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When the BBC reported Tower #7 falling 20 mins before it did....


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#51 In A Silent Way

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 09:45 PM

I find this difficult to masturbate to.



#52 TakeAStepBack

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 09:48 PM

I do too. After 12 years of it. My caulk is limp and in spots, crumbling. :shocked:



#53 TEO

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 10:17 PM

:nikkiblue:



#54 china cat

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 10:31 PM

haven't researched this, but 1,700 architects and engineers have and they have legitimate questions. 

 

http://www.ae911trut...hp/sitemap.html



#55 china cat

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 10:32 PM

http://en.wikipedia....tion_Northwoods



#56 Joker

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 11:21 PM

I do too. After 12 years of it. My caulk is limp and in spots, crumbling. :shocked:

fallingtower'd



#57 Tabbooma

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 11:51 PM

LOL... People. Plane hits building, impact knocks of steel fire proofing, jet fuel and combustibles create a furnace to high enough temp to weaken steel bar bar joists, bar joist start to fail and down it comes, the picture of the column is an impact break, look at the cloumn below it.. What's next, a plane did not fly into the pentagon, we did not land on the moon.. Its a plot to take guns away from all the staunch supporting 2nd amendment folks... :)  Start prepping, save them jelly sandwiches, water and hmmmmm guns... The man is a coming ;)



#58 Karen

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 12:48 AM

LOL... People. Plane hits building, impact knocks of steel fire proofing, jet fuel and combustibles create a furnace to high enough temp to weaken steel bar bar joists, bar joist start to fail and down it comes, the picture of the column is an impact break, look at the cloumn below it.. What's next, a plane did not fly into the pentagon, we did not land on the moon.. Its a plot to take guns away from all the staunch supporting 2nd amendment folks... :)  Start prepping, save them jelly sandwiches, water and hmmmmm guns... The man is a coming ;)

 

 

:clapping:

 

This. 



#59 TakeAStepBack

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 04:00 AM

Explain my posts, then. Tabs..



#60 deadheadskier

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 04:47 AM

Can you explain that structural I-Beam I posted's condition?

 

well, it doesn't appear that anyone shot it with an AR 15

 

:funny1:



#61 Tabbooma

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 08:52 AM

Sure can, first, that is not an I beam, no such steel member, that looks to be a wide flange beam that was compressed, a whole lot of enery would be required to compress that beam, this energy would tranfer into a whole lot of heat through that beam thereby creating the burning look condition of the finish, look at the column below it, it too has discoloration where it twisted. The enegry to do this was that from the side impact, a laterial hit/load to that structure. Tabbooma is an engineer and builds buildings... Sorry guys, the goverment did not sneak into the building and place charges to take down the buildings... ;)

 

 

Explain my posts, then. Tabs..


#62 TakeAStepBack

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 01:36 PM

Image187.marked.jpg

 

ONce you do the hard research on steel, there is no way anything adds up. so there it is.

This is bankers trust. Across the street from WTC2. It was hit by falling debris.

 

 

 

Sure can, first, that is not an I beam, no such steel member, that looks to be a wide flange beam that was compressed, a whole lot of enery would be required to compress that beam, this energy would tranfer into a whole lot of heat through that beam thereby creating the burning look condition of the finish, look at the column below it, it too has discoloration where it twisted. The enegry to do this was that from the side impact, a laterial hit/load to that structure. Tabbooma is an engineer and builds buildings... Sorry guys, the goverment did not sneak into the building and place charges to take down the buildings... ;)

 

 

So what you're telling me is that falling debris created the energy needed to pinch crimp, and shrivel that steel beam? Can you, as an engineer and someone involved in building construction, cite a similar reaction? Because the amount of energy we are talking about, as far as my knowledge goes (who also happens to work in construction/building infrastructure), would not be present from falling debris to create this outcome. We are talking a shit load of energy. More importantly, we're talking about a pin pointed energy transfer on a long beam. Where transfer would dissipate being that steel is a conductor. 



#63 TakeAStepBack

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 01:48 PM

And so we know what I am referring to...also known as W Beams or Wide flanges.

 

450.jpg



#64 Tabbooma

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 03:12 PM

I beams are not the same as wide flange beams.. Common mistake when people talk about steel in buildings,  look at the size of that hole and that should answer the question for you.. what are you inferring here, that this was an explosive?  Is so, that would of torn that beam and column appart and not compressed it, that damage is from a laterial load/impact on that structure.



#65 Tabbooma

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 03:16 PM

That piece of steel was part of the flooring system, look at the edge of the floor below ad you will see an identical member.. Something slammed into the side of that buidling, it could of been one of the planes engines travelling at a high rate... really cant tell what hit it but something clearly did, a bomb would have ripped the area more



#66 TakeAStepBack

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 03:27 PM

I do not think any bombs or controlled demo took place in this event. Just so we are clear. What I am saying, is that steel does not react that way from being slammed into. The amount of energy needed to make that steel mutate in that fashion can not be obtained from slamming into it. Or from an explosion either.



#67 TakeAStepBack

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 03:31 PM

Also, Tabs, if that flange was part of the flooring, it would in the Q-deck. We'd have to go all the way back to the way Bankers Trust was constructed to determine what that flange was part of. But that is hardly the point Im making.



#68 Tabbooma

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 03:36 PM

What is your point? What caused this than?



#69 TakeAStepBack

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 03:41 PM

:dunno:



#70 TakeAStepBack

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 09:53 PM

I suppose my point overall is that there are too many discrepancies and unanswered questions about the event. Therefore we don't really know what happened and can not draw any conclusions. 



#71 Tabbooma

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 09:56 PM

Okay.. ;)



#72 cheeseweasel

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 01:55 AM

Yup. The same government that cant solve a budget crisis was the mastermimd behind the largest conspiracy in humam history that would have involved thousands of people to pull off and kept quiet...and yet 12 years later not one single person has ever come forward to blow the whistle or offer up definitive proof of said conspiracy. Remember, this is the federal government we are talking about. The ones that claimed Iraq was anus deep in WMDs...the whole point of the conspiracy to begin with.
Wow.

#73 TakeAStepBack

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 01:57 AM

Many have come forward. Your argument is invalid..



#74 cheeseweasel

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 02:29 AM

Who? Where? What kind of definitive proof did they have? Why hasn't it been proven? Why?

#75 cheeseweasel

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 02:30 AM

You'd think Oprah would be interviewing the person with the proof or involvement.

#76 china cat

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 12:16 PM

Yeah, I have trouble believing something this massive was planned and enacted because of the scale of people necessary to pull it off (though our govt is certainly versed in planning attacks) but I have no trouble believing the govt knew about the attacks and did nothing to stop it, so as to further agendas.

 

 

 

and, our govt HAS constructed false flags - they HAVE planned attacks against U.S. citizens to further their agendas. Operation Northwoods: Thoughts on this from those who tend to poke fun at those of us with a strong distrust for govt.?  http://abcnews.go.co...id=92662&page=1

 

If we have proof that they've planned it once, why so (mockingly) dismissive of those who don't doubt they'd plan it again? 

 

 

 

442px-NorthwoodsMemorandum.jpg

 

 

Operation Northwoods was a series of false-flag proposals that originated within the United States government in 1962, but were rejected by the Kennedy administration.[2]The proposals called for the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA), or other operatives, to commit perceived acts of terrorism in U.S. cities and elsewhere. These acts of terrorism were to be blamed on Cuba in order to create public support for a war against that nation, which had recently become communist under Fidel Castro.[3] One part of Operation Northwoods was to "develop a Communist Cuban terror campaign in the Miami area, in other Florida cities and even in Washington".

Operation Northwoods proposals included hijackings and bombings followed by the introduction of phony evidence that would implicate the Cuban government. It stated:

The desired resultant from the execution of this plan would be to place the United States in the apparent position of suffering defensible grievances from a rash and irresponsible government of Cuba and to develop an international image of a Cuban threat to peace in the Western Hemisphere.

Several other proposals were included within Operation Northwoods, including real or simulated actions against various U.S. military and civilian targets. The plan was drafted by the Joint Chiefs of Staff, signed by Chairman Lyman Lemnitzer and sent to the Secretary of Defense. Although part of the U.S. government's Cuban Project anti-communist initiative, Operation Northwoods was never officially accepted; it was authorized by the Joint Chiefs of Staff, but then rejected by President John F. Kennedy.

 

Appendix to Enclosure A" and "Annex to Appendix to Enclosure A" of the Northwoods document were first published online by the National Security Archive on 6 November 1998 in a joint venture with CNN as part of its 1998 Cold War television documentary series[7][8]—specifically, as a documentation supplement to "Episode 10: Cuba," which aired on 29 November 1998.[9][10] "Annex to Appendix to Enclosure A" is the section of the document which contains the proposals to stage terrorist attacks.

The Northwoods document was published online in a more complete form (i.e., including cover memoranda) by the National Security Archive on 30 April 2001.[11]

Content

In response to a request for pretexts for military intervention by the Chief of Operations of the Cuba Project, Brig. Gen. Edward Lansdale, the document listed methods, and outlined plans, that the authors believed would garner public and international support for U.S. military intervention in Cuba. According to Jacob Hornberger:

“ The plan called for U.S. personnel to disguise themselves as agents of the Cuban government and to engage in terrorist attacks on the U.S. base at Guantanamo Bay. It also called for terrorist attacks within the United States that would be conducted by pro-U.S. forces disguising themselves as Cuban agents.

One of the most fascinating aspects of Operation Northwoods involved the proposed hijacking of an American passenger plane. The JCS proposed that a real plane containing American passengers would be hijacked by friendly forces disguised as Cuban agents. The plane would drop down off the radar screen and be replaced by a pilotless aircraft, which would crash, purportedly killing all the passengers. Under the plan, the real passenger plane would be secretly flown back to the United States.[12]

More specifically, the plan called for the following:

  1. Since it would seem desirable to use legitimate provocation as the basis for U.S. military intervention in Cuba a cover and deception plan, to include requisite preliminary actions such as has been developed in response to Task 33  c, could be executed as an initial effort to provoke Cuban reactions. Harassment plus deceptive actions to convince the Cubans of imminent invasion would be emphasized. Our military posture throughout execution of the plan will allow a rapid change from exercise to intervention if Cuban response justifies.
  2. A series of well coordinated incidents will be planned to take place in and around Guantanamo to give genuine appearance of being done by hostile Cuban forces.
    • a. Incidents to establish a credible attack (not in chronological order):
      1. Start rumors (many). Use clandestine radio.
      2. Land friendly Cubans in uniform "over-the-fence" to stage attack on base.
      3. Capture Cuban (friendly) saboteurs inside the base.
      4. Start riots near the base main gate (friendly Cubans).[13]
      5. Blow up ammunition inside the base; start fires.
      6. Burn aircraft on air base (sabotage).
      7. Lob mortar shells from outside of base into base. Some damage to installations.
      8. Capture assault teams approaching from the sea or vicinity of Guantanamo City.
      9. Capture militia group which storms the base.
      10. Sabotage ship in harbor; large fires—naphthalene.
      11. Sink ship near harbor entrance. Conduct funerals for mock-victims (may be in lieu of (10)).
    • b. United States would respond by executing offensive operations to secure water and power supplies, destroying artillery and mortar emplacements which threaten the base.
    • c. Commence large scale United States military operations.
  3. A "Remember the Maine" incident could be arranged in several forms:
  4. a. We could blow up a U.S. ship in Guantanamo Bay and blame Cuba.
  5. b. We could blow up a drone (unmanned) vessel anywhere in the Cuban waters. We could arrange to cause such incident in the vicinity of Havana or Santiago as a spectacular result of Cuban attack from the air or sea, or both. The presence of Cuban planes or ships merely investigating the intent of the vessel could be fairly compelling evidence that the ship was taken under attack. The nearness to Havana or Santiago would add credibility especially to those people that might have heard the blast or have seen the fire. The United States could follow up with an air/sea rescue operation covered by U.S. fighters to "evacuate" remaining members of the non-existent crew. Casualty lists in U.S. newspapers would cause a helpful wave of national indignation.
  6. We could develop a Communist Cuban terror campaign in the Miami area, in other Florida cities and even in Washington.[14]
    The terror campaign could be pointed at refugees seeking haven in the United States. We could sink a boatload of Cubans en route to Florida (real or simulated). We could foster attempts on lives of Cuban refugees in the United States even to the extent of wounding in instances to be widely publicized. Exploding a few plastic bombs in carefully chosen spots, the arrest of Cuban agents and the release of prepared documents substantiating Cuban involvement, also would be helpful in projecting the idea of an irresponsible government.
  7. A "Cuban-based, Castro-supported" filibuster could be simulated against a neighboring Caribbean nation (in the vein of the 14 June invasion of the Dominican Republic). We know that Castro is backing subversive efforts clandestinely against Haiti, the Dominican Republic, Guatemala, and Nicaragua at present and possible others. These efforts can be magnified and additional ones contrived for exposure. For example, advantage can be taken of the sensitivity of the Dominican Air Force to intrusions within their national air space. "Cuban" B-26 or C-46 type aircraft could make cane-burning raids at night. Soviet Bloc incendiaries could be found. This could be coupled with "Cuban" messages to the Communist underground in the Dominican Republic and "Cuban" shipments of arm which would be found, or intercepted, on the beach.
  8. Use of MIG type aircraft by U.S. pilots could provide additional provocation. Harassment of civil air, attacks on surface shipping and destruction of U.S. military drone aircraft by MIG type planes would be useful as complementary actions. An F-86 properly painted would convince air passengers that they saw a Cuban MIG, especially if the pilot of the transport were to announce such fact. The primary drawback to this suggestion appears to be the security risk inherent in obtaining or modifying an aircraft. However, reasonable copies of the MIG could be produced from U.S. resources in about three months.[15]
  9. Hijacking attempts against civil air and surface craft should appear to continue as harassing measures condoned by the government of Cuba. Concurrently, genuine defections of Cuban civil and military air and surface craft should be encouraged.
  10. a. An aircraft at Eglin AFB would be painted and numbered as an exact duplicate for a civil registered aircraft belonging to a CIA proprietary organization in the Miami area. At a designated time the duplicate would be substituted for the actual civil aircraft and would be loaded with the selected passengers, all boarded under carefully prepared aliases. The actual registered aircraft would be converted to a drone.
  11. b. Take off times of the drone aircraft and the actual aircraft will be scheduled to allow a rendezvous south of Florida. From the rendezvous point the passenger-carrying aircraft will descend to minimum altitude and go directly into an auxiliary field at Eglin AFB where arrangements will have been made to evacuate the passengers and return the aircraft to its original status. The drone aircraft meanwhile will continue to fly the filed flight plan. When over Cuba the drone will begin transmitting on the international distress frequency a "MAY DAY" message stating he is under attack by Cuban MIG aircraft. The transmission will be interrupted by destruction of the aircraft which will be triggered by radio signal. This will allow ICAO radio[16] stations in the Western Hemisphere to tell the United States what has happened to the aircraft instead of the United States trying to "sell" the incident.
  12. a. Approximately 4 or 5 F-101 aircraft will be dispatched in trail from Homestead AFB, Florida, to the vicinity of Cuba. Their mission will be to reverse course and simulate fakir aircraft for an air defense exercise in southern Florida. These aircraft would conduct variations of these flights at frequent Intervals. Crews would be briefed to remain at least 12 miles off the Cuban coast; however, they would be required to carry live ammunition in the event that hostile actions were taken by the Cuban MIGs.
  13. b. On one such flight, a pre-briefed pilot would fly tail-end Charley at considerable interval between aircraft. While near the Cuban Island this pilot would broadcast that he had been jumped by MIGs and was going down. No other calls would be made. The pilot would then fly directly west at extremely low altitude and land at a secure base, an Eglin auxiliary. The aircraft would be met by the proper people, quickly stored and given a new tail number. The pilot who had performed the mission under an alias, would resume his proper identity and return to his normal place of business. The pilot and aircraft would then have disappeared.
  14. c. At precisely the same time that the aircraft was presumably shot down, a submarine or small surface craft would disburse F-101 parts, parachute, etc., at approximately 15 to 20 miles off the Cuban coast and depart. The pilots returning to Homestead would have a true story as far as they knew. Search ships and aircraft could be dispatched and parts of aircraft found.[17]
  15. It is possible to create an incident which will demonstrate convincingly that a Cuban aircraft has attacked and shot down a chartered civil airliner en route from the United States to Jamaica, Guatemala, Panama, or Venezuela. The destination would be chosen only to cause the flight plan route to cross Cuba. The passengers could be a group of college students off on a holiday or any grouping of persons with a common interest to support chartering a non-scheduled flight.
  16. It is possible to create an incident which will make it appear that Communist Cuban MIGs have destroyed a USAF aircraft over international waters in an unprovoked attack.

James Bamford wrote on Northwoods:

“ Operation Northwoods, which had the written approval of the Chairman and every member of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, called for innocent people to be shot on American streets; for boats carrying refugees fleeing Cuba to be sunk on the high seas; for a wave of violent terrorism to be launched in Washington, D.C., Miami, and elsewhere. People would be framed for bombings they did not commit; planes would be hijacked. Using phony evidence, all of it would be blamed on Castro, thus giving Lemnitzer and his cabal the excuse, as well as the public and international backing, they needed to launch their war.[18

 

 

 

AND, LET'S NOT FORGET THE GULF OF TONKEN "GHOST SHIP" THAT LED US INTO THE VIETNAM WAR.

 

 

there are questions worth asking.

 



#77 cheeseweasel

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 02:03 PM

In our current age of instant information, security hackers and constant surveillance, I just don't see how something this massive could be possible and kept secret. And equally, if it somehow was, how could it possibly remain secret for this long?
The world of the last 20 years is massively different than the one of all history that preceeded it in terms of information, communication and instant access to both. We now literally hold endless access to both in the palm of our hand.
Could it have been possible before this time? Maybe. Not any more though. Too many eyes.
9/11 was a terrorist attack who's threat was known and ignored either purposely or through sheer incompetence. Seeing as who was in charge at the time, either one is possible. Cheney saw an opportunity for war and allowed it or Bush was just being the inept turd he was and ignored it.

#78 TakeAStepBack

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 02:21 PM

Compartmentalization.

 

Also, the use of communication and instant access to information to deliberately create a pile of false information so pervasive, so big, so deep, that anyone who enters with questions never finds an answer....they find MANY answers and conflicting accounts, stories, etc...

 

Take Steven Jones for instance. An "academic" who has showed up in multiple cases to create a narrative. During 9/11, that narrative was finding Thermite or thermate in dust samples taken from Manhattan. In the 90s, he was the guy who created another narrative over the exploration of what was snarkily at the time, called "Cold Fusion".

 

it really is not so hard to see how many people could be led around to create an event without realizing what role they were playing.



#79 china cat

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 02:23 PM

Hi CW,

 

So, are those reading willing to consider that the govt has proven itself to be an enemy of its own people? If the Kennedy admin had not been in place to stop the covert op then the CIA, in collusion with the Defense Dept. would have attacked U.S. citizens on U.S. soil. Given that and hundreds of other questionable acts (govt testing/experiments on U.S. citizens and military men, School of the Americas, international aid to the enemy, etc..) is it really that unreasonable for people to become suspicious of 9/11? 

 

Other govts kill their own people but it can't happen here.

Other govts take away citizens right to bear arms before doing so but it can't happen here

This govt would never plot to murder its own people but it actually did happened here

Now its... well, the government could and has plotted to do so but they won't do it now, because we have too many watchdogs.



#80 Depends

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 03:11 PM

While I agree that the gov't has turned against it's people,many times in our history, and could do so again, I don't put much faith in the "Other govts take away citizens right to bear arms before doing so..."

I poorly researched meme has been out for a while stating that Hitler, PolPot, Stalin, Castro and others had taken away guns prior to their mass murders.  A closer look at the facts does not allow a simple 2+2=4

 

Hitler actually reduced controls on guns.  His method of destroying part of his population was more of a convincing the populace that a segment of the population was not worthy. Propaganda was the biggest weapon that Hitler had.

While Hitler did ban Jews from gun ownership in Germany, the Jews of Paris, Prague, Warsaw, etc did not have such restrictions.  The thought that if the Jews only had guns, they would have been able to stop the Holocaust, just doesn't hold water.

Pol Pot never made any laws.  The Cambodian gov't banned guns 20 years before Pol Pot took power. Even Pol Pot's army had trouble obtaining weapons.

Stalin never banned guns

Nor did Il Duce

Castro never banned guns.  Hand guns are legal in Cuba.

And quite frankly, the populace having guns actually helped Castro to gain, and keep power.



#81 concert andy

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 03:36 PM

Without reading this whole thread, does anyone believe there was a conspiracy involved for 9/11?

 

:facepalm:



#82 TEO

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 03:45 PM

Smoke and mirrors.

 

I believe there was intel that would have allowed those planes to be diverted, etc rather than hitting the towers in the first place.

 

 

At the very least, I believe our government knew of the threat and choose to do nothing, rather letting the attacks happen, thereby allowing them to use fear to drive an agenda through.



#83 china cat

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 03:52 PM

While I agree that the gov't has turned against it's people,many times in our history, and could do so again, I don't put much faith in the "Other govts take away citizens right to bear arms before doing so..."

I poorly researched meme has been out for a while stating that Hitler, PolPot, Stalin, Castro and others had taken away guns prior to their mass murders.  A closer look at the facts does not allow a simple 2+2=4

 

Hitler actually reduced controls on guns.  His method of destroying part of his population was more of a convincing the populace that a segment of the population was not worthy. Propaganda was the biggest weapon that Hitler had.

While Hitler did ban Jews from gun ownership in Germany, the Jews of Paris, Prague, Warsaw, etc did not have such restrictions.  The thought that if the Jews only had guns, they would have been able to stop the Holocaust, just doesn't hold water.

Pol Pot never made any laws.  The Cambodian gov't banned guns 20 years before Pol Pot took power. Even Pol Pot's army had trouble obtaining weapons.

Stalin never banned guns

Nor did Il Duce

Castro never banned guns.  Hand guns are legal in Cuba.

And quite frankly, the populace having guns actually helped Castro to gain, and keep power.

 

Thanks for the post, Depends

 

There was a ban though in Germany, outcomes debatable and unknowable, of course.  There was no ban on private ownership of guns in S.U.? What about Turkey and the Armenian Genocide? China? Guatemala?

 

Others here, I'm sure, are better able to refer to historical data (including yourself, D.), as I'm not versed in it.



#84 Depends

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 03:52 PM

At the very least, I believe our government knew of the threat and choose to do nothing, rather letting the attacks happen, thereby allowing them to use fear to drive an agenda through.

I agree. 

I don't think they knew how bad it would be.  Although I firmly believe they knew that Americans would die.

 

I have not looked into it in a long time, but there are theories that FDR knew that Pearl Harbor was going to be attacked, and let it happen.  I remember someone debunking that theory, but like I said, I have not looked into it in a very long time.



#85 TakeAStepBack

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 03:58 PM

Without reading this whole thread, does anyone believe there was a conspiracy involved for 9/11?

 

:picardfp:

 

Only fools believe things they can not prove. On the other hand, it's easier to fool someone than it is to convince them they have been fooled.



#86 Depends

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 04:07 PM

Thanks for the post, Depends

 

There was a ban though in Germany, outcomes debatable and unknowable, of course.  There was no ban on private ownership of guns in S.U.? What about Turkey and the Armenian Genocide? China? Guatemala?

 

Others here, I'm sure, are better able to refer to historical data, as I'm not versed in it.

There was not a general ban in Germany.  Jews were banned, along with a host of other freedoms.

As far as I know in Soviet Union, the strict gun control laws were in effect prior to Stalin's rise to power.

 

My point is that in most of these cases, the slaughters were done without resistence from the general population.  The propaganda machines convinced otherwise normal citizens that Jews, Gypsys, and others should be rounded up. 

Same thing in Italy.

Same thing with Pol Pot

 

As far as China banning guns, it is really a moot point.  The Chinese population before Mao was starving.  They could not feed themselves.  Gun ownership was next to nil.  Mao won them over with a bowl of rice.

Banning guns in China, circa 1949, is like banning abortion inside Catholic Chuches.



#87 TEO

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 04:12 PM

Propaganda has proven to be an extremely powerful tool.



#88 china cat

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 04:12 PM

There was not a general ban in Germany.  Jews were banned, along with a host of other freedoms.

As far as I know in Soviet Union, the strict gun control laws were in effect prior to Stalin's rise to power.

 

My point is that in most of these cases, the slaughters were done without resistence from the general population.  The propaganda machines convinced otherwise normal citizens that Jews, Gypsys, and others should be rounded up. 

Same thing in Italy.

Same thing with Pol Pot

 

As far as China banning guns, it is really a moot point.  The Chinese population before Mao was starving.  They could not feed themselves.  Gun ownership was next to nil.  Mao won them over with a bowl of rice.

Banning guns in China, circa 1949, is like banning abortion inside Catholic Chuches.

 

very good point

 

" the most powerful nations are not those that have nuclear bombs, but those that control the media. That's where the battle is being fought; that is how you control people's minds." Spike Lee



#89 cheeseweasel

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 12:44 AM

Holy shit.

#90 Tabbooma

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 01:38 AM

:call:   :fierce:



#91 Bone Daddy

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 05:58 PM

I'll give you the twin towers maybe even tower 7 but the pentagon not firing back?

 

http://projectavalon...ck-is-a-Fantasy

 

 



#92 TEO

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 06:24 PM

Came across this when not looking for anything.  Have not looked any deeper into any of it, but it does raise some interesting questions.

 

 

 

"nano thermite, patented at berckley lab, CA, and was used in the foundation
i got info on the incident
leaseholder of WTC with special insurance policy


the five mossad israeli's on nearby roof dressed as arabs with camera equipment set up to record history in the making
Important to note is that shortly after the devastating attacks on American on 11 September 2001, the Bush regime moved to completely militarize the CIA by placing as its Director former US Air Force General Michael Hayden who served in that capacity until February, 2009 when Obama then put in place the former US Army intelligence officer Leon Panetta to run this most powerful of spy agencies. After Panetta, Obama put Americas top general David Petraeus in charge of the CIA barely a week after the aforementioned nuclear attack upon it.

 

The fears of both the Bush and Obama regimes regarding the CIA were due to their complicity in the 11 September 2001 attacks upon America utilizing their al Qaeda terror network headed by their main asset Osama bin Laden, otherwise known by his code name of “Tim Osman,” that was run jointly with Pakistan’s Directorate for Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) and funded by the Saudi royal family.

Important to note is that Russian intelligence services were long aware of the CIA-ISI “Tim Osman” operation after it had been infiltrated by top FSB agent Viktor Bout who delivered to Marvin Bush, President George Bush’s younger brother, and Wirt Walker III, George Bush’s cousin the approximately 15 tonnes of Russian military PVV-5A Plastic Explosive plastic explosives used to bring down the World Trade Center buildings.

 

In our 1 September 2010 report US-Russia Bidding War For 9/11 “Merchant Of Death” Reaches $20 Billion we detailed this sordid plot and, in part, stated:

“Important to note about Marvin Bush and Wirt Walker III is that at the time of the 9/11 attacks they were both directors of the American security company named Stratesec (formally known as Securacom) which was given a $8.3 million contract to help provide security at the World Trade Center and which the weekend prior to the attacks completely closed this massive skyscraper complex for 36 hours to “upgrade” its security system.

 

Now Bout in being curious, to say the least, as to why the Bush Family needed so much Russian explosives for their “upgrade” of the World Trade Center complex was “invited” by Marvin Bush to come to New York City to watch “the big show”, an offer Bout did not refuse. And so the night prior to 9/11 Bout traveled to New York City where he was met by Bush “operatives” working for the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA), who “coincidentally” had scheduled an emergency exercise for the morning of September 11, 2001 that all too soon became real.

 

Bout was given a FEMA security pass that gave him unhindered access to the aftermath of the catastrophic attacks upon the World Trade Center complex which these reports document he took full advantage of. Unfortunately for the Americans though was that Bout’s “visit” wearing his FEMA “credentials” was filmed by FEMA’s official videographer Kurt Sonnenfeld, who was the only film maker given unrestricted access to the 9/11 site." "