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Leaked Obama administration memo sets out case for killing US citizens


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#201 TakeAStepBack

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 03:11 PM

http://reason.com/bl...rals-suffer-cog

 

 

Obama Acts Like Bush, Liberals Suffer “Cognitive Dissonance”

Damon W. Root|

 

Feb. 11, 2013 7:45 am

Writing in Sunday’s New York Times, Peter Baker reports on the fallout among American liberals after the news broke last week about the Obama administration’s secret memo justifying the use of drones to kill American citizens. Baker writes:

Conservatives complained that if Mr. Bush had done what Mr. Obama has done, he would have been eviscerated by liberals and the news media. But perhaps more than ever before in Mr. Obama’s tenure, liberals voiced sustained grievance over the president’s choices.
“That memo coming out, I think, was a wake-up call,” said Christopher Anders, senior legislative counsel of the American Civil Liberties Union. “These last few days, it was like being back in the Bush days.”
“It’s causing a lot of cognitive dissonance for a lot of people,” he added. “It’s not the President Obama they thought they knew.”

Isn't it a little late for a wake-up call? Obama has already waged a war in Libya without congressional approval, which is a pretty good signal that he takes an expansive view of executive power. And then there's the fact that Obama rammed several very high-profile government appointments past the U.S. Senate by invoking his recess appointment power when the Senate was not actually in recess—an executive power play that Bush never attempted. But I suppose it's better late than never when it comes to criticizing presidential overreach.

Unfortunately, as Baker also notes, some of the president's supporters remain immune to the cognitive dissonance even now, as evidenced by this extraordinary statement from former Michigan Gov. Jennifer Granholm, who has been rumored to be on Obama's list of possible Supreme Court nominees:

For four years, Mr. Obama has benefited at least in part from the reluctance of Mr. Bush’s most virulent critics to criticize a Democratic president. Some liberals acknowledged in recent days that they were willing to accept policies they once would have deplored as long as they were in Mr. Obama’s hands, not Mr. Bush’s.
“We trust the president,” former Gov. Jennifer Granholm of Michigan said on Current TV. “And if this was Bush, I think that we would all be more up in arms because we wouldn’t trust that he would strike in a very targeted way and try to minimize damage rather than contain collateral damage.”


#202 china cat

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 03:14 PM

Very cynical around here.

 

:rolleyes:

 

Hi Andy, not sure cynical is the world I'd use to describe my post. It's pretty accurate. U.S. through direct and indirect action (wars, supporting dictators, propping up regimes that brutalize their own people (Pinochet, etc.), supplying weapons, training in torture techniques at the School of the Assassins... fall out from wars such as effects of  depleted uranium, etc.), is probably responsible for more deaths around the globe than any other govt.



#203 TakeAStepBack

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 03:16 PM

They hate us because of our freedoms.  That's why when we "spread democracy" in their locations they attack our embassies, etc.. They are practicing the democracy we gave them.



#204 concert andy

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 03:31 PM

What international law enforcement? The US military , CIA and foreign policy script writers?

 

The internation law enforcement is called Interpol.  There logo is connecting Police for a safer WORLD.

 

Not the stuff you mentioned. 



#205 concert andy

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 03:36 PM

Hi Andy, not sure cynical is the world I'd use to describe my post. It's pretty accurate. U.S. through direct and indirect action (wars, supporting dictators, propping up regimes that brutalize their own people (Pinochet, etc.), supplying weapons, training in torture techniques at the School of the Assassins... fall out from wars such as effects of  depleted uranium, etc.), is probably responsible for more deaths around the globe than any other govt.

 

I understand your point and all fair assesments, but I will stick with my original assesment of what I thought last night when I first read your response.  And sticking with it after reading your response.

 

Are you sure you are not talking more about the Bush era?  Drones and wars were intitiated by Bush as the accepted precedent.



#206 TakeAStepBack

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 03:47 PM

I see. For fighting the so called "terrorists", not for policing the government agencies and administrations that are terrorizing sovereign, private citizens in nations like Pakistan, Yemen, etc...



#207 concert andy

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 03:55 PM

I see. For fighting the so called "terrorists", not for policing the government agencies and administrations that are terrorizing sovereign, private citizens in nations like Pakistan, Yemen, etc...

 

Yes.

 

I am saying the war on terror should be a police effort, hence Interpol.

 

I thought that was the job of the United Nations to police each other and their administrations.



#208 Joker

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 03:57 PM

As I have stated all along, then the international law enforcers should enforce these laws and hold the US and the administration accountable.

 

From the way TASB describes "terrorists", this is not a job for drones, or military, or snipers.

 

This is Interpol's job.

I'd argue that it's "we the people" who should be holding the administration accountable as they're breaking these laws in our name. Why should we pass the buck to others who will be cowed into silence or just plain ignored by our government? 



#209 concert andy

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 04:02 PM

I'd argue that it's "we the people" who should be holding the administration accountable as they're breaking these laws in our name. Why should we pass the buck to others who will be cowed into silence or just plain ignored by our government? 

 

I tend to agree in general with this. 

 

 

But Isn't that what happens now with our government?



#210 Uncle Coulro

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 07:03 PM

The internation law enforcement is called Interpol.  There logo is connecting Police for a safer WORLD.

 

Not the stuff you mentioned. 

Interpol is an information and protocol clearinghouse. They do not make arrests. Their mission is to foster communication between the actual police agencies.



#211 concert andy

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 07:16 PM

Interpol is an information and protocol clearinghouse. They do not make arrests. Their mission is to foster communication between the actual police agencies.

 

 

They work with all countries of the world to bring down multi country threats.  They work closely with local law enforcement to make arrests.

 

Interpol arrests suspected 'Anonymous' hackers

Thousands arrested in INTERPOL operation targeting illegal trade in birds

 

 

 

Terrorism still sounds like a job for interpol to lead the information gathering at a global level, and working with the police around the world to eliminate threats.

 

Sounds better than droning or sending in troops.  IMO.



#212 Uncle Coulro

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 07:32 PM

They work with all countries of the world to bring down multi country threats.  They work closely with local law enforcement to make arrests.

 

Interpol arrests suspected 'Anonymous' hackers

Thousands arrested in INTERPOL operation targeting illegal trade in birds

 

 

 

Terrorism still sounds like a job for interpol to lead the information gathering at a global level, and working with the police around the world to eliminate threats.

 

Sounds better than droning or sending in troops.  IMO.

Don't believe everything you read in the news media. Those two headlines are flat-out wrong. Interpol has no police powers, makes no arrests, and has no jurisdiction. They simply (but importantly) help coordinate information and operations between multiple LE agencies.



#213 concert andy

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 07:46 PM

Don't believe everything you read in the news media. Those two headlines are flat-out wrong. Interpol has no police powers, makes no arrests, and has no jurisdiction. They simply (but importantly) help coordinate information and operations between multiple LE agencies.

 

I didn't.

 

Yes, local police made the arrest, but off of tips from Interpol.

 

Why not implement an international police force to chase "terrorists".  This way it is out of the hands of any countries military,