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The Patriot Act: It's Never Gonna Go Away


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#1 vic

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Posted 24 May 2011 - 03:35 PM

A sign of revolutionary times

#2 vic

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Posted 24 May 2011 - 03:41 PM

http://news.yahoo.co.../us_patriot_act

Senate considers Patriot Act despite concerns
ShareretweetEmailPrint Play Video Barack Obama Video:British royals greet Obama Reuters Play Video Barack Obama Video:Obama starts UK visit by meeting the royal newlyweds AFP Play Video Barack Obama Video:A look at the damage caused by flying objects in the tornado in Joplin, MO KVUE-TV Austin By LAURIE KELLMAN, Associated Press Laurie Kellman, Associated Press – Tue May 24, 3:40 am ET
WASHINGTON – The tortoise-like Senate is under uncommon pressure to pass a four-year extension of the anti-terrorist Patriot Act before key provisions expire Friday. But the deadline is even tighter, because President Barack Obama is in Europe.

Any extension passed by the Senate must be sent to the House and passed there, then flown overseas to be signed into law.

So the Senate's deadline for passage is more like midweek. And that's no accident.

Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., who not long ago vowed to have a full week of debate on the Patriot Act extension, has instead backed up the vote against a tighter deadline to limit debate over legislation some say is less necessary now that al-Qaida chief Osama bin Laden is dead.

Another motivator: The Senate's weeklong Memorial Day break begins just after the Patriot Act deadline.

The White House urged the Senate to do what it typically does not: work quickly.

"It is essential to avoid any hiatus" in the law's powers, the Obama administration said in a statement.

But the Senate does not rush, even when it's clear that there probably isn't time for changes. Senators voted 74-8 Monday to begin debate on the bill.

Members of both parties demanded time to talk about their amendments, some of which would require tougher oversight on how the government uses the law's powers. Reid was negotiating Monday on which amendments would be considered, and for how long.

The legislation would extend three expiring provisions until June 1, 2015.

These provisions would allow the government to use roving wiretaps on multiple electronic devices and across multiple carriers and get court-approved access to business records relevant to terrorist investigations. The third, a "lone wolf" provision, permits secret intelligence surveillance of non-U.S. individuals without the government having to show a connection between the target and a specific terrorist group.

From the beginning, the law has been dogged by concerns that it represented a government power grab that could violate people's Fourth Amendment rights against unreasonable searches and seizures. The opposition came from an unlikely alliance of libertarian-leaning conservatives and liberal Democrats who on Monday said they would join forces to limit the law's power.

Some Patriot Act opponents have suggested that in this post-bin Laden world it's time for Congress to reconsider the Patriot Act, written when the terrorist leader was at the peak of his power after the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks on the U.S.

"We were so frightened after 9/11 that we readily gave up these freedoms," said Sen. Rand Paul, R-Ky. "We really should sunset the entire Patriot Act and protect our liberties the way it was intended by our founding fathers."

But the act's supporters warn that al-Qaida splinter groups, spread from Pakistan to the United States and beyond, may try to retaliate for bin Laden's death at the hands of U.S. Navy SEALs.

"We are not out of harm's way, and no one should believe that," Senate Intelligence Chairwoman Dianne Feinstein, D-Calif., said.

Even before Monday's test vote, Senate Judiciary Committee Chairman Patrick Leahy, D-Vt., proposed an amendment that closely tracked a bill his committee passed earlier this year with bipartisan support. Co-sponsored by Paul, the amendment would require that the use of national security letters — documents that allow the government to collect financial and other records without a judge's approval — expire on Dec. 31, 2013, if not renewed by Congress.

The amendment also would require more public disclosure and oversight on the government's use of the letters, and it would cancel the one-year waiting period before a recipient of a letter may challenge a government order to keep it secret.

The Democrats who voted to block the Patriot Act extension are Montana Sens. Max Baucus and Jon Tester as well as Sens. Mark Begich of Alaska and Jeff Merkley of Oregon.

The Republicans who voted with them are Sens. Dean Heller of Nevada, Lisa Murkowski of Alaska and Paul. Also voting no was Independent Sen. Bernie Sanders of Vermont.

#3 TakeAStepBack

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Posted 24 May 2011 - 03:46 PM

How anyone can point to any real change between this administration and the last one, is beyond me. Aside from some cosmetic differences, both run the same policies almost verbatum. :undecided:

#4 seany

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Posted 24 May 2011 - 04:03 PM

I hate to say it, but if Ron Paul were to make it in you'd be disappointed with him 2 yrs later. The realities are beyond the rhetoric. Unless there is a wholesale change bottom to top, you're not going to eliminate cancer. And the current Dick Armey and Koch Bros financed "Tea Party" is not the answer. If anything, the suckers that are buying into that are playing right into the old GOP/RNC/PNAC plans...

#5 Deadshow Dan

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Posted 24 May 2011 - 04:15 PM

How anyone can not see any real change between this administration and the last one, is beyond me.

fixed!

#6 TakeAStepBack

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Posted 24 May 2011 - 04:25 PM

I hate to say it, but if Ron Paul were to make it in you'd be disappointed with him 2 yrs later. The realities are beyond the rhetoric. Unless there is a wholesale change bottom to top, you're not going to eliminate cancer. And the current Dick Armey and Koch Bros financed "Tea Party" is not the answer. If anything, the suckers that are buying into that are playing right into the old GOP/RNC/PNAC plans...


The top to bottom change up seems to be what Paul is offering. Stopping large, intrusive federal government, ending the non-federal, Fed Reserve, stop the imperialistic military-industrial complex and a laundry list of other reasons our country is in a state of failure. Heading quickly towards a state of facsism I might add (if we're not already there).

I dont see any other runner who is willing to even entertain some of these key items that need to be addressed, like 20 years ago or more.

I hate the tea party too. I wish they would go away completely. I almost feel like the group was brought about to end the credibility of the group that wants to see a real structural change take place. Most everything these people have to say is built of fallacy of some type.

#7 TakeAStepBack

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Posted 24 May 2011 - 04:29 PM

The changes you bring up are cosmetic at best.

Added a new war under his belt? Check
Hasn't ended the other two that should have never started? Check
Still allowing the pentagon and the CIA to prop up autocrats and fill their munitions rooms with our weaponry? Check
Patriot Act still there? Check
Tax breaks for the richest social bracket? Check
Willing to stand side by side with big business that side steps their tax obligation and then puts the responsibility on the citizens? Check

And the list goes on and on.....

#8 TheDHJ

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Posted 24 May 2011 - 04:50 PM

Date
Event

44
Theudas declared himself the Messiah, taking 400 people with him into the desert. T beheaded by Roman soldiers. Josephus records this.

53
Even before all the books of the Bible were written, there was talk that Christ's return had already taken place. The Thessalonians panicked on Paul, when they heard a rumor that the day of the Lord was at hand, and they had missed the rapture.

80
Ben Zakkai died about 80, and expected the Messiah about the time of his death

100 -200
Rabbi Eliezer ben Hyrcanus (1-2 Cent) thought the days of the Messiah would last 40 years. Before Bar Kochba the Mess. age was short; longer afterward

130
Rabbi Jose, the Galilean, a contemporary of Hyrcanus and Azariah, thought the Messiah would come in three generations (60 years), after the destruction; namely 130 (Luther Martin, Date Setters, Guardian of Truth, Sept. 15, 1994)

381
Return of Christ; Tichonus a writer of the 4th Cent (Luther Martin, Date Setters, Guardian of Truth, Sept. 15, 1994)

400
Hippolytus "calculated that 5,500 years separated Adam and Christ and that the life of the world was 6,000 six full 'days' of years until the seventh the day of rest." His calculations in 234 indicted there were still two centuries left. (from A History of the End of the World, Rubinsky and Wiseman, 1982)

400
Rabbi Dosa (2-3rd Century) said the Messiah would come at the end of 400 years. This was based (?) on Gen. 15:13 (Luther Martin, Date Setters, Guardian of Truth, Sept. 15, 1994)

435
Messiah comes; Rabbi Judah ha-Nasi (135-220) believed Messiah would come 365 years after Temple destroyed in 70 (Luther Martin, Date Setters, Guardian of Truth, Sept. 15, 1994)

470
Messiah would come; Rabbi Hanina (3rd C), though Messiah would come 400 years after Temple Destruction. (Luther Martin, Date Setters, Guardian of Truth, Sept. 15, 1994)

500
A Roman priest and theologian in the second and third centuries, predicted Christ would return in A.D. 500, based on the dimensions of Noah's ark.

500
Return of Christ; Hyppolytus (170-236) and Lactantius (250-330) said 500 would be the time for the second coming of Christ (Luther Martin, Date Setters, Guardian of Truth, Sept. 15, 1994)

950
Acrostic on the end of the world, predecessor of Celano's "Dies irae," found in a ms. from Aniane (second half of the tenth century, ed. Paulin Blanc,"Nouvelle Prose sur le Dernier Jour, Compos

#9 TakeAStepBack

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Posted 24 May 2011 - 04:52 PM

It was funny the first couple of times.....Now it's just an excuse to inundate a thread.


F-

#10 china cat

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Posted 24 May 2011 - 05:28 PM

watch 60 minutes clip

http://www.cbsnews.c...ated;photovideo

#11 TheDHJ

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Posted 24 May 2011 - 05:28 PM

It was funny the first couple of times.....Now it's just an excuse to inundate a thread.


F-


How come that happens when I post it...but no one says anything when Jenny posts it? :lol::lol:

#12 deadheadskier

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Posted 24 May 2011 - 05:31 PM

The changes you bring up are cosmetic at best.

Added a new war under his belt? Check
Hasn't ended the other two that should have never started? Check
Still allowing the pentagon and the CIA to prop up autocrats and fill their munitions rooms with our weaponry? Check
Patriot Act still there? Check
Tax breaks for the richest social bracket? Check
Willing to stand side by side with big business that side steps their tax obligation and then puts the responsibility on the citizens? Check

And the list goes on and on.....


u forgot the part about his proposed charitable donation of Isreali land :lol:

#13 TakeAStepBack

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Posted 24 May 2011 - 05:34 PM

u forgot the part about his proposed charitable donation of Isreali land :lol:


No comment.

#14 vic

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Posted 24 May 2011 - 06:04 PM

No comment.



evem you have been intimidated into saying that?:dunno:

#15 TakeAStepBack

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Posted 24 May 2011 - 06:14 PM

Intimidated isn't the right word. BTW, I recommend the column I posted in the thread about obama dumping billions in support over the middle east. Last post on page one. Fricking nail in the coffin'd.

#16 Tim the Beek

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Posted 24 May 2011 - 06:24 PM

You trust the government. Well, that was your first mistake.


This.

#17 vic

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Posted 24 May 2011 - 06:32 PM

Intimidated isn't the right word. BTW, I recommend the column I posted in the thread about obama dumping billions in support over the middle east. Last post on page one. Fricking nail in the coffin'd.


i have no qualms pointing out how clear it is that netanyahu has absolutely no desire for peace

#18 TakeAStepBack

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Posted 24 May 2011 - 06:53 PM

i have no qualms pointing out how clear it is that netanyahu has absolutely no desire for peace


Well, that's pretty obvious. But DHS was pointing to the "proposed charitable donation of Israeli land" by Obama. Which is why I had to "no comment'd".