55 replies to this topic

[Uncle Coulro]

Unlike the 1996 shutdowns, this time, active military won't be paid until the budget is passed. We've got over 1.1M active military and about the same number of reserves. Many of them are in, or will shortly be rotated into, harm's way. If the shutdown lasts more than a couple of weeks, many of their families are going to lose houses and not have food. This will result in a huge drop of re-enlistments and a mass exodus.

Meanwhile, our representatives and senators will continue to receive their base salary of $174K plus benefits. It's a sin and it should be a crime.

[DancingBearly]

up with a way to pay those who did show up?

[Mr_Pat]

But at least the piece of shit politicians will

Makes me sick. Military families live pay check to paycheck and make just enough to get by...

[DF]

I am really worried about this country, my home.

[bigtoddy]

We've lost touch with rational reality. This is okay in the new world. And honestly, it just serves to cause more chaos and confusion as events tumble out of control. Let go and enjoy the freefall, things really need a shakeup and we've got a ways to go before we hit bottom and can start the long climb back up. We live in interesting times.

[In A Silent Way]

It will be interesting to see pissed off military personnel marching on the Capitol. That would break the impasse in a hurry.

[capt_morgan]

i guess i should expect my income tax check to be late as well:coffee:

[mug]

I guess this means the 3 wars are over then? No pay/ no play!

[Zero419]

This is for all govt. workers.
It will affect my family.
Let's hope they get this under control today.

[Bone Daddy]

Pick a job where you can shoot people and Karma will come around. I wonder if Bradley Manning is still being paid?

[Uncle Coulro]

This is for all govt. workers.
It will affect my family.
Let's hope they get this under control today.

It affects me, too, but civilians and contractors can quit and find new jobs - military members cannot.

[Deadshow Dan]

This is for all govt. workers.
It will affect my family.
Let's hope they get this under control today.

Yes. All our public workers should get respect and consideration.

As essential personnel, many of them will be working without getting paid. Including, but not even close to limited to, the military.

This is what the freshman Republicans were salivating over doing. Bring the guvmint to it's knees. Douchenozzles!

[Uncle Coulro]

As essential personnel, many of them will be working without getting paid. Including, but not even close to limited to, the military.

However, civilians are free to quit and find new jobs - military members cannot. The situation is markedly different.

[HappieKamper]

Total BS. Time to go awol, no? Can the troops go on strike?

Hey, do I still have to pay my taxes?

This is absolute BS.

[Deadshow Dan]

However, civilians are free to quit and find new jobs - military members cannot. The situation is markedly different.

First of all for many people that would be against the morals.

Say you're the Capital police. Or Secret Service. Or working in the White House. Or working in the EPA monitoring some nasty pollution situation. That would just be wrong. Just because legally you can quit, doesn't make it right.

Secondly, you say that like you can just BANG! find a job. That's just crazy talk these days.

I understand that this would be tough on military families. But there are literally hundreds of thousands of other families in the same boat.

By the way, Republicans have rejected Democratic efforts to have the military paid during a shutdown
http://www.watertown...EWS02/304089959

Democrats also pushed for congress and the president not be paid during a shutdown.
http://www.washingto...PfclC_blog.html
That was also rejected by House Republicans. But that measure would probably not pass constitutional review, as the president being paid is mandated by the constitution, and then there's constitutional no law about Congress pay can go into effect until the next session. So the Congress part is probably constitutional, but couldn't go into effect until then.

[Arglebargle]

Republicans are also cheering over it all:

Today, President Obama will meet with congressional leaders from both parties in an attempt to hammer out a budget deal and prevent the government from shutting down at the end of this week. After initially refusing to commit to attend, House Speaker John Boehner (R-OH) will show up fashionably late to the White House meeting.

Republican leaders have repeatedly said they don

[Phishfolk]

But that measure would probably not pass constitutional review, as the president being paid is mandated by the constitution, and then there's constitutional no law about Congress pay can go into effect until the next session. So the Congress part is probably constitutional, but couldn't go into effect until then.

So why the fuck are Democrats wasting time on something they can't do anyway?

[Deadshow Dan]

So why the fuck are Democrats wasting time on something they can't do anyway?

There is disagreement on it. Personally I understand pushing for such a bill and not understanding that it wouldn't have an effect on the current situation until someone (the White House) pointed it out.

[Sunshower]

i guess i should expect my income tax check to be late as well:coffee:

Yup. I am not expecting to see mine in the mail now. But, I really feel for the military. This whole thing really burns my ass.

[Joker]

Dan, the bigoted hate you constantly spew towards Republicans and the right is absolutely repulsive.

It's a shame that you feel like you must constantly subject the rest of us to it.

[melissa.phish]

And the seasons, they go round and round, the painted ponies go up and down, we're captive on a carousel of time.

[melissa.phish]

Pick a job where you can shoot people and Karma will come around.

Wow. How awful. Yes, it would be better if no one joined the military.

[melissa.phish]

I am really worried about this country, my home.

I am more worried about the country and home my kids will inherit.

[SunshineDrummer]

i guess i should expect my income tax check to be late as well:coffee:

If there's a shutdown no refund checks will be processed, so no.. don't count on seeing it any time soon.

[Joker]

I believe they will still handle the e-filed tax returns.


INTERNAL REVENUE SERVICE: IRS Commissioner Doug Shulman said that if there is a government shutdown, the tax-return due date will remain April 18. Mr. Shulman encouraged taxpayers to e-file returns, because those are processed automatically and refunds would not be delayed. But he said there would be delays in processing paper returns and providing refunds for paper returns.

http://blogs.wsj.com...what-to-expect/

[insolent cur]

that's what i've heard, jack.

if you filed a paper return by mail and there is a gov't shut down, delivery of your check may be delayed.

[MeOmYo]

[mule64]

We would not even be having this debate if the last Congress had done their job and passed a budget.

[Arglebargle]

We would not even be having this debate if the last Congress had done their job and passed a budget.

and defunded planned parenthood

http://www.huffingto...d_n_846463.html

WASHINGTON -- The United States government is on the verge of shutting down over a dispute about subsidized pap smears, according to sources familiar with the budget negotiations.

The White House and Senate Democrats have publicly capitulated to ever-increasing Republican demands for spending cuts, but negotiations over the budget for the remainder of the fiscal year have shifted their focus from money to so-called riders -- provisions that restrict the federal government from spending money on certain projects or entities.

Riders are used by members of Congress to make social policy without going through the regular congressional committee process, or they are used to benefit business interests by specifically blocking the government from spending money to write or enforce certain regulations.

At a late-night White House meeting between the president and key congressional leaders, House Speaker John Boehner (R-Ohio) made clear that his conference would not approve funding for the government if any money were allowed to flow to Planned Parenthood through legislation known as Title X. "This comes down to women's health issues related to Title X," a person in the meeting told HuffPost.

The negotiations are dominated by men: All of the principal negotiators in both parties are male, as are most of the senior staff involved. (House Democrats, led by Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi (Calif.), have largely been left out of key talks.)

House Republicans have been insisting the roadblock to cutting a new budget deal is not just the culture-war riders attached to the spending plan, but a source familiar with a top-level White House meeting earlier Thursday said most of the discussion in fact was about the riders.

Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.), House Speaker John Boehner (R-Ohio) and President Barack Obama met at 1 p.m., and while the discussion started with the numbers, a senior Democratic aide said it soon turned to non-budgetary provisions like defunding Planned Parenthood, Environmental Protection Agency rules -- and then some.

"They started talking about the money, but most of meeting was spent on the riders," a senior Democratic source said. "It wasn't just the top-line stuff. They got down into the smaller details and provisions -- things like mountaintop mining and other rules."

A similar dynamic played out late Thursday night in a meeting that led to no agreement.

Following the midday meeting, Senate Democrats met to chart a course forward and emerged united in opposition to any riders regarding Planned Parenthood -- which does not use federal funds to pay for abortions -- or the EPA.

"The riders that have nothing to do with deficit reduction have sort of taken over Boehner and the Republican Party," Sen. Charles Schumer (D-N.Y.) told reporters. "And unless they back off those riders, it's going to be impossible pretty much to avoid a shutdown. It's that simple."

Sen. Dick Durbin (D-Ill.), the number-two Democrat in the upper chamber, said that Boehner was under pressure on social issues not from the Tea Party, but from senior Republicans. "It's not about reducing the deficit. It's about hitting programs. He's gotta cut programs. And we think still we can reach agreement on the money. But he is under enormous pressure and he says it's not from the Tea Party, it's from the old guard, the Republican guard, that wants to once and for all show that they can force through some of these social issues, like abortion," Durbin told reporters Thursday evening in the Capitol. "The rider list gets longer and longer and non-negotiable."

A GOP aide confirmed Durbin's claim that it's the senior members who are insisting on riders. Polls show that the public is likely to blame the Tea Party for any shutdown, but ironically, most new members are more passionate about spending than social issues. Yet the public is likely to conflate the Tea Party with the culture wars if the government ultimately shuts down due to a dispute over funding for family planning.

"It's mostly a few older members who have seen an opportunity," said the GOP aide. "If you were to ask the freshmen individually, only a few would say this is all about the riders. And even amongst that smaller group, they would be split," with some focused on the EPA and others on restricting funds for health care.

"The true Tea Party guys in our conference are all about spending. That's it. Whatever the final deal is -- even if we got [the National Right to Life Committee] to score it -- we'd lose some guys because it didn't meet the full $100 billion," the aide added.

HuffPost spoke to a number of GOP freshmen, many of whom said they were more committed to funding cuts than policy riders. Although most voted for Republican-sponsored policy riders, some said they were willing to compromise as long as the final figure for cuts was large enough.

"My motivation is reducing the threat of the federal budget deficit, and I am flexible as to what gets cut so long as things get cut sufficient to avoid a federal government bankruptcy," Rep. Mo Brooks (R-Ala.) told HuffPost in March.

House Majority Leader Eric Cantor (R-Va.) said Thursday that the spending-cut difference between the two parties was minuscule. "If you look at the amount of money that we're actually talking about, in terms of the difference of where the White House is and where the House Republicans are, it's equal to maybe one penny of the entire federal budget," Cantor said at a press conference. "So that means that you can't find one penny to cut out of every dollar that the IRS spends? You can't find one penny out of every dollar that the post office spends? That's what we're talking about here."

Pelosi identified the distinction between the newer Tea Party members and the old guard weeks ago. "I had followed the debate very carefully on [the previous spending bill] and the 200 amendments. The newer members are about money, the more senior members are about riders," Pelosi said in mid-March.

A GOP leadership aide, however, told HuffPost that the culture wars were not the sticking point. "Spending, spending, spending -- that's the big issue," said the aide, adding that the GOP wanted more than $33 billion in cuts.

Either way, Democrats have no plans to defund Planned Parenthood at the insistence of House Republicans, Schumer said Thursday night. "We have been against them from the beginning and we're not changing, nor should we. These are fights that have nothing to do with the deficit," he said.

Schumer said earlier Thursday that Democrats were ready to meet Boehner's number, but that Boehner was using money as a distraction so that the public wouldn't realize his members were fighting over cultural issues.

"The only reason the numbers aren't solved is because Speaker Boehner knows that if he did that, then everyone would know that it's the riders, and he doesn't want that out. But if you look at how many hours in the rooms of negotiators that discussing riders, it's predominant," he said. "The Speaker's folks have admitted that we've been fair on the numbers."

"At one point we had an agreement on money, even though Boehner denies it," said Durbin. "It's hard to believe they would shut down the government because they can't get a vote on family planning and Planned Parenthood. Honest to goodness. Is that what the last election was about? I don't think so."

Cecile Richards, the president of Planned Parenthood, told HuffPost that the funding cut would be a threat to women's health. "We have three million come to us every year and two million come through some kind of federal program either for an annual pap or for birth control or for a breast exam or even prenatal care," she noted, adding that the cuts would disproportionately impact rural areas with relatively few medical options. "More than 70 percent of our health centers, more than 800 centers in the country, are located in rural America or communities that are medically underserved communities. That's what's getting lost here."

Conservative activists have long been pushing for cultural riders and, with Republicans back in control the House, have a chance to push them forward. "Why can't you slash Planned Parenthood and NPR and these -- these non-vital programs? Why can't you slash them?" Fox News host Bill O'Reilly demanded of Rep. Charlie Rangel (D-N.Y.) Thursday evening.

"Well, we're talking about health care. We're talking about education," Rangel replied.

"Health care is another matter," O'Reilly said. "That has to be taken very methodically because people's lives are affected. Nobody's life is affected by NPR. Nobody's life is affected by Planned Parenthood. These are options."

[Joker]

A shutdown over spending or abortion? Two sides disagree

Carrie Dann writes:Republicans and Democrats remained locked in a budget impasse Friday morning, with both sides identifying different sticking points that are preventing a deal to fund the federal government.

With just over 12 hours until the deadline to pass a funding measure or shut the government down, Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid pointed to a quarrel over funding women

[Deadshow Dan]

Here's what I see:

Dan, the bigoted hate I constantly spew towards you is absolutely repulsive.

It's a shame that I feel like I must constantly subject the rest of us to it.

[Shake Yer Bones]

Republicans and Democrats are of equal blame. Their egos and pride continue to grow to the point of suffocating the livelihood of those who serve our country. And yet these "leaders" remain on payroll. It's an atrocity and Uncle Coulro is correct. It should be criminal.

[Joker]

Here's what I see:

Originally Posted by Joker
Dan, the bigoted hate I constantly spew towards you is absolutely repulsive.

It's a shame that I feel like I must constantly subject the rest of us to it.

I'd ask you what hate towards you that is, but as we all know, you continue to make accusations towards me that you cant/won't back up so I won't bother.

Apparently this is just another one of those instances where you see something that isn't there

As I made quite clear, it's the bigoted, hate-filled attacks on the right that you subject us all to that I find repulsive. It's probably the reason that yet another thread has been moved over to here. Perhaps if you'd just stop with these types of attacks we could discuss political things over there.

FTR I don't hate you

[Deadshow Dan]

So why the fuck are Democrats wasting time on something they can't do anyway?

There is disagreement on it. Personally I understand pushing for such a bill and not understanding that it wouldn't have an effect on the current situation until someone (the White House) pointed it out.

I've also seen that since that was MEANT to be for raises that it is constitutional. I'm pretty skeptical of that, but the ones with standing in the case would be Congress. So only they'd have standing to sue. Or so that argument goes.

[Deadshow Dan]

I'd ask you what hate towards you that is, but as we all know, you continue to make accusations towards me that you cant/won't back up so I won't bother.

I already pretty much quoted the hate. Basically just changed you to I, etc.

[Joker]

I already pretty much quoted the hate. Basically just changed you to I, etc.

And again, it's NOT YOU, it's the constant attacks and insults directed at the right that I find repulsive. If you want to play the martyr and pretend it's you then there's nothing I can do about it other than repeat that IT'S NOT YOU.

If you'd just stop doing that sort of thing you'd see me stop calling you out for it and then perhaps we'd all be able to have discussions about important political matters on the other board.

[Deadshow Dan]

I'm not pretending it's me. You don't launch the sort of personal attacks at the many other people who express similar opinions.

While you were banned, we were much more able to have civil political discussion on the family board. The fact that you call my opinions about what's going on "bigoted" speaks volumes.

And if it's not really me, then you're basically calling the entire progressive movement bigoted.

[Julius]

Oh Jesus. Can't you boys either just get along or ignore each other for the rest of our sakes? How about we stick to the issues and not make it personal. Please?

[Joker]

I'm not pretending it's me. You don't launch the sort of personal attacks at the many other people who express similar opinions.

While you were banned, we were much more able to have civil political discussion on the family board. The fact that you call my opinions about what's going on "bigoted" speaks volumes.

And if it's not really me, then you're basically calling the entire progressive movement bigoted.

Personal attacks? Again, show me where I personally attack YOU

You constantly insult and attack the right

This is what the freshman Republicans were salivating over doing. Bring the guvmint to it's knees. Douchenozzles!

Do you have anything to back up your claim that te Republicans were salivating over "bringing the government to it's knees? See the Douchenozzle insult?

By the way, Republicans have rejected Democratic efforts to have the military paid during a shutdown
http://www.watertown...EWS02/304089959

From your link

The Republican measure passed the House easily, although Mr. Owens, D-Plattsburgh, and most Democrats voted against it. It cuts $12 billion and funds the Defense Department through the end of the fiscal year, removing the possibility that defense employees and soldiers would be affected by a shutdown.

Seems to me it's saying the Republican measure removes the possibility that the military won't get paid

big

[Joker]

Oh Jesus. Can't you boys either just get along or ignore each other for the rest of our sakes? Hope about we stick to the issues and not make it personal. Please?

I'd love to be able to stick to the issues rather than having to wade through the mud being flung.

How did the house sale go?

[Deadshow Dan]

Oh Jesus. Can't you boys either just get along or ignore each other for the rest of our sakes? Hope about we stick to the issues and not make it personal. Please?

I agree. In fact, I've said I'll agree to a mutual ignore list.

Just ignore me Jack.

[Deadshow Dan]

Jack, I'm not intolerant of people with other opinions. In fact, folks like Ravn have complimenting on keeping things to ideas, to the issues. Others too

[Joker]

Jack, I'm not intolerant of people with other opinions. In fact, folks like Ravn have complimenting on keeping things to ideas, to the issues. Others too

That doesn't make many of your POSTS any less bigoted. One doesn't have to look very far at all to see post after post of yours that attacks and insults.

Again, I understand it can be hard to see how one's own actions and statements can be construed in the wrong way. I didn't see how my own attacks of the Israeli government could be viewed as anti-semitic either. In fact, many people, both Jews and Gentiles know that I'm not an anti-semite. Yet some people, including yourself, deemed them to be anti-semitic and made a point of letting me know whenever I posted something like that.

Maybe if you tried discussing things without the blatant attacks and childlike insults (douchenozzles? really? ) your posts wouldn't appear to be as bigoted as they do? You've got nothing to lose by trying it that way and it would certainly help keep things focused on the topic at hand.

There are more than a few folks here, including myself, who have friends and/or family who are on the right and we shouldn't have to deal with these sorts of things.

You're the only one that can change your posting habits. I hope you'll make the effort, if not for me then perhaps for the VGs who have to deal with the fallout and for everyone else on the board.

I, for one, hope to see a change and I bet others do as well

[Deadshow Dan]

Yet some people, including yourself, deemed them to be anti-semitic

I never said they were.

I said you used anti-semitic rhetoric at a minimum.

The rest of your post is the same ***. kettle. black. as always.

By your definition, and let me make it clear... not my definition, you're a raging bigoted poster.

Again, I'm not saying you're a bigoted poster, I'm saying you're a hypocrite when you say I am. You are the one that goes personal approximately 97.25% of the time

[Joker]

I never said they were.

I said you used anti-semitic rhetoric at a minimum.

The rest of your post is the same ***. kettle. black. as always.

By your definition, and let me make it clear... not my definition, you're a raging bigoted poster.

Again, I'm not saying you're a bigoted poster, I'm saying you're a hypocrite when you say I am. You are the one that goes personal approximately 97.25% of the time

I'm not going personal at all. If you really feel I'm attacking you please point out where I do so and I'll take steps to correct it. I'm on a short leash here and I certainly don't want to jeopardize my chances of remaining here by attacking anyone.

I never said YOU were a bigoted poster. I apologize if it came across that way. I'm saying YOUR POSTS are bigoted (much like my posts were anti-semitic)

I don't think YOU are a bigot.

That's why I suggested you might want to change your posting habits.

Maybe stop with the insults?

Perhaps don't post such biased opinion pieces?

The thing is I have a hard time keeping my mouth shut when I see such a constant barrage of insults directed at an entire group of people be they "ghey," "retards," "douchenozzles," etc....

Again you're the only one that can change how and what you post but please be aware that, while I'd be quite happy not having to do so, I WILL jeopardize my chances of remaining on the board by speaking out against these sorts of things because I believe they're wrong and have no place here or anyplace else.

[Deadshow Dan]

Opinions that are biased. Shocking! :lmao:

[Jim]

Here are my questions:

1st: Why would any of the military be considered to be non-essential in the 1st place?

2nd: Why do we need any truely non-essential workers at all? (I'll give Jimmy Kimmel credit for asking this one )

[Joker]

Opinions that are biased. Shocking! :lmao:

Which is why you might want to try not posting those types of pieces and look for less biased news articles on the topics you wish to discuss rather than the type of clearly slanted opinion pieces you have a habit of posting which, more often than not, contain the type of bigoted, hateful rhetoric that I've been talking about.

The ball is in your court, here's hoping you choose to do what's best for this community rather than what's best for your "team"

[Joker]

Here are my questions:

1st: Why would any of the military be considered to be non-essential in the 1st place?

2nd: Why do we need any truely non-essential workers at all? (I'll give Jimmy Kimmel credit for asking this one )

1. Possibly pencil pushers?

2. Somebody has to do that paperwork

[Deadshow Dan]

Jack, the articles you post are just as biased. They're just biased to your bias.

The ball is in your court, here's hoping you choose to do what's best for this community rather than what's best for your "team"

that's hilarious. YOU asking someone to do what's best for this community.

'tanks for the lulz