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Is this where I turn into a republican?


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#51 PeaceFrog

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 12:22 AM

A detail Kate told me that I do not think she included. The lady also had a Kate Spade bag.

I think the point was in this case it looked pretty fishy.


maybe it was a knock-off

#52 Tabbooma

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 12:25 AM

:)

While there will always be people who will cheat the system at any level, unemployment benefits, and other government assistance keep millions of honest Americans at the poverty level afloat. Without them, these people would not be able to survive. Working 80 or 90 hours a week at 2 McDonald's type jobs will not support a family of four.

15.1% of Americans live in poverty, 46.2 million. Those people need help. Even if a million are cheating the system, which is doubtful, I am happy to help the other 45 million

I am proud to pay my taxes and support those in need.....



#53 PeaceFrog

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 12:26 AM

or maybe even second-hand... I've gotten some pretty cool things from Goodwill for cheap.

#54 Java Time

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 12:28 AM

yes my socialist/leftist friends...all these folks are wearing expensive hand me downs, their iPhones are hand me downs, their cars are hand me downs, their apartnments and/or homes are hand me downs :rolleyes:


Butterqueen I hear ya,...and agree with ya 100%


fox news is 24/7...go take a gander and see if you like...go on...take 'er for a spin...er no spin I mean! :smile:

#55 TakeAStepBack

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 12:30 AM

:rolling:

#56 little frog

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 12:37 AM

i might have to talk slower to you if you start watching fox ;)

http://news.yahoo.co...-034622242.html

#57 PieDoh

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 01:02 AM

go with your gut. and listen to more mark levin and neal boortz..

#58 concert andy

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 01:31 AM

maybe it was a knock-off


May be...

It was a gift. Someone in terrible Dire certainly needs a 300 dollar hand bag. :jimy:


But she also had a very expensive baby stroller ($800?), this was mentioned in the original post.

She was also wearing a Burberry hat.

#59 PeaceFrog

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 01:36 AM

well the bottom line is that you don't have any proof. no real numbers or statistics. It's all just anectodal. It isn't real evidence... Who are all "these people" with expensive things and are on public assistance. I'd like to see some proof... maybe pictures or records.

Anyone can just "spout off bullshit" as joke loves to say.

#60 Java Time

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 01:45 AM

well the bottom line is that you don't have any proof. no real numbers or statistics. It's all just anectodal. It isn't real evidence... Who are all "these people" with expensive things and are on public assistance. I'd like to see some proof... maybe pictures or records.

Anyone can just "spout off bullshit" as joke loves to say.


What...like you're doing now...you have no proof to the contrary...where's your proof to the contrary ye who spouts bullshit? :joker:

:funny1:


#61 PeaceFrog

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 01:47 AM

reminds me of the church of the flying spaghetti monster

"I just know there's poor people working the system... I just KNOW IT"

#62 Deadshow Dan

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 02:09 AM

In fiscal 2011, food stamps took 2% of the budget.

Do you really think the majority of that was fraud? Let's say 5% was , which is way way high

That's .1% of the budget.

Now how much fraud is there in military spending?

How much in private business? In privatised?

If your interest is the budget you're looking a the wrong place if you're looking at food stamps

#63 Karen

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 02:40 AM

I took a 65% paycut once I hit my 6 month deadline of unemployment (insurance).

I would rather work for meager money** than get it for doing nuthin. (so to speak :moose:)

**with excellent and somewhat prompt growth potential.


So, if I turn down a job that is a 65% paycut and continue to collect unemployment on an extension in order to try and find a job closer to the target salary I am seeking, am I 'getting it for doing nuthin?'

Just curious what you think of that, I am not being sarcastic.

#64 china cat

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 02:40 AM

In fiscal 2011, food stamps took 2% of the budget.

Do you really think the majority of that was fraud? Let's say 5% was , which is way way high

That's .1% of the budget.

Now how much fraud is there in military spending?

How much in private business? In privatised?

If your interest is the budget you're looking a the wrong place if you're looking at food stamps


Yep

get pissed about Bechtel, Halliburton, Lockheed Martin...

#65 Arglebargle

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 02:47 AM

http://money.cnn.com...lysis/index.htm

Food stamps offer best stimulus - study

Moody's study suggests extending unemployment benefits, increasing food stamps fastest ways to stimulate economy.

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- As Congress and the White House consider a $150 billion stimulus package that includes tax rebates and tax incentives for business, a report released Tuesday suggests that other methods would do a better job of infusing money into the flagging economy and doing it fast.
The industry research firm Moody's Economy.com tracked the potential impact of each stimulus dollar, looking at tax rebates, tax incentives for business, food stamps and expanding unemployment benefits.
The report found that "some provide a lot of bang for the buck to the economy. Others ... don't," said economist Mark Zandi.
In findings echoed by other economists and studies, he said the study shows the fastest way to infuse money into the economy is through expanding the food-stamp program. For every dollar spent on that program $1.73 is generated throughout the economy, he said.

#66 Java Time

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 02:58 AM

So, if I turn down a job that is a 65% paycut and continue to collect unemployment on an extension in order to try and find a job closer to the target salary I am seeking, am I 'getting it for doing nuthin?'

Just curious what you think of that, I am not being sarcastic.


Yes it would be something for nothing...get the 35% job and still receive public assistance....unless yer talkin from a million to 350k...then cry yourself asleep cuz ya got it tough.

:smile:

#67 Karen

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 03:03 AM

Yes it would be something for nothing...get the 35% job and still receive public assistance....unless yer talkin from a million to 350k...then cry yourself asleep cuz ya got it tough.

:smile:


Not sure what you mean when you say 'get the 35% job and still receive public assistance"?

#68 china cat

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 03:05 AM

http://money.cnn.com...lysis/index.htm

Food stamps offer best stimulus - study

Moody's study suggests extending unemployment benefits, increasing food stamps fastest ways to stimulate economy.

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- As Congress and the White House consider a $150 billion stimulus package that includes tax rebates and tax incentives for business, a report released Tuesday suggests that other methods would do a better job of infusing money into the flagging economy and doing it fast.
The industry research firm Moody's Economy.com tracked the potential impact of each stimulus dollar, looking at tax rebates, tax incentives for business, food stamps and expanding unemployment benefits.
The report found that "some provide a lot of bang for the buck to the economy. Others ... don't," said economist Mark Zandi.
In findings echoed by other economists and studies, he said the study shows the fastest way to infuse money into the economy is through expanding the food-stamp program. For every dollar spent on that program $1.73 is generated throughout the economy, he said.


not sure 'bout this.

"If someone who is literally living paycheck to paycheck gets an extra dollar, it's very likely that they will spend that dollar immediately on whatever they need - groceries, to pay the telephone bill, to pay the electric bill," he said. Tracking that single dollar spent through the economic chain shows what economists call the ripple effect, Zandi said. For example, that dollar spent at the grocery store in turn helps to pay the salaries of the grocery clerks, pays the truckers who haul the food and produce cross-country, and finally goes to the farmer who grows the crops."

couldn't it then also be said: let me keep more of my money (instead of taking my money via taxes and giving it to those collecting, so they can spend it),, Anyway, let me keep it, I'll spend it and the more I spend the more jobs I create, the more jobs I create the more opportunity for those currently in need to find work?

I'm not being sarcastic, just trying to follow the logic here.

#69 Arglebargle

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 03:13 AM

Depends on whether you spend it or horde it. Demand creates jobs, if tax breaks for the wealthy did such a great job of boosting the economy, the Bush recession would have never happened.

#70 PeaceFrog

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 03:29 AM

not sure 'bout this.

"If someone who is literally living paycheck to paycheck gets an extra dollar, it's very likely that they will spend that dollar immediately on whatever they need - groceries, to pay the telephone bill, to pay the electric bill," he said. Tracking that single dollar spent through the economic chain shows what economists call the ripple effect, Zandi said. For example, that dollar spent at the grocery store in turn helps to pay the salaries of the grocery clerks, pays the truckers who haul the food and produce cross-country, and finally goes to the farmer who grows the crops."

couldn't it then also be said: let me keep more of my money (instead of taking my money via taxes and giving it to those collecting, so they can spend it),, Anyway, let me keep it, I'll spend it and the more I spend the more jobs I create, the more jobs I create the more opportunity for those currently in need to find work?

I'm not being sarcastic, just trying to follow the logic here.


people who don't really need the money don't spend it right away. They either save it, or they hide it away in foreign bank accounts.

people who live hand-to-mouth spend their money on basic necessities of life and it has a multiplier effect -- the money goes directly back into the economy.

consumers are the true job creators, not producers. In reality it's a little bit of both since suppliers create some demand through marketing, but essentially -- your supply is worthless if you have no demand.

#71 Rayzeeday

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 04:36 AM

If the government gives you a break not to suuport folks unlucky enough to need it to live, do you think for a minute he'll not find something else for it within days, you truly do live in halcyon days! The government stirs the pot to turn folks against those in need and a lot of folk fall right into file formation but let one of those folks be jobless, or disabled and see how quick they change their tune. Meanwhile the indians circle the wagons at night!

#72 gregoir

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 05:03 AM

I have a Master's degree and earn 400 bucks a week doing a job requiring a High School Diploma. Life isn't always fair but I get up each day and go to work. And I find nothing wrong with public assistance depending on people's situations, I also find nothing wrong with a debate over the validity of such assistance. It is out money that goes into the system just like it is out money that gets thrown away on an over blown military. Wow I need to stop hanging out with TASB

#73 capt_morgan

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 05:42 AM

i sure do wish people would spend this much energy bitching about the military...

i guess its just an easier mark to berate the poor and disenfranchised under the vail of entitled freeloaders

seems like some people have their priorities askew

#74 In A Silent Way

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 05:56 AM

Oh Jerry please rise up so the bigots will go away :pimp:


:rolling:

#75 hoagie

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 07:33 AM

i sure do wish people would spend this much energy bitching about the military...

i guess its just an easier mark to berate the poor and disenfranchised under the vail of entitled freeloaders

seems like some people have their priorities askew


Agreed.

#76 Rayzeeday

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 09:59 AM

I don't know! I always grew up wanting to be poor,have ptsd and my all time favorite as of now, getting rear ended while parked this summer damaging my back where I cannot even walk somedays. Well at least I live a life fullfilled! :tease:

#77 deadheadskier

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 10:32 AM

"

couldn't it then also be said: let me keep more of my money (instead of taking my money via taxes and giving it to those collecting, so they can spend it),, Anyway, let me keep it, I'll spend it and the more I spend the more jobs I create, the more jobs I create the more opportunity for those currently in need to find work?


Is that a quote from Mitt Romney on the campaign trail?


:rolling:


Was that your message when you took a little to trip to Wall Street a while back?

;)

#78 hoagie

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 11:25 AM

Butterqueen, u sound a little jealous and too focused on others. Worry about yourself, and not who is paying with food stamps or whatever...

#79 TakeAStepBack

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 12:18 PM

Perhaps she is worrying about herself under the realization that the do-gooders are taking money from her, that she could use, to give to someone else. Then claim it "stimulates the economy." which is horseshit. Wealth redistribution does not stimulate the economy. No more than if that extra money was left in the hands of the person who rightfully earned it. I don't call that jealously at all. I call it understanding you're being fucked over.

#80 gregoir

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 12:25 PM

I think people should also remember you never know what will happen to you in life. you could need certain services someday. I never thought I would be in my current situation. If I didn't have the option of living with my parents, I would not be able to survive on my current salary.

#81 Tabbooma

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 12:25 PM

Do-gooders taking money from her? What is your definition of wealth distribution? That term sure was tossed around allot by the repubs in this last election... Please enlighten Tabbooma and he shall respond in kind. ;)

Perhaps she is worrying about herself under the realization that the do-gooders are taking money from her, that she could use, to give to someone else. Then claim it "stimulates the economy." which is horseshit. Wealth redistribution does not stimulate the economy. No more than if that extra money was left in the hands of the person who rightfully earned it. I don't call that jealously at all. I call it understanding you're being fucked over.



#82 TakeAStepBack

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 12:30 PM

Wealth redistribution:

It is the transfer of income, property or wealth from one individual to another through a state mechanism like taxes, or monetary policies.

Being that taxation is compulsory, I would consider that taking. Or theft by force.

#83 Tabbooma

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 12:59 PM

Ahhh... REdistribution.. So the old Robin hood taking from the rich to pay the poor, therefore cutting taxes on the middle class and raising on the upper say 2% is a bad thing, people spending money does not stimulate the economy? Tabbooma does not believe in 'hand outs" he does believes in helping someone down on their luck, yes some take advantage but to cast a broad net saying they are all freeloaders is quite insulting, Tabbooma has lived and helped these "freeloaders" so he must be a do-gooder too... Tabbooma thinks people who use that term "freeloaders" should go and volunteer and meet some of these freeloaders.. Hopefully they would learn something about that freeloader in lieu of standing afar and judging that person. Well Tabbooma has to go to work now so he can contribute his fair tax share, well actually not fair since Tabbooma does pay a pretty high percentage of taxes compared to some others in the country with greater means than Tabbooma. Tabbooma has spoken ;)

Wealth redistribution:

It is the transfer of income, property or wealth from one individual to another through a state mechanism like taxes, or monetary policies.

Being that taxation is compulsory, I would consider that taking. Or theft by force.



#84 Slave Self Promoted

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 01:02 PM

i was awoken to what's wrong with society last week, while working in the bowels of poverty. they're not the have-nots. they're the what-have-you-got-to-give-me's. not all of them, but enough of them to have my brain explode and to write a letter of apology to my in-laws and singing it "a very apologetic former vermont socialist." my FIL welcomed me to the fold, and my MIL called right away to congratulate me for growing up. :lol:

#85 Spidergawd

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 01:14 PM

Ahhh... REdistribution.. So the old Robin hood taking from the rich to pay the poor, therefore cutting taxes on the middle class and raising on the upper say 2% is a bad thing, people spending money does not stimulate the economy? Tabbooma does not believe in 'hand outs" he does believes in helping someone down on their luck, yes some take advantage but to cast a broad net saying they are all freeloaders is quite insulting, Tabbooma has lived and helped these "freeloaders" so he must be a do-gooder too... Tabbooma thinks people who use that term "freeloaders" should go and volunteer and meet some of these freeloaders.. Hopefully they would learn something about that freeloader in lieu of standing afar and judging that person. Well Tabbooma has to go to work now so he can contribute his fair tax share, well actually not fair since Tabbooma does pay a pretty high percentage of taxes compared to some others in the country with greater means than Tabbooma. Tabbooma has spoken ;)


:: slow claps ::

#86 concert andy

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 01:27 PM

Wow did this thread go off track...

Simple commentary on frequent visits to the grocery store, in a bad neighborhood.

#87 hoagie

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 01:38 PM

Perhaps she is worrying about herself under the realization that the do-gooders are taking money from her, that she could use, to give to someone else. Then claim it "stimulates the economy." which is horseshit. Wealth redistribution does not stimulate the economy. No more than if that extra money was left in the hands of the person who rightfully earned it. I don't call that jealously at all. I call it understanding you're being fucked over.


Perhaps, or perhaps this is a case of "grass is greener" frustration because obviously she is upset by seeing well-dressed people using food stamps, while she is poorly dressed and paying cash? The well-dressed person has not done anything wrong here.

#88 hoagie

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 01:44 PM

Also, i am currently drawing EBT benefits so i can eat, as te only job i have been able to find has me up at 2am every morning, yet it wont pay all my expenses at this time. Thank God i have this bit of help right now, its been a very tough year for me financially.

PS i am currently driving a silver Cadillac DeVille (grandpas hand me down) and have a North Face jacket, burberry scarf, and nice clothes (all gifts). Dont judge people.

#89 TakeAStepBack

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 01:47 PM

Ahhh... REdistribution.. So the old Robin hood taking from the rich to pay the poor, therefore cutting taxes on the middle class and raising on the upper say 2% is a bad thing, people spending money does not stimulate the economy? Tabbooma does not believe in 'hand outs" he does believes in helping someone down on their luck, yes some take advantage but to cast a broad net saying they are all freeloaders is quite insulting, Tabbooma has lived and helped these "freeloaders" so he must be a do-gooder too... Tabbooma thinks people who use that term "freeloaders" should go and volunteer and meet some of these freeloaders.. Hopefully they would learn something about that freeloader in lieu of standing afar and judging that person. Well Tabbooma has to go to work now so he can contribute his fair tax share, well actually not fair since Tabbooma does pay a pretty high percentage of taxes compared to some others in the country with greater means than Tabbooma. Tabbooma has spoken ;)


Well, taxing the rich an extra 2% doesm't cut the taxes of middle income earners. It affords more waste for the State. And While Robin Hood may have meant well, theft is still theft. Regardless of any class distinctions doing the stealing or receiving the beneifts. And Tabbooma voluntarily helps those in need. There is a big difference between compulsory and voluntary. Like night and day in difference.

And no one called anyone a "freeloader" in here that I saw.

And while there are some who pay a supposed less than other with more means, there are about half that pay nothing. So I don't see how we can come to any equality in redistribution schemes.

#90 hoagie

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 01:52 PM

Well, taxing the rich an extra 2% doesm't cut the taxes of middle income earners. It affords more waste for the State. And While Robin Hood may have meant well, theft is still theft. Regardless of any class distinctions doing the stealing or receiving the beneifts. And Tabbooma voluntarily helps those in need. There is a big difference between compulsory and voluntary. Like night and day in difference.

And no one called anyone a "freeloader" in here that I saw.

And while there are some who pay a supposed less than other with more means, there are about half that pay nothing. So I don't see how we can come to any equality in redistribution schemes.


First time i have ever seen someone critique Robin Hood stealing from King John...stealing from
An opressor to help those less fortunate is heroic, not criminal, unless you are a tyrant king.

#91 moed_over

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 01:53 PM

Wow did this thread go off track...

Simple commentary on frequent visits to the grocery store, in a bad neighborhood.


Not really, it went beyond simple commentary when these two questions were asked....

I have no issue with helping those in need but how much of America has given up on the whole "working" thing at this point?

I know too many people out of work because they refuse to take a job that is beneath them, yet they stay on 'benefits?'



#92 hoagie

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 01:59 PM

I wasnt exactly insulted, but im baking fucking bagels right now because there are NO JOBS to work, and i had to do something , even tho its way beneath me and i took a HUGE paycut. I am just one guy who is drawing benefits, working a shit job, and driving a pretty nice car and wearing nice clothes. Proof that the above sentiment just reels of prejudice and maybe jealousy. You really really shouldnt be jealous of me. :lol:

#93 TakeAStepBack

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 02:07 PM

First time i have ever seen someone critique Robin Hood stealing from King John...stealing from
An opressor to help those less fortunate is heroic, not criminal, unless you are a tyrant king.


Theft is theft. But thanks for sharing your opinion.

#94 TakeAStepBack

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 02:12 PM

This comes to mind for the thread.

Posted Image

#95 Phishfolk

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 02:18 PM

I think this thread went off track when it became about people who legitimately need and deserve assistance. The fraudulent freeloaders are hurting those people and preventing them from getting the assistance they need. I forget the exact numbers but public housing authorities for the last decade have been running at about 75% of operating budget. One of the largest contributors after that to a phas monetary shortfall is housing fraud (people living in a unit with an income and they are either not on the lease or not reporting their income). That means the housing authority is giving them services that should be given to those in real need.

I'm kind of surprised people haven't taken that into account in this discussion.

#96 china cat

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 02:58 PM

Is that a quote from Mitt Romney on the campaign trail?


:rolling:


Was that your message when you took a little to trip to Wall Street a while back?

;)


Hi DHS

I was simply responding the the argument of the article above me.The argument in that piece seems flawed.

Many people protest for many different reasons - govt corruption and foreign policy was the motivation for my trips, and had little (if anything) to do with the current discussion

I have made it clear in other posts that I support a safety net for citizens. While I do think there is abuse and misuse of taxpayer money, corporate welfare is of far greater concern to me than going after individual citizens who are undeservedly milking the system.

#97 wonka

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 03:00 PM

I think she said, she would rather do something illegal than accept government benefits.


great, she can enter the judicial system and the prison population which will increase the tax payer financial costs tenfold :confused:

#98 Joker

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 03:04 PM

i was awoken to what's wrong with society last week, while working in the bowels of poverty. they're not the have-nots. they're the what-have-you-got-to-give-me's. not all of them, but enough of them to have my brain explode and to write a letter of apology to my in-laws and singing it "a very apologetic former vermont socialist." my FIL welcomed me to the fold, and my MIL called right away to congratulate me for growing up. :lol:

:funny1:

Welcome to the real world

#99 little frog

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 03:06 PM

there would be a lot more jobs if corp execs didn't fire workers so they could take multi-million dollar bonus' (in untaxed income thanks to their buddies in congress) .. taking from the rich (who are in control of salaries and will horde profits if given the smallest loophole) and giving to the poor (who will not be able to make a livable salary even working 60 hours a week) is not stealing imho.

if greed were not the human condition and community were the norm, most of this discussion would not be happening.

also, when you come from a family background where you were able to afford a good private education and mom and dad have tons of connections to make sure you always have the opportunity to get a job with a decent salary, and then you compare your good fortune to those who had nothing but an inner city education to rely on (for generations), you are living with your upper-class head in the sand. CT is full of these folks.

opportunity is not equal in this country. the rich still have the upper hand in all things business and they make sure their offspring move to the top of the food chain.

#100 Phishfolk

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 03:17 PM

CT is also full of folks living paycheck to paycheck working crazy hours to afford their kids an inner city education.