Jump to content



Photo
- - - - -

A sensitive debate


  • Please log in to reply
152 replies to this topic

#101 TheDHJ

TheDHJ
  • VibeTribe
  • 31,637 posts
  • LocationSouthern Colorado

Posted 27 December 2012 - 03:07 AM

Are you writing a paper on the subject and need info?

#102 Indigo Adventurer

Indigo Adventurer
  • VibeTribe
  • 344 posts
  • Locationin the hearts and minds of many

Posted 27 December 2012 - 03:17 AM

No I was having a discussion/debate with a friend (off the boards) and the discussion was very intense between us with a lot of different facets off of it so I thought it would make a great discussion topic. I am pretty close with the people we were referencing in particular when the discussion began between my friend and I but I thought it might make a good topic all around. Hence why I keep throwing out different questions to engage more view points. Oh I just love discussions regarding personal opinions on various topics. I suck with trivia so I can't get into things that come down to remembering dates and facts but matters of the heart and mind I am all over! I do the research when I want to know something, I certainly don't like to be ignorant by choice... I just have a terribly spotty memory and forget facts... it's a curse for someone who loves debate so very much. Never even got to get into debate in HS or college because of it. But I digress. I was hoping to get a good discussion going and get some good counters to my side of it while maybe gaining a few good sides to strengthen my point outside the forums :D

#103 little frog

little frog
  • VibeTribe
  • 3,626 posts

Posted 27 December 2012 - 04:02 AM

That is my point- does it have to be? Why is it so important to be part of the commitment? Can healthy relationships function if that isn't a part of their relationship? Why is that particular commitment so important to the stability of a relationship? I did get some points earlier about just having the ability to choose not to give in to desires in order to show the other person they are more important than those desires. A very good point. But still, I believe each person should still retain their right to be themselves even in marriage or relationships. And sexual desire is a part of ones self. If the desire doesn't coincide does that end the relationship? Or is that something that should be worked through. I feel like marriage is so important and so is self fulfilment that both should be able to coexist through honesty and trust. There can be no cheating if there is no jealousy because there is absolute trust and faith in each other.


i think that's part of the discussion that should happen before the vows are taken, not after. it might not be important to some couples, and again, if they agreed to this and will both be fulfilled in that situation, that's great. Cheating is in the eye of the beholder, not the cheater. This is something couples need to agree upon up front.

I don't think it's fair to guilt the unwilling partner into accepting a situation that is completely unfulfilling and potenitally hurtful to them by shaming them with a jealousy and self fulfillment argument. That's emotional manipulation and even more unhealthy than cheating.

Yes, intimacy is a very very big part of romantic relationships, religion has nothing to do with that. Trying to remove it or trying to convince yourself that it isn't an important part of the relationship seems like denial to me, especially if the vows given and taken included vows of fidelity.

Trust and faith are up for interpretation in this situation. one partner trusted that they would be the only partner and had faith their partner would not stray. what trust and faith are you speaking of when that promise goes out the window? Are you going to reinvent "faith" and "trust" to fit the situation?

Honestly, it sounds like one of the partners wants to keep shopping, but still wants someone familiar to fall back on if/when the new thing isn't exciting anymore, no matter how the other partner feels. I doubt that situation makes for a healthy loving trusting long lasting relationship. It can't work if both parties are not COMPLETELY and ABSOLUTELY fulfilled in that situation. You can't make that compromise just to make the other person happy and still have a healthy relationship. Intimacy and sexual fidelity are just too important in romance.

#104 gregoir

gregoir
  • VibeTribe
  • 25,671 posts
  • LocationAbove The Waves

Posted 27 December 2012 - 04:18 AM

You sound like a close minded conservative judging people on what goes on in their personal relationships. I don't believe in god does that mean I cant get married either because REALLY marriage is about joining two people before god. :rolleyes:


We judge each other every day. Just like you are judging my views as being too close minded/conservative and judgemental :wink:

#105 Ginger Snap

Ginger Snap
  • VibeTribe
  • 12,721 posts

Posted 27 December 2012 - 04:35 AM

We judge each other every day. Just like you are judging my views as being too close minded/conservative and judgemental :wink:


You're right, you're right. My bad. Try this:

You sound like a conservative judging people on what goes on in their personal relationships. I don't believe in god does that mean I cant get married either because REALLY marriage is about joining two people before god. :rolleyes:


Now it's just an observation.

#106 gregoir

gregoir
  • VibeTribe
  • 25,671 posts
  • LocationAbove The Waves

Posted 27 December 2012 - 04:48 AM

You're right, you're right. My bad. Try this:



Now it's just an observation.


you can observe or judge whatever you want about me. I'll still grind you leg at the end of the day. :pimp:

#107 Ginger Snap

Ginger Snap
  • VibeTribe
  • 12,721 posts

Posted 27 December 2012 - 04:57 AM

promise you wont shave right? :naughty:

#108 gregoir

gregoir
  • VibeTribe
  • 25,671 posts
  • LocationAbove The Waves

Posted 27 December 2012 - 05:03 AM

promise you wont shave right? :naughty:


:lol:

#109 deadheadskier

deadheadskier
  • VibeTribe
  • 11,242 posts

Posted 27 December 2012 - 06:29 AM

So a friend and I are having a discussion and I thought the expansiveness of it seemed like something open to mass opinion. I will save my side of it for later but I would like to get some opinion here. Perhaps it might shed some insight into our conversation.

Can anyone explain to me why if someone does not live in any sort of religious manner, bears little to no faith in most religions specifically Christian, Catholic, or any of the like, why monogamy in marriage is necessary?



While throughout modern history government has taken it upon itself to decide who can marry and what said married person can and cannot do; and while religion has had even stricter definitions, I'm pretty sure monogamy predates both of those institutions. While religion, law and desire for societal acceptance might be the driving factor for some people's choice to be monogamous, it's not the case for all who choose to be monogamous.

Hell, look at nature. There are some (not many) other species of animals that live monogamous lives. A Swan may wear black and white, but I don't think they consult the pope or a judge as to why they remain faithful to 1 partner. ;)



What is the major argument? What purpose does it serve?



The only reason there is an argument and the only purpose it serves is that some people wish to project their belief system on others with a goal of recruiting acceptance of their own point of view. That's pretty much the case for all human arguments, except some issues such as marriage, monogamy, homosexuality, abortion are such hot buttons that the goal of the arguers is not to simply recruit acceptance of their point of view, but a desire for others to conform to such views.

Are you for monogamy in marriage? Against it? Indifferent? It's each couple's own business?


I'm for monogamy in my own marriage. I do think it's each couple's own business.


Does anyone have a non-monogamous marriage? Care to share some insight?


I have a monogamous marriage, but I have been non-monogamous at times in my life. I've had the one night stands. I've "sexually dated" in my past where I haven't been sexually exclusive with one woman or they haven't been sexually exclusive with me. Neither of those situations lasted very long. The momentary pleasure lacked enduring fulfillment, so I kept moving on until I found my beautiful wife who coincidentally just woke up and walked by me naked and my immediate thought was this is the only woman I want. Felt that way for six and a half years now. :heart:

#110 Indigo Adventurer

Indigo Adventurer
  • VibeTribe
  • 344 posts
  • Locationin the hearts and minds of many

Posted 27 December 2012 - 01:55 PM

i think that's part of the discussion that should happen before the vows are taken, not after. it might not be important to some couples, and again, if they agreed to this and will both be fulfilled in that situation, that's great. Cheating is in the eye of the beholder, not the cheater. This is something couples need to agree upon up front.

I don't think it's fair to guilt the unwilling partner into accepting a situation that is completely unfulfilling and potenitally hurtful to them by shaming them with a jealousy and self fulfillment argument. That's emotional manipulation and even more unhealthy than cheating.

Yes, intimacy is a very very big part of romantic relationships, religion has nothing to do with that. Trying to remove it or trying to convince yourself that it isn't an important part of the relationship seems like denial to me, especially if the vows given and taken included vows of fidelity.

Trust and faith are up for interpretation in this situation. one partner trusted that they would be the only partner and had faith their partner would not stray. what trust and faith are you speaking of when that promise goes out the window? Are you going to reinvent "faith" and "trust" to fit the situation?

Honestly, it sounds like one of the partners wants to keep shopping, but still wants someone familiar to fall back on if/when the new thing isn't exciting anymore, no matter how the other partner feels. I doubt that situation makes for a healthy loving trusting long lasting relationship. It can't work if both parties are not COMPLETELY and ABSOLUTELY fulfilled in that situation. You can't make that compromise just to make the other person happy and still have a healthy relationship. Intimacy and sexual fidelity are just too important in romance.


1st part- I love the way that was put- short and simple.

2nd part- That is the idea, reinventing the guidelines. I feel like many people commit to a monogamous relationship because they are too afraid to try anything else when it might be beneficial to explore all parts of yourself even when you are married to someone. The two of you should dance through the world together letting each other do and be an feel and fulfil desires. I never could understand why being with someone mentally and emotionally meant the end of the physical exploration in life. People change throughout life. What if when people thought they were falling out of love they were just feeling suppressed and if they were allowed to venture out and have some self exploration? (be it staying out for a night with friends, or a lover, or going out into the woods on a journey of spiritualism.... whatever it is that the core "YOU" requires to satisfy it's desires and let them go so they don't fester and stress out.) A simple desire when denied can turn into a longing and over the years that longing eats away at your sense of self. You become this melded, weakened version of yourself, abiding by opposed limits because someone else is too afraid to confront emotions like courage and jealousy in their own selves that they feel the need to possess the other person. It's incredibly damaging and it is the reason I have seen relationships flip flop between on and off again. They love the person but they need to be themselves and that person won't let them. The friends I am referring to he also knew that she had this part to herself. When HE entered the vows he assumed she would just change or suddenly thinking of him she would magically no longer believe in non-monogamy. It didn't come in to play until years down the road after being married when she felt like she was denying a huge piece of herself and became depressed. I watched her go through the many stages of her depression before finally stepping up and saying this part of herself didn't disappear and it's time they talked about it some more because she was really having trouble with this. They agreed on giving it a try but since then he kept having trouble with the idea. I advised her to tell him to explore those feelings and see what he came up with. He was afraid that she is attractive and good with social situations and would have plenty of interest for her. He was afraid he wouldn't get the same kind of interest for him and it would turn into a situation of her flitting off with other people while he stays home. I feel like that would be his choice and that he should have the opportunity even if he chooses not to use it out of self conscious insecurities, and be encouraged to go out and be free to function as an individual with the security of having someone at home who you love and loves you. Raychelle (one of the friends I'm talking about) and I see eye to eye on this one, it's not about the sex, it's about not having that limitation as well as others. It's about not being possessed or having to suppress parts of yourself. It's about processing those desires, fulfilling them and moving on before they fester in you. It's about the person you're with understanding that even if that isn't what they believe in themselves or if they are afraid of it, they love the other person enough to not make them live their life in wanting. If my husband wanted something with someone or had an attraction I would rather he get to act on it. Then when the excitement is over, I'll be here. I'll always be here. That was what I promised him when I married him. Not that I would always be here unless he did something that made me feel insecure and jealous. No. I said I would always be here, I would always encourage him to be his best. If that is part of him and will make him happy, then I am more than willing to let him do whatever he wants.

I wouldn't want to marry any other man, raise a child with him, share christmas mornings or special life events, absolutely my heart belongs to my husband but it would be a lie to say I haven't wanted things that he either doesn't do well or doesn't even know to do. Hell there are probably things that I want that I don't even know I want yet because someone has yet to show me. It doesn't mean I love my husband less or am need to be validated by sex.

A couple my husband and I used to be friends with almost split up this past year because of something so stupid. He went out with some buddies and one of them tends to, what's that stupid word? Ball? I don't know what he calls it but he flashes lots of money and gets a limo to take them around all night just because. Fine. They are cruising around and a few girls hop in. They spend the time cruising around doing whatever it is they do and then drop everyone off for the night. John decided to not tell Nichole because she would flip out. Wrong move because she found out a couple months later and left him for a few months. Took their son and left all because he wanted to feel like John again for a couple hours. He laughed, he felt like himself, he felt connected with his friends again, there was excitement to break up his mundane life of work and take care of family. And because he wanted to feel that but he was afraid to tell her about it, he almost lost his practically wife and son. That to me is just so stupid. All because someone said along the line that one man is with one woman and that is it. Then add in that we are pressured into marriage and children "the american dream" that is sought after. When monogamy was set as a requirement of marriage the average life expectancy was 30. Roughly 15 years of marriage 's and that was all people had to deal with. Now with "til death do us part" being in the 70's and 80's people are having to really eat those words. I see a lot relationships fail simply because people are too afraid to confront a few emotions and so they would rather let a great relationship fail than allow a little wiggle room and redefine their relationship. What if we could all be with someone that makes us happy and we could walk through life knowing that there was literally nothing we could do to lose that person. What if the things that threatened your relationship suddenly were no longer there and instead were replaced with honesty and faith in each other to always hold the other in higher regards, to always come home and to be there when it matters most? Bob Marley's wife stayed with him throughout everything and he had multiple children with other people! (for me that is a bit much- I feel like those important life events are what matter and should be between husband and wife)

A lot of people touched on how the person who wants to venture out is the one with the issue but on the other side of the argument what about the unwillingness to let the other person venture? If it is out of fear, jealousy and insecurity that they impose limits on the other than is that any better than the person wanting to explore? Those do not seem like healthy reasons for monogamy. A lot of people would explore it and come to find that it is out of fear that the venturing person will find someone better than them and leave. That fear tells me that most people innately know that humans aren't meant to be monogamous. If you're afraid the person will fall in love with someone else then you are admitting to the believing that there isn't one lover for every person. The idea that there is one true mate isn't truthful. We are designed with so many variables that it's illogical to say we can't love many people, even at the same time. Also to add that most of the animals we have found to be monogamous are truly not. The only true monogamous creature that will not venture outside of it's mate is a parasitic worm usually located within the human body. I forget what it is called actually. I'll have to look that up... Anyway, it has even been observed that the animals we thought to be monogamous in nature will make exceptions in situations such as when the other can't perform sexually.

thoughts?

#111 Eco

Eco
  • VibeTribe
  • 2,109 posts
  • LocationFoxboro MA

Posted 27 December 2012 - 02:23 PM

Lol, reading this thread last night prompted me to ask the person I'm dating about their views on the topic.....glad they are in line with mine! It would of been of Mofo-ing shocker to hear anything else.... I respect those who can have 3ways, gangbangs, partner sharing and whatever else terms but not something I can stomach in a relationship. Plus with STD's, it's sort of a non safe way to play ball...and Jesus is watching....

#112 unbroken_chain

unbroken_chain
  • VibeTribe
  • 18,862 posts

Posted 27 December 2012 - 02:45 PM

I love it when we all mass debate.

#113 Tim the Beek

Tim the Beek
  • VibeTribe
  • 16,142 posts

Posted 27 December 2012 - 02:47 PM

A lot of people touched on how the person who wants to venture out is the one with the issue but on the other side of the argument what about the unwillingness to let the other person venture?

...

thoughts?


If they started out agreeing to be monogamous, and one of them wants to change the rules after their initial agreement, it seems to me that it's on the one who wants to change things to either stick to the original agreement, or move on.

#114 Tim the Beek

Tim the Beek
  • VibeTribe
  • 16,142 posts

Posted 27 December 2012 - 02:50 PM

And without getting into a lot of detail, I'll reiterate...or clarify...I've been down the open marriage road before. It got really painful for everyone involved because of jealousy and fear.

#115 unbroken_chain

unbroken_chain
  • VibeTribe
  • 18,862 posts

Posted 27 December 2012 - 03:03 PM

If they started out agreeing to be monogamous, and one of them wants to change the rules after their initial agreement, it seems to me that it's on the one who wants to change things to either stick to the original agreement, or move on.


in my case once it was either join the party or no more pie.


but that was some GOOD pie....

#116 Indigo Adventurer

Indigo Adventurer
  • VibeTribe
  • 344 posts
  • Locationin the hearts and minds of many

Posted 27 December 2012 - 03:28 PM

If they started out agreeing to be monogamous, and one of them wants to change the rules after their initial agreement, it seems to me that it's on the one who wants to change things to either stick to the original agreement, or move on.


See in this case the person hoped the desire to be non-monogamous would just go away on it's own. I feel like that is entering an agreement under false terms. They never said no or yes one way or the other they simply did not discuss it in detail before getting married but she did bring it up to him before getting married and though they never ironed out an agreement he knew this was something she would want eventually. If he married her anyway hoping it would go away or never come up, can she really be at fault when it does come up? He is a very non confrontational kind of guy- very much like my husband in a lot of way as you'll eventually find out should we meet this year. So rather than deal with the issue then, I am guessing he just hoped it would fade away or based his own self worth in the relationship on whether or not her desire to be non-monogamous would go away. Now they are married, and the issue has come back up. I feel like she stated what she wanted and has been clear with her desires from the get go, even giving it an effort to stay monogamous (which she did for a few years) and when she just wasn't happy suppressing that part of herself and believing in something she didn't believe in she wanted to be true to herself and hoped he would understand. In this situation I feel like she is in the right and they should still be giving it the effort to stay together. There was love there despite this in the beginning there should be love there now. (this has come to not be the case with these two people in particular but in general...) If two love each other in every way and want to be together but don't see eye to eye on this one issue- who wins? who loses? Does it have to be that one or everyone loses? I don't think so. It's a harder path, yes. A less travelled path, yes. A potentially healthy and worth it path if tread right, absolutely. Also a potentially damaging and hurtful path if not tread right.

#117 Java Time

Java Time
  • VibeTribe
  • 10,072 posts
  • Locationthe Island

Posted 27 December 2012 - 03:30 PM

This is sounding more like someone trying to validate extra marital affairs as a necessity and looking for acceptance of the fact to go to their spouse and say "see...it's part of our existence as human beings...it doesn't mean I love you less...quite the contrary..."

:eek1:

#118 JBetty

JBetty
  • VibeTribe
  • 19,774 posts

Posted 27 December 2012 - 03:41 PM

This is sounding more like someone trying to validate extra marital affairs as a necessity and looking for acceptance of the fact to go to their spouse and say "see...it's part of our existence as human beings...it doesn't mean I love you less...quite the contrary..."

:eek1:




I was thinking the same thing, as this was one of my ex's lame excuses for affairs. :rolleyes:

#119 Indigo Adventurer

Indigo Adventurer
  • VibeTribe
  • 344 posts
  • Locationin the hearts and minds of many

Posted 27 December 2012 - 03:50 PM

This is sounding more like someone trying to validate extra marital affairs as a necessity and looking for acceptance of the fact to go to their spouse and say "see...it's part of our existence as human beings...it doesn't mean I love you less...quite the contrary..."

:eek1:


She could be doing something similar to that... I have known her for a while and though she is a great person with some very good ideas she can also be like that at times so I don't rule that out for her either, it's a very good counter my buddy Scott brought up to me yesterday. But it's a matter of perspective I would say. I mean if she hadn't already had this situation be known as a part of herself before the marriage began then yes I would be inclined to say she went off or is thinking of going off and is now looking to have it be okay. But given that she came to me before even talking about this with him originally because she was afraid to bring it up to him for fear he wouldn't understand, I encouraged her to tell him up front that was what she wanted or would want eventually. So I know for a fact she filled him in on what she believed in before they committed to each other. That is why I am so baffled that he can't seem to understand, it's not like she blindsided him. She almost feels like he trapped her in regards to this issue by agreeing to marry her knowing this was a part of her then when it comes up not being willing to truly give it a try. Even though she did it his way for years before finally having the courage to stand up and be honest about herself and desire with him again. I feel like it's only fair that he give it an honest effort rather than let the marriage fail over this. Unfortunately she saw it this way too and he did not. They are divorcing. It is so sad to me that they can't work it out because I remember what they were before this became an issue. She feels duped and he feels like she shouldn't need more than him. This is an example of how people can fail to work through it and come out happy on the other end. She wanted to keep working through it and he wanted to give up because he had to confront some insecurities and some deeper issues he was having. I watched her struggle to work through them with him telling him how happy he could be if he could just let go of these insecurities (a lot of them not having anything to do with the sex part of it- more the fear of ultimately being left alone or not being good enough, or that no one would want him the way they want her)

I feel like if they had worked through all of that they could still be happy now.

#120 TEO

TEO

    VibeGuide

  • VibeGuide
  • 22,876 posts

Posted 27 December 2012 - 03:53 PM

I think if a person is with "the one" there is no room in their intimate relationship for another. There is a difference between being in love with someone and being completed by while completing someone.

#121 Indigo Adventurer

Indigo Adventurer
  • VibeTribe
  • 344 posts
  • Locationin the hearts and minds of many

Posted 27 December 2012 - 04:03 PM

I think if a person is with "the one" there is no room in their intimate relationship for another. There is a difference between being in love with someone and being completed by while completing someone.


What if you don't believe in there being a "one" does that make you unfit for marriage ever?

#122 TEO

TEO

    VibeGuide

  • VibeGuide
  • 22,876 posts

Posted 27 December 2012 - 04:09 PM

What if you don't believe in there being a "one" does that make you unfit for marriage ever?


Not in my view, as adults should be able to make their own terms of their union as long as both agree.

I also think there are many fits, and if one is ready they will find their twin flame during this lifetime.

#123 Ginger Snap

Ginger Snap
  • VibeTribe
  • 12,721 posts

Posted 27 December 2012 - 04:19 PM

I think if a person is with "the one" there is no room in their intimate relationship for another. There is a difference between being in love with someone and being completed by while completing someone.


As if a person isn't already whole? I'm starting to question looking outside oneself to find someone to "complete" them. Just different levels of connection.

#124 TEO

TEO

    VibeGuide

  • VibeGuide
  • 22,876 posts

Posted 27 December 2012 - 04:27 PM

You do need to be complete within yourself. However, it takes both male and female energies to raise the kundalini.

#125 JBetty

JBetty
  • VibeTribe
  • 19,774 posts

Posted 27 December 2012 - 04:35 PM

As if a person isn't already whole? I'm starting to question looking outside oneself to find someone to "complete" them. Just different levels of connection.



levals

#126 Depends

Depends
  • VibeTribe
  • 11,973 posts

Posted 27 December 2012 - 04:48 PM

You do need to be complete within yourself. However, it takes both male and female energies to raise the kundalini.


I raise the kundalini by putting a pillow under her butt... :)

#127 Java Time

Java Time
  • VibeTribe
  • 10,072 posts
  • Locationthe Island

Posted 27 December 2012 - 04:55 PM

She could be doing something similar to that... I have known her for a while and though she is a great person with some very good ideas she can also be like that at times so I don't rule that out for her either, it's a very good counter my buddy Scott brought up to me yesterday. But it's a matter of perspective I would say. I mean if she hadn't already had this situation be known as a part of herself before the marriage began then yes I would be inclined to say she went off or is thinking of going off and is now looking to have it be okay. But given that she came to me before even talking about this with him originally because she was afraid to bring it up to him for fear he wouldn't understand, I encouraged her to tell him up front that was what she wanted or would want eventually. So I know for a fact she filled him in on what she believed in before they committed to each other. That is why I am so baffled that he can't seem to understand, it's not like she blindsided him. She almost feels like he trapped her in regards to this issue by agreeing to marry her knowing this was a part of her then when it comes up not being willing to truly give it a try. Even though she did it his way for years before finally having the courage to stand up and be honest about herself and desire with him again. I feel like it's only fair that he give it an honest effort rather than let the marriage fail over this. Unfortunately she saw it this way too and he did not. They are divorcing. It is so sad to me that they can't work it out because I remember what they were before this became an issue. She feels duped and he feels like she shouldn't need more than him. This is an example of how people can fail to work through it and come out happy on the other end. She wanted to keep working through it and he wanted to give up because he had to confront some insecurities and some deeper issues he was having. I watched her struggle to work through them with him telling him how happy he could be if he could just let go of these insecurities (a lot of them not having anything to do with the sex part of it- more the fear of ultimately being left alone or not being good enough, or that no one would want him the way they want her)

I feel like if they had worked through all of that they could still be happy now.


he may be one of those people that thought he could change her or thought she would not have her same beliefs after marriage. I would say it's on him then if she really told him what the deal was and now he's unwilling to accept it...

#128 Indigo Adventurer

Indigo Adventurer
  • VibeTribe
  • 344 posts
  • Locationin the hearts and minds of many

Posted 27 December 2012 - 05:10 PM

I raise the kundalini by putting a pillow under her butt... :)


Works wonders!
:fritos:

#129 Tim the Beek

Tim the Beek
  • VibeTribe
  • 16,142 posts

Posted 27 December 2012 - 05:13 PM

he may be one of those people that thought he could change her or thought she would not have her same beliefs after marriage. I would say it's on him then if she really told him what the deal was and now he's unwilling to accept it...


Yup. Though it's prolly on both of them to have not been very clear from the start about what they both found acceptable.

#130 Indigo Adventurer

Indigo Adventurer
  • VibeTribe
  • 344 posts
  • Locationin the hearts and minds of many

Posted 27 December 2012 - 05:16 PM

Yup. Though it's prolly on both of them to have not been very clear from the start about what they both found acceptable.


so then how do they fix it (assuming they could fix it)

#131 Tim the Beek

Tim the Beek
  • VibeTribe
  • 16,142 posts

Posted 27 December 2012 - 05:33 PM

They may or may not be able to.

I would suggest they get copies of:

http://www.amazon.co...ds=ethical slut

and

Debroah Anapol's Love Without Limits, or whatever her most recent title is.

I would have them read them. And I would have them both take a hard, honest look at themselves, and whether they think they're both capable of doing what the books suggest. Then they should have several long talks.

If they go down that road, it's of utmost importance that they each take really good care of their primary partner. And that they be willing to be more mindful than usual of one another's feelings.

And that they know that as much work they put into doing it "right," that they are still rolling the dice on what the outcome will be.

#132 TEO

TEO

    VibeGuide

  • VibeGuide
  • 22,876 posts

Posted 27 December 2012 - 05:37 PM

(((The one who loves more, the one who loves better.)))

#133 Tim the Beek

Tim the Beek
  • VibeTribe
  • 16,142 posts

Posted 27 December 2012 - 05:39 PM

And while I don't regret my history, I'm overwhelmed with the blessings of my present. :)

#134 Indigo Adventurer

Indigo Adventurer
  • VibeTribe
  • 344 posts
  • Locationin the hearts and minds of many

Posted 27 December 2012 - 05:48 PM

Just got the first one sent to my Kindle, I'll check them out myself and forward the title to her as well. Both look very interesting! I doubt by this point her and her husband are going to be able to fix it, he has some other things that have come up such as becoming overly obsessed with AA and completely flopping from open minded liberal to strict Christian belief. Almost to a scary level. (she came home to find him praying on the kitchen floor throwing his arms to the sky begging for God to forgive someone they knew :huh: ) So they will most likely not be working it out but whatever relationship she finds in the future might benefit from her reading this. Thanks for the links

:rose:

#135 Tim the Beek

Tim the Beek
  • VibeTribe
  • 16,142 posts

Posted 27 December 2012 - 06:04 PM

You're welcome. We're all about the sin here in Boardieland. :funny1:

#136 Jersey Thug

Jersey Thug
  • VibeTribe
  • 12,290 posts

Posted 27 December 2012 - 06:42 PM

while I don't regret my history, I'm overwhelmed with the blessings of my present. :)


i'm a bit late to the party, but this sums up my own feelings on the matter. i've been in long-term relationships in the past (the longest being 14 years) where i thought i'd found someone i could share my life with, but something was most definitely missing.

the moment my husband and i saw The One in each other was a game changer. we talked about monogamy and all of that early on in our relationship (when we were invited to play with other couples) and decided that not only was it not for us, but we'd feel a bit sorry for anyone vying for our attention when we're...together.

there have been lots of times in my life that i may have wished for something more, something different, something extra in my relationship...but with my husband, there's nothing else wanted or needed. we're perfect as we are. no need to complicate matters when what we have is simply beautiful :) :heart:

that being said, the choices others make in their own relationships are none of my business and i don't waste my time approving or disapproving of them. the only time i'd care is when it's non-consensual. i really have no patience for cheaters or anyone who lies to the one person they're sworn to being honest with. if you can't give someone at least that much respect, do everyone a favor and leave.

#137 Tooozday

Tooozday
  • VibeTribe
  • 333 posts

Posted 27 December 2012 - 06:42 PM

<snip> he has some other things that have come up such as becoming overly obsessed with AA and completely flopping from open minded liberal to strict Christian belief. Almost to a scary level. (she came home to find him praying on the kitchen floor throwing his arms to the sky begging for God to forgive someone they knew :huh: )<snip>



It sounds as if there is quite a bit more going on than one person's desire.

#138 Indigo Adventurer

Indigo Adventurer
  • VibeTribe
  • 344 posts
  • Locationin the hearts and minds of many

Posted 27 December 2012 - 06:52 PM

It sounds as if there is quite a bit more going on than one person's desire.



oh yeah! He turned out to be nuts! All along he made her out be the crazy one with this issue then when it came down to it he was the unstable one. There is a lot more he has done to give himself the crazy label while this has all unfolded. The non-monogamy part was just intriguing to me since I have such liberal views on it.

#139 Wende

Wende
  • VibeTribe
  • 4,925 posts

Posted 27 December 2012 - 08:01 PM

IDK, when there are children involved...love and devotion and commitment to only eachother just seems like the right thing for them. Things can get messy in many ways when you start exploring sexually.

Don't get me wrong. I like to party. And sometimes things can happen when doing so, but it's not a habit and it's not sought out and it always get's left there.

#140 Indigo Adventurer

Indigo Adventurer
  • VibeTribe
  • 344 posts
  • Locationin the hearts and minds of many

Posted 27 December 2012 - 08:39 PM

IDK, when there are children involved...love and devotion and commitment to only eachother just seems like the right thing for them. Things can get messy in many ways when you start exploring sexually.

Don't get me wrong. I like to party. And sometimes things can happen when doing so, but it's not a habit and it's not sought out and it always get's left there.


That is kind of the point- to be free to do to just that. Have fun while pursuing something greater with that special person. It's not meant to be a nightly thing, it's just knowing that if the situation arose, you'd be free to act on it without feeling fear or anxiety that you would lose something meaningful over a simple desire. Why does the relationship's worth have to be based on whether you restrained yourself from something you wanted. Sometimes the relationship is worth it but someone wants to let loose or is desiring something sexually that they can't get satisfied with that person or that part of that sexual desire is to experience another person just for a change of energy. I feel like people in relationships including marriage limit themselves simply out of fear of confronting emotions and processing them. I imagine a life where I am free to be without fear or anxiety. By eliminating the possibility of cheating it's one less thing around to hurt me or my significant other should a situation arise where one wants to partake in something outside the two people. It's the idea that we are above silly things like that, we aren't willing to make the other person suffer just to keep ourselves from dealing with difficult emotions. We don't buy in to drama. Imagine if my husband had a great time meeting some girl at a party or a bar and feels fun and free for a night. Then someone comes to me and tells me all about it expecting it to be a huge deal. What if it's not? What if I say oh did he? That's great! was she cute? No fighting, no arguing, no waiting at the door to confront him on his "betrayal" no making him feel he has to hide it from me, no feelings of worthlessness on my part or even wondering whether I am worth it, no wondering if I don't make him happy any more, no feeling like I am no longer "complete" Instead I feel grateful that my love was smiling, was laughing, was happy for a a night and will come home a more complete person. And when he is complete I am complete. How can he complete me if he isn't complete himself? No, in my opinion I would rather him feel free to do what he wants without ever worrying he will lose me because he wants this or that.

#141 TEO

TEO

    VibeGuide

  • VibeGuide
  • 22,876 posts

Posted 27 December 2012 - 08:47 PM

Trust, Respect & Honesty

#142 TEO

TEO

    VibeGuide

  • VibeGuide
  • 22,876 posts

Posted 27 December 2012 - 08:47 PM

Deceit is what so often damages a relationship beyond repair.

#143 Indigo Adventurer

Indigo Adventurer
  • VibeTribe
  • 344 posts
  • Locationin the hearts and minds of many

Posted 27 December 2012 - 08:52 PM

exactly, now if when I asked him did he do something and he lied, that would be different. If he was not safe with her and may possibly have impregnated her or caught something I would be upset, if he told her he loved her or tried to share with her the type of memories he shares with me I would be upset. If he spends more time with her than me and his family then I would be upset. If he takes resources away from "us" to maintain something regular with someone else then that is different. That is a relationship outside of our own and that is not okay. But to party and have fun and leave the fun right where it belongs- in the party scene, then yes I support him fully to explore be himself and have a blast! We are married not dead!

#144 Indigo Adventurer

Indigo Adventurer
  • VibeTribe
  • 344 posts
  • Locationin the hearts and minds of many

Posted 27 December 2012 - 08:55 PM

Am I some rare breed of wife or something? :confused1:

#145 TEO

TEO

    VibeGuide

  • VibeGuide
  • 22,876 posts

Posted 27 December 2012 - 08:59 PM

Perhaps you have common insecurities well in hand (under control.)

#146 Wende

Wende
  • VibeTribe
  • 4,925 posts

Posted 27 December 2012 - 09:02 PM

i wouldn't be married to man that didn't let me be me at all times. And well, I'm a sort of spontaneous, crazy creature with no agenda. I drive him crazy sometimes with it, but he accepts it and ultimately...loves it. :lol:
We have fun. I love him. He's my mate for life. It's great.

#147 Tim the Beek

Tim the Beek
  • VibeTribe
  • 16,142 posts

Posted 27 December 2012 - 09:35 PM

Screw them all; let God sort it out

- US Smarmy Rangers

#148 Tim the Beek

Tim the Beek
  • VibeTribe
  • 16,142 posts

Posted 27 December 2012 - 09:36 PM

:mrgreen:

#149 Indigo Adventurer

Indigo Adventurer
  • VibeTribe
  • 344 posts
  • Locationin the hearts and minds of many

Posted 27 December 2012 - 09:39 PM

Perhaps you have common insecurities well in hand (under control.)


Thanks! I have worked very hard to confront a lot within myself, I am trying to encourage others to do this as well, the world could benefit from a lot less insecurities and anxieties!

i wouldn't be married to man that didn't let me be me at all times. And well, I'm a sort of spontaneous, crazy creature with no agenda. I drive him crazy sometimes with it, but he accepts it and ultimately...loves it. :lol:
We have fun. I love him. He's my mate for life. It's great.


Wende we sound like one in the same! :scatter:

#150 Indigo Adventurer

Indigo Adventurer
  • VibeTribe
  • 344 posts
  • Locationin the hearts and minds of many

Posted 27 December 2012 - 09:43 PM

Screw them all; let God sort it out

- US Smarmy Rangers


God has nothing to do with THIS marriage! (is it getting hot in here? :flame: )