295 replies to this topic

[Ginger Snap]

Sounds like a mighty fine way to spend a friday night you lucky girl. 

[Ravn]

oh pfffft

 

I do that for fun

 

I have no guilt

 

any one who suggests so can kiss my overly large lily white butt

[TakeAStepBack]

Sure I fall into middle class- because I come from a family that was all educated in college. And white. Every. Last. One of them. How many black folk you know can say that? I married beneath me I'm not proud to say it but it's true- racist son of a bitch- his family is good working class folk, not a one of em went to college. 

 

Which contention did I make that you quarrel? 

 

I certainly never argued I agree with anything VISTA has to say- I was talking about "white privilege" as I experience it. And also some data facts like (I'll repeat myself here) infant mortality rates being lower for white babies, overall mortality ages being lower for BLACK adults: more miscarriages from black mothers; higher rates of obesity among black youth- what the fuck more do you want dude? Incarcerations, murders, felons, 

 

I'm not talking about loathing- I'm talking about acknowledging race is a fucking factor in outcomes. Fucking libertarian I'll shoot you. 

 

So race is a factor. In that factor, can you describe this privilege that leads "white" people to have lower mortality rates?

What about murder, incarcerations and felons. Are these stats higher for African Americans because of "white privilege"? Can you describe this privilege?

[Ginger Snap]

So race is a factor. In that factor, can you describe this privilege that leads "white" people to have lower mortality rates?

What about murder, incarcerations and felons. Are these stats higher for African Americans because of "white privilege"? Can you describe this privilege?

 

Higher income, education, better access to healthcare, less stress, more access to spaces that provide a chance for fitness- shall I go on? Really? 

 

Dude- come read my shelf. I'll read yours. I dare you. 

 

It's fine- I don't know why you have grasped onto this term "white privilege  and it seems like you're only giving it your own meaning and not being open to other interpretations to what that means. Dude.

[TakeAStepBack]

Higher income, education, better access to healthcare, less stress, more access to spaces that provide a chance for fitness- shall I go on? Really? 

 

Dude- come read my shelf. I'll read yours. I dare you. 

 

It's fine- I don't know why you have grasped onto this term "white privilege  and it seems like you're only giving it your own meaning and not being open to other interpretations to what that means. Dude.

 

White privilege comes from the VISTA organization, not from me. They have workshops, bracelets and graphs describing how a "nonracist white" can overcome their "privilege". How to go about humbly addressing this privilege and tests to see your bias.

 

Can you describe how "white" people receive this privilege to higher education, better healthcare, lower stress, more access to "space" that provides better fitness? jnjn would smack you. Three times a week she spends forty five minutes in a space no bigger than a jail cell working on her fitness. We live in a 500 sq. ft. apt. and by demographc barely breach what constitutes a "middle class" income.

[Tim the Beek]

There's a big difference between having awareness, and walking around with a label on your wrist and asking people of a different color to hold you accountable.

Humility, good. Humiliation, not so much.

 

IMO.

[Ginger Snap]

Or perhaps you mean something a little more central to the construct of a black mind or a white mind that would make one act they way they do,make decisions they do, which ultimately affect outcomes? There's a whole power differential we can talk about, but if we are going to talk about power and race we first have to talk about power and gender because the difference happens there first...there's a whole way of learning and listening and perceiving the world that in all kinds of ways:says- shut the fuck up- we don't want to hear from you- you aren't as important- what you have to say doesn't matter- stop your whining- stop your complaining- take what you get and like it- and if you put up a beef we'll beat you. Do what I say. You don't matter.

 

Tell me that America is separate from all the experiences we know are commonplace for women all across the world. Sure- we got a 20 year modern lead. Awesome. 

 

Race is just the next difference in line man- all kinds of ways we have to designate ourselves as different...tell me you hear all that bullshit in your ears all the time and you aint gonna get so down you believe it- and then- you teach your kids it-cause you don't know any different.work hard and then put that kid up against the child that has had everyone in her life say she could do whatever she wanted o long as she worked hard, showed up...

 

sure theirs a socioeconomic thing to it that crosses race- but it isn't so pronounced as some other differences. 

[TakeAStepBack]

Well, that was a lot of nonanswer.

 

 

Maybe what we need is the MISTA organization. For males, lets start with the "white" ones since they're really not an AA group, and how they should recognize their privilege.

[Ginger Snap]

White privilege comes from the VISTA organization, not from me. They have workshops, bracelets and graphs describing how a "nonracist white" can overcome their "privilege". How to go about humbly addressing this privilege and tests to see your bias.

 

Can you describe how "white" people receive this privilege to higher education, better healthcare, lower stress, more access to "space" that provides better fitness? jnjn would smack you. Three times a week she spends forty five minutes in a space no bigger than a jail cell working on her fitness. We live in a 500 sq. ft. apt. and by demographc barely breach what constitutes a "middle class" income.

Again,we're not talking about income, we're talking about class. Get it straight. 

[Ginger Snap]

wow. you are a EDITED

[TakeAStepBack]

You put higher income at the beginning of the post.

 

I dont think im going to get any answer here, so im throwing int he towel. Julius already took the responsibility for slavery and racism, so lets all just stretch him and carry on until the next time we need to demonize someone or a group.

 

[Ginger Snap]

He's still on VISTA. I'm sorry for him. :lol; I thought we cleared up a page back the article was dumb.

[TakeAStepBack]

wow. you are a EDITED. 

 
You're making one hell of a convincing argument here.

[Ginger Snap]

You're a bully- and If we were face to face I'd kstill kick your ass. 

[Ginger Snap]

Okay Okay- I get it- I just experienced the devolution of internet banter. ::bows to the left: :bows to the right: 

[Ginger Snap]

still a EDITED.

[concert andy]

No way, man! All "whites" need to recognize their privilege and brand themselves for political gain. Let me know when you find that "privilege".

 

 

Found it:

 

[roo]

Werent FREE boat rides "home" offered and noone really took them so they stopped? Must not be so bad around here.
Shit.. I've sat next to direct decendants at weddings with the numbers tattoo'ed on their forearm. WHERES THEIR RESTITUTION!!?

Hey Wisconsin.. Go Fuck Yourself. When your done ,do it again. Then kill yourself.

[Deadshow Dan]

This is quite interesting.

  I bet

 

I'm just freshly back from the Sonora region of Mexico.  In Guaymas and Hermisillo, in the Mexican checkpoints headed to the border, if you are "white"  (I'm ore olive, but I'm white in this context) if you aren't aware of white privilege you're kidding yourself.

 

Same thing here in the state of NY.

 

As well as from sea to shining sea

[TakeAStepBack]

  I bet

 

I'm just freshly back from the Sonora region of Mexico.  In Guaymas and Hermisillo, in the Mexican checkpoints headed to the border, if you are "white"  (I'm ore olive, but I'm white in this context) if you aren't aware of white privilege you're kidding yourself.

 

Same thing here in the state of NY.

 

As well as from sea to shining sea

 

 

OK, maybe you'd like to describe this privilege.

[TEO]

I don't think it's about condoning self loathing.
It's more like mental excercises to encourage additional ways of thinking.
Remember this is lilly white Wisconsin where people can go their entire lives interacting only with other Caucasians.

Yep, sometimes it seems we are so blinded we cannot see past our own to other's realities.

[TEO]

OK, maybe you'd like to describe this privilege.

Opportunity could be considered a privilege.

[Deadshow Dan]

OK, maybe you'd like to describe this privilege.

maybe

 

But really it's so crystal clear.  And let's not get your thread moved  

[Deadshow Dan]

ya know, especially with TEO snooping around

[TakeAStepBack]

http://en.wikipedia....White_privilege

 

White privilege (or white skin privilege) refers to societal advantages that white people are argued to benefit from beyond those commonly experienced by people of color in the same social, political, or economic spaces (nation, community, workplace, income, etc).^[1] The term connotes both obvious and less obvious unspoken advantages that white individuals may not recognize they have, which distinguishes it from overt bias or prejudice.^[2] These include cultural affirmations of one's own worth; greater presumed social status; and freedom to move, buy, work, play, and speak freely.^[3] The concept of white privilege also implies the right to assume the universality of one's own experiences, marking others as different or exceptional while perceiving oneself as normal. It can be compared and/or combined with the concept of male privilege.

Academic perspectives such as critical race theory and whiteness studies use the concept of "white privilege" to analyze how racism and racialized society affect the lives of white individuals. The term itself is most often used in North America and English-speaking countries with histories of racial stratification after colonialism, such as South Africa^[4] and Australia.

 

 

Cool. I'll have to read up on this some more so i can find the privilege. I'm hoping for cash money, but it's probably something else.

[TakeAStepBack]

By all means, this thread should be moved. And I'd love to hear your answer. I'm feeling quite ignorant about the white privilege. Especially being "white" and all.

 

I actually just went looking for this thread in P&R. This IS political.

[Deadshow Dan]

Yeah, who is the idiot who put it here?  

[TakeAStepBack]

Psychological wage

Many analyses of white privilege interpret "whiteness" as an intangible economic good. In his 1935 Black Reconstruction in America, W. E. B. Du Bois first described the "psychological wages" of whiteness:

It must be remembered that the white group of laborers, while they received a low wage, were compensated in part by a sort of public and psychological wage. They were given public deference and titles of courtesy because they were white. They were admitted freely with all classes of white people to public functions, public parks, and the best schools. The police were drawn from their ranks, and the courts, dependent on their votes, treated them with such leniency as to encourage lawlessness. Their vote selected public officials, and while this had small effect upon the economic situation, it had great effect upon their personal treatment and the deference shown them. White schoolhouses were the best in the community, and conspicuously placed, and they cost anywhere from twice to ten times as much per capita as the colored schools. The newspapers specialized on news that flattered the poor whites and almost utterly ignored the Negro except in crime and ridicule.^[10]

[TakeAStepBack]

Yeah, who is the idiot who put it here?  

 

Well, I wouldn't go name calling like others, but it was my mistake to not put it where it belonged.

Alas, I've exhausted my interest in your opinions and banter regarding this subject. If we could do it without the denigration that would be swell, but my expectation are of course slanted.

[Java Time]

Woo-hoo...just got my white band delivered...and surprisingly it came with a white hood and robe...and some literature that appears to be German...

weird freebies right?

[Deadshow Dan]

I hope you know I kid when I wrote idiot.  That was the purpose of the

[Ginger Snap]

By all means, this thread should be moved. And I'd love to hear your answer. I'm feeling quite ignorant about the white privilege. Especially being "white" and all.

 

I actually just went looking for this thread in P&R. This IS political.

 

It's not political it's cultural. 

[In A Silent Way]

Woo-hoo...just got my white band delivered...and surprisingly it came with a white hood and robe...and some literature that appears to be German...

weird freebies right?

 

All I got was this yellow star.

[concert andy]

Opportunity could be considered a privilege.

 

 

I think this sums it up perfectly.

 

If you can not get in the proverbial or literal door to discuss opportunities because of your skin color, regardless of the position, then there is some truth to white privledge.  But as I stated earlier, life is what you make of it. 

 

Actions speak louder than words.

[concert andy]

All I got was this yellow star.

 

 

All I got was this 

[Jwheelz]

My feeling:

 

White people definitely have some things that most of us take for granted that many of us don't even realize are denied in our society to other racial groups. Making some effort to understand what these are and being aware of how those might make you interact with groups that you may not have spend time around (my town was 95% white growing up), and how that could impact others' perceptions of you is probably a good idea.

 

That being said, I've always found corporate diversity things like the chart from "beyond diversity" don't really do anything to make people more sensitive in a positive way but rather make people overly aware and overcompensate for issues. I was never more offended working at a large corporation than when we all had to sit through the diversity training video specifically focusing on disability. I wanted to scream how completely incorrect and insensitive the materials really were. I never encountered more horrible misconceptions and stereotypes than I did from the actual training materials in that entire company. And to make it worse I was openly discriminated against in the company anyway.

 

Conclusion:

 

It's definitely easier on a societywide level to be white, with the caveat that there are obviously exceptions to that.

 

-and-

 

Corporate diversity training =

[Eco]

Lol, Jordan, I have sat through some of those type of classes with people that are on the topic that can only do the palm to face plant and mumble this is so wrong.  Actually, retract the "lol" from my statement, it was not a funny time and rather a hurtful time for those that attended who were being talked about. 

[unbroken_chain]

Show me. Fucking Popeye motherfucker- show me. 

 

I could prolly drizzles some into a lil sample jar... if that's what u mean.

 

hell I could put the jar a foot or two away.

[Java Time]

All I got was this yellow star.

I wanna laugh and cry with you but the privileges I receive for being a WASP or WASM as it were may come across as condescending to you and others that haven't received all the perks I have.

Some of those perks are...

Honorably discharged from Navy: denied unemployment cuz I only served 3 yrs 11 mos and 18 days and not 4 years
Denied GSL because my folks earned 40k/yr combined with 5 kids and alimony and child support payments. My dad on S.S. for blindness Did not count.

Yes...I've enjoyed the perks of my pastyness

[Ginger Snap]

I could prolly drizzles some into a lil sample jar... if that's what u mean.

 

hell I could put the jar a foot or two away.

 

Come on. I thought we were friends. 

[roo]

My Graduating class sent a Black Kid to Harvard. A Chinese Kid to Yale (our validictorian).
Me..? Im "white" and went to jail. yay privledge. These are the results of our choices and desires for a future ,race played no role because i had the same opportunities ,i just didnt take advantage of them.

Concerning my wayward ways i have first hand seen cops ,correctional officers and sheriffs treat different races differently.

[BHB]

what is to call someone an EDITED?  I'm gonna start using this.

 

other than that I don't know... there's always going to be more privileged and less privileged people all around you. I had nothing to do with their situation in life. Like Roo said.... work hard, make the best of the opportunities you do have and hope for the best.

[Ginger Snap]

My Graduating class sent a Black Kid to Harvard. A Chinese Kid to Yale (our validictorian).
Me..? Im "white" and went to jail. yay privledge. These are the results of our choices and desires for a future ,race played no role because i had the same opportunities ,i just didnt take advantage of them.

Concerning my wayward ways i have first hand seen cops ,correctional officers and sheriffs treat different races differently.

how so?

[Ginger Snap]

I'm sorry but I just do not agree that "race played no role" when I see data about positive life outcomes fall so much shorter for minorities. To believe so I would have to accept that they are some how less able, less competent, maybe even love their kids less, make poorer choices, simply based on color. I'm not going to do that.

[Ginger Snap]

Sure none of us sees the injustice- why would we- we're all white!. Doesn't mean it doesn't fucking happen. 

[BHB]

I think a lot of us see the injustice (and the history of it). But seeing it and taking personal responsibility to make amends for something you didn't do is a different story.

 

If you chose to help people who you feel are underprivileged, that's a great thing but doesn't mean people should feel obligated to just because you're white.

 

What about all the non-race related injustices in the world?

[Ginger Snap]

I think a lot of us see the injustice (and the history of it). But seeing it and taking personal responsibility to make amends for something you didn't do is a different story.

 

If you chose to help people who you feel are underprivileged, that's a great thing but doesn't mean people should feel obligated to just because you're white.

 

What about all the non-race related injustices in the world?

 

"If you chose to help people who you feel are underprivileged, that's a great thing but doesn't mean people should feel obligated to just because you're white."

 

I'm not talking about "helping" underprivileged. I;m talking about acknowledging that there still remain gaps in positive life outcomes, and some of that can be based on race.  Who is talking about obligation? 

 

"What about all the non-race related injustices in the world?"

 

What about them? Like I said- race is only ONE way to identify difference and often that difference is deemed less than. You want to talk about women? Let's talk about the oppression of women. I can sink my teeth into that. Want to talk about religion? Nigerian Christians are treated very differently than Nigerian Muslims. What exactly are you asking? 

 

There;s something called the global north and the global south- the south being darker- and also having less power, wealth, and prestige...sure the powers that be are finding a way to bend us all over- but what makes you think our global issues don't have anything to do with race? Genocide in Africa, girls sold into slavery in Asia- is it on the same scale as it is in european or "white" countries? No it's not. Guess what- race matters globally too. Went to Bosnia but not the sudan. Come on- they're just Africans!

[BHB]

I would guess that everyone here agrees there are many gaps that affect positive life outcomes... as you said... race, religion, when / where you're born and many many others.

 

But after you acknowledge that, what's the best way to move forward? To force silly flow charts on people like TASB posted? Or just letting people try to positively impact their immediate surroundings as they seem fit?

[Ginger Snap]

Maybe that's the crux- acknowledgeing "white privilege" does not necessarily mean needing to do anything about it. That's what the article says..that's not what I'm asking- .How does it hurt you to acknowledge that he fact that youre a white man in america means you have a lot better life right out of the gate than the vast majority of the world cost you? As if it's a secret!

[Ginger Snap]

I would guess that everyone here agrees there are many gaps that affect positive life outcomes... as you said... race, religion, when / where you're born and many many others.

 

But after you acknowledge that, what's the best way to move forward? To force silly flow charts on people like TASB posted? Or just letting people try to positively impact their immediate surroundings as they seem fit?

 

Now we're getting somewhere. Sure. What does "positive impact" mean for you? Is that important to you?(maybe it's not- and that's okay too I'm really just asking.) Which surroundings? your neighborhood?Your town? Your government? I'm really just asking.