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The Daily Show’s Jon Stewart rips ‘paranoid’ gun advocates


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#51 concert andy

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 05:18 PM

We've tried more than once. And gun violence was decreasing before and after (2004 being the sunset) the 94 assault ban, so it's sort non sequitur.

 

Please provide examples of other laws that tried to curb gun violence.

 

Also, you never answered if smoking was a preemptive legislation that falls under your definition.



#52 TakeAStepBack

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 05:23 PM

The National Firearms Act.

 

Smoking legislation is done from the state and locality governance, not the federal governance.



#53 TakeAStepBack

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 05:24 PM

If you want your state to further restrict firearms, that is both your and your states perogative.



#54 concert andy

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 05:32 PM

If you want your state to further restrict firearms, that is both your and your states perogative.

 

But going the federal way is wrong?



#55 concert andy

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 05:33 PM

The National Firearms Act.

 

Smoking legislation is done from the state and locality governance, not the federal governance.

 

Banning machine guns is not a good idea?  (Valentine's day massacre was the cause for this, I believe).

 

Aren't we all for that?

 

Saw off shotguns?  that can be up for debate.

 

But this was to curb gangster style gun use.

 

Did it work?  



#56 TakeAStepBack

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 06:47 PM

Are there still gangs shooting at each other?



#57 TakeAStepBack

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 06:49 PM

Mostly I dont care about full auto being banned before the grandfathering because full auto is useless. And a semi-auto firearm can still be turned full auto if someone wishes to do so. It's still useless. It's not even worth the battle.



#58 concert andy

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 06:54 PM

Are there still gangs shooting at each other?

 

Yes, bloods and crips, latin kings.



#59 TakeAStepBack

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 06:55 PM

Do any of them have full auto, silencers, etc?



#60 TakeAStepBack

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 06:56 PM

Then it didn't work, now did it?



#61 concert andy

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 06:57 PM

Mostly I dont care about full auto being banned before the grandfathering because full auto is useless. And a semi-auto firearm can still be turned full auto if someone wishes to do so. It's still useless. It's not even worth the battle.

 

 

As mentioned in another thread.  This is a popular argument.  That guns can be turned into automatic from semi.

 

Well, in the 10 minute info piece, towards the end a police officer (prolly a high ranking officer) from Detroit testifies to congress.  Please note Detroit was the one time murder capital of the US.

 

He stated that they collected guns from crimes, gangs, murders, buy backs, etc over a 12 year period, and not once did they find a gun that was converted to an automatic.



#62 concert andy

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 06:58 PM

Do any of them have full auto, silencers, etc?

 

Are these real arguments?



#63 concert andy

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 06:59 PM

Do any of them have full auto, silencers, etc?

 

What does this have to do with this discussion.



#64 TakeAStepBack

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 07:00 PM

So because no one did turn one, that they collected, into full auto, that means the ban worked? Or is it that full auto is useless and unnecessary to bother with?



#65 TakeAStepBack

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 07:00 PM

What does this have to do with this discussion.

What was the point of the National Firearms Act?



#66 MeOmYo

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 07:04 PM

As mentioned in another thread.  This is a popular argument.  That guns can be turned into automatic from semi.

 

Well, in the 10 minute info piece, towards the end a police officer (prolly a high ranking officer) from Detroit testifies to congress.  Please note Detroit was the one time murder capital of the US.

 

He stated that they collected guns from crimes, gangs, murders, buy backs, etc over a 12 year period, and not once did they find a gun that was converted to an automatic.

 

Off topic, but IMO these gun buybacks are the silliest thing going.  Give a flat amount for buying guns back.  In the news clips etc. from these things all I see are antiquated POS guns that are worth little to nothing.  Hell, if they did a buyback around here I would probably sell some back because the gubmint will give me more than the thing is worth.  Then I can take my profits and buy something else.



#67 concert andy

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 07:06 PM

So because no one did turn one, that they collected, into full auto, that means the ban worked? Or is it that full auto is useless and unnecessary to bother with?

 

It stated that in a big city over a 12 year period, not one gun was turned into a automatic.  

 

Implying that it is not happening as often as you imply it is.



#68 concert andy

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 07:10 PM

What was the point of the National Firearms Act?

 

 

Sometimes your responses are not organized and out of context, hence me asking.

 

No idea if it worked in the 30's, I was not alive.

 

But do lots of americans have an automatic machine gun now a days?  That is my counter point to your question.  I say no, most weapons in the US are semi automatic.

 

I do not believe that gangs have some auto guns in general.  A few here and there, sure, but does that imply it is or isnt working?



#69 TakeAStepBack

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 07:12 PM

Off topic, but IMO these gun buybacks are the silliest thing going.  Give a flat amount for buying guns back.  In the news clips etc. from these things all I see are antiquated POS guns that are worth little to nothing.  Hell, if they did a buyback around here I would probably sell some back because the gubmint will give me more than the thing is worth.  Then I can take my profits and buy something else.

Buy a new gun. :lmao:



#70 concert andy

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 07:13 PM

Off topic, but IMO these gun buybacks are the silliest thing going.  Give a flat amount for buying guns back.  In the news clips etc. from these things all I see are antiquated POS guns that are worth little to nothing.  Hell, if they did a buyback around here I would probably sell some back because the gubmint will give me more than the thing is worth.  Then I can take my profits and buy something else.

 

Agreed, especially when the gubmint ain't got no money to pay bills, but they got money to buy crappy guns.



#71 TakeAStepBack

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 07:24 PM

Sometimes your responses are not organized and out of context, hence me asking.

 

No idea if it worked in the 30's, I was not alive.

 

But do lots of americans have an automatic machine gun now a days?  That is my counter point to your question.  I say no, most weapons in the US are semi automatic.

 

I do not believe that gangs have some auto guns in general.  A few here and there, sure, but does that imply it is or isnt working?

 



#72 concert andy

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 07:27 PM

 

Looks like someone did what you suggest, 14 years ago.

 

I said I am sure it happens, just not as often as you suggest it is happening.



#73 TakeAStepBack

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 07:31 PM

So did the NFA actually pull these types of weapons from people who dont give a fuck about the law? Nope!

 

All these types of regulations, controls or bans will do is put law abiding citizens at a disadvantage in the event a tool like a firearm becomes needed as protection against someone who gives zero fucks about the laws.. Just like in that video.



#74 concert andy

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 07:35 PM

So did the NFA actually pull these types of weapons from people who dont give a fuck about the law? Nope!

 

All these types of regulations, controls or bans will do is put law abiding citizens at a disadvantage in the event a tool like a firearm becomes needed as protection against someone who gives zero fucks about the laws.. Just like in that video.

 

That happens all the time, even if you have a bat or a hammer.  If someone is disturbed and wants to cause harm, they will.

 

But you site them like they are the norm (1997 is when that youtube video is from), when they are not.  But keep on informing yourself and everyone else who will listen.



#75 concert andy

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 07:37 PM

Nothing we can do, so why bother.

 

4819152502_Head_in_sand_answer_2_xlarge.



#76 MeOmYo

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 07:37 PM

I remember that robbery.  The police were going to local gun stores to get bigger guns during the bank robbery because they were so heavily outgunned by 2 people.  those were 2 certifiably crazy fuckers.  that's what these guys did though is rob banks.  with that loot, you can get whatever you want regardless of the laws.



#77 TakeAStepBack

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 07:38 PM

Yes, the 1997 video shows two men who have modified banned weapons, rounds and armor and used them. 2 federal weapons bans imposed at the same time and yet this happens. :picardfp:



#78 TakeAStepBack

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 07:40 PM

Nothing we can do, so why bother.

 

4819152502_Head_in_sand_answer_2_xlarge.

 

I already offereed a solution. One that requires society take a look at itself instead of once again, blaming someone or something else.



#79 concert andy

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 07:55 PM

I already offereed a solution. One that requires society take a look at itself instead of once again, blaming someone or something else.

 

And I stated that is a cop out, because most Americans do, and the ones you refer to are the minority.

 

That is not a solution, it is the obvious, and what the remainder of people should be doing.

 

 

That all said, how does one implement this solution.  Hence it is not a solution because it is not implementable.



#80 TakeAStepBack

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 08:04 PM

And I stated that is a cop out, because most Americans do, and the ones you refer to are the minority.

 

That is not a solution, it is the obvious, and what the remainder of people should be doing.

 

 

That all said, how does one implement this solution.  Hence it is not a solution because it is not implementable.

 

 

That is fucking pure bullshit. This entire nation just re-elected a lawless international criminal (assassination and murder of foreigners and American citizens without due process) The MAJORITY of America backs this criminal and the corruption of congress. More than half of the nation recieves handouts or so called "entitlements" of some kind and every time something like Newton happens, there is one giant collective party trying to blame an object and demand it be controlled. This country has no accountability from the highest offices of the land, down to the single mother of many that receives checks and still has more children. Most people live well above their means adn refuse to make changes, or to hold elected official responsible for failing to balance teh budget...eiither city/state or federal. And you want me to believe that it is a minority of people who do not take responsibility?

 

The rule of law and our constitution needs to be followed. People need to take responsibility for themselves and their actions and stop looking to externalize everything that goes wrong and fix blame on something or someone else besides themselves. It's a fucking epidemic in this country adn all we can ever manage to do is put a fucking band aid over a breach in the dam.

 

Insanity



#81 concert andy

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 08:18 PM

And this has to do with gun control how?

 

Also, when I was discussing ideas on taxing bullets, or whatever, in that thread where I was bombarded with back lash, which was fine.

 

Didn't you state that the majority of gun owners were responsible.  That is what my comment was about, not your tangent.

 

No one is denying the 2nd amendment.  But you seem to think I am.  All I am saying is what Jon Stewart stated.  Lets get working on a complex solution from all walks of life, instead of shunning the other side.

 

 

 

 

Now, please tell me how your solution is implementable?



#82 concert andy

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 08:44 PM

That is fucking pure bullshit. This entire nation just re-elected a lawless international criminal (assassination and murder of foreigners and American citizens without due process) The MAJORITY of America backs this criminal and the corruption of congress. More than half of the nation recieves handouts or so called "entitlements" of some kind and every time something like Newton happens, there is one giant collective party trying to blame an object and demand it be controlled. This country has no accountability from the highest offices of the land, down to the single mother of many that receives checks and still has more children. Most people live well above their means adn refuse to make changes, or to hold elected official responsible for failing to balance teh budget...eiither city/state or federal. And you want me to believe that it is a minority of people who do not take responsibility?

 

The rule of law and our constitution needs to be followed. People need to take responsibility for themselves and their actions and stop looking to externalize everything that goes wrong and fix blame on something or someone else besides themselves. It's a fucking epidemic in this country adn all we can ever manage to do is put a fucking band aid over a breach in the dam.

 

Insanity

 

 

BTW  I agree with any of this in general, but real world versus what we want the world to be is the issue, imo.



#83 MeOmYo

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 08:44 PM

I read "implementable" as "legislation". 



#84 TakeAStepBack

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 08:46 PM

It has everything to do with gun control. Because a gun didn't shoot those children in Newton. A person did.  And why should we even give a fuck about those children when it is prefectly acceptable for the president to slaughter children in the name of "national security" via bombs. Our priorities are in the fucking shitter.

 

 

And I have absolutely no intentions of "working toward a solution" when the solution is simply a call to do something regardless of results. You've already stated that in the thread. That intention and doing something, even if it doesn't work, is better than doing nothing. If' we're going on a feeling, I think we shoud give everyone a free Obama gun. Including children.



#85 TakeAStepBack

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 08:48 PM

I read "implementable" as "legislation". 

 

That's right. People want some kind of law passed so they feel better about what happened. They can say "See, we did something. YES WE DID!"

 

Even if that something only affects law abiding citizens and does nothing more to it's original intention. Which is exactly what it will come down to anyway.



#86 concert andy

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 08:56 PM

It has everything to do with gun control. Because a gun didn't shoot those children in Newton. A person did.  And why should we even give a fuck about those children when it is prefectly acceptable for the president to slaughter children in the name of "national security" via bombs. Our priorities are in the fucking shitter.

 

 

And I have absolutely no intentions of "working toward a solution" when the solution is simply a call to do something regardless of results. You've already stated that in the thread. That intention and doing something, even if it doesn't work, is better than doing nothing. If' we're going on a feeling, I think we shoud give everyone a free Obama gun. Including children.

 

That is a big leap with the dot connecting.  IMO.

 

And an absurd ending to that post.



#87 concert andy

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 09:00 PM

That's right. People want some kind of law passed so they feel better about what happened. They can say "See, we did something. YES WE DID!"

 

Even if that something only affects law abiding citizens and does nothing more to it's original intention. Which is exactly what it will come down to anyway.

 

No, I am suggesting having tough conversations, and compromising, so that something may get done.  No one said there is an easy solution, but if everyone would work together, instead of finger pointing and blaming everyone else (as you stated is an america problem).

 

I stated, that if just 1 person does not die due to gun violence, then it is successful.

 

 

 

 

Now on to the irony of all your arguments.  You want personal responsibility to be the starting point of any solution.  That also means, voting, which you remove yourself because of the failures of the system.  So, that would mean you would have to vote, and be part of the process, because that is part of the responsibility you refer to.



#88 syd_25

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 09:09 PM

Unfortunately IMO there is no new firearm regulation that would have prevented what happened in Newton.  I believe we need to look at this from a mental heath standpoint.   That said I think the NRA's idea of a mental illness database is a horrible idea

 

If a parent is aware their child has an issue why would they give them any sort of access to a firearm?



#89 MeOmYo

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 09:09 PM

In general, I believe there has been compromise from gun advocates on certain issues.  Part of the problem I believe is people trying to come up with solutions don't understand the laws in the first place.  Anti gunners do not want compromise, they want to convince gun advocates that they don't need certain things and they should be banned or implement tracking systems that will effectively price people out of gun ownership.

 

Just because gun advocates do not want things banned does not mean they are not partaking in "tough conversation" and and not compromising.



#90 Tim the Beek

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 09:11 PM

That also means, voting, which you remove yourself because of the failures of the system.  So, that would mean you would have to vote, and be part of the process, because that is part of the responsibility you refer to.

 



#91 concert andy

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 09:11 PM

Unfortunately IMO there is no new firearm regulation that would have prevented what happened in Newton.  I believe we need to look at this from a mental heath standpoint.   That said I think the NRA's idea of a mental illness database is a horrible idea

 

If a parent is aware their child has an issue why would they give them any sort of access to a firearm?

 

And Mental health should be part of the discussion, not just guns, not just ammo, every single aspect needs to be discussed and if there is anything we can do, we should.

 

That is all.

 

 

In this case, I feel it was to help bring him out of his shell.  Then when he got older and regressed, it was to late.  Hind sight.

 

I do not harp on the children of Newtown, while a tragedy I consider all gun deaths a tragedy.



#92 concert andy

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 09:12 PM

 

Well, you do not preach what has to be done, or why ideas or bad.  

 

That is the irony of TASB.

 

You usually add insightful input to an existing discussion.  Much different situation.



#93 concert andy

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 09:15 PM

In general, I believe there has been compromise from gun advocates on certain issues.  Part of the problem I believe is people trying to come up with solutions don't understand the laws in the first place.  Anti gunners do not want compromise, they want to convince gun advocates that they don't need certain things and they should be banned or implement tracking systems that will effectively price people out of gun ownership.

 

Just because gun advocates do not want things banned does not mean they are not partaking in "tough conversation" and and not compromising.

 

I agree with he first part, because I was guilty of this with my ideas a couple of weeks ago.  

 

I have not heard many gun advocates with ideas, or engaging, but if they are, awesome.

 

I just want a some committee of all walks of life and experience to sit down and discuss this like adults, with out politics, fear or Obama hate getting int he way.



#94 Tim the Beek

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 09:16 PM

Well, you do not preach what has to be done, or why ideas or bad.  

 

That is the irony of TASB.

 

You usually add insightful input to an existing discussion.  Much different situation.

 

Just pointing out what I think was a very subjective statement on your part...equally subjective is my opinion that my voting for the choices we're given these days would actually be irresponsible of me.

JMO. :funny1:



#95 Tim the Beek

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 09:17 PM

I just want a some committee of all walks of life and experience to sit down and discuss this like adults, with out politics, fear or Obama hate getting int he way.

 

I'm down. :)



#96 concert andy

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 09:18 PM

Just pointing out what I think was a very subjective statement on your part...equally subjective is my opinion that my voting for the choices we're given these days would actually be irresponsible of me.

JMO. :funny1:

 

 

of course it is, but it was not an in general comment, it was a TASB comment, but when I saw you reply I thought, damn he didnt vote either.  :lol:



#97 concert andy

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 09:19 PM

I'm down. :)

 

That is all Jon Stewart was saying, but TASB stated he was looking for work at MSNBC.  Which is why I think his comments are ironic.



#98 Tim the Beek

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 09:20 PM

:lol:

 

All I can say about it is that I'm lookin' forward to some in person time with TASB sometime soon. He's a hoot to party with.



#99 concert andy

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 09:21 PM

:lol:

 

All I can say about it is that I'm lookin' forward to some in person time with TASB sometime soon. He's a hoot to party with.

 

That would be fun.  I need a good hoot.



#100 Tim the Beek

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 09:24 PM

Think about StrangeCreek.

 

He and Freh better be at StrangeCreek... :joker: