I am a fan of reasonable profit. I am not a fan of excessive profits..... how many square feet do you really need? Why TWO boats?
How does ine survive on minimum wage?
Started by
hoagie
, Jan 22 2013 10:36 AM
141 replies to this topic
#52
-
- VibeTribe
- 17,194 posts
Posted 22 January 2013 - 03:43 PM
And workers who try to extort their employers are greedy too. Everyone is greedy when it comes to self interest.
Why would you use the word "extort" when we are talking about the fact that people should be paid enugh money for their time WORKING to pay for a place to live BY THEMSELVES.
The worker is in no position to extort anyone. Their time should equal a living, is what I am saying.
#56
-
- VibeTribe
- 17,194 posts
Posted 22 January 2013 - 03:48 PM
this may be an unreasonable or, at least, unrealistic expectation.
not the last time i will be idealistic.
Maybe the businesses who pay minimum wage should pay a special tax that would be used toward the local food bank or homeless shelter. I mean, while we are talking about extortion.... 
#63
-
- VibeTribe
- 13,486 posts
Posted 22 January 2013 - 04:02 PM
I find ti pretty hilarious that the business owner who tries to earn a profit is greedy, but a worker who thinks that people should earn more money (from the very business of the greedy owner) is a slave to labor. The ironing is absolutely delicious.
Whether you find it funny or not, it's pretty accurate. When the employer is pulling down millions, the employees are in poverty with no health care and are forced to government assistance even though working full time, then yeah, that employer is greedy.
Let's look at Walmart vs. Costco, for example. Walmart actually encourages employees to seek govt aid (it's documented). They only cover a portion of their employees with benefits (which are so spartan that I hesitate to call them benefits) and systematically jiggers the schedule so they keep almost everyone at part time status.
Costco starts all employees at around $17/hr, offers bennies and treats staff like humans.
Now which one has labor unrest, high turnover and virtually no loyalty? Not Costco.
Which one has happier, more productive and therefore far more PROFITABLE employees? Not Walmart.
Which of the owners families makes more than the bottom 30% (conservative estimate) of all American families combined, and has 6 of 11 members in the Forbes top 10? Not Costco.
The Waltons are pretty much poster children for making billions on the backs of the workers they exploit. Disgusting greed, and but one (admittedly egregious) example.
#64
-
- VibeTribe
- 13,486 posts
Posted 22 January 2013 - 04:04 PM
And workers who try to extort their employers are greedy too. Everyone is greedy when it comes to self interest.
If you fail to see the relative nature of this, then you are a large part of the problem.
Making it possible to feed and shelter your kids - not greed.
Wanting another $100million for a new Gulfstream - greed.
Extort?? Do you honestly believe that bullshit?
#69
-
- VibeTribe
- 17,194 posts
Posted 22 January 2013 - 04:08 PM
If you fail to see the relative nature of this, then you are a large part of the problem.
Making it possible to feed and shelter your kids - not greed.
Wanting another $100million for a new Gulfstream - greed.
Extort?? Do you honestly believe that bullshit?
talk about ironic...
#73
-
- VibeTribe
- 17,194 posts
Posted 22 January 2013 - 04:11 PM
Finally, I don't find it idealistic in the slightest to expect a LIVING WAGE in return for your labor.
It is in that it IS unrealistic to expect business owners to pay more than they legally have to to employees. Which is why they need to raise that minimum wage legally, or somehow eliminate employee exploitation.
#74
-
- VibeTribe
- 13,486 posts
Posted 22 January 2013 - 04:12 PM
But its the greedy Walton families fault.
Yup. They could pay their employees a living wage without raising prices one bit, and still make billions. The fact that they don't makes them greedy pricks.
If they changed that, and I was in the market for cheap, throwaway Chinese shit and bad groceries, and didn't mind the local economic devastation they bring, I might even go there.
#75
-
- VibeTribe
- 13,486 posts
Posted 22 January 2013 - 04:13 PM
It is in that it IS unrealistic to expect business owners to pay more than they legally have to to employees. Which is why they need to raise that minimum wage legally, or somehow eliminate employee exploitation.
Come at it from whichever direction you'd like/is needed. Just come at it.
#76
-
- VibeTribe
- 16,761 posts
Posted 22 January 2013 - 04:15 PM
Yup. They could pay their employees a living wage without raising prices one bit, and still make billions. The fact that they don't makes them greedy pricks.
If they changed that, and I was in the market for cheap, throwaway Chinese shit and bad groceries, and didn't mind the local economic devastation they bring, I might even go there.
So the people that work there and the people that shop there are void of any responsibility. It's all the Walton families fault. I love the one sided blinder blame game.
#79
-
- VibeTribe
- 1,869 posts
- LocationFoxboro MA
Posted 22 January 2013 - 04:18 PM
When i hear business owners defending their paying minimum wage as the only way they can turn a Profit, it makes me ill. These people are the worst type of employers imho.
Supply and demand....it takes two people to enter into an employee employer relationship. If someone doesn't want to work for shitty wages they can opt to NOT take the crappy job offer. Or.....maybe their skill set sucks....or maybe the job market sucks because the once good jobs are now overseas where people will work for less than a dollar an hour. My twisted point is that beer for breakfast is delightful on a snow day.
#82
-
- VibeTribe
- 13,486 posts
Posted 22 January 2013 - 04:25 PM
So the people that work there and the people that shop there are void of any responsibility. It's all the Walton families fault. I love the one sided blinder blame game.
I'll give them 5% of the blame to humor you.
Hmmm.... once WM has driven out all the competition, where the hell are people supposed to work? Unless they have the means to relocate, which would pretty much mean they weren't going to work for WM to begin with.
Nobody ITT is any more one sided than you, friend.
#86
-
- VibeGuide
-
- 15,799 posts
VibeGuide
Posted 22 January 2013 - 04:30 PM
Competition as in the family run stores that often did not hire outside the family? How about those with criminal records that many other companies will not hire?
Walmart seems to reflect the current state and values of a portion of our society.
#90
-
- VibeTribe
- 16,761 posts
Posted 22 January 2013 - 04:59 PM
I'll give them 5% of the blame to humor you.
Hmmm.... once WM has driven out all the competition, where the hell are people supposed to work? Unless they have the means to relocate, which would pretty much mean they weren't going to work for WM to begin with.
Nobody ITT is any more one sided than you, friend.
Right, I'm the guy who blames one family for the failures of society. 
#91
-
- VibeTribe
- 13,486 posts
Posted 22 January 2013 - 05:06 PM
Right, I'm the guy who blames one family for the failures of society.
Nor am I. I didn't say anything about society. I use the Waltons as a particularly vivid example of the problem. There are plenty of others.
And you're kidding yourself if you don't think you're wearing blinders as much as anyone else.
#98
-
- VibeTribe
- 5,535 posts
- LocationDirectly south of Seaside Park..across the sound
Posted 22 January 2013 - 06:38 PM
Good points but...
Most towns in or around metro areas have codes about raising livestock in residential areas. If you rent its hard to burn wood when the landlord controls the heating equipment. Its hard to get to the library and good will store if you have no car. 
Grow and raise your own food. Make your own clothing, shop at the Salvation Army & Goodwill, burn wood for heat, read books from public libraries, etc...
#99
-
- VibeTribe
- 3,468 posts
Posted 22 January 2013 - 06:41 PM
i don't think there's anything odd about offering a livable wage to adult employees, the govt shouldn't have to "make" you do that if you have any ethics at all. Unfortunately the Walmart example is more the norm these days than the mom and pop shop who cared about the community they lived in. And yes, of course it's the fault of the greedy walmart children that their workers are living in poverty and their company exploits govt programs. Who else's fault would that be? Take a smaller paycheck and spread the wealth to the actual people keeping your stores in operation. Spreading the wealth to the people who keep your company running seems to be the obvious thing to do in fair and ethical business practices. Not valuing your employees because you don't have to is greedy, and greed is a big problem in the unemployment situation at the moment.
Seems the same people who blame the employee for taking the job and therefore deserving not to earn a livable wage are the same people who berate folks for being on unemployment or welfare. make up your mind, do you want folks to work or not?
