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Shootings just since Friday Dec 14

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#51 TakeAStepBack

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 03:31 PM

My view is not to infringe on the constitutional rights of others. It's not my place, nor your to decide which firearms are "needed" and which ones are not.

Sprinkler systems aren't "needed" until a fire occurs. That doesn't make them any less desirable.

#52 hoagie

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 03:33 PM

All fine and good. That's your perogative. Should everyone else live by your view on it?


Yes, everyone SHOULD live a non-violent life, and should do NO violence to anyone, including if someone does violence to you.

But we arent in a perfect world...I understand that some people will not agree with this admittedly idealistic life-view. I dont feel the need to change just because some people havent figured this out yet.

#53 wonka

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 03:33 PM

My view is not to infringe on the constitutional rights of others. It's not my place, nor your to decide which firearms are "needed" and which ones are not.

Sprinkler systems aren't "needed" until a fire occurs. That doesn't make them any less desirable.


not a good comparison. sprinkler systems are not designed to kill
Anthrax is designed to kill and society is able to get by just fine without folks having access

#54 hoagie

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 03:33 PM

Revenge and/or a "kill them first" mentality perpetuates the problem. I dont know what else to say here.

#55 TakeAStepBack

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 03:36 PM

Hoagie, you're being idealist in this. If someone is going to violate you, you have the choice to be violated. That's your choice. Make sure if this ever happens, everyone else around may know to just let it happen. And defense is certainly not the problem.

#56 TakeAStepBack

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 03:39 PM

not a good comparison. sprinkler systems are not designed to kill


And yet, it's still nobody elses business what someone chooses to use for home defense, or business defense, etc... we have inherent inalienable rights. One of which is the right to keep and bear arms. That isn't a demand, you can choose not to want/own one. Your call.

#57 hoagie

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 03:39 PM

Hoagie, you're being idealist in this. If someone is going to violate you, you have the choice to be violated.


Dont get it confused there, buddy. The violater has the choice to NOT cause harm to another. They choose to violate someone. They victim is a victim. Whether they can defend themselves or not is situational, and not a matter of "choice" in the same way as the first instance. Defending ones self in this case, is a reaction, not always a sound choice.

#58 hoagie

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 03:39 PM

Look, you want to have the capacity to instantly kill another, I got it. Lots of mpeople agree with you. THIS IN AND OF ITSELF IS THE PROBLEM.

#59 TakeAStepBack

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 03:43 PM

If you say so, Hoagie. That's a mighty fine opinion.

#60 hoagie

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 03:45 PM

Thank you.

#61 hoagie

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 03:47 PM

As long as people have enough fear in them to want to be able to kill a "potential" violator instantly, the problem will continue.

#62 TakeAStepBack

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 03:48 PM

So we've got Hoag cowering in the corner, telling everyone to leave the situation alone. Violence begets violence. We've got that part covered. :lol:

#63 wonka

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 03:48 PM

And yet, it's still nobody elses business what someone chooses to use for home defense, or business defense, etc... we have inherent inalienable rights. One of which is the right to keep and bear arms. That isn't a demand, you can choose not to want/own one. Your call.


I've never said no guns.
It is more a matter of what type of guns should be in the hands of that wacky neighbor next door. As soon as that nut case comes out from 'defending his house' and moves into a public movie theater and/or schools, it certainly DOES become my business

#64 hoagie

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 03:49 PM

Bunch of afraid people...scared of the boogie man, wanting to own guns.

Why arent non-lethal weapons good enough?

#65 TakeAStepBack

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 04:10 PM

Bring a tazer to a gun fight and find out.

#66 TakeAStepBack

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 04:12 PM

I've never said no guns.
It is more a matter of what type of guns should be in the hands of that wacky neighbor next door. As soon as that nut case comes out from 'defending his house' and moves into a public movie theater and/or schools, it certainly DOES become my business


So you're OK with certain guns being brought into public places by said whacky neighbor?

#67 hoagie

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 04:16 PM

Bring a tazer to a gun fight and find out.


This isnt the OK Corral, I thought we were supposing someone was burguling your house, and you are defending youself. Shoot first taze them with no fear you will be killing them. Its the same as if u had a gun... You have to shoot first and hit them first. With a gun, they are injured and/or killed, or you miss and they shoot you. With a tazer, they are injured/unconscious, or you miss and they shoot you.

#68 TakeAStepBack

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 04:21 PM

OK, go with that then. Get a tazer. My constitutional inalienable right allows me to own/bear firearms. See, we can agree to leave each others opinion and option intact.

#69 wonka

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 04:28 PM

So you're OK with certain guns being brought into public places by said whacky neighbor?


I'd much rather have a wacko with a small caliber gun that requires manual reloading than a wacko with a high caliber semi automatic one.

#70 Joker

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 04:39 PM

I'd much rather have a wacko with a small caliber gun that requires manual reloading than a wacko with a high caliber semi automatic one.

True, but I'd rather have more firepower to be better able to defend myself from said wacko.

#71 TakeAStepBack

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 04:45 PM

OK, go with that then. Get a tazer. My constitutional inalienable right allows me to own/bear firearms. See, we can agree to leave each others opinion and option intact.


Oh, woops. You're in NJ, right Hoag? You can't have a stun gun/taser. They are prohibited.

#72 wonka

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 04:46 PM

True, but I'd rather have more firepower to be better able to defend myself from said wacko.


Therein lies a catch, cause wacko can buy the same higher firepower gun you can.

#73 TakeAStepBack

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 04:47 PM

I'd much rather have a wacko with a small caliber gun that requires manual reloading than a wacko with a high caliber semi automatic one.


Me too. I'd rather not have a whacko going into public to shoot at people at all. If said whacko does go ahead and break the law, I'd rather have armed law abiding citizens around to quickly defuse the situation as opposed to cowering in a corner waiting for the police to arrive. Even a small caliber handgun with manual reload can kill a lot of poeople in a victim zone.

That small caliber handgun also quickly became an assault weapon.

#74 wonka

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 04:54 PM

Me too. I'd rather not have a whacko going into public to shoot at people at all. If said whacko does go ahead and break the law, I'd rather have armed law abiding citizens around to quickly defuse the situation as opposed to cowering in a corner waiting for the police to arrive. Even a small caliber handgun with manual reload can kill a lot of poeople in a victim zone.

That small caliber handgun also quickly became an assault weapon.


41 shots - http://www.springste...mericanskin.php
This was with trained police. Imagine if/when instead of the police, armed citizens are the ones turning and opening fire :eek:

#75 TakeAStepBack

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 05:02 PM

I fail to comprehend a point with that incident or song. Those were police officeers in plain clothes. They hit 19 of 41 shots fired. They sound like amatuer ding dongs. They committed a crime. They got off likely for being cops, as cops often do.

What's the point here again?

#76 Joker

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 05:24 PM

Therein lies a catch, cause wacko can buy the same higher firepower gun you can.

Exactly. I feel the focus should be on dealing with the wacko not on what he can use to commit his crimes. He'll always be able to find something to use as a weapon so I don't see how restricting what others can use to defend themselves is going to do anything but make it easier for the wacko to commit his crimes.

Personally I don't like guns (never cared for them even when I was required to have one) but I believe we should all have the right to own them.

#77 wonka

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 05:28 PM

I fail to comprehend a point with that incident or song. Those were police officeers in plain clothes. They hit 19 of 41 shots fired. They sound like amatuer ding dongs. They committed a crime. They got off likely for being cops, as cops often do.

What's the point here again?


when a mob is armed, way too many shots will be fired and innocent people will be killed.
I don't really want folks on the street/road to have a gun and become instant crime fighters, especially if the majority of people have guns (which seems to be a running pro-gun theme, that if we all had guns crimes like this would not happen).

#78 hoagie

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 05:32 PM

Meanwhile, Walmart has pulled the Bushmaster off its product line today.

#79 TakeAStepBack

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 05:33 PM

when a mob is armed, way too many shots will be fired and innocent people will be killed.
I don't really want folks on the street/road to have a gun and become instant crime fighters, especially if the majority of people have guns (which seems to be a running pro-gun theme, that if we all had guns crimes like this would not happen).


I haven't heard the argument that if more people were armed there would be no outbursts or "crimes like this" (presumably referring to the school shooting). But I do believe, with the numbers on my side, that not knowing how many or who is carrying protection is a good deterrent to these violent and crazy outbursts.

So the kid picked a victim zone? And the one before this one also picked a victim zone? It must be coincidence.

#80 JBetty

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 05:42 PM

What is a "victim zone"?

#81 deadheadskier

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 05:44 PM

What is a "victim zone"?


a place where it's known that there won't be any other guns there to stop the wacko.

#82 JBetty

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 06:03 PM

a place where it's known that there won't be any other guns there to stop the wacko.



Weird. Sure is a strange country we live in.

#83 beerzrkr

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 06:06 PM

Know how many children died in school fires over the last 50 years? 0

Did our prevention solely rely on a man with a shiny red hat, badge and uniform to patrol the schools with no fire extinguishers allowed in the building? Why no, that would be silly.

#84 TakeAStepBack

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 06:08 PM

Know how many children died in school fires over the last 50 years? 0

Did our prevention solely rely on a man with a shiny red hat, badge and uniform to patrol the schools with no fire extinguishers allowed in the building? Why no, that would be silly.


If you make a law, the criminals will follow it. :jimy:

#85 PeaceFrog

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 06:19 PM

Monday (12/17) Family mourns son's death after double-shooting in Pike Co.

#86 TakeAStepBack

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 06:21 PM

You could really fill a thread if you chose vehicular related homicides. :jimy:

#87 PeaceFrog

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 06:22 PM

Saturday (12/15) Key witness in Baltimore shooting case killed after club argument

#88 PeaceFrog

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 06:25 PM

Tuesday (12/18) 4 dead in Longmont: Aunt says 2 women killed were her nieces

#89 PeaceFrog

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 06:29 PM

You could really fill a thread if you chose vehicular related homicides. :jimy:


so start your own thread

#90 PeaceFrog

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 06:44 PM

"There's a loophole where you can sell guns without a background check … 40 percent of guns are sold that way" at gun shows and over the Internet.

Michael Bloomberg on Sunday, July 22nd, 2012 in an interview on "Face the Nation"

http://www.politifac...ent-guns-are-s/

#91 PeaceFrog

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 07:25 PM

Monday (12/18) Police: Upstate NY man helped wife commit suicide

GLENS FALLS, N.Y. — A New York man was charged with manslaughter in his wife's suicide because he showed the despondent woman how to fire a shotgun before leaving her alone in their upstate home to go hunting, authorities said Tuesday.

Kathie Skellie, 59, was found dead from a self-inflicted gunshot wound Saturday morning at the home she shared with her husband in Glens Falls, 45 miles north of Albany, said Glens Falls Detective Sgt. Peter Casertino.

Willard Skellie, 69, confessed to buying the 12-gauge shotgun, teaching his wife how to use it and leaving it loaded while he went hunting, authorities said. He told police she was despondent because of mental health problems, Casertino said.

Skellie was questioned and charged Sunday with second-degree manslaughter after failing a lie-detector test, police said. Under a subsection of state law, the charge can be brought if a person "intentionally causes or aids another person to commit suicide."

Warren County District Attorney Kate Hogan told The Post-Star of Glens Falls, which first reported the arrest, that the circumstances fit the second-degree manslaughter subsection for aiding suicide.

Skellie was being held Tuesday in Warren County Jail on $100,000 bail. It couldn't be determined if he had a lawyer.

Police said Skellie reported finding her dead in her bedroom when he arrived home Saturday after going hunting for the second day in a row. He told police she typically stayed in her room for long periods, Casertino said.

"It wasn't unusual for her to be in a room for a couple of days," he said.

Casertino said police began questioning him after inconsistencies arose in his story and because evidence found in the bedroom was out of place.

Skellie was also charged with tampering with physical evidence for allegedly moving the gun used in the shooting and removing a note his wife had written that detailed how to use the gun, based on his instructions, authorities said.

#92 PeaceFrog

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 08:08 PM

Posted Image

#93 PeaceFrog

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 08:20 PM

Sunday (12/16) Man with assault rifle shot dead by police after Alabama triple murder

#94 PeaceFrog

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 08:33 PM

not a shooting, but still pretty deranged:

Tuesday (12/18) Utah 6th grader takes gun to school, says parents encouraged him

#95 Joker

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 11:00 PM

Posted Image

Please tell me this isn't real

#96 PeaceFrog

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 11:15 PM

Please tell me this isn't real


Tuesday (12/18) Man shot at St. Pete pizza joint had been complaining about slow service


ST. PETERSBURG — Florida's controversial "stand your ground" law has been cited in hundreds of cases. People have used it to justify shooting, stabbing, killing and maiming would-be intruders, romantic competitors and rival gang members.

And on Sunday, at a pizza joint in St. Petersburg, a man tried to use it as justification for shooting another customer who was yelling at workers because he wasn't getting his order fast enough.

Police said the incident unfolded about 4 p.m. inside the Little Caesars, 3463 Fourth St. N, after Randall White, 49, got mad about his service.

Another man in line, Michael Jock, 52, of St. Petersburg admonished White.

That "prompted them to exchange words and it became a shoving match," said police spokesman Mike Puetz.

White raised a fist. Jock, a concealed-weapons permit holder, pulled out a .38 Taurus Ultralight Special Revolver.

He fired one round, hitting White in the lower torso. The men grappled and the gun fired again, hitting White in roughly the same spot, police said.

One bullet lodged in a wall in the restaurant, which was occupied by at least two other people.

After the shooting, both men went outside and waited for police. Jock told officers the shooting was justified under "stand your ground," Puetz said.

"He felt he was in his rights," Puetz said. "He brought it up specifically and cited it to the officer."

He told officers he feared for his life. He mentioned that he thought White had an object in his hand, then backed off that when officers pressed him. Florida's "stand your ground law" says people are not required to retreat before using deadly force.

"We determined it did not reach a level where deadly force was required," Puetz said.

Police arrested Jock on charges of aggravated battery with a weapon and shooting within a building. He was released from jail on $20,000 bail.

Jock told the Tampa Bay Times he was meeting with a lawyer today, but declined further comment.

White was treated at Bayfront Medical Center and released. Reached by phone Monday night, he said he felt lucky to be alive. He was also angry.

"There are arguments every day, but how many people pull out a gun? When you pull a gun out and shoot somebody, your life better be in danger," White said. "He was in my face and I pushed him. His life was not being threatened."

White said he got mad because his thin-crust vegetable pie was taking longer than the 10 minutes he was promised.

"Twenty minutes later, I'm like, 'Where's my pizza?' " White said.

White, who admitted he was tired and agitated, started talking about the service. That's when he said Jock "started chewing me out."

White said the gun came out quickly. A shot rang out. The two men wrestled for the gun before the second shot was fired.

White said he still has a bullet fragment in his back.

"I got lucky," he said. "To me, that stand your ground rule … people are twisting it. He's twisting it. I walked in to get a pizza and I got shot … I'm hoping the law prevails. We'll see."

#97 PeaceFrog

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 12:49 AM

Tuesday (12/18) Two Injured In Shooting On City’s Northeast Side

That just happened 46 minutes ago.

#98 PeaceFrog

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 12:52 AM

Tuesday (12/18) Two people shot on Eastside; one in critical condition

this was about an hour ago, same city (Indianapolis, IN)

#99 TakeAStepBack

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 12:57 AM

YOu need to step your game up. There are so many tragedies you're missing out on in this agenda push. :jimy:

#100 PeaceFrog

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 01:03 AM

I bet if these were all cases of people "abusing" food stamps, you'd be all up in arms.