35 replies to this topic

[TakeAStepBack]

http://www.independe...st-2278522.html

By Guy Adams in Dallas
Wednesday, 4 May 2011
The cheerleader refused to chant the name of Rakheem Bolton

A teenage girl who was dropped from her high school's cheerleading squad after refusing to chant the name of a basketball player who had sexually assaulted her must pay compensation of $45,000 (

[TakeAStepBack]

Apparently US Agenda driven news outlets didn't find this alarming or was too busy reporting stories on things that require the viewers/readers/listeners to "take their word on it".

[TakeAStepBack]

No free speech for high schoolers in high school sports. Prolly not for other "volunteer" slots either, like the school newspapers. Because of course, the student has volunteered to be a mouthpiece for the school, so covering material that the school might not like could get them thrown from their spot.

There will be no shelter here....

[Tooozday]

While I agree that the idea behind this is disturbing, I'm posting a link to the decision by the Fifth Circuit Court of Appeals so that you can see the rationale.
http://www.ca5.uscou...41075.0.wpd.pdf
According to established law, as a cheerleader the young woman was acting as a "mouthpiece for the school" and therefore doesn't get to apply her own decisions on what she will say and what she won't say.
The school administration could certainly have handled this better. Unfortunately, there's no law against being stupid, or being an ass.

[TakeAStepBack]

The only rationale taking place here is one that supports fascism. No dissent allowed. You have no voice while under the state system. I already saw the courts decision. Is this young girl under contract as a cheerleader to submission of her rights while being a "mouthpiece" of the school? Apparently so.

Looks to me like school sport crowd/attendance is the most important thing here. Finally, although the court ruling is not completely surprising, the fact that this young girl is being forced to pay the school that forced her to acknowledge her assailant, or relinquish her ability to participate in the sport, because being punished for exercising her inalienable rights is apparently "frivolous".

[Tooozday]

I don't totally disagree with your assessment. However, the assailant was not indicted. How was the school supposed to respond if the assailant made a complaint that he was not being cheered? (OK, it's a straw man, but play along here. ) Could the assailant then bring a complaint against the school too?

Inalienable rights (as we have seen) are not a solid wall, never to be breached. The student did have a choice: to not participate in the cheering squad; to make prior arrangements with the cheering coach regarding the assailant; or to just walk away instead of suing. Cheerleading is not a civil right.

I completely agree that the school sport crowd is getting a bigger "voice" in this proceeding than can be explained by almost any rational stretch of the imagination. But it's economics and corporate support and all that.

[TakeAStepBack]

I don't totally disagree with your assessment. However, the assailant was not indicted. How was the school supposed to respond if the assailant made a complaint that he was not being cheered? (OK, it's a straw man, but play along here. ) Could the assailant then bring a complaint against the school too?

Inalienable rights (as we have seen) are not a solid wall, never to be breached. The student did have a choice: to not participate in the cheering squad; to make prior arrangements with the cheering coach regarding the assailant; or to just walk away instead of suing. Cheerleading is not a civil right.

I completely agree that the school sport crowd is getting a bigger "voice" in this proceeding than can be explained by almost any rational stretch of the imagination. But it's economics and corporate support and all that.

Then the rights are not inalienable.

Which is why it is fascist. it is putting the interests of the sport above those of the right to freedom of expression. She has no voice while being involved in the state system and therefore is only given the choice to STFU and walk away or cheer for her assailant. Who did plead guilty to assault, or I would not be calling him her assailant.

There will be no shelter here.

[Tooozday]

The inalienable right discussion has taken place many times. Yelling "fire" in a crowded theater is the most common example. My right to swing my fist ends at the other person's face, etc.

If the argument is that refusing to cheer is protected expressive conduct or symbolic speech, I think it becomes a stronger point. But before I would call it fascist, I'd like to see the contract the student - as - cheerleader signed (leaving aside the question of whether or not such a contract would be enforceable) AND see the published school policy on public behavior of their sports teams. Most pro teams have "public behavior" clauses whereby the player can't do anything that might reflect badly on the team without consequences.

Edited by Tooozday, 08 May 2011 - 07:17 PM.
To remove excess verbiage.

[TakeAStepBack]

The court ruling indicates that by being a volunteer to the institution, they have relinquished their rights. The policy of the school is irrelevant. She did not yell defamation at the player or inhibit his ability to play his sport. She made a conscious choice to protect her inalienable right to NOT support or acknowledge her assailant. That right was not granted.

Imposing ones rights onto someone else and exercising ones right in silent protest, aren't really the same. But you're right. This discussion becomes sticky when you go for the most extreme version of exercising rights.

[Joker]

She's on the cheerleading team to cheer for all of them. What if the entire team chose not to cheer him or chose not to cheer anyone else for whatever reason?

If you're not cheering for everyone on the team then you're not doing what you're supposed to be doing as a cheerleader.

Sucks what happened but she doesn't belong on the team if she's not cheering for the team.

She has every right to protest silently as an individual but not as a cheerleader

[Java Time]

No fascism here just another example of poor parenting...

[TakeAStepBack]

She's on the cheerleading team to cheer for all of them. What if the entire team chose not to cheer him or chose not to cheer anyone else for whatever reason?

If you're not cheering for everyone on the team then you're not doing what you're supposed to be doing as a cheerleader.

Sucks what happened but she doesn't belong on the team if she's not cheering for the team.

She has every right to protest silently as an individual but not as a cheerleader

The subsequent legal challenge against Mr Bain's decision perhaps highlights the seriousness with which Texans take cheerleading and high school sports, which can attract crowds in the tens of thousands.

As a cheerleader, HS served as a mouthpiece through which [the school district] could disseminate speech – namely, support for its athletic teams," the appeals court decision says. "This act constituted substantial interference with the work of the school because, as a cheerleader, HS was at the basketball game for the purpose of cheering, a position she undertook voluntarily."

While I see what you're saying, if you don't see the problem with this, then you see no problem in this finding its way into other portions of the institution. Like I said above about someone who might say work on the school news paper and have their right disseminated for publishing something (I know where people are going to go with this, but I'm not talking about reporting things that are inappropriate for a school environment) the school does not want circulated too. So, basically, we're not teaching our kids to think freely and invoke their rights, we are institutionalizing them into submitting to the will of the institution.

Then, we ostracized them for not bending to conform to what any normal person for a high school basketball team would consider insensitive or unreasonable, by calling their rights frivolous and spanking them with a $45,000 charge to pay the school, court ordered.


Like I said, there will be no shelter here.

[TakeAStepBack]

So if the students didn't like a particular school policy involving something that one would consider insensitive or unreasonable, and they formed a protest during school to show their disapproval, they can be disseminated, and kicked out of school too, no?

Remember what our schools are suppose to do. Am I really off base here? Is this not The United States of America?

If I'm really way off here I'll happily admit it, but I don't see how I am.

[Tooozday]

No fascism here just another example of poor parenting...

I'm confused. What part of this is poor parenting?

[Joker]

I just don't believe she has the right to not cheer when that's exactly what's required of her as a member of the squad.

Where would it stop? Would players not wanting to pass the ball to him be acceptable? Football players refusing to block for their teammates?

She didn't do what she signed on to do. I'd imagine there were others that didn't make the cheerleading team because she had a spot. Why should they be left off the team while someone else who doesn't want to do what is required is allowed to remain on it?

They had every right to get rid of her being a cheerleader who wouldn't cheer. However, it would be a whole different story if it was a fellow basketball player who got kicked off the basketball team for not cheering him.

[TakeAStepBack]

So you're saying you find nothing unreasonable or insensitive about the principal's request?

Alright......

I can't argue with you there about the cheering. She signed on to cheer. I guess her choices were to cheer for everyone or GTFO.
And in so, the court find this not only a reasonable request, but also one of example setting for invoking frivolity. A $45,000 court mandated payment to the school. Maybe she wasnt clobbered over the head for not submitting, but certainly a financial clobbering there...

[In A Silent Way]

So you're saying you find nothing unreasonable or insensitive about the principal's request?

Alright......

I can't argue with you there about the cheering. She signed on to cheer. I guess her choices were to cheer for everyone of GTFO.

Those were her choices. I want to know why the rapist was playing ball at a high school instead of in a prison yard.

[Joker]

So if the students didn't like a particular school policy involving something that one would consider insensitive or unreasonable, and they formed a protest during school to show their disapproval, they can be disseminated, and kicked out of school too, no?

Remember what our schools are suppose to do. Am I really off base here? Is this not The United States of America?

If I'm really way off here I'll happily admit it, but I don't see how I am.

I think it's apples and oranges.

Cheerleading requires her to cheer.

She didn't get kicked out of school, she only got kicked off the team for not doing what is required to be a part of the team.

[TakeAStepBack]

Those were her choices. I want to know why the rapist was playing ball at a high school instead of in a prison yard.

The article indicates that he was dismissed on a misdemeanor assault charge down from rape. It would appear that the boy was a highlight of the school's team and therefore leverage in a real deal redneck town "pulled some strings".

I give up. Apparently this little act of defiance in the face of insensitivity couldn't be forgiven. Way to teach them young.

Institutionalize'd

[TakeAStepBack]

I think it's apples and oranges.

Cheerleading requires her to cheer.

She didn't get kicked out of school, she only got kicked off the team for not doing what is required to be a part of the team.

You're missing my point. It really isn't apples and oranges at all. Are the kids there to learn, think and grow? Or be institutionalized and indoctrinated into what I would consider damn close to fascism.

She was assaulted by this boy. Is this not an insensitive request to let her stand in silence?
Apparently so.

[Joker]

Definitely insensitive and it certainly sucks but she was standing up for what she believes to be right and sometimes fighting the powers that be will get your ass banned even when you're right

[TakeAStepBack]

Did they drop a $45,000 bill in your lap when you tried to get restitution?

I must be off my rocker to think this is really excessive and out of bounds.
I would move from that town ASAP.

[In A Silent Way]

I would have told my daughter to quit the cheer team when the rapist got off easy, but apparently cheerleading is some kind of religion in Texas.

The school district don't like lawsuits. I hope that judgment gets reversed. $45k is a lot of scratch.

Got a cheerleader here wants to help with my paper
Let her do all the work and maybe later I'll rape her

[Tooozday]

Those were her choices. I want to know why the rapist was playing ball at a high school instead of in a prison yard.

The assailant - a grand jury found no probable cause and refused to indict him, that's why. He pleaded to a (misdemeanor) assault charge.

I repeat: The school administration handled this horribly (IMHO) but being assholes and douchebags is not illegal.

[TakeAStepBack]

I would have told my daughter to quit the cheer team when the rapist got off easy, but apparently cheerleading is some kind of religion in Texas.

The school district don't like lawsuits. I hope that judgment gets reversed. $45k is a lot of scratch.

Got a cheerleader here wants to help with my paper
Let her do all the work and maybe later I'll rape her

Yeah, apparently, bring your buddies too.

She can't get that reversed. Two separate court circuits made the decision.
I would have made my daughter quit the team to. But imagine if that was her thing and all for her to do in the town?

One last time. There will be no shelter here.

[Joker]

You're missing my point. It really isn't apples and oranges at all. Are the kids there to learn, think and grow? Or be institutionalized and indoctrinated into what I would consider damn close to fascism.

She was assaulted by this boy. Is this not an insensitive request to let her stand in silence?
Apparently so.

As far as I can see if she was not a member of the cheerleading team at the time this wouldn't have been an issue. As a student she would have been free to not cheer for him.

Again imagine if it was a member of another team that chose not to participate for whatever reason, a pitcher refusing to throw the ball, a player refusing to catch it, etc... they'd be thrown off those teams too.

[TakeAStepBack]

The assailant - a grand jury found no probable cause and refused to indict him, that's why. He pleaded to a (misdemeanor) assault charge.

I repeat: The school administration handled this horribly (IMHO) but being assholes and douchebags is not illegal.

Yup. You have it right, Toooz.

[TakeAStepBack]

Don't think for yourself. Follow the orders of the institution. Follow the orders of the court. Follow. You're not free from small infractions that are made from unreasonable and insensitive demands. You're not to think beyond the establishment.

[Java Time]

I'm confused. What part of this is poor parenting?

How,after what had happened to this child, could a parent allow that child to be put in that situation in the first place. this shouldn't have even occurred at all!!! There's no free speech issue if the parents were parenting...and what kind of damage has been done to this child now...wasn't the initial assault bad enough?

[TakeAStepBack]

As far as I can see if she was not a member of the cheerleading team at the time this wouldn't have been an issue. As a student she would have been free to not cheer for him.

Again imagine if it was a member of another team that chose not to participate for whatever reason, a pitcher refusing to throw the ball, a player refusing to catch it, etc... they'd be thrown off those teams too.

Did the pitcher get assaulted by the catcher?

[In A Silent Way]

How,after what had happened to this child, could a parent allow that child to be put in that situation in the first place. this shouldn't have even occurred at all!!! There's no free speech issue if the parents were parenting...and what kind of damage has been done to this child now...wasn't the initial assault bad enough?

Cheerleading is a religion in Texas.

Did the pitcher get assaulted by the catcher?

No, that kind of hazing happens on Long Island.

[Joker]

Did the pitcher get assaulted by the catcher?

For argument's sake let's say yes.

Does the reason why one would refuse to do what's required to be on the team/squad really make a difference?

[TakeAStepBack]

I see your point, Joker.

I'm still ashamed of the legal system for handing down such a heavy hammer onto this young lady. As well as ashamed of the principal and school administration for not handling this situation more delicately and with a little sensitivity.

Fascists.

[Joker]

I see your point, Joker.

I'm still ashamed of the legal system for handing down such a heavy hammer onto this young lady. As well as ashamed of the principal and school administration for not handling this situation more delicately and with a little sensitivity.

Fascists.

I'm thinking she was told she'd get stuck with court costs if she lost and I'm assuming that the 45K probably takes care of both court cases.

It definitely could/should have been handled better from the start.

[TakeAStepBack]

The court should have also taken the time out to give her a good sexual assaulting while they were at it.

[Tim the Beek]

I'm not honestly sure how I feel yet about the overall case. I need to read more.

What I am sure of is that Richard Bain is a douche of epic size and acidity.