286 replies to this topic

[hoagie]

So thjis comes down to, in the event that the govt comes to attack you, you want to be able to kill some of them before they eventually kill you.  

 

k, got it.

[Wende]

So, you tryuly believe that you would have a fighting chance against the gov't if they wanted to come and take you away tomorrow?  

 

I understand wanting to put up a good fight, and maybe take some with you...is that what you are talking about?

Hoagie....for me, it really isn't about the facing the government.  I have no idea what youre talking about with this.  This is what I mean about being stuck in TV mode.  WTF?  It's more about letting us be free...free to defend ourselves against anything and whatever.  Free to make our own choices and free to protect our homes.  Guns and weapons are a part of life.  If you're going to take away guns...then you take them from everyone.  Not just certain ones. 

Leaving others armed?   How does that do anyone any good at all?  I'm home alone, you want to come rob me...you know I'm unarmed.  You're gonna probably rob me no questions asked.

But if you want to rob me, and you "know" taht I'm armed.  You might not be so willing to break in and rob me.

 

Nothing to do with FACING THE BIG BAD US OF A IN A FACEOFF. 

[Tim the Beek]

I have no problem with folks disagreeing on this issue.

 

I have a meaningful one with people suggesting instability/"need for help" on the part folks who recognize that the Second Amendment exists for the reasons for which it was included in the Bill of Rights.

 

"The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government." -Thomas Jefferson

[Tim the Beek]

So, you tryuly believe that you would have a fighting chance against the gov't if they wanted to come and take you away tomorrow?  

 

I understand wanting to put up a good fight, and maybe take some with you...is that what you are talking about?

 

US Colonies in the 1700s

Vietnam in the 1960's and '70s

Afghanistan in the 1980s

 

Need I go on?

[Jwheelz]

Thread goes to shit as soon as moved to P&R, hmm... no offense but ad hominem is not debate, therefore not very interesting to take part in....

[hoagie]

US Colonies in the 1700s

Vietnam in the 1960's and '70s

Afghanistan in the 1980s

 

Need I go on?

 

please do!

[Tim the Beek]

 

History has plenty of examples of folks/groups overcoming overwhelming odds/being outgunned, etc.

 

Not saying it's even likely that the populace would win against an oppressive government. But if you deny it the tools to do so if it ever becomes necessary, then it would have no chance at all.

[Tim the Beek]

Thread goes to shit as soon as moved to P&R, hmm... no offense but ad hominem is not debate, therefore not very interesting to take part in....

 

 

Dick.

 

[concert andy]

We've already got a government that has targeted Americans for death, we already have a government that feels it's acceptable to execute people based on the belief they may be guilty of something and yet some of you people still do not want to believe that we might, just might, need the ability to protect ourselves from that government in the future.

 

Sorry, but those of you foolish enough to not believe that history repeats itself are the ones that need some help.

 

 

This did not happen.  You did not try to use your drone agenda to further your point here?

[Joker]

My point here is that our government has targeted and executed Americans already and there's no reason to think they won't do it again. In this case the manner in which they do so is irrelevant. 

[Jwheelz]

Dick.

 

 

that's me, got me pegged

[Jwheelz]

My point here is that our government has targeted and executed Americans already and there's no reason to think they won't do it again. In this case the manner in which they do so is irrelevant. 

 

Point understood, but I believe there is a difference between a targeted assassination of an individual who has expressed extreme anti-American views and has also made terroristic threats against the United States... I'm aware such accusations could be leveled against people who aren't truly making terroristic threats and turned around to be used against political enemies alone, but I still think that that is a long logical leap from let's say rounding up minorities and political enemies and executing them en masse. if I truly felt that that was a real threat I would feel different but I don't feel that way... I know you weren't talking to me but you could disagree with my assessment or anyone else who feels that way but it's not something you could persuade me to feel differently about, nor can I expect to persuade you to feel any differently.

[concert andy]

My point here is that our government has targeted and executed Americans already and there's no reason to think they won't do it again. In this case the manner in which they do so is irrelevant. 

 

 

My point is you used drones as a reference after you stated you did not and said I was spewing shit about you.

 

Period, nothing else matters in my last post where I quoted you.

[Joker]

Point understood, but I believe there is a difference between a targeted assassination of an individual who has expressed extreme anti-American views and has also made terroristic threats against the United States... I'm aware such accusations could be leveled against people who aren't truly making terroristic threats and turned around to be used against political enemies alone, but I still think that that is a long logical leap from let's say rounding up minorities and political enemies and executing them en masse. if I truly felt that that was a real threat I would feel different but I don't feel that way... I know you weren't talking to me but you could disagree with my assessment or anyone else who feels that way but it's not something you could persuade me to feel differently about, nor can I expect to persuade you to feel any differently.

As far as I know the 16 year old son, who was targeted and killed days after his father was killed, hadn't expressed any extreme anti-American views or made threats against the US. It's possible he did but that's for another thread.

 

I don't see the leap as being that long once it becomes acceptable for them to start executing citizens based on what those citizens might or might not do or say, all the while not having to justify or even explain their reasons for doing so.

[concert andy]

As far as I know the 16 year old son, who was targeted and killed days after his father was killed, hadn't expressed any extreme anti-American views or made threats against the US. It's possible he did but that's for another thread.

 

I don't see the leap as being that long once it becomes acceptable for them to start executing citizens based on what those citizens might or might not do or say, all the while not having to justify or even explain their reasons for doing so.

 

I do not disagree with anything, even after my post.

 

Editing...

 

I may or may not agree with your linking of the two.

 

My point is before my original injection you used Obama and drones as a reference to further your point about the 2nd amendment and guns.

 

In the other thread you said you did not, and I was spewing shit.  What is so hard for you to understand?

[Joker]

My point is you used drones as a reference after you stated you did not and said I was spewing shit about you.

 

Period, nothing else matters in my last post where I quoted you.

No, I didn't use drones as a reference, I used the fact they were killing Americans already as a reference to why we might need the ability to protect ourselves from them. Their weapon of choice in carrying out those killings doesn't mean shit as far as that's concerned

[concert andy]

No, I didn't use drones as a reference, I used the fact they were killing Americans already as a reference to why we might need the ability to protect ourselves from them. Their weapon of choice in carrying out those killings doesn't mean shit as far as that's concerned

 

And how was that kid killed?

 

Using a drone.

 

Ding Ding Ding Ding Ding !!!!!!  You win a prize.

[china cat]

More people have died at the hands of their govt than by foreign enemies.

 

http://www.developme...governments.pdf

 

 

So, it will always be other countries that enact violence against their people, it could never happen in the U.S?  Psychopathic proclivities, power insatiability,  and evil-doing's existence is contingent on geographic location? U.S. leaders are exempt from this type of behavior? Why are people so sure of this?

[Tim the Beek]

More people have died at the hands of their govt than by foreign enemies.

 

http://www.developme...governments.pdf

 

 

So, it will always be other countries that enact violence against their people, it could never happen n the U.S.  Psychopathic proclivities, power insatiability,  and evil-doing's existence is contingent on geographic location? U.S. leaders are exempt from this type of behavior? Why are people so sure of this?

 

This.

[Joker]

More people have died at the hands of their govt than by foreign enemies.

 

http://www.developme...governments.pdf

 

 

So, it will always be other countries that enact violence against their people, it could never happen n the U.S.  Psychopathic proclivities, power insatiability,  and evil-doing's existence is contingent on geographic location? U.S. leaders are exempt from this type of behavior? Why are people so sure of this?

I have a hard time thinking folks would feel the way they do now if Bush and Cheney were still running the show. 

[Depends]

so every time there is a murder, we should suspect that the govt is involved?  And we should never believe the story that medical examiners give?  Nor the information of an entire community?  But rather call out someone, like Mr Rosen, to be a fraud, a liar, and a poor actor?

[Tim the Beek]

so every time there is a murder, we should suspect that the govt is involved?  And we should never believe the story that medical examiners give?  Nor the information of an entire community?  But rather call out someone, like Mr Rosen, to be a fraud, a liar, and a poor actor?

 

Have no idea how anyone would come to this conclusion from what's been written here, brother. None.

[china cat]

so every time there is a murder, we should suspect that the govt is involved?  And we should never believe the story that medical examiners give?  Nor the information of an entire community?  But rather call out someone, like Mr Rosen, to be a fraud, a liar, and a poor actor?

 

Nope, don't think we should suspect that - that is an awful and potentially distorted way to view the world.

 

I'd just offer that we view our govt. through a cautious lens, accept the possibility that they don't always have the people's best interests at heart, and hold them accountable when they attempt (and sometimes, sadly, succeed) at infringing on our rights. 

[Depends]

Have no idea how anyone would come to this conclusion from what's been written here, brother. None.

slow reaction from when this was in another thread....

[JBetty]

slow reaction from when this was in another thread....

 

 

 

 

lololdpeople

[Depends]

prolly should use REFRESH more often, prolly

[Depends]

lololdpeople

hush up you, or I'll smack you silly.  After my afternoon nap.

[Tim the Beek]

[MeOmYo]

[JBetty]

hush up you, or I'll smack you silly.  

 

 

Briar patch'd

[china cat]

Govt and Govt agencies have proven time and time again that they will propagandize us and use us when it serves their agenda--they will abandon us. I do not trust those in positions of power - I simply don't. And I think it wise not to. Not paranoid, appropriately skeptical, me thinks

 

Example of what they've done to our troops - total betrayal:

 

http://www.cnn.com/2...ects/index.html

 

 

 

And, while some of this has been verified, I cannot vouch for all of it but there's enough here worth considering:

 

Partial list of U.S. Government Atrocities on Its Own People
 
1931 Dr. Cornelius Rhoads, under the auspices of the Rockefeller Institute for Medical Investigations, infects human subjects with cancer cells. He later goes on to establish the U.S. Army Biological Warfare facilities in Maryland, Utah, and Panama, and is named to the U.S. Atomic Energy Commission. While there, he begins a series of radiation exposure experiments on American soldiers and civilian hospital patients.  
 
1932 The Tuskegee Syphilis Study begins. 200 black men diagnosed with syphilis are never told of their illness, are denied treatment, and instead are used as human guinea pigs in order to follow the progression and symptoms of the disease. They all subsequently die from syphilis, their families never told that they could have been treated.  
 
1935 The Pellagra Incident. After millions of individuals die from Pellagra over a span of two decades, the U.S. Public Health Service finally acts to stem the disease. The director of the agency admits it had known for at least 20 years that Pellagra is caused by a niacin deficiency but failed to act since most of the deaths occurred within poverty-stricken black populations.  
 
1940 Four hundred prisoners in Chicago are infected with Malaria in order to study the effects of new and experimental ***** to combat the disease. Nazi doctors later on trial at Nuremberg cite this American study to defend their own actions during the Holocaust.  
 
1942 Chemical Warfare Services begins mustard gas experiments on approximately 4,000 servicemen. The experiments continue until 1945 and made use of Seventh Day Adventists who chose to become human guinea pigs rather than serve on active duty.  
 
1943 In response to Japan's full-scale germ warfare program, the U.S. begins research on biological weapons at Fort Detrick, MD.  
 
1944 U.S. Navy uses human subjects to test gas masks and clothing. Individuals were locked in a gas chamber and exposed to mustard gas and lewisite.  
 
1945 Project Paperclip is initiated. The U.S. State Department, Army intelligence, and the CIA recruit Nazi scientists and offer them immunity and secret identities in exchange for work on top secret government projects in the United States. 'Program F' is implemented by the U.S. Atomic Energy Commission (AEC). This is the most extensive U.S. study of the health effects of fluoride, which was the key chemical component in atomic bomb production. One of the most toxic chemicals known to man, fluoride, it is found, causes marked adverse effects to the central nervous system but much of the information is squelched in the name of national security because of fear that lawsuits would undermine full-scale production of atomic bombs.  
 
1946 Patients in VA hospitals are used as guinea pigs for medical experiments. In order to allay suspicions, the order is given to change the word 'experiments' to 'investigations' or 'observations' whenever reporting a medical study performed in one of the nation's veteran's hospitals.  
 
1947 Colonel E.E. Kirpatrick of the U.S. Atomic Energy Commission issues a secret document (Document 07075001, January 8, 1947) stating that the agency will begin administering intravenous ***** of radioactive substances to human subjects. The CIA begins its study of *** as a potential weapon for use by American intelligence. Human subjects (both civilian and military) are used with and without their knowledge.  
 
1950 Department of Defense begins plans to detonate nuclear weapons in desert areas and monitor downwind residents for medical problems and mortality rates. In an experiment to determine how susceptible an American city would be to biological attack, the U.S. Navy sprays a cloud of bacteria from ships over San Francisco. Monitoring devices are situated throughout the city in order to test the extent of infection. Many residents become ill with pneumonia-like symptoms.  Department of Defense begins open air tests using disease-producing bacteria and viruses. Tests last through 1969 and there is concern that people in the surrounding areas have been exposed.  
 
1953 U.S. military releases clouds of zinc cadmium sulfide gas over Winnipeg, St. Louis, Minneapolis, Fort Wayne, the Monocacy River Valley in Maryland, and Leesburg, Virginia. Their intent is to determine how efficiently they could disperse chemical agents. Joint Army - Navy - CIA experiments are conducted in which tens of thousands fo people in New York and San Francisco are exposed to the airborne germs Serratia marcescens and Bacillus glogigii. CIA initiates Project MKULTRA. This is an eleven year research program designed to produce and test ***** and biological agents that would be used for mind control and behavior modification. Six of the sub projects involved testing the agents on unwitting human beings.  
 
1955 The CIA, in an experiment to test its ability to infect human populations with biological agents, releases a bacteria withdrawn from the ArmyÕs biological warfare arsenal over Tampa Bay, FL. Army Chemical Corps continues *** research, studying its potential use as a chemical incapacitating agent. More than 1,000 Americans participate in the tests, which continue until 1958.  
 
1956 U.S. military releases mosquitoes infected with Yellow Fever over Savannah, GA. and Avon Park, FL. Following each test, Army agents posing as public health officials test victims for effects.  
 
1958 *** is tested on 95 volunteers at the Army's Chemical Warfare Laboratories for its effect on intelligence.  
 
1960 The Army Assistant Chief-of-Staff for Intelligence (ACSI) authorizes field testing of *** in Europe and the Far East. Testing of the European population is code named Project THIRDCHANCE; testing of the Asian population is code named Project DERBY HAT.  
 
1965 Project CIA and Department of Defense begin Project MKSEARCH, a program to develop capability to manipulate human behavior through the use of mind-altering *****.  
 
1965 Prisoners at the Holmesburg State Prison in Philadelphia are subjected to dioxin, the highly toxic chemical component of Agent Orange used in Viet Nam. The men are later studied for development of cancer, which indicates that Agent Orange had been a suspected carcinogen all along.  
 
1966 CIA initiates Project MKOFTEN, a program to test the toxicological effects of certain ***** on humans and animals. U.S. Army dispenses Bacillus subtilis variant niger throughout the New York City subway system. More than a million civilians are exposed when Army scientists drop light-bulbs filled with the bacteria on to ventilation grates.  
 
1967 CIA and Department of Defense implement Project MKNAOMI, successor to MKULTRA and designed to maintain, stockpile and test biological and chemical weapons.  
 
1968 CIA experiments with the possibility of poisoning drinking water by injecting chemicals into the water supply of the FDA in Washington, D.C.  
 
1969 Dr. Robert MacMahan of the Department of Defense requests from Congress $10 million to develop, within 5 to 10 years, a synthetic biological agent to which no natural immunity exists.  
 
1970 Funding for the synthetic biological agent is obtained under H.R. 15090. The project, under the supervision of the CIA, is carried out by the Special Operations Division at Fort Detrick, the Army's top secret biological weapons facility. Speculation is raised that molecular biology techniques are used to produce AIDS- like viruses. United States intensifies its development of 'ethnic weapons' (Military Review, Nov., 1970), designed to selectively target and eliminate specific ethnic groups who are susceptible due to genetic differences and variations in DNA.  
 
1975 The virus section of Fort DetrickÕs Center for Biological Warfare Research is renamed the Fredrick Cancer Research Facilities and placed under the supervision of the National Cancer Institute (NCI). It is here that a special virus cancer program is initiated by the U.S. Navy, purportedly to develop cancer-causing viruses. It is also here that retro-virologist isolate a virus to which no immunity exists. It is later named HTLV (Human T-cell Leukemia Virus).  
 
1977 Senate hearings on Health and Scientific Research confirm that 239 populated areas had been contaminated with biological agents between 1949 and 1969. Some of the areas included San Francisco, Washington, D.C., Key West, Panama City, Minneapolis, and St. Louis.  
 
1978 Experimental Hepatitis B vaccine trials, conducted by the CDC, begin in New York, Los Angeles and San Francisco. Ads for research subjects specifically ask for promiscuous homosexual men.  
 
1981 First cases of AIDS are confirmed in homosexual men in New York, Los Angeles and San Francisco, triggering speculation that AIDS may have been introduced via the Hepatitis B vaccine.  
 
1985 According to the journal Science (227:173-177), HTLV and VISNA, a fatal sheep virus, are very similar, indicating a close taxonomic and evolutionary relationship.  
 
1986 According to the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences (83:4007-4011), HIV and VISNA are highly similar and share all structural elements, except for a small segment which is nearly identical to HTLV. This leads to speculation that HTLV and VISNA may have been linked to produce a new retro virus to which no natural immunity exists. A report to Congress reveals that the U.S. Government's current generation of biological agents includes: modified viruses, naturally occurring toxins, and agents that are altered through genetic engineering to change immunological character and prevent treatment by all existing vaccines.  
 
1987 Department of Defense admits that, despite a treaty banning research and development of biological agents, it continues to operate research facilities at 127 facilities and universities around the nation.  
 
1990 More than 1500 six-month old black and Hispanic babies in Los Angeles are given an 'experimental' measles vaccine that had never been licensed for use in the United States. CDC later admits that parents were never informed that the vaccine being injected to their children was experimental.  
 
1994 With a technique called 'gene tracking,' Dr. Garth Nicolson at the MD Anderson Cancer Center in Houston, TX. discovers that many returning Desert Storm veterans are infected with an altered strain of Mycoplasma incognitus, a microbe commonly used in the production of biological weapons. Incorporated into its molecular structure is 40 percent of the HIV protein coat, indicating that it had been man-made. Senator John D. Rockefeller issues a report revealing that for at least 50 years the Department of Defense has used hundreds of thousands of military personnel in human experiments and for intentional exposure to dangerous substances. Materials include mustard and nerve gas, ionizing radiation, psycho chemicals, hallucinogens, and ***** used during the Gulf War.  
 
1995 U.S. Government admits that it had offered Japanese war criminals and scientists who had performed human medical experiments salaries and immunity from prosecution in exchange for data on biological warfare research. Dr. Garth Nicolson, uncovers evidence that the biological agents used during the Gulf War had been manufactured in Houston, Tx. and Boca Raton, FL. And tested on prisoners in the Texas Department of Corrections.  
 
1996 Department of Defense admits that Desert Storm soldiers were exposed to chemical agents.  
 
1997 Eighty-eight members of Congress sign a letter demanding an investigation into bio-weapons use & Gulf War Syndrome.  
 

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[TakeAStepBack]

[TakeAStepBack]

Another shooting in a texas school. I bet an assault rifle was present/used.

[little frog]

I have no problem with folks disagreeing on this issue.

 

I have a meaningful one with people suggesting instability/"need for help" on the part folks who recognize that the Second Amendment exists for the reasons for which it was included in the Bill of Rights.

 

"The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government." -Thomas Jefferson

 

 

let's try to remember the context in which that was written .. we were one of many colonies being exploited by motherland England and after many years of protesting taxation without representation citizens of this colony decided to break away and become an independent nation.

 

When it happened again that some states wanted to become an independent nation there was a bloody civil war and in the end, after 10's of thousands americans were dead, no one broke away. I would think that in this day and age, if we don't agree with what the govt is doing we can find less blood thirsty ways to solve our problems, like voting, changing laws, working together to create a peaceful prosperous future for our children. 

 

peace by way of violence is not the answer, and paranoia with guns is certainly going to get 100's of thousands of americans dead in the next civil war. here's to hoping

[Spidergawd]

"The real purpose of the Second Amendment was to ensure that the ‘state armies’ – ‘the militia’ – would be maintained for the defense of the state. … The very language of the Second Amendment refutes any argument that it was intended to guarantee every citizen an unfettered right to any kind of weapon he or she desires." – Warren E. Burger, former chief justice of the United States.

[Tim the Beek]

I would think that in this day and age, if we don't agree with what the govt is doing we can find less blood thirsty ways to solve our problems...

 

 

"...as a last resort..." -Thomas Jefferson

 

As in, if all other options have failed.

I've organized vigils in support of peace in wartime. Been a vegetarian for more than 99% of the last 25 years. Bloodthirsty is the last word anyone who knows me would associate with me or my ideas in any way.

One more thing, and then I'll try to refrain from discussing this any further, as it seems more and more a pointless discussion...if you want to ban gun ownership, or certain types of guns in this country, then take action to change the Constitution. While I wouldn't agree with the outcome, it's the only way to do what you want to get done and not leave a stain on our history and way of life.
 

[concert andy]

Another shooting in a texas school. I bet an assault rifle was present/used.

 

What good does this a post like this do?

[TakeAStepBack]

What good does this a post like this do?

 

What good does this a post like this do?

[JBetty]

rubber & glue'd

[TakeAStepBack]

"The real purpose of the Second Amendment was to ensure that the ‘state armies’ – ‘the militia’ – would be maintained for the defense of the state. … The very language of the Second Amendment refutes any argument that it was intended to guarantee every citizen an unfettered right to any kind of weapon he or she desires." – Warren E. Burger, former chief justice of the United States.

 

As ratified by the States and authenticated by Thomas Jefferson, Secretary of State:

A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

 

He's got a pretty cool opinion on that there second amendment.

[concert andy]

What good does this a post like this do?

 

 

Must have jumped the shark.

[TakeAStepBack]

By leaps and bounds long ago, sir. LONG ago....

[little frog]

As in, if all other options have failed.

I've organized vigils in support of peace in wartime. Been a vegetarian for more than 99% of the last 25 years. Bloodthirsty is the last word anyone who knows me would associate with me or my ideas in any way.

One more thing, and then I'll try to refrain from discussing this any further, as it seems more and more a pointless discussion...if you want to ban gun ownership, or certain types of guns in this country, then take action to change the Constitution. While I wouldn't agree with the outcome, it's the only way to do what you want to get done and not leave a stain on our history and way of life.
 

 

i'm saying, it was used "as a last resort" supposedly by the south when the north wanted to take away their right to own slaves and they felt it was their right to secede. it ended badly.

 

we are no longer a colony being exploited by the motherland as we were when such strong sentiments were uttered by our founding fathers. The civil war was the second amendment in action, no?

 

we can certainly try it again and there are plenty of folks out there who seem to want to, but I am not one of them. If we were invaded by an outside govt who wanted to take us over, we already have a well armed militia and many who would join it to defend our land.

 

I don't think you are personally a blood thirsty person Tim, but I'm trying to put into perspective the sentiment you and many others have been stating.

[MeOmYo]

now we are a country being exploited by our government and their corporate masters

[china cat]

i'm saying, it was used "as a last resort" supposedly by the south when the north wanted to take away their right to own slaves and they felt it was their right to secede. it ended badly.

 

we are no longer a colony being exploited by the motherland

maybe we are being exploited in other ways, maybe it will get worse.. 1st, 4th, 6th Amendments eroded and some now concerned about 2nd as well

as we were when such strong sentiments were uttered by our founding fathers. The civil war was the second amendment in action, no?

 

we can certainly try it again and there are plenty of folks out there who seem to want to,

"want to" or willing to if need be?

but I am not one of them. If we were invaded by an outside govt who wanted to take us over, we already have a well armed militia and many who would join it to defend our land.

 

I don't think you are personally a blood thirsty person Tim, but I'm trying to put into perspective the sentiment you and many others have been stating.

and if we are "invaded" by our own govt, what would you suggest?

[little frog]

maybe we are being exploited in other ways, maybe it will get worse.. 1st, 4th, 6th Amendments eroded and some now concerned about 2nd as well

"want to" or willing to if need be?

and if we are "invaded" by our own govt, what would you suggest?

 

 

would you like to shoot people? do you think thousands of dead Americans will make you feel better and feel better represented by your govt?

[china cat]

would you like to shoot people? do you think thousands of dead Americans will make you feel better and feel better represented by your govt?

 

of course not, that wasn't the question though.

[china cat]

I'm headed to work. Also, bowing out of the thread - no problem debating and considering ideas just not sure there is reason to continue to do so in this thread.

 

Still curious as to why people who know other countries and other govts have brutalized their own people fail to consider the possibility that could happen here, and, if it does, what solutions they might offer?

[Wende]

.

[Tim the Beek]

would you like to shoot people? do you think thousands of dead Americans will make you feel better and feel better represented by your govt?

 

That's it! Actually, everyone I've met from this thread who's posted in support of the Second Amendment has confessed to me that he or she wants to shoot people. And to see thousands of countrymen and women dead on the ground.

 

Oh, wait...no they haven't. They're some of the kindest, most peaceful people I've ever known. And probably less likely to pick up a weapon and harm someone in day to day life than many I know on the "anti-gun" side.

 

I can't tell you how weary I am of some people on the other side of this issue either making outlandish, broad brush assumptions about us, or using language which is emotionally baiting to, well, I really don't know what it is they're trying to do.

Maybe it's a good tactic though. Makes me less likely to want to exercise my free speech rights going forward...

Done.