115 replies to this topic

[concert andy]

The only way to stop a bad guy with a gun, is a good guy with a gun.

We need to have every single school in America deploy a protection program, and by that I mean armed security/

[MeOmYo]

quoting the whole thing may bring context

[TakeAStepBack]

Were these quotes done in a choir like setting, or is this a respresentative for the association making statements?

While not a member of the NRA, but a fan of some of the training courses they offer, etc.... I think those aren't terrible assessmetns at all.

[concert andy]

This exact quotes from a press conference right now. Sorry there is no link yet. The story will be up later.

[concert andy]

I think they are callous comments about a awful situation.

[TakeAStepBack]

SHould they cry and take the blame for the situation? Or offer what they believe to be solutions?

Considering you're talking about a bullet tax to try an dmitigate violent gun crime, I think everyone needs to step off the pile of dead children already. But this is Reactionary USA. So that isnt going to happen.

[concert andy]

Have some couth.

[concert andy]

SHould they cry and take the blame for the situation? Or offer what they believe to be solutions?

Considering you're talking about a bullet tax to try an dmitigate violent gun crime, I think everyone needs to step off the pile of dead children already. But this is Reactionary USA. So that isnt going to happen.

Again, my bullet tax is to help educate gun owners, and help the mentally disturbed.

The other part of this, tracking bullets is to help curb dumb crimes, that end in meaningless death by a gun. Bigger picture.

You should stop worrying about everyones liberty's and start worrying about the 10K people who die of senseless gun violence every year.

And of all groups the NRA should be a little more sensitive.

[TakeAStepBack]

You should stop worrying about everyones liberty's and start worrying about the 10K people who die of senseless gun violence every year.


I'll never advocate the removal of liberties and freedoms in exchange for perceived safety.

[concert andy]

You should stop worrying about everyones liberty's and start worrying about the 10K people who die of senseless gun violence every year.


I'll never advocate the removal of liberties and freedoms in exchange for perceived safety.

Exactly. You are worried about everyone's liberties while there are dead children.

[TakeAStepBack]

Are you really going to soap box from the top of a pile of dead children, meanwhile saying the NRA needs to show more couth?

[Tim the Beek]

You should stop worrying about everyones liberty's and start worrying about the 10K people who die of senseless gun violence every year.

They aren't mutually exclusive.

And when you have a moment, take a look at Pol Pot's Cambodia, Germany in the 30's, The USSR under Lenin, and particularly Stalin, Central America in the 70s and 80s, and Mao's China for a peek at the senseless violence which happenes when liberty is given up, and people have their ability to protect themselves taken away...

[hoagie]

theres nothing to be done. Crazy will happen now and then, and no amount of regulation or taxation or gun control will ever prevent horrifying things from occuring.

[concert andy]

SHould they cry and take the blame for the situation? Or offer what they believe to be solutions?

Considering you're talking about a bullet tax to try an dmitigate violent gun crime, I think everyone needs to step off the pile of dead children already. But this is Reactionary USA. So that isnt going to happen.

Are you really going to soap box from the top of a pile of dead children, meanwhile saying the NRA needs to show more couth?

You got up there, first and called everyone out for stepping over dead children, say this is America and that is how it is, and then say I am getting up on a soap box?

Wow, calling the kettle black, I guess.

[concert andy]

A defiant NRA calls for armed guards in every school

WASHINGTON -- In an angry and defiant news conference, National Rifle Assn. Chief Executive Wayne LaPierre on Friday forcefully rejected calls to clamp down on guns in the wake of the Newtown, Conn., school massacre, arguing instead for a massive deployment of armed guards to every school.

LaPierre pledged that the NRA would spearhead such an endeavor, appointing former Arkansas Rep. Asa Hutchinson to lead an effort to develop a cutting-edge model school security plan and a program to train volunteers who would be dispatched to campuses around the country.

In the meantime, he called on Congress to immediately appropriate funding to pay for police officers in every school "to make sure that blanket safety is in place when our kids return to school in January."

The NRA chief noted that armed security guards are stationed in front of banks, airports, courthouses and sports stadiums, and that Secret Service agents and Capitol police with guns protect the president and members of Congress.

"Yet when it comes to our most beloved, innocent and vulnerable members of the American family, our children, we as a society leave them every day utterly defenseless," he said in a sharply worded speech before a phalanx of news cameras. "And the monsters and the predators of the world know it and exploit it. That must change now."

"The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun," he added, "is a good guy with a gun."

Friday’s news conference, held in the ballroom of a luxury Washington hotel a block from the White House, marked the first extensive comments by the influential pro-gun-rights organization since 20 young children and six adults were gunned down at Sandy Hook Elementary School one week ago.

In the wake of the tragedy, President Obama called for an urgent new focus on preventing gun violence, appointing Vice President Joe Biden to oversee a task force on the topic. Calls have mounted for new laws tightening access to guns, and advocates of such measures have publicly urged the NRA to join them in a dialogue about new restrictions.

But it was clear from the initial moments of the news conference that the NRA’s tone would not be a conciliatory one.

LaPierre cast the issue in terms of security, warning darkly about evil forces who want to inflict harm on the innocent.

"The truth is that our society is populated by an unknown number of genuine monsters, people that are so deranged, so evil, so possessed by voices and driven by demons that no sane person can ever possibly comprehend them," he said. "They walk among us every single day. And does anybody really believe that the next Adam Lanza isn't planning his attack on a school he's already identified at this very moment? How many more copycats are waiting in the wings for their moment of fame from a national media machine that rewards them with wall-to-wall attention and a sense of identity that they crave while provoking others to try to make their mark?”

Two protesters interrupted his address at different times, holding up signs that read "NRA KILLING OUR KIDS" and "NRA HAS BLOOD ON ITS HANDS." Security guards pulled them out of the room as they shouted "Violence begins with the NRA!" and "Ban assault weapons now!"

Both times, LaPierre stood silently until they were gone, then resumed his speech without comment.

The NRA chief repeatedly lambasted the media, saying the implication in the press is that "guns are evil and have no place in society, much less in our schools."

"But since when did the gun automatically become a bad word?" he asked. "A gun in the hands of a Secret Service agent protecting our president isn't a bad word. A gun in the hands of a soldier protecting the United States of America isn't a bad word. And when you hear your glass breaking at 3 a.m. and you call 911, you won't be able to pray hard enough for a gun in the hands of a good guy to get there fast enough to protect you."

"Is it so important to you that you’d rather continue to risk the alternative?" he chastised. "Is the press and the political class here in Washington, D.C., so consumed by fear and hatred of the NRA and American gun owners that you're willing to accept a world where real resistance to evil monsters is a lone, unarmed school principal left to surrender her life -- her life -- to shield those children in her care? No one -- no one -- regardless of personal political prejudice, has the right to impose that sacrifice."

[Depends]

Yeah, every school district in the country is laying off teachers, now we hire armed guards for every school? And the NRA has a nice profitable plan to make it work? Suite work if you can get it.
What about movie theatres, or shopping malls, or sikh temples? Or Army bases?

[concert andy]

Philly is closing 40 schools.

Prolly need them there too.

Wouldn't this be considered entitlement spending too?

[Joker]

For those who'd like to read the actual statement

http://www.scribd.co...chool-Shootings

[Depends]

And lets say the cost of 1 armed guard is about $100k. Although many schools would require more than 1. Plus the cost of training, weapons, ammo.
There are about 100k public primary and secondary schools in the US (http://nces.ed.gov/f...n3#faqFFOption3). Just salary alone would be $10 Billion.

[PeaceFrog]

The only way to stop a bad guy with a gun, is a good guy with a gun.

oh yeah, because bad guys always wear black, and good guys always wear blue... right? It's just that easy.

[concert andy]

For those who'd like to read the actual statement

http://www.scribd.co...chool-Shootings

So was my article just a spin by the drive bys?

[scarfire]

odd to hear the liberty loving NRA demand the federal govt maintain a list of the mentally ill citizens of america..

there's a sense of desperation here as sentiment is turning against them.

[Depends]

prolly should put armed guards on every rural road in America too:

http://www.foxnews.c...vania-shooting/

[PeaceFrog]

who was the good guy, and who was the bad guy here?



BY PHILIP CAULFIELD / NEW YORK DAILY NEWS

FRIDAY, DECEMBER 21, 2012, 11:09 AM

Florida pizza parlor shooters says he was protected by 'Stand Your Ground' law

Michael Jock of St. Petersburg says he felt his life was threatened after he got in a fight at a Little Caesar's with Randall White, who was complaining that his pie was taking too long.

A Florida man says he was protected by the state's controversial "Stand Your Ground" law when he shot another man in a pizza parlor who was complaining that his food was taking too long.

Michael Jock, 52, of St. Petersburg, pumped two shots into Randall White, 49, after the two exchanged words after White complained about his pie.

White told the Tampa Bay Times that counter workers at the Little Caesar's pizza said his thin crust veggie pizza would take 10 minutes.

"Twenty minutes later, I'm like, 'Where's my pizza?'" White said.

When he complained, Jock got in his face and chewed him out, he said.

The two started to scuffle, and Jock pulled a piece, authorities said.

He fired once, hitting White in the gut, cops told the newspaper. White lunged for the weapon and it fired again, hitting him in the same spot.

Both men were arrested. Jock told police he felt his life was in danger when he pulled the gun, the Times reported.

He was arrested and charged with aggravated battery and shooting inside a building.

"We determined it did not reach a level where deadly force was required," St. Pete police spokesman Mike Puetz told the newspaper.

Jock was out on $20,000 bail and has met with a lawyer, the Times said.

White was treated at a local hospital and released. He said Jock was the aggressor and and was quick to go for his gun.

"I got lucky," he told the Times. "To me, that stand your ground rule … people are twisting it. He's twisting it. I walked in to get a pizza and I got shot."

Read more: http://www.nydailyne...9#ixzz2FiEmrftm

[TakeAStepBack]

You got up there, first and called everyone out for stepping over dead children, say this is America and that is how it is, and then say I am getting up on a soap box?

Wow, calling the kettle black, I guess.

I guess you don't understand the difference between commenting on the reactions and actually reacting. Since the minute this happened news pundits, politicians, activists, the public have stepped right in to scapegoat this on firearms. I'm not the one using this tragedy as an agenda platform.

Something along the lines of "here you are defending liberties in the face of dead children."
No, actually I'm defending liberties from those who wish to capitalize on the tragedy by pushing an agenda and using the shooting as the soap box. There is a giant difference.

[Depends]

No, actually I'm defending liberties from those who wish to capitalize on the tragedy by pushing an agenda and using the shooting as the soap box. There is a giant difference.

You sell more umbrellas when it rains. The time to talk about gun control is when gun out of control happens.

[concert andy]

I guess you don't understand the difference between commenting on the reactions and actually reacting. Since the minute this happened news pundits, politicians, activists, the public have stepped right in to scapegoat this on firearms. I'm not the one using this tragedy as an agenda platform.

Something along the lines of "here you are defending liberties in the face of dead children."
No, actually I'm defending liberties from those who wish to capitalize on the tragedy by pushing an agenda and using the shooting as the soap box. There is a giant difference.

I guess. But you are still balls deep in the conversation, so either side you take (Usually the liberty freedom side), you are up on your soap box.

I am discussing and trying to put together a good plan using feed back from others, I am not capitalize on anything.

I point out the hypocrisies that are abound on both sides of this argument.

[TakeAStepBack]

You sell more umbrellas when it rains. The time to talk about gun control is when gun out of control happens.

"Never let a good crisis go to waste."

[concert andy]

"Never let a good crisis go to waste."

Why is not ok to discuss a controversial subject when that controversy just happened?

The subject is fresh and emotional pleas make for a better discussion.

[deadheadskier]

And lets say the cost of 1 armed guard is about $100k. Although many schools would require more than 1. Plus the cost of training, weapons, ammo.
There are about 100k public primary and secondary schools in the US (http://nces.ed.gov/f...n3#faqFFOption3). Just salary alone would be $10 Billion.

Well, the House did just pass a $633B Defense Bill

http://swampland.tim...n-defense-bill/

Why not roll school security into that budget?

[Depends]

"Never let a good crisis go to waste."

why are you bringing up Benghazi?

[TakeAStepBack]

Who brought up Benghazi?

[Depends]

sorry, I misunderstood. A good crisis that got a lot of milage in early november.

[TakeAStepBack]

Why is not ok to discuss a controversial subject when that controversy just happened?

The subject is fresh and emotional pleas make for a better discussion.

Not in my book. Logical pleas make for a better discussion. People that run on emotional highs do not make rational choices.
Such as throwing rights under the proverbial bus for some perceived safety.

[Depends]

or suggesting that we spend $10 Billion on perceived safety?

[concert andy]

Not in my book. Logical pleas make for a better discussion. People that run on emotional highs do not make rational choices.
Such as throwing rights under the proverbial bus for some perceived safety.

Not sure if any of my ideas were irrational, or restrict much if any freedom.

I agree in general, but this is a topic that has boiled under the surface for years. The children were just the straw that broke the camels proverbial back.

LOLibreals have been up in arms about gun control forever, and the NRA dismissed the Loliberals because they could. They never engaged in actual conversation. Now when they do, it is not the time? They admit something needs to be done, and their solution is quite LoLiberal.

Remember Charlton Hesten? From my cold dead hands. That was their argument.

[TakeAStepBack]

sorry, I misunderstood. A good crisis that got a lot of milage in early november.

No, that quote works here too. Or any other crisis/tragedy. it's always the same.

[TakeAStepBack]

Not sure if any of my ideas were irrational, or restrict much if any freedom.

I agree in general, but this is a topic that has boiled under the surface for years. The children were just the straw that broke the camels proverbial back.

LOLibreals have been up in arms about gun control forever, and the NRA dismissed the Loliberals because they could. They never engaged in actual conversation.

Remember Charlton Hesten? From my cold dead hands. That was their argument.

And still, this tragedy isn't about guns. It's about piss poor parenting, a degenerative culture and mental health. Or perhaps how all three intersect.
Until the day a gun walks into a classroom or another victim zone and kills indescriminently, these situations are about people and our culture. Not tools.

[Depends]

A weapon is an equalizer. Until the day a nutjob goes into a sikh temple and bores them to death talking to them, these situations are about the tools also.

[concert andy]

And still, this tragedy isn't about guns. It's about piss poor parenting, a degenerative culture and mental health. Or perhaps how all three intersect.
Until the day a gun walks into a classroom or another victim zone and kills indescriminently, these situations are about people and our culture. Not tools.

What about the Bat man movie?

There was no country wide outrage then, or NRA response. The LoLiberals were angry.

I tried to make this more about gun violence and a solution to that, not what happened in Newtown. Except to use tax money on ammo to help pay for the mental health care (that the NRA seems to be in favor of, without the tax of course).

[TakeAStepBack]

A weapon is an equalizer. Until the day a nutjob goes into a sikh temple and bores them to death talking to them, these situations are about the tools also.

All kinds of things can become weapons. Take one away, and another will appear. It's like playing whack-a-mole.

[concert andy]

All kinds of things can become weapons. Take one away, and another will appear. It's like playing whack-a-mole.

True but a gun is the most powerful with the least amount of effort.

[PeaceFrog]

no, now isn't the time to talk about it. NOW IS TOO LATE. We should have done something a lot sooner!

[TakeAStepBack]

True but a gun is the most powerful with the least amount of effort.

Seems it would have been pretty easy and powerful had this batshit crazy turd run over a bunch of children at a cross walk using a Ford F150 with monster tires on it and a suspension lift. Then Ford would be on TV talking about how responsible they were for this tragedy etc....

[concert andy]

Seems it would have been pretty easy and powerful had this batshit crazy turd run over a bunch of children at a cross walk using a Ford F150 with monster tires on it and a suspension lift. Then Ford would be on TV talking about how responsible they were for this tragedy etc....

Talk about poor a analogy.



Sure someone could, but the kids could jump out of the way. With a gun and a good shot/shooter, you better be Neo or you getting shot.

[TakeAStepBack]

That's right. The shooter is the problem. Not the firearm. That kid was given access to arms and trained to use them. He was mentally ill.
GIANT parenting failure.

Blame the gun.

[PeaceFrog]

how dangerous would that kid be without a gun?

[TakeAStepBack]

That kid is dead, and there is no telling what he may have done a priori without a gun.

[concert andy]

That's right. The shooter is the problem. Not the firearm. That kid was given access to arms and trained to use them. He was mentally ill.
GIANT parenting failure.

Blame the gun.

Yes.

You seem to be a little too focused on this case.

And my solutions tie the gun used in a crime to the gun owner.


To get into this case, the mom may have not realized his mental illness was that bad, because have you ever seen a crime committed by someone with a handicap?

May be she thought this was a way to bring him out of his shell.

You clearly stated that this was a "GIANT parenting failure.". How do you know this? You are connecting dots of a dead woman, who also can not defend herself.

From what I have read about his mom, she tried repeatedly to get him help. And she was worried in recent months that he had withdrawn too much and she could not reach him.

Wow, just wow!

[Depends]

and the mother had a house full of guns, she (the good guy with a gun) was not able to defend herself from the bad guy with a gun.

GIANT theory fail