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Right to bear arms?


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#101 MeOmYo

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 05:10 PM

You guys figure it out.

I come up with an idea, and everyone of you shit on it.

Good luck.


Now now, that is no way to be.

Just because some don't agree with the idea doesn't mean its not worth the talk.

Being someone that hunts and has owned guns for quite a while, I can say that we are already paying a heafty price. the cost of guns and ammo have increased significantly in just the past few years. Although I understand where you are coming from, I do not think taxing the responsible people is the answer.

#102 JBetty

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 05:11 PM

Thank you. I feel like it is me against everyone here. Because I had a dumb idea. I changed the plan as the what ifs came in to account for each.

But no, lets go make bullets because then I can have all the bullets I want.



I don't think it's a dumb idea at all.
It's not a perfect do-all end-all solution to the problem, but then again I don't believe there is such a thing to begin with.
If this idea saves even one life, would it be worth it? :dunno:

#103 MeOmYo

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 05:12 PM

a step would be to implement firearm safety into the education system. Banning and/or hiding this stuff from the youth is not the answer, education is

#104 JBetty

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 05:14 PM

a step would be to implement firearm safety into the education system. Banning and/or hiding this stuff from the youth is not the answer, education is



Along the lines of sex education?

#105 concert andy

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 05:14 PM

Now now, that is no way to be.

Just because some don't agree with the idea doesn't mean its not worth the talk.

Being someone that hunts and has owned guns for quite a while, I can say that we are already paying a heafty price. the cost of guns and ammo have increased significantly in just the past few years. Although I understand where you are coming from, I do not think taxing the responsible people is the answer.



Sorry I get frustrated, because it seemed as though it was me against everyone.

That is fine, taxing may not be the answer. but can we regulate the bullets. Like include tracking numbers on each bullet?

Or track people who buy too much ammo? Like question them why they need so much ammo?

#106 concert andy

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 05:15 PM

Along the lines of sex education?


Both will be just as controversial.

#107 Joker

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 05:16 PM

I can tell you did not read the entire thread, because I backed away from taxing the bullets. It is just a nice idea that bullets would be to costly for people to be wasting them on stupid crimes.

In the end I was for regulating the bullets, but TASB shit on that by saying people will just make their own bullets.

Ok then, Raising the cost regulating the bullets isn't going to stop a criminal from doing what he intends to do, he'll simply steal to pay for the ammo he needs or he'll make it himself. All raising the cost regulating ammo would do is penalize the majority of gun owners.

#108 JBetty

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 05:18 PM

Sorry I get frustrated, because it seemed as though it was me against everyone.




It was.
But that is the nature of message boards.
Come up with an idea and lots of people will jump on board to poke holes in your theory.
At least you came up with an idea that has some merit.
Which is more than anyone else (myself included) has done.

#109 concert andy

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 05:20 PM

Ok then, Raising the cost regulating the bullets isn't going to stop a criminal from doing what he intends to do, he'll simply steal to pay for the ammo he needs or he'll make it himself. All raising the cost regulating ammo would do is penalize the majority of gun owners.


Then what should we do about all the gun violence in this country without limiting someone liberty?

Sorry someone has to be penalized for all these shootings.

When I was on a team growing up, when one person made a mistake we all paid for it with more work, running whatever.

Why can't we apply the same logic here?

Oh because liberty and freedom. OK, lets go a see a movie or school and hope we do not get shot.

#110 concert andy

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 05:21 PM

It was.
But that is the nature of message boards.
Come up with an idea and lots of people will jump on board to poke holes in your theory.
At least you came up with an idea that has some merit.
Which is more than anyone else (myself included) has done.


Thank you again.

:bowl:

#111 Joker

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 05:21 PM

Sorry I get frustrated, because it seemed as though it was me against everyone.

That is fine, taxing may not be the answer. but can we regulate the bullets. Like include tracking numbers on each bullet?

Or track people who buy too much ammo? Like question them why they need so much ammo?

I'd imagine there are probably billions, if not trillions, of rounds used each year. I don't think it's be possible to individually number them.

#112 JBetty

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 05:24 PM

Thank you again.

:bowl:



You're welcome.
Keep up the good work. :smile:

#113 MeOmYo

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 05:25 PM

There has been talk in the past of signaturizing firing pins on firearms. This way spent casings could easily be tied to the firearm.

#114 PeaceFrog

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 05:27 PM

This.

Waiting to see if the response will be something like, "how you gonna take on the US Government when it has tanks and helicopters and stuff?"


and unmanned drones. What are your guns going to do about them?

#115 PeaceFrog

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 05:29 PM

More Entitlement spending is NOT the answer.


:lol: I see what you did there

#116 Tim the Beek

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 05:30 PM

You guys figure it out.

I come up with an idea, and everyone of you shit on it.

Good luck.


FWIW, this makes me less willing to continue this discussion.

It's not shitting on something to disagree with or question it.

#117 Joker

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 05:30 PM

Then what should we do about all the gun violence in this country without limiting someone liberty?

Sorry someone has to be penalized for all these shootings.

When I was on a team growing up, when one person made a mistake we all paid for it with more work, running whatever.

Why can't we apply the same logic here?

Oh because liberty and freedom. OK, lets go a see a movie or school and hope we do not get shot.

As has been said, it's a social issue. Until people are cured from whatever causes them to want to shoot and kill another human being this type of shit is going to continue.

Really? Someone has to be penalized? That sounds more like vengeance than a solution. So who should we stone?

Are you suggesting we start penalizing groups of people for the actions of an individual?

#118 TakeAStepBack

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 05:31 PM

It was.
But that is the nature of message boards.
Come up with an idea and lots of people will jump on board to poke holes in your theory.
At least you came up with an idea that has some merit.
Which is more than anyone else (myself included) has done.


No, it wasn't. No one that I saw was against Andy. We were discussing the merits of his idea and how it would work to deter crazy fuckers from shooting people based on ammo limitations/regulations. I guess we all should have just agreed it is a great idea.

Posted Image

#119 PeaceFrog

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 05:32 PM

Why? It won't solve anything


what did voting for Jill Stein solve? :lol:

#120 JBetty

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 05:33 PM

As has been said, it's a social issue. Until people are cured from whatever causes them to want to shoot and kill another human being this type of shit is going to continue.



People have been wanting to shoot and kill other human beings since guns were invented.
Before that, they wanted to beat, stab, burn and use any means possible to kill other human beings.
There will never be a cure.
Just easier and quicker ways to do it.

#121 PeaceFrog

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 05:34 PM

You guys figure it out.

I come up with an idea, and everyone of you shit on it.

Good luck.


this is a critical point.

gun advocates do nothing but criticize our "ignorance of guns" and stupidity and lack of knowledge of the constitution.

well fine. You are all the experts. Then help instead of criticize like fools. Any fool can criticize, and most do.

#122 JBetty

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 05:34 PM

No, it wasn't. No one that I saw was against Andy. We were discussing the merits of his idea and how it would work to deter crazy fuckers from shooting people based on ammo limitations/regulations. I guess we all should have just agreed it is a great idea.





Perception is reality.

#123 PeaceFrog

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 05:37 PM

obstructionist will obstruct.

#124 MeOmYo

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 05:38 PM

obstructionist will obstruct.


what did voting for Jill Stein solve? :lol:


:lmao:

#125 TakeAStepBack

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 05:39 PM

Perception is reality.


If that were true, the 94 assualt weapon ban would have actually reduced gun related crimes and mass shootings. As it turned out, that wasn't the case. Anyway, none of what any of us have to say on the matter will change what is to come. We don't make the laws, we wont get to sit at the discussion table. We will get what the rulers hand down to us.

#126 Joker

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 05:40 PM

People have been wanting to shoot and kill other human beings since guns were invented.
Before that, they wanted to beat, stab, burn and use any means possible to kill other human beings.
There will never be a cure.
Just easier and quicker ways to do it.

Agreed. I think we should be allowed to protect ourselves from those people.

#127 JBetty

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 05:42 PM

If that were true, the 94 assualt weapon ban would have actually reduced gun related crimes and mass shootings.



Not what I was referring to.
Your perception of the situation is what your reality is.
Andy's perception is his reality.
Two totally different realitys within the same situation.

#128 concert andy

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 05:42 PM

FWIW, this makes me less willing to continue this discussion.

It's not shitting on something to disagree with or question it.


Really? I stated I was frustrated later, but I guess that does not matter.

#129 JBetty

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 05:44 PM

Agreed. I think we should be allowed to protect ourselves from those people.



So you think we should go back to the wild, wild west days where everyone was armed and the fastest draw won?

#130 concert andy

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 05:45 PM

I'd imagine there are probably billions, if not trillions, of rounds used each year. I don't think it's be possible to individually number them.



I do. Once a bullet has been fired, that number can be reused.


And we sell about 4 billion dollars worth of ammo a year. Guess you missed that posted article (from May 2012).

So I assume by those numbers and each bullet being less than 50 cents on average that 2 billion rounds are fired (or replaced).

#131 Tim the Beek

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 05:45 PM

Really? I stated I was frustrated later, but I guess that does not matter.


Started writing, had to step away. Came back, posted. I guess you had written of your frustration in the interim...

#132 concert andy

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 05:46 PM

There has been talk in the past of signaturizing firing pins on firearms. This way spent casings could easily be tied to the firearm.


I am ok with this. Something to tie the gun owner to the ammo.

Would make for a lot less random killings if you could tie people to the gun, with out the gun.

#133 concert andy

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 05:46 PM

Started writing, had to step away. Came back, posted. I guess you had written of your frustration in the interim...


Cool. I do enjoy your thoughtful commentary.

#134 Tim the Beek

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 05:47 PM

Back atcha...even if we don't often agree. :)

#135 concert andy

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 05:52 PM

As has been said, it's a social issue. Until people are cured from whatever causes them to want to shoot and kill another human being this type of shit is going to continue.

Really? Someone has to be penalized? That sounds more like vengeance than a solution. So who should we stone?

Are you suggesting we start penalizing groups of people for the actions of an individual?


Yeah, it sounds bad. I agree. But if you do not own a gun, you are not included in the overall problem. If you do, by the transitive power of Huckabee you are part of the problem.

It is a lot more than a social issue when people get shot everyday. Not just a school full of children, and just like the drones that fire you up, the innocent of our country that are shot by people with or without mental issues is what fires me up.

#136 Joker

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 05:53 PM

So you think we should go back to the wild, wild west days where everyone was armed and the fastest draw won?

Yes, that is exactly what I think :fritos:

#137 PeaceFrog

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 05:54 PM

with nanotechnology in the near future, it will be quite easy to microchip every gun and bullet.

the time to think about legislation is now.

#138 concert andy

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 05:54 PM

No, it wasn't. No one that I saw was against Andy. We were discussing the merits of his idea and how it would work to deter crazy fuckers from shooting people based on ammo limitations/regulations. I guess we all should have just agreed it is a great idea.

Posted Image


But you do agree everyone was poking holes in my idea, which implies you disagree, which implies wiping your but with the idea.

:lol:

#139 PeaceFrog

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 05:55 PM

Huckabee blames the CT shooting on gay marriage :rolleyes:

#140 MeOmYo

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 05:55 PM

that is one handsome sonofabitch!

#141 concert andy

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 05:57 PM

If that were true, the 94 assualt weapon ban would have actually reduced gun related crimes and mass shootings. As it turned out, that wasn't the case. Anyway, none of what any of us have to say on the matter will change what is to come. We don't make the laws, we wont get to sit at the discussion table. We will get what the rulers hand down to us.


But since the ban was lifted, hasnt there been more mass shootings?

Let us get past mass shooting like Sandy Hook.

What about everyday people who get shot, because of stupidity (accidents), or crimes where people are shot.

Most of these are not mental health issues. Sandy hook probably was, but these mass shootings get the press. People who get shot daily, get a blurb and their family has to deal with the fall out.

Lets think bigger than one simple case.

#142 concert andy

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 05:58 PM

Huckabee blames the CT shooting on gay marriage :rolleyes:


No one remembers Colbert's transitive power of huckabee?

#143 concert andy

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 05:59 PM

Yes, that is exactly what I think :fritos:


I do not want to live in your world.

In cities, where there is a density of population, this could be very bad. Ask people who get shot with stray bullets.

#144 TakeAStepBack

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 05:59 PM

But you do agree everyone was poking holes in my idea, which implies you disagree, which implies wiping your but with the idea.

:lol:


Actually, for where I stood, i was looking for further explanation and detail on how such a policy would deter shooters, or how it may actually work. You may take that as poking holes in the idea, I take it as friendly discussion.

Shitting on your idea would have been people coming in to take pot shots at you and calling the idea outright stupid, ignorant, dumb, etc..

We were discussing the idea civilly and bringing up points of contention. Imagine if every time someone brought up an idea, everyone just agreed and we all went along. We'd have become extinct already.

#145 concert andy

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 06:00 PM

You're welcome.
Keep up the good work. :smile:


I try.

Logic weighs more than emotion for me, usually.

Except when I get frustrated. :fritos:

#146 Tim the Beek

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 06:01 PM

We'd have become extinct already.


Soon

#147 concert andy

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 06:04 PM

Actually, for where I stood, i was looking for further explanation and detail on how such a policy would deter shooters, or how it may actually work. You may take that as poking holes in the idea, I take it as friendly discussion.

Shitting on your idea would have been people coming in to take pot shots at you adn calling the idea outright stupid, ignorant, dumb, etc..

We were discussing the idea civilly and bringing up points of contention. Imagine if every time someone brought up an idea, everyone just agreed adn we all went along. We'd have become extinct already.


Alright I was a little over the top. Come on, you have to see that.

I gave lots of explanation, you just said I jumped the shark which means the idea has run its course with you, and we could not discuss it anymore.

And added, that people would make their own bullets. While yes some would, but the vast majority would probably not. Which then makes my point about those people still relevant.

#148 JBetty

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 06:04 PM

Yes, that is exactly what I think :fritos:

I do not want to live in your world.

In cities, where there is a density of population, this could be very bad. Ask people who get shot with stray bullets.




Me neither, but I do believe I detect a bit of sarcasm coming from Joker.

I was serious about the wild wild west thing, as I see that as the natural outcome of everyone arming themselves to the teeth to protect themselves.
You disagree, Joker?

#149 TakeAStepBack

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 06:11 PM

But since the ban was lifted, hasnt there been more mass shootings?

Let us get past mass shooting like Sandy Hook.

What about everyday people who get shot, because of stupidity (accidents), or crimes where people are shot.

Most of these are not mental health issues. Sandy hook probably was, but these mass shootings get the press. People who get shot daily, get a blurb and their family has to deal with the fall out.

Lets think bigger than one simple case.


If it were up to me, every single last gun (fighter plane, attack chopper, drone, etc), way to make them and schematic would be destroyed on the earth. Not some here, or some there, or one over here. ALL of them. Since this idea is proposterous, from my point of view, there is very little we can do to stop all firearm related violence. I do not like the idea of an unarmed population, while the government still has firepower. In fact, this idea frightens me. Because history is an intellectual weapon, and from what I see this idea leads to pure disaster.

So what can we do? Well, some regulations (yes, even for a guy who shivers at the idea) are important. I am not opposed to background checks on all firearm purchases. But most of all, I think we as a society need to address/investigate our cultural problems that may lead to such acts of violence. Such as this pop a pill culture where everything is solved through medication, meanwhile the meds do crazy shit to the brain or body....as one example. Education, mental health, etc...etc..the food we eat, the way we live. It's not a one avenue cure, or a one avenue cause....

Other than that, i think more people should be trained and armed. On the overall, gun related crimes have decreased over the years in spite of our being the biggest arms purchasing country in the world. There are going to be shootings. Police shootings, violent offender shootings, etc...that's one part of the problem with the statistics. they do not break it down so that we know where violent offenders stand vs. defense initation, or accidents, or suicides, or what have you.

To shorten my point, i don't think it is something we will ever fully cure. And steps to try usually result in unseen consequences.

#150 Joker

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 06:19 PM

Me neither, but I do believe I detect a bit of sarcasm coming from Joker.

I was serious about the wild wild west thing, as I see that as the natural outcome of everyone arming themselves to the teeth to protect themselves.
You disagree, Joker?

Yes. I can't foresee a day (at least not in the near future) when "everyone" is arming themselves to the teeth. I think people are, for the most part, content with the criminal justice system we have in place now.