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Documentary Club: Season 2, Episode 6: Plug & Pray


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#1 TEO

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Posted 12 March 2013 - 04:15 PM

Plug & Pray via Netflix

 

 

If robot technology continues at its current pace, soon we'll be sharing the planet with machines as intelligent as humans. Experts from a variety of fields speak to the promises and pitfalls of such a world in this documentary by Jens Schanze.

 

 

Inspired by discussion here:  http://www.gathering...-healing-chips/



#2 Tim the Beek

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Posted 16 March 2013 - 04:51 PM

We just watched this...thoughts later, but very glad we watched it. :)



#3 hoagie

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Posted 16 March 2013 - 07:47 PM



#4 Jabadoodle

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 01:44 AM

* I thought the old German guy was wrong about almost everything.

 

* I’m not concerned that there will be a Terminator “rise of the machines”, at least not for a long time. If it ever does happen, as a carbon based form of life and a human, I have a preference for my own kind and would strive to have us persist. Still, I find nothing inherently wrong with electronic life. The universe is a big game of hide and seek where the universe is seeking (becoming aware of) itself. If electronic consciousness or life is part of that, so be it. From that frame of reference I think it’s perfectly wonderful.


* The doc mentioned one of my heroes, Daniel Dennett. His books Consciousness Explained and Darwin’s Dangerous Idea are among my favorites.

 

The thing I liked most was that they mentioned research that shows that the contours of a consciousness is inextricably linked to the form or the physical body it’s in. I have thought this idea for a long while but almost never see it anywhere else. I didn’t know there was research showing truth to it.

 

Taking that further, I believe an electronic consciousness will never be human because it won’t have a human body or human brain. It may well be able to perform all the functions of humans. It might even be “alive”, but it won’t be human.

Which brings us to this question: Can something be “alive” or even conscious if it can’t die? If it’s entire brain, both the programming, it’s data/memory, and it’ internal state can be saved and restored, it can’t die. If it’s body is all mechanical and reproducible, it can’t die. ~ If the details of consciousness are dependent upon the type of brain & body, and the type of brain and body a thing has can’t die – it may be fundamentally different from anything we call “conscious” or “alive”.

 

Which brings us to...Kurzweil’s thoughts about living long enough to live forever. I do believe that advancements will eventually have humans living for hundreds of years. This could mean a huge change in how we are conscious. Imagine if you had hundreds of years to really get to understand the world, understand others, grab knowledge. Sure, plenty may still waste the experience as many do the decades we get today. But surely other’s would plumb spiritual depths heretofore unknown. – Or at least critical masses of populations might reach the depths only a few have known up until now.

 

The more immediate fear...is that advances in human-computer synthesis might lead to greater divides among people. The rich could afford devices that help them think better, sense in more detail, live longer, be stronger. The poorest could be given only the systems that help them work harder and ruin their bodies in the name of production. Monsanto could be patenting those blood cells that are 100 times better at delivering oxygen – and making them into terminating blood cells. You want to breath the polluted air or be able to get that job you need, well you’ll be needing to pay us $2000/month for the patented blood you need. Etc.

 

** EDIT TO ADD: The legal & moral groundwork we do today on seeds and patenting life will have huge implications in the future.

 

Had more to say but can’t think of it now...

 

Good doc overall, though lots of scenes of “nothing” could have been cut out and saved us all 20 minutes of our lives with no loss of anything.



#5 Jabadoodle

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 01:56 AM

By the way: I think it's mentioned in her that some things are not natural. Everything is natural at some level.

 

My next-next career is going to be Robot Psychologist.

 


 



#6 u.s.blues

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 03:17 PM

Good doc overall, though lots of scenes of “nothing” could have been cut out and saved us all 20 minutes of our lives with no loss of anything.

 

i thought so too.  i did enjoy the philosophical questions raised.  i do however, feel skeptical that machines will ever be completely alive. 



#7 TEO

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 07:08 PM

Seems this technology is enabling us to have less and less human contact all the time, as well as depersonalize war.  Interesting take on extending life, seems there are people who think they want to live forever/are afraid to die.



#8 hoagie

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 12:54 PM

By the way: I think it's mentioned in her that some things are not natural. Everything is natural at some level.

 

My next-next career is going to be Robot Psychologist.

 


 

 

Even Monsanto bio-engineering seeds.  



#9 hoagie

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 12:56 PM

Seems this technology is enabling us to have less and less human contact all the time, as well as depersonalize war.  Interesting take on extending life, seems there are people who think they want to live forever/are afraid to die.

 

I see an incredible parallel between where we are heading technologically, and what is described in the Mahabharata...



#10 Tim the Beek

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 02:17 PM

Seems this technology is enabling us to have less and less human contact all the time, as well as depersonalize war.  Interesting take on extending life, seems there are people who think they want to live forever/are afraid to die.

 

This.



#11 Jabadoodle

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 02:25 PM

By the way: I think it's mentioned in her that some things are not natural. Everything is natural at some level.

 

Even Monsanto bio-engineering seeds.  


Yes. Depends on the frame of reference. In some ways it's as natural as anything
else. As it is also natural that there is resistance to that seed and those business
practices. It's all happening, Baby. 

 



 



#12 hoagie

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 02:26 PM

could not agree more.



#13 Jabadoodle

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 02:39 PM

Seems this technology is enabling us to have less and less human contact all the time, as well as depersonalize war.  Interesting take on extending life, seems there are people who think they want to live forever/are afraid to die.


Yes, the depersonalization of war concerns me. Guns were less personal than swords. Bombs from human flown air-planes less personal than shells from a tank. Now it's missiles from a drone controlled by people in a hanger in Missouri which are less personal that cruise missiles launched from a battleship in the area of the conflict. Robotic soldiers with computers making the decisions of what and who to fire on will be even less personal. 


I'm not so worried about less human contact. Some people will use it that way, just as some use message boards to substitute for real contact. Others use it to enable more real contact.

As for living forever, the entire history and force of evolution has created life that has the top goals of: Reproduce. Survive. It's not at all surprising (or wrong) that people have a desire to continue living as long as they can. But it is starting to change. We have entered a time when people decide it's time to go. I see no problem with people extending their lives if they want to. Many will have much to add to their own lives and the lives of others. More time may mean more depth. I think boredom & apathy will take out the ones that are living with no joy or purpose. 



 



#14 hoagie

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 02:44 PM


Yes, the depersonalization of war concerns me. Guns were less personal than swords. Bombs from human flown air-planes less personal than shells from a tank. Now it's missiles from a drone controlled by people in a hanger in Missouri which are less personal that cruise missiles launched from a battleship in the area of the conflict. Robotic soldiers with computers making the decisions of what and who to fire on will be even less personal. 


I'm not so worried about less human contact. Some people will use it that way, just as some use message boards to substitute for real contact. Others use it to enable more real contact.

As for living forever, the entire history and force of evolution has created life that has the top goals of: Reproduce. Survive. It's not at all surprising (or wrong) that people have a desire to continue living as long as they can. But it is starting to change. We have entered a time when people decide it's time to go. I see no problem with people extending their lives if they want to. Many will have much to add to their own lives and the lives of others. More time may mean more depth. I think boredom & apathy will take out the ones that are living with no joy or purpose. 



 

 

I can look at myself and recognize Im in that small minority that has no innate desire to reproduce...sometimes I feel there may be more of this sentiment going around in the next 200-500 years.  Perhaps it will coincide with "living" forever becoming a viable alternative to organic death?