U cant prevent crazy. But you can mitigate it with proper treatment. You cant prevent death... Murder can be preventable... it's possible that something as simple as a gun vault might have averted Sandy Hook. Kids can die early. Yeah, well they shouldn't. They just shouldn't.
If someone does themselves in...
Started by
PeaceFrog
, Jan 03 2013 09:25 AM
93 replies to this topic
#51
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- VibeTribe
- 18,109 posts
Posted 03 January 2013 - 07:28 PM
#66
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- VibeTribe
- 2,149 posts
Posted 04 January 2013 - 06:39 PM
Why is any death considered a tragedy, as we all will die sometime?
'tragedy' is word used by humans to describe the feelings surrounding an event, for example death. for right or wrong, the majority of humans find death to be tragic. surely not all people will view death in the same light. the importance of life outside of human opinion is a different matter of philosophy.
#69
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- VibeTribe
- 3,468 posts
Posted 04 January 2013 - 06:58 PM
death is not a tragedy, it is the normal course of all life on earth. this is just part of your journey. violent death however has a completely different tone and leaves a soul in a completely different place, without closure, so to speak.
taking your life in a moment of despair will not send you to a peaceful/empty/silent place. in other words, it will not solve your pain, even if no one on earth cares that you died, you are still you, with or without a human body. resolution of the pain during this part of your journey is much easier while you are still in your body. Religious beliefs nothwithstanding, this is the science of it ... your human body is just where you live right now, and earth is just part of your journey.
how you lived while you were here is more a factor on how easy it will be to transition to the next part of your journey, not so much how you died.
taking your life in a moment of despair will not send you to a peaceful/empty/silent place. in other words, it will not solve your pain, even if no one on earth cares that you died, you are still you, with or without a human body. resolution of the pain during this part of your journey is much easier while you are still in your body. Religious beliefs nothwithstanding, this is the science of it ... your human body is just where you live right now, and earth is just part of your journey.
how you lived while you were here is more a factor on how easy it will be to transition to the next part of your journey, not so much how you died.
#72
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- VibeTribe
- 17,237 posts
Posted 04 January 2013 - 09:29 PM
death is not a tragedy, it is the normal course of all life on earth. this is just part of your journey. violent death however has a completely different tone and leaves a soul in a completely different place, without closure, so to speak.
taking your life in a moment of despair will not send you to a peaceful/empty/silent place. in other words, it will not solve your pain, even if no one on earth cares that you died, you are still you, with or without a human body. resolution of the pain during this part of your journey is much easier while you are still in your body. Religious beliefs nothwithstanding, this is the science of it ... your human body is just where you live right now, and earth is just part of your journey.
how you lived while you were here is more a factor on how easy it will be to transition to the next part of your journey, not so much how you died.
Death and murder existed well before the human intellect. Carnivores kill to live. Is it a tragedy if a coyote killed and ate Royal's cat one night?
#77
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- VibeTribe
- 17,237 posts
Posted 04 January 2013 - 09:36 PM
Depends.
Was the small child a serial killer?
Is that more in line with the answer you are looking for?
Im looking more for a killing is a killing is a killing, human child life being taken isnt any more or less tragic than any other creature dieing violently. the only difference is human emotion, which is an illusion.
#79
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- VibeTribe
- 4,209 posts
Posted 04 January 2013 - 09:41 PM
Im looking more for a killing is a killing is a killing, human child life being taken isnt any more or less tragic than any other creature dieing violently. the only difference is human emotion, which is an illusion.
so you are a cold blooded killer then, who feels no emotion?
I doubt it, but good to know
#80
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- VibeTribe
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Posted 04 January 2013 - 09:44 PM
so you are a cold blooded killer then, who feels no emotion?
I doubt it, but good to know
While I do feel sad that children have to die, there are so many children that die all over the world that I dont feel anything for. Does this make me cold? Or just uninformed?
And what if everything happens for a reason? How does tragedy fit into that paradigm?
#83
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- VibeTribe
- 18,109 posts
Posted 04 January 2013 - 09:54 PM
While I do feel sad that children have to die, there are so many children that die all over the world that I dont feel anything for. Does this make me cold? Or just uninformed?
And what if everything happens for a reason? How does tragedy fit into that paradigm?
that whole "everything happens for a reason" bullshit is bullshit. Especially when used to explain unexpected end of life.
it's a cop out. Often used by people who also rely on pretend entities to get them thru... stuff.
#84
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- VibeTribe
- 8,284 posts
- LocationWhisky a Go Go
Posted 04 January 2013 - 09:56 PM
death is not a tragedy, it is the normal course of all life on earth. this is just part of your journey. violent death however has a completely different tone and leaves a soul in a completely different place, without closure, so to speak.
taking your life in a moment of despair will not send you to a peaceful/empty/silent place. in other words, it will not solve your pain, even if no one on earth cares that you died, you are still you, with or without a human body. resolution of the pain during this part of your journey is much easier while you are still in your body. Religious beliefs nothwithstanding, this is the science of it ... your human body is just where you live right now, and earth is just part of your journey.
how you lived while you were here is more a factor on how easy it will be to transition to the next part of your journey, not so much how you died.
I appreciate everyone's comments -- the foolish, and the serious, and the hypothetical.
I think this one is especially nice.
#85
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- VibeTribe
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- LocationWhisky a Go Go
Posted 04 January 2013 - 10:01 PM
Is it a tragedy if a golden eagle swoops down and grabs a small child, and eats it?
For humans who cared about the child either directly, or indirectly by means of empathy, it's a tragedy. For the eagle, it's a big score!
Im looking more for a killing is a killing is a killing, human child life being taken isnt any more or less tragic than any other creature dieing violently. the only difference is human emotion, which is an illusion.
I understand what you mean about human emotion being an "illusion"
I somewhat agree with that, but that doesn't mean I think it's unimportant or meaningless. Yes, emotion is not a concrete concept... but I think it has value... I think... at least for survival anyway...
#86
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- VibeTribe
- 5,241 posts
- LocationNutmeg State
Posted 04 January 2013 - 10:02 PM
I tend to think human opinion counts for nothing in the scheme of things. I tend to think human emotions are "illusions" in a way....
so anger, fear, sorrow, love, desire, regret, etc., just illusions? interesting position... my opinion is even if our emotions can be reduced to chemical processes and neurotransmitters they aren't illusions... they are adaptations which evolved to help us navigate our interconnected and social communities which have helped us survive for hundreds of thousands of years... not easily understood, irrational? I'll give you all that, but I don't think they are illusions...
of course since human opinion counts for nothing in the scheme of things...
#90
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- VibeTribe
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- LocationNutmeg State
Posted 04 January 2013 - 10:16 PM
That gets into complex epistemological questions... our perspective could be flawed as it is based on our sensory capabilities as well as a very abstract form of self-awareness... we use our senses to take measurements of the world beyond our bodies and also our own bodies and then build a mental map within our consciousness which is in actuality what we're interacting with. But I also think that our emotions are part of that map. Not simply what is this, but what is this and what does it tell me. There is truth in this statement that we only see our own perspectives, we are forced to use imperfect media like language and art and image and sound, music even, to communicate our perspective to others and for them to communicate their perspectives to us. My feeling on that is if there is no truth to our perspectives why do we develop the means of trying to show others our own perspective? There has to be truth to it otherwise we would not have enough in common with each other to gain even the flawed and limited understanding which we do have to work with. But the thing that's fun about taking the discussion to that level is there are no answers, just our best guesses as individuals. So yes there is a possibility our entire perspective is flawed, I'm more willing to believe that parts of our perspective are flawed, but that doesn't discount the value of the entire thing. I actually tend to think the more rational parts of our minds are what is more flawed than the intuitive, but there's that opinion thing again 
#91
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- VibeTribe
- 8,284 posts
- LocationWhisky a Go Go
Posted 04 January 2013 - 10:21 PM
good post Jwheelz... you've got the wheelz in my head spinning.
intuition, instinct, what is right and wrong?
I just think that there are certain things we agree upon... but then there are always exceptions, and it is all basically founded on what we define as morals (or even ethics, if you want to keep it secular), which is based upon human emotion.
wow. I think I'm just going to observe this thread for a while. I didn't expect it to get so intense, but that's awesome... it's nice to think now and again.
intuition, instinct, what is right and wrong?
I just think that there are certain things we agree upon... but then there are always exceptions, and it is all basically founded on what we define as morals (or even ethics, if you want to keep it secular), which is based upon human emotion.
wow. I think I'm just going to observe this thread for a while. I didn't expect it to get so intense, but that's awesome... it's nice to think now and again.
#93
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- VibeTribe
- 8,284 posts
- LocationWhisky a Go Go
Posted 04 January 2013 - 10:25 PM
nothing too personal. I mean, we are all in the same boat... experiencing death, or friends threatening suicide... it was just a conversation I started that took off into serious territory.
although, the do myself in the ass was also pretty classic. you gotta appreciate a funny joke.
although, the do myself in the ass was also pretty classic. you gotta appreciate a funny joke.
#94
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- VibeTribe
- 5,241 posts
- LocationNutmeg State
Posted 04 January 2013 - 10:35 PM
nothing too personal. I mean, we are all in the same boat... experiencing death, or friends threatening suicide... it was just a conversation I started that took off into serious territory.
although, the do myself in the ass was also pretty classic. you gotta appreciate a funny joke.
from ass to mouth to epistemology, we have it all at the gathering of the vibes
