


(NOTE: Not really, my dad never hit my mom, or anyone else as far as I know....)

[vic]

Only because I was raised with marriage as being between a man and a woman.

i was raised catholic but i'm not that naive:wink:

[SunshineDrummer]

I understand that concern.

But my understanding is that is already part of existing law. Clergy are not required to marry anyone and have their full religious discretion at their disposal.

For example, mixing of wool and cotton clothing, 'mixed race' marriage, not attending church regularly, could all be reasons a clergy declines to officiate a marriage.

I guess it depends on the denomination. I've never heard of the wool/cotton clothing issue you mentioned (can you explain?) and since my husband is no longer a practicing Catholic and therefore not a regular churchgoer, our marriage would have been considered "of mixed faith" and would probably have been an issue 30 or 40 years ago. These days, not so much.

Like I said, just a guess on my part. I do believe your initial assumption is correct but in today's society, you have to cover all your bases (sad to say).

[Joker]

I was raised where my father beat my mother. Should I continue the tradition?


(NOTE: Not really, my dad never hit my mom, or anyone else as far as I know....)

i was raised catholic but i'm not that naive:wink:

We were all raised different.

Why not have another word to define a same sex union? In my world the definition of marriage was a man and a woman, I just don't think it should be changed.

Of course "gay" meant something different back then too

[Depends]

words evole. One of the many pleasures of the English language.

[Deadshow Dan]

I've never heard of the wool/cotton clothing issue you mentioned (can you explain?)

I should have said wool and linen. Known as shatnez

[vic]

words evole. One of the many pleasures of the English language.

right...words like marriage:rose:

[Depends]

right...words like marriage:rose:

exactly

[SunshineDrummer]

I should have said wool and linen. Known as shatnez

Hmmm... never knew that. Learned something today!

[Deadshow Dan]

Hmmm... never knew that. Learned something today!

It's kinda nutty!

It would have to be a pretty darn orthodox type to not marry someone for wearing wool with linen! "We got shul three times a day, keep kosher and the shabbat, but darn I love Angelheart clothing! "

[SunshineDrummer]

It's kinda nutty!

It would have to be a pretty darn orthodox type to not marry someone for wearing wool with linen! "We got shul three times a day, keep kosher and the shabbat, but darn I love Angelheart clothing! "

Yeah, that's pretty hardcore. Kinda like a Catholic priest refusing to marrry you because you goofed during Lent & ate meat on a Friday. (No, you're not supposed to, but in the world of sins... its really, really minor)

[vic]

ps...wrong forum'd

(aye if the show fits me and tasb, why not everyone? )

[Deadshow Dan]

The governor has unveiled his bill today

According to the Daily News:
"
The long anticipated proposal requires the same legal rights for same-sex couples who marry as heterosexual couples.
And it prohibits local clerks from nixing marriage license applications from gay couples.
In hopes of attracting key Senate Republican votes, Cuomo's bill also offers exemptions from anti-discrimination laws to religious groups and affiliated organizations.
The Knights of Columbus, for instance, would be allowed to bar same sex couples from renting out catering hall space.
The bill also specifies that no clergy would be forced to perform marriage ceremonies for gay couples."

[TakeAStepBack]

Damn it, vic. I had an over/under going to see just how long this political AND religious thread would sit in family while mine got moved....

PS _ I always put mine in the proper forum out of respect for VGs and saving them the trouble, but Im thinking that practice is over.....

[Deadshow Dan]

vic, this is a current (this week) event with information that is changing. Has more to do with civil rights and love than politics, though certainly it overlaps

[vic]

it is a political issue dealing with politicians and law...with a touch of religious discussion

and it's festival season

wrong forum'd

[Deadshow Dan]

Newsday reports Sen. Alesi (the republican who came out with support) predicts the bill will pass with 35 votes

[TakeAStepBack]

PFFFFT. It's a political and religious discussion.

Last i checked marriage had nothing to do with love and everything to do with religion.

[Joker]

ps...wrong forum'd

(aye if the show fits me and tasb, why not everyone? )

You must be new around here

Welcome to the boards

[TakeAStepBack]

[Deadshow Dan]

Here's the text of the bill: http://governor.ny.g...qualitybill.pdf
The memo:http://governor.ny.g...itybillmemo.pdf

Bill would be law 30 days after being signed. Could be just around Grassroots (in NY) and Vibes !!

[vic]

billsbillsbillspoliticspoliticspolitics

[TakeAStepBack]

the double standard is clear here. Oh well. The onslaught of politics in family will ensue, brehs.

[Joker]

You guys are doing it all wrong (fuckin rookies)

Edited by Joker, 14 June 2011 - 08:38 PM.
I don't want to get banned, yeah I'm a pussy

[Uncle Coulro]

The Knights of Columbus, for instance, would be allowed to bar same sex couples from renting out catering hall space.

That's pretty crafty, since it's likely this provision would not stand against a legal challenge. A KofC hall is not, strictly speaking, a religious institution. If a hall owner rents for any wedding receptions other than those subsequent to a sacramental Catholic wedding, they'll be required to rent to any legally "married" couple. This obviously illegal provision of the pending law will be voided by the first court which hears the challenge.

Once the definition of "marriage" is broadened, a venue, like a KofC hall, by virtue of past SCOTUS rulings, must be made available to all (unless the owner decides to restrict rentals to sacramentally married Catholics) on an equal basis. Just as a wedding hall owner can't refuse to rent to a black or interracial married couple, the case will be made they can't refuse a gay couple's reception. KofC councils will be forced to get out of the wedding reception business, or restrict the rentals only to those sacramentally wedded.

Very clever.

[TakeAStepBack]

Oh, i haven't even begun yet. I'm gonna flood family with politics. They will need to assign a VG to moving my posts....

[SunshineDrummer]

Oh, i haven't even begun yet. I'm gonna flood family with politics. They will need to assign a VG to moving my posts....

Cool. I'll volunteer.

[vic]

the double standard is clear here. Oh well. The onslaught of politics in family will ensue, brehs.

i won't say anything else about where threads should be...it's a silly game for the morons that just wanna talk about absurd mundane crap and don't wanna be bothered with reality...i was just making a point...this is a pretty important subjectthat hits home for me

[TakeAStepBack]

get yer clicker ready, mel.......

I used to do it myself out of respect, but apparently there is a standard that is double so I will have to make it a headache.

[vic]

Cool. I'll volunteer.

ummm...why is this still here then?

[TakeAStepBack]

i won't say anything else about where threads should be...it's a silly game for the morons that just wanna talk about absurd mundane crap and don't wanna be bothered with reality...i was just making a point...this is a pretty important subjectthat hits home for me

I know but I had an over/under about to pop off and you blew up my spot. Sio, I had to at ya about it.

[TakeAStepBack]

ummm...why is this still here then?

To spite the situation......

[vic]

get yer clicker ready, mel.......

I used to do it myself out of respect, but apparently there is a standard that is double so I will have to make it a headache.

cool. i will volunteer.