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This just in - Don't abort the masturbating fetus!


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#1 hippieskichick

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 05:50 PM

Ok, despite your views on abortions, the fact that a politician is using this as an argument is just.... :picardfp:

 

Actually, I guess it's pretty on par for politicians....

 

http://news.yahoo.co...-142631779.html

 

GOP Congressman Wants to Ban Abortion to Save Masturbating Fetuses

 

 

 

In a preview of the many pronouncements to come on the floor of Congress as the House debates a legislative ban on all abortions after 20 weeks, allow us to introduce you to Rep. Michael Burgess (R-Texas), who believes that abortion should be banned earlier than the Supreme Court says it should because, in part, he knows fetuses feel pain. He knows this because he says he's seen male fetuses begin masturbating in the womb around 15 weeks into a pregnancy.

RELATED: Arizona Government Website Misdirects Women on Abortions

During a House Rules Committee debate on Monday regarding the Pain-Capable Unborn Child Protection Act — the restrictive abortion bill for which debate begins today and which would ban procedures nationwide after 20 weeks of pregnancy and effectively dissolve the 23-24 week abortion window provided by Roe v. Wade — Burgess unleashed the following (video below):

This is a subject I know something about ... Watch a sonogram of a 15-week baby, and they have movements that are purposeful. They stroke their face. If they’re a male baby, they may have their hand between their legs. If they feel pleasure, why is it so hard to believe that they could feel pain?

So, this member of the U.S. Congress has now said, on the Congressional record, that male fetuses at 15 weeks into development are consciously touching their tiny fetal penises to give themselves pleasure. And Burgess is stating, on the Congressional record, that we should trust him because of his experience as a doctor. According to the GOP Doctors Caucus website, he has practiced as an OB/GYN for 25 years — 25 years of tiny masturbating fetuses.

RELATED: New Mexico Bill Would Send Rape Victims to Jail for Aborting 'Evidence'

So is he right? Well, sorta ... but not really. In the blurry, ultrasonographic world of masturbating fetuses, the most conclusive finding was in 1996, when two Italian doctors witnessed what they believed was a female fetus purportedly masturbating for 20 minutes and logged their discovery in a letter to The American Journal of Obstetrics and Gynecology. That abstract isn't available online, but their finding has been cited, and previews of the study exist

RELATED: Judith Warner on the Stupak Debate

 

RELATED: Boehner Gets a Challenger from the Right

But that fetus was at 32 weeks, not 15 weeks, as Burgess cited. And at 32 weeks, fetuses are usually around 3.5 pounds. At 15 weeks, fetuses are around 4 inches long and weigh just a few ounces. Presuming the 1996 finding is the norm (and represents a big jump in itself), the research still doesn't give any credence to Burgess's already shocking don't abort fetuses because they're masturbating logic, because the fetus witnessed in 1996 was twice the age Burgess cited. Basically, the masturbating fetus argument does not help anything — and it may undermine Burgess's insistence that fetuses feel pain and pleasure at 15 weeks. 

RELATED: Words, Words, Words: How Akin and the GOP Differ on Abortion

If Burgess wanted to make a point about masturbating fetuses and ban third-trimester abortions, he'd have supporters. ABC News explained in January that both pro-choice supporters (79 percent) and pro-life advocates (96 percent) strongly believe in making abortion illegal in the third trimester. And those third-trimester numbers are very tiny as it is: "In the U.S., 88 percent of abortions are done in the first 12 weeks, according to the Guttmacher Institute; fewer than 1 percent are in the third trimester." ABC News reported.

But that isn't what Burgess and conservatives want. Their restrictive, 20-week ban and attack on Roe v. Wade is expected to pass the House as early as Tuesday, the AP reports. The Democratic-led Senate, of course, is expected to completely ignore the bill, and the Obama administration last night announced a veto threat. Indeed, the only thing that seems to be in question with this bill is which member of the House GOP caucus will try to top Burgess and his masturbating fetuses now that he's topped Rep. Trent Franks, the bill's sponsor, and his "incidence of rape resulting in pregnancy" line from last week.

Here's the video of Burgess at Monday's session — we don't blame you for double-checking:



#2 Julius

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 06:01 PM

Congressman Boner approves this message.



#3 TakeAStepBack

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 06:04 PM

They want to protect the masterbating fetus until it is born so that they can send it to jail for watching porn and masterbating later. it's an excellent way to secure additional funds for the police/prison State. Of course, they would also like the fetus to pay taxes up until it's time for jail.

 

Makes perfect sense to me. :dunno:



#4 jnjn

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 06:18 PM

i don't even know what to say anymore :facepalm:



#5 Tim the Beek

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 06:37 PM

Want to make the case for this using some sort of scientific approach, I'm willing to listen.

This approach makes Rep Burgess nothing but a political hack. IMO.



#6 MeOmYo

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 06:43 PM

I just don't have it in me to read it.  Does this mean people suck?



#7 hippieskichick

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 06:56 PM

Does this mean people suck?

 

 

Well, people do suck, but that's not really an argument, is it? And you don't need any article to tell you that.

 

 

This article is just yet another example of the blithering idiots who get paid to open their mouths and talk.

 

Oh, and make laws that tell smarter people what to do.

 

Yeah.



#8 MeOmYo

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 07:03 PM

ok, I read it and really wish I didn't.  :facepalm:



#9 Tim the Beek

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 07:04 PM

On the other hand, it's clear that when Rep. Burgess is at work, there's prolly always some sorta fetal wankery goin' on.



#10 hippieskichick

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 07:08 PM

ok, I read it and really wish I didn't.   :picardfp:

 

 

A positive spin I like to take on examples of stupiditry such as this is - yep, I'm a pretty smart person after all. Relatively speaking, anyway.

 

There's always a bright side.



#11 Tim the Beek

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 08:19 PM

A positive spin I like to take on examples of stupiditry such as this is - yep, I'm a pretty smart person after all. Relatively speaking, anyway.

 

There's always a bright side.


I think this way...til I think, "how smart am I to live somewhere where these buffoons are in charge?" 



#12 china cat

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 08:25 PM


I think this way...til I think, "how smart am I to live somewhere where these buffoons are in charge?" 

 

well, there is that



#13 china cat

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 08:42 PM

I saw the transcript - he didn't say "masturbate" did he?

 

"This is a subject that I do know something about,” said Burgess, a former OB/GYN. "There is no question in my mind that a baby at 20 weeks after conception can feel pain. The fact of the matter is, I argue with the chairman because I thought the date was far too late. We should be setting this at 15 weeks, 16 weeks."

 

"Watch a sonogram of a 15-week baby, and they have movements that are purposeful,” Burgess continued. “They stroke their face. If they’re a male baby, they may have their hand between their legs. If they feel pleasure, why is it so hard to think that they could feel pain?"

 

 

 

 

The "hands between the legs" comment was not wise (and media is using headlines to generate outrage and obfuscate an ob/gyn's credentials. Having said that, if he really is claiming fetuses at 15 weeks masturbate, and there is no evidence of this, then his credentials should be questioned).  but there is plenty of evidence that fetuses feel pain by 16-20 weeks - he should have stuck with that.

 

 I did find...

 

who knew - female fetuses like their hands between their legs as well :lol:

 

Italian gynecologists Giorgio Giorgi and Marco Siccardi observed via ultrasound a female fetus possibly masturbating and having what appeared to be an orgasm.[32]

 

In 1996 two ob-gyn's in Italy published a letter in the American Journal of OB-GYN. The heart of the matter was this:

We recently observed a female fetus at 32 weeks gestation touching the vuvla with the fingers of the right hand. The caressing movements were centered primarily on the region of the clitoris. Movements stopped after 20 to 40 seconds and started again after a few minutes. Furthermore, these slight touches were repeated and were associated with short, rapid movements of the pelvis and legs. After another break, in addition to this behavior, the fetus contracted the muscles of the trunk and limbs, and then clonicotonic movements [i.e. prolonged spasms] of the whole body followed. Finally she relaxed and rested.

We observed this behaviors for about 20 minutes. The mother was an active and interested witness, conversing with observers about her child's experiences.

They drew the conclusion: "The female sexual response is separate from reproductive functions and doesn't need a full sexual maturity to be explicit".

 

^ Giorgi G, Siccardi M (September 1996). "Ultrasonographic observation of a female fetus' sexual behavior in utero". Am. J. Obstet. Gynecol. 175 (3 Pt 1): 753. PMID 8828451.



#14 Tim the Beek

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 08:51 PM

I saw the transcript - he didn't say "masturbate" did he?...

 

 “...If they’re a male baby, they may have their hand between their legs. If they feel pleasure, why is it so hard to think that they could feel pain?"...

 

The "hands between the legs" comment was not wise (and headlines are clearly using this to generate outrage and obfuscate a ob/gyn's credentials - having said that, if he really is claiming fetuses at 15 weeks masturbate...

 
I'm not sure what else he could have been referring to.

But it would be pretty damned nice if a huge number of people in the legislature on the pro-life side weren't complete hypocrites who didn't consistently make terrible arguments in support of their position. 



#15 china cat

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 08:58 PM

 
I'm not sure what else he could have been referring to.

But it would be pretty damned nice if a huge number of people in the legislature on the pro-life side weren't complete hypocrites who didn't consistently make terrible arguments in support of their position. 

 

well, the "pleasure" comment could have been referencing the sentence before that as well  “They stroke their face. If they’re a male baby, they may have their hand between their legs. If they feel pleasure"        implying that any self touch on any part of the body (including the face) is a form of soothing or pleasuring self.

 

And, I completely agree with your second point. So many who claim to be "pro-life" have no problem killing middle-eastern babies. hypocrites, for sure.  And, yes, the stupidity of some of the arguments is worth... well.... worth being called out as stupid.

 

This congressman may fall into that category, just balancing the perspective in the thread. Again, I agree that comment did not serve his argument - an argument that could have been made on stronger ground