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Shootings just since Friday Dec 14

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#101 PeaceFrog

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 01:14 AM

(35 minutes ago) 2 Arrested in Robbery Spree, Shooting at Police

#102 PeaceFrog

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 01:17 AM

Tuesday (12/18) Officer-involved shooting reported in east-central Fresno

I guess I'll just have to live my life in between shootings.

#103 TakeAStepBack

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 01:34 AM

Kind of like your outcry over innocent civilians in drone strikes?

#104 PeaceFrog

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 01:43 AM

I never knew anyone killed by a drone.

#105 PeaceFrog

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 01:46 AM

Tuesday (12/18) Atlantic City Cops Shoot, Kill Armed Man

#106 TakeAStepBack

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 01:59 AM

I never knew anyone killed by a drone.


Oh, ok.

#107 TakeAStepBack

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 02:02 AM

You knew that Atlanta cop and the armed man?

#108 PeaceFrog

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 02:05 AM

I've personally known several people who were shot, so I'm a little more sensitive to the issue.

Did you personally know several people who have been killed by drones?

#109 TakeAStepBack

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 02:23 AM

what does that have to do with the Atlanta cop and armed man?

#110 PeaceFrog

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 02:33 AM

what does that have to do with you being afraid of unmanned drones foiling your little plot to overthrow the government?

I'm not paying attention to you any more. You're full of non-sense, and it's obvious.

#111 TakeAStepBack

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 02:50 AM

Wait...what?

#112 PeaceFrog

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 12:09 PM

(11pm last night) Off-duty officer involved in shooting outside concert venue

ATLANTA — Atlanta police are investigating after an off-duty officer fired shots outside a midtown concert venue.

Police said an event at Center Stage on West Peachtree Street had just ended around 11 p.m. when the officer, who was working the event, saw someone firing gunshots toward a group of people. Police said the officer confronted the gunman and fired several shots, but they were able to get into a car and flee.

Shortly after the exchange, a man went to Grady with a gunshot wound to his leg, which he said occurred as he was leaving Center Stage, police said. It is not clear who shot him.

Police are looking into whether an altercation between two groups inside the venue could be connected.

The officer has been placed on routine administrative leave.

#113 PeaceFrog

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 12:13 PM

(7:34 pm last night) Man Shot in Huntington Station

A man was shot in the chest Tuesday night on Railroad Street in Huntington Station.

Suffolk County police said they received a call at at 7:34 p.m. about a shooting. They said a 27-year-old man was shot in the chest and leg in front of 27 Railroad St.

He was taken to Huntington Hospital where he was listed in critical but stable (non-life-threatening) condition, police said.

The street was blocked off between Lowndes Avenue and Mckay Road during the police investigation.

No further details were immediately available.

#114 TakeAStepBack

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 12:21 PM

You sure do know a lot of people.

#115 Joker

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 12:46 PM

Posted Image

#116 PeaceFrog

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 12:51 PM

"We certainly need an assault weapons ban, but we need more than that. There are some 260 people every day who are injured or killed by gun violence, so it's very important that we ban assault weapons, for starters, but there are other steps that need to be taken quickly. Local communities need to be able to regulate guns, as needed, to deal with their violence. So, we need to keep guns out of the hands of criminals. We need background checks, so that the mentally ill are not possessing and using guns. And we need to end the gun show loopholes, as well, because there's far too much violence from guns, which is not needed." - Jill Stein

Source: Democracy Now! Expanded Second Obama-Romney 2012 debate , Oct 16, 2012

#117 PeaceFrog

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 01:24 PM

(10:15 pm last night) Tyler man dead after two drive away from shooting in northwest Dallas

#118 PeaceFrog

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 01:36 PM

(10 pm last night) 1 person suffers gunshot wound after Chevron gas station shooting

#119 PeaceFrog

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 01:42 PM

(3:42 am) Two Dead in St. Petersburg Motel Shooting

#120 TakeAStepBack

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 01:46 PM

Guns sure are shooting a lot of people.

#121 PeaceFrog

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 01:48 PM

Tuesday (12/18) Police search for suspect after fatal Albany shooting


ALBANY – "I heard pop pop pop pop and I immediately thought it was gun shots."

An Albany mother didn't want her identity revealed, but was more than willing to make known her fears, after gunshots rang out in broad daylight in her neighborhood.

She said her first thought was her daughter at school just a few blocks away.

"With what happened Friday with Newtown it really touched home and my first reaction was, the school," she said.

The Philip Schuyler Achievement Academy went into lock out for about a half an hour, as Albany Police searched for clues in the 11am shooting Tuesday near 55 Ontario Street.

Police said after being wounded, 23-year-old Iquan Carter ran into a backyard and collapsed. He was pronounced dead at Albany Medical Center.

Coming just four days after the Newtown Connecticut shooting rampage that left 20 children dead at an elementary school, another parent said she worries about her kindergardener and fifth grader here.

"After the shooting a few days ago it's horrible I mean there's got to be another answer to the problem. Guns is not the answer," said the woman who gave her name as Michele.

Albany Schools spokesman Ron Lesko said the Newtown massacre has officials reviewing security plans, and staying on the alert.

"That event, that horrible event has made us focus again on the plans that we have to keep our children and our staff members safe," he said.

The Albany shooting put parents on edge, making one mother willing to put herself in danger moments after shots were fired.

"My husband said no, wait. Then we heard sirens I said no my daughter's right there I flew out the house came up to the corner," she said.

#122 PeaceFrog

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 02:08 PM

Tuesday (12/18) 16-year-old girls among four wounded in city shootings Tuesday afternoon

Two teen aged girls were among four people shot in a pair of attacks Tuesday afternoon and evening on the South Side, police said.

The two girls, 16, were taken to John H. Stroger Jr. Hospital of Cook County - one with a gunshot wound to the buttocks and the other with a wound to the arm.

They were shot in the 2300 block of South Leavitt Street about 4:30 p.m., police said. Police believe someone opened fire from inside a passing vehicle.

Two men were wounded later in the Beverly View neighborhood about 10:45 p.m., police said.

The two, 18 and 26, were shot in their legs in the 2300 block of West 81st Street.

Police set out at least nine evidence markers, usually placed next to shell casings, spanning an area from a front yard out to the opposite side of 81st Street. One of the markers sat on top of a car.

Traffic at the T-intersection was blocked in all directions. The streets are lined with single-family brick homes.

Both were taken to Advocate Christ Medical Center in Oak Lawn, Chicago Police News Affairs Officer Amina Greer said.

Area Central detectives are investigating both shootings and police do not have anyone in custody.

#123 hoagie

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 02:20 PM

"damn this movie is so good, im bout to bust a cap up in this mithafuckah"



#124 PeaceFrog

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 02:20 PM

Monday (12/17) Man killed, girl hurt in West Side shooting


By Adam Sege
Tribune reporter
9:02 a.m. CST, December 18, 2012

A 38-year-old man was killed and a 17-year-old girl injured in a shooting Monday night in the West Side's South Austin neighborhood, police said.

About 10:35 p.m. in the 5800 block of West Superior Street, two males approached a silver 2000 Ford Taurus that the man and the girl were sitting in, Chicago Police Department News Affairs Officer Amina Greer said.

One of the males opened fire, with bullets striking the man near the armpit and grazing the girl in the buttocks. The 38-year-old man was behind the wheel of the Taurus, according to News Affairs Officer John Mirabelli, and he tried driving away after he was shot, but crashed.

Both victims were taken to West Suburban Medical Center, where the man was pronounced dead at 11 p.m., according to the Cook County medical examiner's office.

The medical examiner's office identified him as Sherman Horton, of the 5900 block of West Superior Street.

The girl was listed in good condition.

At the scene of the shooting, passing cars slowed as drivers and occupants peered past yellow crime scene tape.

Near the middle of the block, detectives searched for evidence near a dark-colored SUV protruding onto the grass between the sidewalk and the street. The passenger's side door of a nearby silver sedan remained ajar.

No one is in custody and a motive was not available, Mirabelli said.

In other shootings Monday:
  • A teenage boy was shot and wounded about 1:55 p.m. in the 7300 block of South Sangamon Street, said News Affairs Officer Veejay Zala. The boy, 17, was shot in the right calf.
  • In the 2000 block of West 68th Street, a 26-year-old man was shot in the back at 4:51 p.m., Zala said. Zala had no information about what happened in either of the shootings or where either victim was taken for treatment.


#125 syd_25

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 04:02 PM

So if this country is so violent and other countries firearm policies are more to your liking, why stay?

#126 hoagie

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 04:12 PM

Cmon syd, what kind of arguement is that? If you dobt like it, leave?

Why cant one try to change what they feel is wrong?

#127 TakeAStepBack

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 04:22 PM

I get that don't like it leave shit all the time. Sucks when it's in reverse. Go ahead, change a law. The last gun ban did nothing. Absolutely nothing. Well, except made manufacturers find creative ways to skirt the ban. It would be one thing if we didn't already know these types of bans don't work, but we already know they do nothing. So it's insanity. Try the same thing again, expect different result.

Ah, ok....

#128 syd_25

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 04:25 PM

Not an argument. Just a question. PF has mentioned others countries policies and the "benefit" of them. So that's where my question comes from.

BTW - Not trying to start crap, maybe just a conversation.

#129 deadheadskier

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 04:43 PM

I get that don't like it leave shit all the time. Sucks when it's in reverse. Go ahead, change a law. The last gun ban did nothing. Absolutely nothing. Well, except made manufacturers find creative ways to skirt the ban. It would be one thing if we didn't already know these types of bans don't work, but we already know they do nothing. So it's insanity. Try the same thing again, expect different result.

Ah, ok....



no, insanity would be doing nothing, when we know there's a problem. I typically don't agree with Peacefrog; especially his inane methods of trying to discuss complex issues, but our gun problem is worth some dialogue.

We're in the top 12 in the world in gun murder rates and share some fine company at the top. In fact, most of the nations above us get their guns from us, so we probably contribute at least a little bit to their problems.

http://en.wikipedia....ated_death_rate

Take a look at the top of the list, then take a look at the bottom of the list. Can you find a few nations of 20M+ people near the bottom of the list with more relaxed gun laws than we have, yet a lesser homicide rate? Sure you can. But, there are literally dozens and dozens of countries with far stricter gun laws that have a fraction of the murder rate that we do.

So, I'm not buying the solution to our gun problem is more guns. Statistics from a worldwide sample size of 7B+ people don't come even remotely close to backing up such claims.

Australia is actually a pretty good case study on the matter. They changed their laws following a 35 person mass murder in the 90s and their gun homicide rate dropped 59% with no corresponding increase in homicide from other means.

#130 Spidergawd

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 04:44 PM

BTW - Not trying to start crap, maybe just a conversation.


You must be new to the P&R forum. Welcome!

:funny1:

#131 syd_25

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 04:47 PM

I wonder is there is a statistic available for how many gun related deaths compared to have many guns are owned instead of just how many per overall population.

#132 syd_25

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 04:47 PM

You must be new to the P&R forum. Welcome!

:funny1:


LOL
Not new.... just hopeful.

#133 TakeAStepBack

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 05:35 PM

http://www.google.co...qG8L6P9rOItfmGw

IV. Conclusion

It does not appear that the Australian experience with gun buybacks is fully replicable in the United

States. Levitt provides three reasons why gun buybacks in the United States have apparently been

ineffective: (a) the buybacks are relatively small in scale (B) guns are surrendered voluntarily, and so are

not like the ones used in crime; and © replacement guns are easy to obtain.

These factors did not apply to the Australian buyback, which was large, compulsory, and the guns on this island nation

could not easily be replaced. For example, compared to the buyback of 650,000 firearms, annual

imports after the law averaged only 30,000 per year, with many of these bought by law enforcement

agencies.

4

For Australia, a difficulty with determining the effect of the law was that gun deaths were falling in the

early 1990s. No study has explained why gun deaths were falling, or why they might be expected to

continue to fall. Yet most studies generally assumed that they would have continued to drop without

the NFA. Many studies still found strong evidence for a beneficial effect of the law.

From the perspective of 1996, it would have been difficult to imagine more compelling future

evidence of a beneficial effect of the law. Whether or not one wants to attribute the effects as being

due to the law, everyone should be pleased with what happened in Australia after the NFA—the

elimination of firearm massacres (at least up to the present) and an immediate, and continuing,

reduction in firearm suicide and firearm homicide.



OK, already decreasing numbers of gun related homicides and suicides continued to decrease following the massive gun grab of 1996 in Australia.
What about home invasions, robberies, etc?

http://www.dailytele...f-1226311651859

Home invasions the new 'fad'
  • March 27, 2012 6:00PM
HOME invasions have swept Sydney with crooks "storming " into houses in the latest crime fad to hit our streets.
From Point Piper to Penrith the victims range from millionaires to housing commission tenants.
Since the beginning of the year there have been at least 24 "home invasions" made public, many of them violent.

Sydney Institute of Criminology lecturer Garner Clancy said they may just be a "fad' crime.
He said it was hard to gauge how serious the problem is has been no research or figures about home invasions.....

..Both police and the bureau of crime statistics say there is no "home invasion" category and are classed as robberies from residential dwellings. Figures show burglaries and robberies from homes are dropping. ??????


http://www.ssaa.org....the-impact.html
Conflicting information. Sourced Aussie BoS.

http://www.slate.com..._provide_a.html

On April 28, 1996, a gunman opened fire on tourists in a seaside resort in Port Arthur, Tasmania. By the time he was finished, he had killed 35 people and wounded 23 more. It was the worst mass murder in Australia’s history.

Twelve days later, Australia’s government did something remarkable. Led by newly elected conservative Prime Minister John Howard, it announced a bipartisan deal with state and local governments to enact sweeping gun-control measures. A decade and a half hence, the results of these policy changes are clear: They worked really, really well.

At the heart of the push was a massive buyback of more than 600,000 semi-automatic shotguns and rifles, or about one-fifth of all firearms in circulation in Australia. The country’s new gun laws prohibited private sales, required that all weapons be individually registered to their owners, and required that gun buyers present a “genuine reason” for needing each weapon at the time of the purchase. (Self-defense did not count.) In the wake of the tragedy, polls showed public support for these measures at upwards of 90 percent.

What happened next has been the subject of several academic studies. Violent crime and gun-related deaths did not come to an end in Australia, of course. But as the Washington Post’s Wonkblog pointed out in August, homicides by firearm plunged 59 percent between 1995 and 2006, with no corresponding increase in non-firearm-related homicides. The drop in suicides by gun was even steeper: 65 percent. Studies found a close correlation between the sharp declines and the gun buybacks. Robberies involving a firearm also dropped significantly. Meanwhile, home invasions did not increase, contrary to fears that firearm ownership is needed to deter such crimes. But here’s the most stunning statistic. In the decade before the Port Arthur massacre, there had been 11 mass shootings in the country. There hasn’t been a single one in Australia since.

http://www.niemanwat...w&askthisid=491

How extensive is gun ownership in Australia compared to the United States?

According to the Australian Institute of Criminology (AIC) about 10 percent of Australian households, most of them in rural areas, have at least one gun, reflecting a decline from about 20 percent in 1989. Currently about 5.2 percent of Australian adults (765,000 people) own and use firearms for hunting, controlling feral animals, target shooting and collecting, according to the Sporting Shooters Association of Australia. Australia, with a population of 22 million, has a total of 2.5 million registered firearms, the AIC said. While it is difficult to estimate the number of illegal guns, a study by Sydney University’s School of Public Health estimated there are about 20,000 illegal handguns in Australia.

In contrast, surveys in the United States last year showed that an estimated 40-45 percent of households had guns and 30-34 percent of American adults own at least one gun. A Gallup organization poll found that two-thirds of the gun owners cited self-defense as a reason for owning a firearm, although hunting and target shooting were also cited by many. The worldwide Small Arms Survey of the Geneva-based Graduate Institute of International and Development Studies estimated there are between 238 million and 276 million privately-owned firearms in the U.S., which has an estimated population of 310 million. The survey reported that about 4.5 million of the 8 million new guns manufactured worldwide each year are purchased in the United States.

Q. How successful have Australia’s efforts to reduce the number of illegal firearms by buyback and amnesty programs been?

It depends upon whose interpretation of the statistics you believe. The 1996 compulsory and compensated buyback program netted about 700,000 firearms at an estimated cost of nearly $500 million. In 2003 the government, at a cost of $69 million, collected 50,000 handguns declared illegal under new gun control criteria, most of them with barrel sizes larger than 9 mm. But even gun control advocates criticized that program as pointless because most of the confiscated guns were legally replaced with target pistols that met the new specifications.

Q. What are the historical and cultural differences between Australia and the United States that shape their sharply contrasting viewpoints on gun control?

In some ways the two countries are strikingly similar. Both are former British colonies whose early settlers pushed their frontiers westward across huge land masses, subduing hostile natives. Both countries’ pioneers had to rely on guns to survive in inhospitable territories, the Australians in the Outback and the Americans in the Wild West. Australians and Americans, particularly in rural areas, still share a strong ethos of self-reliance and rugged individualism and are wary of intrusion by their central governments.

On the other hand, there are striking differences. Although the two countries are similarly sized in land mass, Australia’s population of 22 million is a fraction of the U.S. population (2011 estimate: 310 million), making it, in theory, more manageable. Nearly three-quarters of Australians live in about a dozen large and medium-sized cities, mostly in the Pacific and Indian Ocean coastal regions. They tend to be comfortable with active federal government intervention rather than strong state sovereignty. Australia’s six states and two territories do not even levy income taxes, but instead the central government doles out the revenues it collects to the states for schools, hospitals, social welfare and other services, and plays an increasingly active role in managing those programs.

#134 TakeAStepBack

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 05:39 PM

In conclusion to the Australian comparison. Apples and oranges. Completely. There 22 million head count to our ~312 million count. There is also what appears to be a deliberate "yay" cry coming form the Aussie central government on their efforts. While the public has another mood entirely. While conflicitng information points to two totally separate conclusions.

#135 MeOmYo

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 05:43 PM

Business : A Rather Boring Article About Print Colours

by Amanda VlahakisPosted Image on 7-Nov-07 1:36pm
Likes (0)
Posted Image Posted Image Posted Image Posted Image Message
I warn you, this is long winded and quite boring reading - only read this if you need to learn about print colours for your business stationery and marketing materials;

How to choose them to get the best and most predicable result at a price that suits your budget.


Pantone or CMYK Printing

The subject of print colours, for most non designers, is a tad cloaked in mystery. At least they begin to conclude that it is when I start explaining that the colours you see on your pc screen are not the same as print colours.

The web colour spectrum is RGB and print colours are typically CMYK and Pantone. Are you with me still?

I've tried quite hard to bring clarity to this for the benefit of my clients at www.trulyace.com/technicalinformation.html. I feel it's my duty to educate clients on printing processes, where some other designers disagree and say clients shouldn't have to think about things like this.

It's my opinion that the client is the decision maker (or should be) and how can they make good decisions for their brand if they aren't sufficiently informed to do so.

Marketing materials have a huge impact on the success of a business and I want to ensure there are no shocks when customers receive their printed items from our recommended printing company or any other printing company they may use for that matter.

Below is an extract from our technical page explaining the difference between CMYK and Pantone colours for printing purposes:

CMYK Colour Printing
(Also called 'process colours' - and used with digital printing)
Colour is produced on your choice of printed material (paper, vinyl, cardboard, fabric and so on……..) by mixing four separate ink colours:

Cyan, Magenta, Yellow, and Black (CMYK).

Using this method can mean that when printing many copies of the same artwork, as is common with business cards and other forms of stationary, some areas of colour may not appear completely consistent, consistency is affected by ink density, temperature, paper quality, and when using CMYK the colour can differ between printing companies. Generally though in my experience the differences are very small.

If it's a cmyk colour print you have commissioned with your printing firm (very popular now as this is the method digital printing uses, and digital printing is very competitively priced and allows short runs) you can view the colours in a PDF document of your final print layout design (the design that we provide you with)- you must print the design out in 'best' quality from your office printing machine to view the colours.

If you do this you will find that the print run should be pretty close to these as your office printer will print out using the CMYK printing method……however we can't guarantee they will be exactly the same as paper type and the laminating process (commonly used with business cards) or gloss paper can change the shade slightly on printed colours, as well as the heat at the time of print and so on.

Pantone Colour Printing
(Also described as 'spot colour printing')
If you wish to ensure that your logo design or graphic design colour will print exactly the same on every single printed copy you can specify what is called a 'spot colour', they are also guaranteed to look the same no matter which firm prints them.

There are a few spot colour systems available, but the industry standard is the Pantone Matching System, each Pantone colour has a code - for example PANTONE DS 221 - 8U is a pale blue colour; colours can be selected from swatch books that display these colours and list the codes for each one (remember that when looking at a pantone colour on a computer monitor it can look different from when printed and different depending on which monitor you are looking at, and only by viewing a 'swatch book' can you see the actual colour as it will print).

Another factor to bear in mind is that ink will look different if it's printed on a matte paper as opposed to glossy paper - but often printers will have a 'glossy swatch book' and a 'matte swatch book' showing your chosen pantone colour on each type of paper, some printers will have further swatches available such as your colour in 'metallic'.

You cannot view Pantone colours by printing a design file from your own office printer as an office printer only prints in cmyk - therefore if you wanted Pantone printing the only way to select the colours is to go into a printing shop and look at their Pantone colour books. Obviously if you don't use a printer in your locality (selecting remote online printing firms is very popular) you can't look at a colour chart and select your colours from this.

So Which Is Best?

PANTONE PROs
- Specific colours which are consistent no matter who prints them.
- Vibrancy of colour that you can't get with CMYK.

PANTONE CONs
- Will need to select a local printing firm so that you can view their swatch books in the flesh; ie lower cost online print providers in other areas of the country will be closed to you because if you can't choose the Pantone shade in the flesh with them, you cannot select Pantone colours because you can't choose them via your pc screen.
- You will not be able to have a low cost short run digital printing service; meaning you will have to have larger printing runs that you may actually want or need if you are small business.
- Offline printing companies can often be more expensive for the same job because obviously they are factoring in the cost of your 'face to face' consultation and looking at swatch books with them.

CMYK PROs
- Low cost printing in multiple (limitless) colours because you can opt for digital printing.
- To be able to order this online with a low cost digital print provider, these tend of offer lower cost printing services and of course digital printing allows short runs for small orders.

CMYK CONs
- Lack of colour vibrancy … some colours can be a tad dull compared to what Pantone can offer.
- Cannot guarantee exact consistency of colours.

Hopefully this will help you make a decision about your printing!

#136 deadheadskier

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 05:47 PM

Care to explain the overwhelming statistics suggesting worldwide that tougher gun laws = fewer gun homicides. The statistics are right there for you.

Clearly we have an issue with guns getting in the hands of people who shouldn't have them. Yet, the pro gun people say, let's just arm more people.

#137 TakeAStepBack

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 05:52 PM

Those statistics do not take into account population size and a handful of other needed information,. The top of the list is El Salvador, with a population in 2011 of 6,227,491.

And they still had a much, much higher homicide rate than we do. With not even 1/5 of the land mass. It's not going to make for good comparisons here.

#138 TakeAStepBack

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 05:54 PM

I'll pull some more research on world figures later and see if we can't make some correlations. That wiki article has them listed by year too. And the years vary. It's a horrible way to form comparisons.

#139 deadheadskier

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 06:11 PM

er, so basically, I'll get back to you with whatever I can find for a statistic that supports my argument that the solution to our gun problem is more guns because I really am unwilling to engage in dialogue that proposes tougher regulations.

#140 TakeAStepBack

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 06:17 PM

Care to explain the overwhelming statistics suggesting worldwide that tougher gun laws = fewer gun homicides. The statistics are right there for you.

Clearly we have an issue with guns getting in the hands of people who shouldn't have them. Yet, the pro gun people say, let's just arm more people.


Well the overwhelming statistical data does not support that conclusion.

What we have in this country are societal problems. Otherwise, we'd be at thE top of the list considering we buy, as americans, more than half of all firearms pruchased in the world (or at least in 2011).
Switzerland has more guns per home, yet has significantly less gun related crime. There is absolutely no clear correlation between strict gun laws and gun related deaths/homicides.

#141 TakeAStepBack

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 06:19 PM

er, so basically, I'll get back to you with whatever I can find for a statistic that supports my argument that the solution to our gun problem is more guns because I really am unwilling to engage in dialogue that proposes tougher regulations.


Yeah, sure. If that's the way you want to see it, then Im not going to bother entertaining a conversation on it. Believe whatever you want. Push for more regs. Have fun.

#142 deadheadskier

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 06:25 PM

You'll get no argument from me that there is a societal problem. I still don't think that fact should put tougher gun regulations off the table.

#143 Spidergawd

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 07:10 PM

Please stop using Switzerland as an example, because it's Fox-esque propaganda. (Swiss dual citizen here, with a Swiss father.)

There is compulsory military service in Switzerland. Used to be that the issued weapons were kept at home, but many Cantons now require they be kept at a depot and "checked out" when required. The rest of their gun regs are quite strict, requiring providing a reason why one is needed/desired among other things. Ammo is also VERY difficult for civilians to obtain. The army no longer allows ammo to be held at the home (when the soldier does keep his weapon there), except in cases of need, such as fast-reaction forces and so forth. Shooting sport clubs sell ammo cheaply, but it's not allowed to leave the club. Use it there, or leave it behind.

To purchase a weapon, you must have a Waffenerwerbsschein (weapons permit). Private sales are allowed, but the seller is responsible for verifying the buyer has none of the disqualifying attributes (criminal record, mental health issues, etc - done by a criminal records check), has valid ID, and the sale must be recorded in a written contract, so its trackable.

Israel also has surprisingly restrictive regulations.

http://www.washingto...toting-utopias/

#144 TakeAStepBack

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 07:24 PM

Shouldn't they be lower on the list of gun related deaths then? Sounds pretty strict. They have a higher gun related death toll than we do (using the wiki chart).
Is this a clear indicator that stricter laws mean less fatal gun shootings?

#145 TakeAStepBack

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 07:31 PM

Same with Mexico. They too have some strict rules regarding ownership. They have half as many citizens in the population and more than twice as many gun related deaths (according to the wiki chart). I'm not seeing the overwhelming statistics suggesting worldwide that tougher gun laws = fewer gun homicides. It seems to be fleeting.

#146 deadheadskier

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 07:47 PM

really strange. When I posted the link to that list, US was ranked 12th, just behind South Africa with rate of 9. Now it is showing a ranking of 23rd at 3.03.

wiki'd

This study doesn't show a single state with a rate of 3. Most are over 10.

http://www.stateheal...p?ind=113&cat=2

#147 TakeAStepBack

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 07:52 PM

so basically, you go with whatever you can find for a statistic that supports your argument that the solution is tougher regulation.

#148 deadheadskier

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 07:56 PM

I learn from the best! :peace:

#149 Tim the Beek

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 08:08 PM

From an article on Huffington Post about the " Gun Violence Task Force" the President announced today.

Obama also tasked the Biden-led team with considering ways to improve mental health resources and address ways to create a culture that doesn't promote violence.


TtB has to give him a little credit for this. Whether he means it or not remains to be seen, but I gotta acknowledge that he's at least talking about root causes and not just tools...

#150 TakeAStepBack

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 08:08 PM

That's why you don't use wiki for these types of discussions. As I tried to point out about being a little more researched before you told me i was pushing agenda. And another reason why these discussions have jumped the fucking shark. Nobody knows WTF is going on. Just think and do whatever. i'm sure it will be just fine.