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Are you overcoming your white priviledge?


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#101 BHB

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 12:48 AM

Well, I try not to oppress anyone during my morning commute.

 

Does the lack of doing anything negative equate to doing something positive? :lol:



#102 Ginger Snap

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 12:51 AM

I would guess that everyone here agrees there are many gaps that affect positive life outcomes... as you said... race, religion, when / where you're born and many many others.

 

But after you acknowledge that, what's the best way to move forward? To force silly flow charts on people like TASB posted? Or just letting people try to positively impact their immediate surroundings as they seem fit?

 

We all clearly don't agree on this. Somehow, there are some folks that don;t see that color colors someones life a little differently.



#103 Ginger Snap

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 12:55 AM

Well, I try not to oppress anyone during my morning commute.

 

Does the lack of doing anything negative equate to doing something positive? :lol:

 

I haven't made any points in this entire thread that because one sees white privelage- that they need to do anything about it. But acknowledge it exists for Christsake. ! THIS is why why are stymied in race relations. Because we're all carrying on as if it is actually equal. And it is not. 



#104 BHB

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 12:58 AM

We all clearly don't agree on this. Somehow, there are some folks that don;t see that color colors someones life a little differently.

 

 

 

They may or may not agree... I think almost any person gets a bit defensive if it's presented as 'this is the way you should feel.' I think that's how that article came off. Most people just don't respond well to that.

 

But most people would agree, hopefully, that everyone is deserving of a positive life outcome. I guess that's all I have to say.

 


and this all reminds me of:  :lol:

 



#105 Ginger Snap

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 01:07 AM

I agree with everything you say dude. 

 

And :lol:  Precisely!

 

The term "cracker" that I'm familiar with (they way i understood it growing up)having been raised in Florida meant poor white that didn't own land. Just saying. 



#106 Ginger Snap

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 01:21 AM

cracker ass cracker is a whole different thing from where I grew up-luckily for me I'd say.; 



#107 Java Time

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 01:26 AM

Orrrrrr...maybe youuuuu are all just a bunch of privileged white folk bitchin about how baaaaadd youuu have it :eek1:


For shame privileged white people...

For SHAME!!! :nulo:

#108 roo

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 01:30 AM

I agree with everything you say dude.

And :lol: Precisely!

The term "cracker" that I'm familiar with (they way i understood it growing up)having been raised in Florida meant poor white that didn't own land. Just saying.

The term "Cracker" comes from slavery days. The Cracker was the white guy on the horse who roamed the cotton fields with the whip.

#109 BHB

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 01:36 AM

does being a ginger preclude one from being a cracker?

 

speaking of those gaps...

 

http://www.thesun.co...- years-on.html



#110 Ginger Snap

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 01:44 AM

this is from England. Ginger bullying there is different there than it is here I hear, but a bully is a bully and I say, and my kids do too- call a bully out and don''t ever pretend that you don't see it and when you do you call it out- you acknowledge it, say it's wrong, and remind your peers that it is wrong. I fucking hate bully behavior.



#111 Ginger Snap

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 01:46 AM

The term "Cracker" comes from slavery days. The Cracker was the white guy on the horse who roamed the cotton fields with the whip.

 

 sure does. But it also depends on where you're from. I grew up in Florida, and it means something different to us there. It's more about poverty there. But I know you're right in other places. 



#112 BHB

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 01:47 AM

sounds like your kids are getting some good advice. :)



#113 Ginger Snap

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 01:50 AM

It's the school that started it. Our school system from kindergarten til graduation has zero tolerance policy for bullying. And all kinds of ways to enculturate an intolerance of bullying, and stiff penalties if you are caugth bullying.And they catch EVRYTHING now. It's right on. I don't worry about my kids being bullied, and my son goes out of his way to be an outcast. ;lol



#114 Royal

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 01:57 AM

"I just noticed that there are no black vibe guides"- Marpa



#115 PieDoh

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 03:07 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F0OreuB3u2o&feature=youtube_gdata_player

#116 PieDoh

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 03:12 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=br-Dy3puDoc

#117 In A Silent Way

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 03:20 AM



#118 TakeAStepBack

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 12:57 PM

 

 

Privileges vs. Rights

The notion of white privilege raises the question of the difference between rights and privileges. Lewis Gordon rejects the idea of white privilege, arguing that the privileges from which whites as a group are supposed to benefit are, in fact, social goods to which all people aspire. As such, he writes, they are not privileges:

  • "A privilege is something that not everyone needs, but a right is the opposite. Given this distinction, an insidious dimension of the white-privilege argument emerges. It requires condemning whites for possessing, in the concrete, features of contemporary life that should be available to all, and if this is correct, how can whites be expected to give up such things? Yes, there is the case of the reality of whites being the majority population in all the sites of actual privilege from prestigious universities to golf clubs and boards of directors for most high-powered corporations. But even among whites as a group, how many whites have those opportunities?"[44]

Viewing whites as universally privileged constructs "a reality that has nothing to do with [the] lived experience" of the majority of whites, who themselves do not have access to elite institutions.[44] Their "daily, means-to-means subsistence" is a right, of which it makes no sense to feel guilty.[44] Naomi Zack similarly criticizes the term white privilege as a misunderstanding of the difference between privileges and rights. Discrimination against nonwhites does not create a privilege in the normal sense of the term, a "specifically granted absolute advantage," a "prerogative or exception granted to an individual or special group."[45] In the United States, Zack writes, discussion of "white privilege" distracts from the discussion of social exclusion of nonwhites, which is the origin of racial disparities.

 

Yup.

 

 

According to James Forrest and Kevin Dunn, the privileges of being white might accrue largely to certain white ethnic and cultural groups, as opposed to white people as a whole.[6] Adam A. Powell, Nyla R. Branscombe, and Michael T. Schmitt argue that people in the least successful white ethnic and cultural groups are often the ones that are disadvantaged the most from any affirmative action that attempts to take into account white privilege.[46]

Lawrence Blum, Professor of Philosophy writes that white privilege analysis has been too narrow in its focus. Specifically it has failed to acknowledge important ethnic differences, especially among whites. And it has not adequately distinguished between "spared injustice, unjust enrichment and non-injustice-related" privileges

 

Yup again. Making the argument completely moot that there is a "white" privilege of any kind. That it is a white person who receives this invisible societal benefit based exclusively off skin color. This argument is absolutely terrible, and only goes to prove what I said before. That generalizations of such a group is based purely off one motive and one motive alone - to shame white people for being white. Which, isn't much of a distinction to anything to even call someone white. And worse, to identify them with some privilege they probably never received, making them even more alienated from an already unjust socio-economic system that does, in fact, pay favorite to elitism.

 

As for acknowledging such a thing, I reject the notion based specifically out of life experience. I was not given anything extra in coming to the world. Not better educated parents or a better chance at education, not more space, not better healthcare, not more income and certainly no legislatively bounded affirmative action for my "group".

 

 



#119 In A Silent Way

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 01:31 PM

but ... but ... but ... INVISIBLE BACKPACK™!

 

:panic:



#120 unbroken_chain

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 02:10 PM

* I've never seen or heard of anyone having a black picket fence.

 

* They don't sell products for your "pearly blacks"

 

* You rarely hear of a "Black Sale" at a department store.

 

* "once you go black, you never go back" is a myth.  I go back and forth, unless the black girl leaves and the white (or hispanic) girl remains.

 

* I personally only take my coffee white.

 

* ever been to an airport and hear a reference to "The Black Zone" over the PA?   me either.

 

* bitches would never guzzle black spooge.

 

* I enjoy satire regardless of race, creed or lip size.



#121 BHB

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 02:15 PM

The EDITED is back! :lol:

 

I'd like to think my contributions are what caused your interest to no longer be exhausted in our opinions and banter regarding this subject.  :lol:



#122 PieDoh

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 02:15 PM

et cetera...
black as a sheet....

black knuckled driver


black tailed deer...


snow fall so bad it's blackout conditions....

#123 unbroken_chain

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 02:19 PM

ok, being serious. 

 

There is white privelege. 

 

There is black privelege too.... in it's own cultural situation.   When being served in jail, the black brothers hooked up the other black dudes with double servings. 

Whitey got none :cry:

 

 

 

one time at work a co-worker of color said "You're doing that cuz I'm black" about sort of a "sanction" I had imposed on him.

 

my response, loud - and met by applause from the whole dept 

 

"no, I'm doing that cuz you are an asshole"



#124 tiedyesky

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 03:10 PM

Soooo...am I in trouble for hiding behind a white baby-doll profile pic? :undecided:



#125 DF

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 03:30 PM

I like this discussion :)

 

The concept of white privs is new to me, I never consider skin color to be a marker

for how one is treated or having more opportunities.

 

As stated in previous arguments in this thread, behavior and choices dictate how people respond to you,

and where you are on the socio-economic scale. 

 

Yes, there are situations where being white will open doors for you, the same goes for being a person of color.

 

My goal is to dismantle  stereotypes. Be polite to cops, keep your damn pants up and drop the ghetto slang.

you are more than what is expected of you.  It's all about how you conduct yourself.



#126 Spidergawd

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 03:44 PM

We all clearly don't agree on this. Somehow, there are some folks that don;t see that color colors someones life a little differently.

 

Interesting that, in my experience, those that feel that way are pretty much exclusively white.  I think that starts to get to the root of the inherent bias in favor of white people in this country.



#127 Joker

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 04:10 PM

0.jpg



#128 JBetty

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 04:10 PM

Interesting that, in my experience, those that feel that way are pretty much exclusively white.  I think that starts to get to the root of the inherent bias in favor of white people in this country.

 

 

Agreed and I've observed the same.

White and predominantly male. 

Hmmmmmm......



#129 TakeAStepBack

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 04:17 PM

Well, that's a few more for the privileged white male fallacy.



#130 BHB

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 04:24 PM

TASB, I'm not sure anyone is saying you personally had unfair privileges.... but would you agree that the phenomenon does exist in the US for some percentage of white males?



#131 TakeAStepBack

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 04:39 PM

Well, Im personally a white male. What I am not, and what many others just like me are not (at least from the erroneous position of a catch all "white" ), is "privileged" with an elite inheritance in a socio-ecnomic sense. That is the reality of the problem. As our system is built to favor those who are. And being that the US as a whole is predominately white (I read 75%, although "white" on its very face lacks context and character by lumping lots of other particulars together), those are the ones who find themselves with access to elite institutions and what some might call "privilege".

 

But by no means is this status white, or male exclusive.

 

It's a very derogatory way of seeing things in my view. It's very braod stroked and lacks the intimate details of this system that are so desperately needed, as to not lump people together that absolutely do not fit the description of what white privilege, or white male privilege tries to pass off.



#132 TakeAStepBack

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 04:41 PM

but ... but ... but ... INVISIBLE BACKPACK™!

 

:panic:

 

This is what's in my "backpack":

 

1. I can, if I wish, arrange to be in the company of people of my race most of the time.

 2. If I should need to move, I can be pretty sure of renting or purchasing housing in an area that I can afford and in which I would want to live.

 3. I can be pretty sure that my neighbors in such a location will be neutral or pleasant to me.

 4. I can go shopping alone most of the time, pretty well assured that I will not be followed or harassed.

 5. I can turn on the television or open to the front page of the paper and see people of my race widely represented.

 6. When I am told about our national heritage or about civilization, I am shown that people of my color made it what it is.

 7. I can be sure that my children will be given curricular materials that testify to the existence of their race.

 8. If I want to, I can be pretty sure of finding a publisher for this piece on white privilege.

 9. I can go into a music shop and count on finding the music of my race represented, into a supermarket and find the staple foods that fit with my cultural traditions, into a hairdresser's shop and find someone who can deal with my hair.

 10. Whether I use checks, credit cards, or cash, I can count on my skin color not to work against the appearance of financial reliability.

 11. I can arrange to protect my children most of the time from people who might not like them.

 12. I can swear, or dress in second-hand clothes or not answer letters without having people attribute these choices to the bad morals, the poverty, or the illiteracy of my race.

 13. I can speak in public to a powerful male group without putting my race on trial.

 14. I can do well in a challenging situation without being called a credit to my race.

 15. I am never asked to speak for all the people of my racial group.

 16. I can remain oblivious of the language and customs of persons of color, who constitute the worlds' majority, without feeling in my culture any penalty for such oblivion.

 17. I can criticize our government and talk about how much I fear its policies and behavior without being seen as a cultural outsider.

 18. I can be sure that if I ask to talk to "the person in charge" I will be facing a person of my race.

 19. If a traffic cop pulls me over, or if the IRS audits my tax return, I can be sure I haven't been singled out because of my race.

 20. I can easily buy posters, postcards, picture books, greeting cards, dolls, toys, and children's magazines featuring people of my race.

 21. I can go home from most meetings or organizations I belong to feeling somewhat tied in rather than isolated, out of place, outnumbered, unheard, held at a distance, or feared.

 22. I can take a job with an affirmative action employer without having coworkers on the job suspect that I got it because of race.

 23. I can choose public accommodations without fearing that people of my race cannot get in or will be mistreated in the places I have chosen.

 24. I can be sure that if I need legal or medical help my race will not work against me.

 25. If my day, week, or year is going badly, I need not ask of each negative episode or situation whether it has racial overtones.

 26. I can chose blemish cover or bandages in flesh color that more or less matches my skin.

:facepalm:



#133 Joker

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 04:49 PM

I've caught breaks for my color and been screwed over for my color. I'd bet most men could say the same thing no matter what the color of their skin.

 

As far as the original post goes all I got is...lolberals



#134 TakeAStepBack

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 05:01 PM

http://www.endhomele...qs#demographics

 

What do the demographics of homelessness look like?
Data indicates that the average homeless person is a middle-aged African American man, but the chart below provides more insight into the demographics of the homeless population in the U.S. Below is a chart with common demographics from the 2010 Annual Homeless Assessment Report, published in June 2011.

 

 

 

Percentage of All Sheltered Homeless Population

Percentage of Individuals

Percentage of Persons in Families

Gender

 

 

 

Male

62.3%

71.3%

22.1% 

 

Female

37.7%

28.7%

77.9%

Race

 

 

 

White,

Non-Hispanic

41.6%

47.2%

31%

White, Hispanic

9.7%

8.5%

12%

Black or

African American

37%

34.5%

42%

Other Single Race

4.5%

3.5%

6.4%

Multiple Races

7.2%

6.4%

8.5%

Age

 

 

 

Under Age 18

21.8%

1.4%

59.3%

18 to 30

23.5%

23.7%

23.2%

31 – 50

37%

48.4%

16.2%

51 – 61

14.9%

22.3%

1.2%

62 and older

2.8%

4.2%

0.1%

Household Size

 

 

 

1 person

63%

97.2%

0%

2 people

10.1%

2.6%

24.1%

3 people

10.4%

0.2%

29.3%

4 people

8.1%

0%

22.8%

5 or more people

8.4%

0%

23.9%

Disabled Population

 

 

 

Disabled (adults only)

36.8%

41.8%

15.3%

 

 

What say you about this? How is it, that men of my broad age group find themsleves as the dominant homeless factor? Is this white male privilege?

 

What strikes interestingly here is the flip form individuals homeless, to families homeless. Nucleur familia breakdown, perhaps? :dunno:



#135 Spidergawd

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 05:06 PM

Well, Im personally a white male. What I am not, and what many others just like me are not (at least from the erroneous position of a catch all "white" ), is "privileged" with an elite inheritance in a socio-ecnomic sense. That is the reality of the problem. As our system is built to favor those who are. And being that the US as a whole is predominately white (I read 75%, although "white" on its very face lacks context and character by lumping lots of other particulars together), those are the ones who find themselves with access to elite institutions and what some might call "privilege".

 

But by no means is this status white, or male exclusive.

 

It's a very derogatory way of seeing things in my view. It's very braod stroked and lacks the intimate details of this system that are so desperately needed, as to not lump people together that absolutely do not fit the description of what white privilege, or white male privilege tries to pass off.

 

 

FTR, I think the article is unrealistic and a bit silly.  HOWEVER, there is absolutely a pro-white bias in the country.  Call it "privilege" if you want, I suppose.  As a white male, I'm not all that surprised that you don't believe in it.  If you weren't white, my guess is that your position would be significantly different.  From birth on, you've never actually experienced the negative aspects of this bias, only the positive ones, as you were lucky enough to win the genetic lottery.  I 100% disagree that it doesn't exist.  That perspective is a uniquely white male phenomenon. 

 

Your following post, with the list...  Are you disputing that those points are real?



#136 TakeAStepBack

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 05:13 PM

FTR, I think the article is unrealistic and a bit silly.  HOWEVER, there is absolutely a pro-white bias in the country.  Call it "privilege" if you want, I suppose.  As a white male, I'm not all that surprised that you don't believe in it.  If you weren't white, my guess is that your position would be significantly different.  From birth on, you've never actually experienced the negative aspects of this bias, only the positive ones, as you were lucky enough to win the genetic lottery.  I 100% disagree that it doesn't exist.  That perspective is a uniquely white male phenomenon. 

 

Your following post, with the list...  Are you disputing that those points are real?

 

An you, as a white male, claim to understand this so called bias while never "experiencing" it from the position of which you claim it exists. Does the irony grab you?



#137 Spidergawd

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 05:17 PM

Never claimed to experience it.  I'm as lucky with the genetic draw as you.  But I DO acknowledge it and realize that it's a real phenomenon.



#138 TakeAStepBack

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 05:32 PM

Your following post, with the list...  Are you disputing that those points are real?

 

No, I find it quite contrasting to the current topic. 47% of homeless individuals are "white" males between the ages of 31-50. Which would seem sort of odd for a grasp at the "phenomenon of "pro-white bias" and moreso, the white male privilege bias.

 

At the same time the female seems to take the roll of families subjected to homelessness in total ( not counting any race, but it appears that black women have the largest percentage of). Which is where my :dunno: questioning came into play regarding nucleur family.



#139 BHB

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 05:47 PM

Doesn't it have something to do with there being way more white males in the US than black males?



#140 TakeAStepBack

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 05:56 PM

It could. The report actually says that the average homeless individual is a black middle aged male. But after several peels through the report, I don't know how they came to that conclusion per say. Perhaps based on percentage of population as you indicated.

 

My pont was, and still is, that I think the situation is far more complex than slapping a "white privilege" label on it and sending it off to the echo chamber.



#141 KrisNYG

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 06:02 PM



#142 Java Time

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 06:11 PM

in customs at airports...whitey just presses a green button saying he is not carrying contraband...everyone else (our latin/spanish descendant friends)  must go through a different checkpoint and do not have the same option.

 

oh and getting chicks...yeah...whitey fares well in South and central American countries :drool:

 

 

OK, maybe you'd like to describe this privilege.

 

:lol:   I bet :lol:

 

I'm just freshly back from the Sonora region of Mexico.  In Guaymas and Hermisillo, in the Mexican checkpoints headed to the border, if you are "white"  (I'm ore olive, but I'm white in this context) if you aren't aware of white privilege you're kidding yourself.

 

Same thing here in the state of NY.

 

As well as from sea to shining sea



#143 unbroken_chain

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 06:13 PM

TASB, I'm not sure anyone is saying you personally had unfair privileges.... but would you agree that the phenomenon does exist in the US for some percentage of white males?

 

 

this is a "Yale Class Reunion Photo" class of 81

 

Y81-25Reunion.jpg

 

a lotta salt.

 

Light on the pepper.    

 

why is that?



#144 elder

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 06:18 PM

I just see a bunch of dorks looking up at a camera



#145 BHB

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 06:21 PM

:lol: I could give 100 different answers but they'd all just be guesses.

 

Maybe the Yale board of admissions is full of racists. Or maybe black people think Yale is lame.

 

front row... 9 guys in from the right... is that Anthony Bourdain??!!?



#146 TakeAStepBack

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 06:24 PM

74461_10151342945518671_1185742908_n.jpg



#147 TakeAStepBack

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 06:26 PM

this is a "Yale Class Reunion Photo" class of 81

 

Y81-25Reunion.jpg

 

a lotta salt.

 

Light on the pepper.    

 

why is that?

 

Yale is an elite institution. It's selective. Then there is the difference in population size. Then there is the economics of attending such an elite school. What i don't see, is a bunch of white people in the photo.



#148 TakeAStepBack

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 06:27 PM

And the women! there are a good amount of them. WTF? Are we white males slacking on our privilege or what?



#149 In A Silent Way

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 06:27 PM

This is a Boardie Picnic 2011.

 

285365_10150734606940150_8274502_n.jpg

 

a lotta salt.

 

Light on the pepper.    

 

why is that?



#150 TEO

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 06:43 PM

How are you overcoming your white male package?

 

Perhaps jnjn should field this one?